Victorian police shoot dead 15 year old in skate park [Oz]

[Black Dagger]

A 15 y.o. kid with a knife says 'i'm going to kill you!' to a trio of cops (after being capsicum sprayed!) ... whilst standing 15m away... and gets shot dead after three or four bullets in the chest. The shots were fired 'seconds' after a 'warning' shot, not much of a 'warning eh'? And they don't even mention the kid coming towards them in the moments before they shot and killed him.

Policeman defends shooting of knife-wielding teen

Mex Cooper, Andrea Petrie and Reko Rennie
December 12, 2008 - 11:37AM
Page 1 of 2 | Single page (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/12/12/1228585078632.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1) A senior policeman has defended the actions of fellow officers who shot dead a teenage boy at a skate park in Melbourne's north last night, claiming the youth said "I'm going to kill you" before he was gunned down.
At a press conference this morning, Assistant Commissioner Tim Cartwright said the officers had been confronted by the knife-wielding 15-year-old at the All Nations Park in Northcote.
Assistant Commissioner Cartwright said the boy had threatened the officers with knives while saying to one officer, "Kill me, I'm going to kill you."
He said the threatened officer backed away into a stairwell. The cornered officer then fired on the boy as did two others as they tried to defend their colleague.
Assistant Commissioner Cartwright said the police officers had done everything they could before opening fire on the youth.
"I don't think the police were trigger happy but that's why we have the coroner," he said.
"The members have reacted as we would want them ... they've ultimately had no choice."
He said it was not known how many shots were fired and the incident was over in a matter of two to three minutes.
The teenager is believed to have stolen two knives from a nearby Kmart after threatening staff.
Assistant Commissioner Cartwright said the youth had earlier tried to take kitchen knives from his home but his family had disarmed him.
He said there was no suggestion the boy suffered from mental illness or was drug-affected at the time. It was not known what had triggered his rage.
"The family's rightly very, very upset," he said.
Police were called to the Northcote Plaza Shopping Centre car park about 9.20pm yesterday after receiving up to four calls from the public about an agitated male carrying knives.
Assistant Commissioner Cartwright said the officers - two female constables, a leading senior constable and a senior constable - had tried to calm the armed teenager who ran a short distance to the skate park before approaching one of the police officers and threatening to kill them.
Seconds after a warning shot was fired into the ground, three of the officers shot at the youth who was standing up to 14 metres away.
"This is a dreadful tragedy,'' Assistant Commissioner Cartwright said.
He defended the actions of the officers and said they had been trained to fire at the central body mass rather than shoot to wound.
"The movies would portray that you can shoot to disarm people. That's not our experience. These are events that are life-threatening. People are extremely nervous, agitated, scared."

Assistant Commissioner Cartwright said he could not say if the use of stun guns would have saved the teenager's life and Victoria Police had not ruled out deploying the weapons in the future.
The lives of the teen's family and the officers had been changed forever by the shooting, he said.
The Homicide Squad and coroner are investigating the death.
Assistant Commissioner Cartwright said the coroner would look at whether the teen had wanted police to kill him.
Search and rescue unit officers were this morning using metal detectors to scour the skate park. The boy's body has reportedly been removed.
Plain-clothes police officers were this morning canvassing members of the public for information, while a broad cordon surrounding the park had been tightened.
At a separate press conference last night, Assistant Commissioner Cartwright described the incident as a "dreadful tragedy".
"Our condolences are certainly with the family," he said, adding that the police officers were "pretty shaken".
"We shouldn't lose members of the community this way,'' he said. "We train our police members. They've foamed him [with capsicum foam], they talked to him and they've done what they can [before he was shot]. It's a dreadful event."
Resident George Markopoulos said he heard five or six shots fired within a few seconds.
"I knew straight away they were gunshots," he said. "I've been living here all my life and it's the first time anything like this has happened."
Another resident, Wally Taleb, described it as "scary, shocking and not something you see every day".
Police have requested surveillance footage from inside the Kmart store, which is believed to show the boy slashing boxes in an agitated state.
This morning a woman, who appeared to be aged in her 50s, laid flowers at the site where the boy died.
Police escorted a man and woman, consoling each other, to the park.
Three young men, who appeared to be in their late teens and who were also comforting each other, arrived at the skate park with a bouquet of flowers and placed them on the skate ramp.
They silently surveyed the area where the teenager was shot.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/12/12/1228585078632.html

[cop an Attitude]

sounds very familiar.

[Bilan]

Oh, fuck.
What a fucking tragedy. :(

[Revy]

Jacksonville police shootings in 2008 (http://www.news4jax.com/news/18048510/detail.html)

As you can see...most of them have nice stories about how the police were supposedly threatened, which I am apt to disbelieve for obvious reasons.

Now this is just in 2008 I have personally heard many such news stories about police shootings almost always against blacks , who were just at the wrong place wrong time fatally killed or seriously wounded by a racist cop.

[S.O.I]

cops are either cowards or cowards pretending to be heroes. thats why you dont mess with em when they come in packs...

[bcbm]

Fucking pigs. Hopefully something positive can come out of this, but I'd be lying if I said I had much hope of that. Maybe some day those fuckers will get what they deserve.

[Comrade B]

Sounds not so much like sadistic police, but extremely poorly trained, panicky, bimbos with guns and badges

[Black Dagger]

Oops:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/shot-tylers-nationalist-myspace-page/2008/12/12/1228585102348.html


Shot Tyler's 'nationalist' MySpace page


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Mex Cooper
December 12, 2008 - 3:34PM


http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/12/12/tyler_narrowweb__300x440,0.jpg Shot dead ... Tyler Cassidy.


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Video: Victoria Police describe the events that led to the fatal shooting.


Policeman defends shooting of knife-wielding teen (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/policeman-defends-shooting-of-knifewielding-teen/2008/12/12/1228585078632.html)
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A 15-year-old gunned down by police last night was a member of a nationalist group called the Southern Cross Soldiers.
Friends have begun posting bereavement messages on Tyler Cassidy's personal MySpace page, in which he names himself as a member of the anti-immigration group.
One message posted close to midnight, when the author may not have known his friend had died, promised revenge for the police shooting that occurred about 9.30pm yesterday.
"Tyler mate, I f------ love you," it reads.
"Don't let them pigs get the better of you.
"You will get through this and we will get them f------ back. Memba revenge is sweet."
Another praised him for going "down fighting like a true champion", while a teenage girl said he would be missed.
"When i found out that ur actully gone i culdnt belive it," she wrote.
"I know you can't read this but i know you will be looking down on all the people who loved and still do love you. aussie pride, gunnaaa be misssed mate."
Three police officers shot and killed Tyler at the All Nations Park in Northcote in Melbourne's north.
He had stolen two knives from a nearby Kmart and was threatening the life of one of the officers when they opened fire, police say.
Tyler's MySpace features a YouTube video celebrating the Cronulla riots along with Australian icons including Qantas, the Sydney Opera House and Tooheys beer.
On it he describes himself as an Australian who loves his country more than anything and has a passion for drinking Bundaberg rum.
Most friends said they would never forget the teenager.
"Gunned down by idiot cops. That's life hey?" one reads.
"You were a mad little bastard but no-one will ever forget you.
"We will keep [Southern Cross Soldiers] going in your name."
Southern Cross Soldiers' MySpace page insists the group is not racist but calls on Australians to "fight for what is truly ours".
"This is about how we walk down the main street in any town, or city in Australia and see more foreign flags than we do Aussie, hear more foreign languages than we do English, in all honesty it's about the fact that we as true Australians are becoming the minority in OUR own country!" it reads.
"And it's time we band together and made a stand."



Looks like the media is gonna play this angle to detract from the fact that this kid, and lets face it - it's a 15 y.o kid (its' not like they couldn't have overpowered him)- was shot and killed by incompetent police officers, and that it is not justifiable.

[KurtFF8]

Well it is still quite "wrong" of the police. But I doubt, after finding out that he was a nationalist, that there will be much solidarity or mass protest about this from the left obviously.

[cop an Attitude]

Sounds not so much like sadistic police, but extremely poorly trained, panicky, bimbos with guns and badges

Most of the young guns on the force are pretty overzelious. I go to a school that the main major is "criminal justice" if you want to call it that. Some of the stuff that comes out of the drunk CJ majors is absoultly scary. I asked a kid at a party why he wanted to be a cop and I distinctivly remember in the conversation he said "I just want bust some crack heads, you know? Just wail on them. who cares about some fucking junkie, right?". I asked him if he was kidding, he wasnt. Now I'm not saying that all the cj majors here are in it for the power, a lot of them think their doing good for the community. I always tell them though that if they want to do good, then go be a firefighter or an EMT.

[Revy]

I didn't know he was a fascist. Well, fuck him then. That doesn't mean I approve of this, though...don't take it the wrong way.

[butterfly]

Really? That's the leftist position? The kid subscribed to a nationalist political party, probably with no concept of what nationalism or politics is and we excuse the police brutality and the loss of a young mans life?

[ZeroNowhere]

I didn't know he was a fascist. Well, fuck him then.
I am hoping that you are not being serious.

[Revy]

Sorry. I meant that I don't like him personally but I still think this was wrong.
I even added that.

[cop an Attitude]

Really? That's the leftist position? The kid subscribed to a nationalist political party, probably with no concept of what nationalism or politics is and we excuse the police brutality and the loss of a young mans life?

Butterfly has it right, nobody should take his political standpoint too seriously, after all, he was just a kid. When I was 15 I loved the US and didnt understand other cultures, so what, doesnt mean I should die. I often fear this hatred towards facists, I know of the horrors believe me. Sometimes though, people follow it like a witchhunt, with very little valid resoning besides the fact that it is counter-productive to the left. This kid was no facists does subscribing to a nationalistic club make you a facists? Might as well say flag waving makes you a facists. I bet he didn't even know what that word meant. I know the dangers of such thoughts but it is a word thats thrown around way too much, because when somebody is labled a facists, then they are our enemy. Is this kid our enemy?

oh and btw, this is a general concern, not a direct comment to Stancel.

[Pogue]

The police are a fucking joke. That Australian nationalist group sounds like fucked up shit though.

[S.O.I]

the left must show compassion for this kid, not only by principle, but by sheer solidarity for humans, and especially kids... he may have been a little disorientated in his political views, but the kid was 15... the cops who did this were 10 times more fascist than this little bugger could have been... if stormfront and the likes heard about a 15 yo commie kid was shot by cops... well guess 1 times what reaction there would be. do you want to sink to that level? no. RIP

[Eros]

Really? That's the leftist position? The kid subscribed to a nationalist political party, probably with no concept of what nationalism or politics is and we excuse the police brutality and the loss of a young mans life?

No, but let's shed tears over a dead fascist. :crying:

[Eros]

the left must show compassion for this kid, not only by principle, but by sheer solidarity for humans, and especially kids... he may have been a little disorientated in his political views, but the kid was 15... the cops who did this were 10 times more fascist than this little bugger could have been... if stormfront and the likes heard about a 15 yo commie kid was shot by cops... well guess 1 times what reaction there would be. do you want to sink to that level? no. RIP

So at what age could one become a fascist, knowingly?

[butterfly]

Yes because a 15-year-old with a poor education, who grew up in a city renown for politcal apathy, really knew what being a facist actually was:rolleyes:

[KC]

Anti-immigrant =/= fascism.

[Killfacer]

Why do police never shoot anyone in the leg? Would have disarmed him immedietly and that would have been the end of it.

[butterfly]

But do you really think he had the emotional maturity to comprehend what that meant? Even if he was involved it was probably through a desire to be part of a clique, like any other teenager.
Persoanlly i'm not shedding any tears, however his political affiliations don't excuse this brutal use of force and ultimate loss of life.

[Eros]

Yes because a 15-year-old with a poor education, who grew up in a city renown for politcal apathy, really knew what being a facist actually was:rolleyes:

I suppose the truth is none of us knew him.

[Eros]

Anti-immigrant =/= fascism.

True, but is there a single fascist who isn't anti-immgrant or an anti-immgrant bigot who wouldn't be in favour of fascism?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

For fucks sake. If you dick heads had failed to notice most normal people are nationalist and anti-immigrant these days thanks to the shitty media (when i was 11 i used to have a fucking union jack on my wall). So what if they kid was a nationalist? , the cops could have just shot any fucking kid.

[Junius]

True, but is there a single fascist who isn't anti-immgrant or an anti-immgrant bigot who wouldn't be in favour of fascism? I would say that a fascist would be in favor of fascism.

Just my opinion though. :unsure:


Anti-immigrant =/= fascism. Short, but spot on.

This young man's nationalist views aren't particularly different to the nationalist views of a great deal of any working class population. This doesn't have its basis in fascism (which would be a convenient enemy to wash our hands with) but it rests with capitalism itself, and the main leaders of that system - the right wing like Howard and the social-democrats like Rudd have done more than any anti-immigrant Internet group to perpetuate this xenophobia and patriotism.

So far as the young man is concerned, I feel sorry over his needless death and angry over the police's totally disproportionate response. Yes, he had nationalistic views - I held some silly views when I was 14. I don't think anyone deserves to die for holding them. Interesting when leftists cheer on the bourgeoisie state when it kills youth and seeks to justify its actions. A very good precedent, indeed.

[bcbm]

What kind of sick fucking joke of a leftist cheers on or excuses the police murder of a 15 year old?

[Guerrilla22]

Why do police never shoot anyone in the leg? Would have disarmed him immedietly and that would have been the end of it.

Because the police always claim that their lives are endangered (you never know, the kid could have killed several armed cops, single handed with a pocket knife) and they are supposedly trained to kill once they fire their weapons, aside from that people can die just as easily from getting shot in the leg if an artery is hit. Why didn't the cops just walk up to the kid, spray him in the face with some pepper spray, the cuff him? Or walk up to him, grab him by the arm, twist his arm to get him to drop the knife? The kid was 15 and looked like he only weighed about 100 pounds for fuck's sake.

[Revy]

Did anyone think I was cheering this? I never "cheered"....stop overreacting. I just voiced my displeasure of hearing about his ideology.

[Q]

Are all 15 year olds fucking target practice now or something?! :mad:

[Comrade B]

Contradicting my tag

Kids follow what their parents and buddies tell them ordinarily. I doubt this kid had any idea what the hell any of the shit actually meant. It is just another kid shot by overly aggressive cops.

[Comrade_Red]

Butterfly has it right, nobody should take his political standpoint too seriously, after all, he was just a kid. When I was 15 I loved the US and didnt understand other cultures, so what, doesnt mean I should die. I often fear this hatred towards facists, I know of the horrors believe me. Sometimes though, people follow it like a witchhunt, with very little valid resoning besides the fact that it is counter-productive to the left. This kid was no facists does subscribing to a nationalistic club make you a facists? Might as well say flag waving makes you a facists. I bet he didn't even know what that word meant. I know the dangers of such thoughts but it is a word thats thrown around way too much, because when somebody is labled a facists, then they are our enemy. Is this kid our enemy?

oh and btw, this is a general concern, not a direct comment to Stancel.

Agreed.

[redarmyfaction38]

Are all 15 year olds fucking target practice now or something?! :mad:
love your avatar!
and you're right on point.
15 YEARS OLD, when i think of the shit i believed cos i knew no better DESPITE being a "communist".
notice there was no general uprising and revolt against the murder of a child by the police state though; how de-sensitised have we become?

[Shadowed Intent]

Contradicting my tag

Kids follow what their parents and buddies tell them ordinarily. I doubt this kid had any idea what the hell any of the shit actually meant. It is just another kid shot by overly aggressive cops.

But these days a majority of people who are over 20 or 30 don't know all that much more about politics than most 15 year olds.

[Comrade B]

But these days a majority of people who are over 20 or 30 don't know all that much more about politics than most 15 year olds.
give them a few years before celebrating their deaths. I am sure that if I personally knew the kid, I probably would have thought he was a real dick head, but I don't think I would ever wish someone to die for their political beliefs at an age where they still need their mothers to do the shopping for them.

[Wanted Man]

It's just a 15-year-old kid. We all probably had fucking stupid ideas when we were 15, doesn't mean that anyone deserves to be shot by a cop. Children who are already exhibiting the ideas of nazis should be taken care of, lest they keep growing up with nazi ideology and become nazi activists. They shouldn't be shot by pig bastards, and this fact should definitely not be celebrated.

If you want to put a bunch of fat, bald adult nazis in a cage together with cops, I'm all for it. But not kids.

[Comrade B]

We all probably had fucking stupid ideas when we were 15
Yeah, I liked Stalin when I was a kid

sorry, had to say that

[The Feral Underclass]

Even if what they say about the police officer being backed into a corner is true, clearly shooting the boy in the chest was not their only solution. I could think of numerous non-fatal places to shoot someone if I was being threatened and have the common sense to see it through and I'm not even trained to use a gun. Police officers are supposed to be trained on how to detain people, killing someone is surely the last resort. Claiming that people who are trained in restraining people and how to use firearms were not "trigger happy" after they shot a teenage boy without even entertaining other possibilities is evidently bullshit.

[ashaman1324]

stop making excuses for him.
should he have been killed?
no
should he have been punched?
maybe...

[butterfly]

The point is that he was killed and to make the focal point of a dicussion his politics is to ignore the broader perspective.
Like someone said, it sets a negative precedent.

[Shadowed Intent]

To those people saying punching him would have been a good idea, remember that he was holding two knives.

[redarmyfaction38]

stop making excuses for him.
should he have been killed?
no
should he have been punched?
maybe...
nobody is making excuses for him, your own post reflects the opinion of the majority of posters.
a smack in the mouth for being an idiot 15 year old "fascist".
not a death sentence from an idiot policeman.

[Black Dagger]

Even if what they say about the police officer being backed into a corner is true, clearly shooting the boy in the chest was not their only solution. I could think of numerous non-fatal places to shoot someone if I was being threatened and have the common sense to see it through and I'm not even trained to use a gun. Police officers are supposed to be trained on how to detain people, killing someone is surely the last resort. Claiming that people who are trained in restraining people and how to use firearms were not "trigger happy" after they shot a teenage boy without even entertaining other possibilities is evidently bullshit.

I'd just like to add that the 'backed into a corner thing' makes very little sense, and i suspect it was invented by the police in question to justify their actions - the police argument is after all, 'our lives were threatened we had to defend ourselves'. However, this kid was not shot in the stairwell where he had apparently 'cornered' one of the officers - he was shot in the open park - and at a distance of 15m - that is not what i would call 'cornered' - and certainly makes the police argument of an imminent threat much less plausible.

There were three officers - one of them was apparently corned in a stairwell by this kid - but the kid was shot six times in the chest (not in the back, he was shot from the front), so either the other two officers were also in the stairwell - which is not what the police said (and also kind of detracts from the 'threat' argument- three officers with firearms 'cornered' by a 50kg 15 y.o kid with a knife - yeah ummm) - or they're lying.

Considering the kid was shot in the chest by each officer and at a distance, he must have been in front of all of them - not cornering just one - and as he was killed in the park the argument that they had no choice really is hollow and seems to obviously contradict the significance of the whole 'he cornered us thing' - you can't be cornered in an open park, and that he may have cornered one officer before then moving out into the park is not an excuse for shooting them - once they left the stairwell the 'threat' is greatly diminished. However the cops are using the 'he cornered us' argument as a justification for the shooting. For that to make sense, surely the shooting would have taken place in the stairwell or whereever they were actually cornered? :blink:

There was 15m between them and this kid - if they were really so scared of him, one shot in the leg would provide more than enough of a handicap (adrenaline would only carry him so far after being shot, they could put a good distance between them eliminating the threat of the kids knife) for them to retreat and wait for backup (apparently three cops isn't enough to disarm a 15.yo kid without killing them :rolleyes:). The police story is just very sus and unconvincing - i really can't see any acceptable (from a formal legal POV) argument they could make to justify shooting this kid to death six times in the chest.

[eatmoreveggies]

A young, ignorant fascist gets gunned down by older, incompetent fascists. Life is not without its ironies I suppose. A sad loss, as is the loss of virtually any human life.