the word "American"

[Revy]

This was addressed in another thread. Someone said, you can't say America as referring to the country because that's the continent. I don't see why it cannot refer to both. Though, as a noun, the USA or U.S. might be better.

There is no other country in the Americas, which uses "American" as a demonym.

It is true that in Spanish and Portuguese, it is proper to use words like estadounidense and estadunidense, respectively. These words literally translate to UnitedStatesian or Unitedstatian. French Canadians might use the word etatsunien (I don't have my keyboard set up to type accents, I'll do that later). And when I speak Spanish I will use the word estadounidense. I favor bilingualism, and I think that when Spanish is spoken here in the U.S. that it would still be wrong to say "americano" or "America", definitely incorrect. Though who knows, maybe that use will prevail among Latinos here in the US.

Esperanto uses "Usono", which may be where the Anglicized alternative to American, "Usonia" comes from. Which I actually think is the best alternative out of any of them.

Now, what I think is that it shouldn't be considered offensive for someone to use "American" in English. Because that just happens to be universally accepted demonym in English. Words like USian, UnitedStatesian/Unitedstatian, Usan, you get the idea, haven't catched on for a reason and it's because they, to be quite honest, suck. Usonian has the most promise, but it hasn't catched on. I mean, you could argue that it would be best to abandon "American" but can we really ?

I actually like Usonia. Comrades, what do you think? Should we change it to "Usonia" after the revolution? ;)

[hugsandmarxism]

Well, the Japanese refer to us as "America-jin," so there's a counter. Good luck getting people to bring impassioned debate to this thread though...

[Black Dagger]

This is not really related to an example or issue of social discrimination.

Moved to politics - though it really doesn't fit anywhere except perhaps chit-chat.

[AtteroDominatus]

I don't really see why it matters. I'm fine with being called an American, and if people take offense at it, they should really hit themselves with a hammer to straighten themselves out, because someone's getting a bit to 'politically correct' and knit picky about stuff that honestly doesn't matter.

[Ol' Dirty]

America is everything from the Aleutians to the Tierra del Fuego. USers are often intensely anti-American. I love America... the whole thing.

Arundhati Roy, in her exquisite "Come September" speech said:

"What does the term 'anti-American” mean? Does it mean you’re anti-jazz? Or that your apposed to free speech? that you don’t delight in Toni Morrison or John Updike? That you have a quarrel with giant sequoias? Does it mean that you don’t admire the hundreds of thousands of American citizens who marched against nuclear weapons or the thousands of war resisters who forced their government to withdraw from Vietnam? Does it mean that you hate all Americans? This sly conflation of America’s culture, music, literature - the breath taking physical beauty of the land - the ordinary pleasures of the people.'

[Shadowed Intent]

This was addressed in another thread. Someone said, you can't say America as referring to the country because that's the continent. I don't see why it cannot refer to both. Though, as a noun, the USA or U.S. might be better.

There is no other country in the Americas, which uses "American" as a demonym.

It is true that in Spanish and Portuguese, it is proper to use words like estadounidense and estadunidense, respectively. These words literally translate to UnitedStatesian or Unitedstatian. French Canadians might use the word etatsunien (I don't have my keyboard set up to type accents, I'll do that later). And when I speak Spanish I will use the word estadounidense. I favor bilingualism, and I think that when Spanish is spoken here in the U.S. that it would still be wrong to say "americano" or "America", definitely incorrect. Though who knows, maybe that use will prevail among Latinos here in the US.

Esperanto uses "Usono", which may be where the Anglicized alternative to American, "Usonia" comes from. Which I actually think is the best alternative out of any of them.

Now, what I think is that it shouldn't be considered offensive for someone to use "American" in English. Because that just happens to be universally accepted demonym in English. Words like USian, UnitedStatesian/Unitedstatian, Usan, you get the idea, haven't catched on for a reason and it's because they, to be quite honest, suck. Usonian has the most promise, but it hasn't catched on. I mean, you could argue that it would be best to abandon "American" but can we really ?

I actually like Usonia. Comrades, what do you think? Should we change it to "Usonia" after the revolution? ;)

That wouldn't really work, since it would not have any relation to the United States anymore.

[Vendetta]

I don't see what the problem is, in using American.

[Sankofa]

Is this in response to the guy that got on my case for using "America" to mean the United States?

Yes, technically, "America" doesn't solely mean the United States, but when people talk about "Americans" and "America" they are talking about the United States. I don't really see what the big deal is.

[spartan]

The word "America" is derived from the surname of a Welshman called Richard Ameryk (Welsh: ap Meryk) who was the biggest donater of money to finance John Cabot's 1497 expedition to the new world for King Henry VII of England to find new lands for him (Ameryk also financed expeditions of Bristol sailors to Newfoundland as early as 1479 which is why Columbus discovered Bristol fishermen there in 1492).

The story goes that as Ameryk was the one who contributed the most money to finance Cabot's expedition then any new lands discovered by Cabot were to be named after Ameryk, thus we have "America" (the theory of America being named after Columbus's mapmaker Amerigo Vespucci is incorrect due to Amerigo not being of royal blood and thus unable to have any new lands discovered named after his first name, indeed if they named the new continent after Vespucci then we would be calling America "Vespuccia" today).

Now "America" referred not to the continent at first (they didn't even know they had discovered a new continent yet!) but only to the lands discovered by Cabot and considered sovereign Kingdom of England territory (as Cabot was sailing under the English flag and authoritary of the English King, who was actually a Welshmen but what the hell Medieval politics are complicated enough as it is).

Now as what is now the United States was originally a collection of 13 British (England now being apart of a new British Empire) north American colonies collectively recognised as "America", and became an independent nation after rebellion against the British Empire, I would say that "America" is more then acceptable for English speakers to use when referring to the United States of America as long as you make the distinction for those who may think you are referring to the continent as opposed to the country.

Hell the country is called America all it does is add the United States part in as it's political and governing system involves the use of states which together are united into the nation of America.

Of intrest as well is the fact that the stars and strpes was most probably derived from Ameryk's family coat of arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Amerike

[Oneironaut]

The story goes that as Ameryk was the one who contributed the most money to finance Cabot's expedition then any new lands discovered by Cabot were to be named after Ameryk, thus we have "America" (the theory of America being named after Columbus's mapmaker Amerigo Vespucci is incorrect due to Amerigo not being of royal blood and thus unable to have any new lands discovered named after his first name, indeed if they named the new continent after Vespucci then we would be calling America "Vespuccia" today).


That's really interesting! A history professor who knew his shit really well told me that America was named after Vespucci... it seems he missed that tidbit! Thanks for the clarification though:)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

There are two distinct geographic paradigms used in different countries and the differences between these models are responsible for these arguments. In Latin America, the Iberian peninsula and a few other countries, America is one continent and the nationality of people from the USA isn't "American", it's "North American" or in some cases "Unitedstatesian".

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

And most historians still agree that America was named after Amerigo Vespucci. The sources are pretty definitive and the consensus pretty universal. Whoever told you otherwise is a crackpot.

[Oneironaut]

And most historians still agree that America was named after Amerigo Vespucci. The sources are pretty definitive and the consensus pretty universal. Whoever told you otherwise is a crackpot.

Are you talking to me? or spartan?

[spartan]

And most historians still agree that America was named after Amerigo Vespucci. The sources are pretty definitive and the consensus pretty universal. Whoever told you otherwise is a crackpot.

That isn't true.

If America was named after Amerigo Vespucci then it would have been named Vespuccia due to the practice of newly conquered lands only being named after the first names of those with royal blood which Vespucci didn't have.

Back in those days Ameryk's last name would have been anglicised to "Amerike" (which is how he is known to us throughout history and would have been known as that by Cabot and the Bristol sailors he was so fond of financing).

Derivation of "America" from Amerike, the sponsor of the discovery of Newfoundland is etymologically easier than from "Amerigo Vespucci," the map-maker, even though the latin writing of the name is Americi Vespvci. America is the the feminized version of his name.

Ameryk had no royal blood so any new lands discovered by the men he financed would have been named after his last name Ameryk/Amerike (like Amerigo Vespucci).

There is also the fact that Ameryk financed expeditions by Bristol sailors and fishermen to Newfoundland in 1479 much earlier then Columbus (who knew of these expeditions, as is proven by documents from the time discovered in 1955 in Spain, and even came across these men on later expeditions near the area) started making voyages to the Americas himself with his mapmaker Amerigo Vespucci.

It was Martin Waldseemuller in 1507 who first started the popular story of calling the new continent "America" after Amerigo Vespucci accounts of his expeditions.

The trouble is these accounts, as it later turned out, were fabrications, not by Vespucci, but by others.

Some historians are gradually coming round to the idea that Amerike gave his name to America due to his earlier involvment then all the other major players in it's exploration and the fact that the facts all point to him now having an equally good claim to having the continent named after him as Vespucci.

The fact that Waldseemuller had access to English maps of the new continent where Amerike's name is purported to have appeared shows this to be a strong possibility, especially when you consider that Waldseemuller was misled by the forged Soderini letter which reports that the New World is populated by giants, cannibals, and sexually insatiable females and implies it was discovered first by Vespucci.

[Revy]

Some more info on the word "Usonia"

The word Usonian appears to have been coined by James Duff Law, an American writer born in 1865. In a miscellaneous collection entitled Here and There in Two Hemispheres (1903), Law quoted a letter of his own (dated 18 June 1903) that begins "We of the United States, in justice to Canadians and Mexicans, have no right to use the title 'Americans' when referring to matters pertaining exclusively to ourselves." He went on to acknowledge that some author had proposed "Usona," but that he preferred "Usonia." He said this was an abbreviation of "United States Of Northern Independent America".

The Usonian architecture developed by Frank Lloyd Wright (which is what the word is mostly used for) is actually green and environmentally conscious. Frank Lloyd Wright said "We have no real name for ourselves".

It's very interesting. I think it has a futuristic quality to it. Not like I care. Since my ultimate goal is the entire world as one country I could care less.

[S.O.I]

Do the U.S'ians really need that last A? We all know where it is... :cool:

[AtteroDominatus]

Do the U.S'ians really need that last A? We all know where it is... :cool:
If we take it out people might forget! God forbid someone forgets the A in writing out USA!

But no, I think we could just deal with the USians. though i prefer American :P