Should "gay" kids have their own high schools??! - A questio [Archive]

Soul Rebel

30th July 2003, 20:21

You should be really careful in saying that you are born with it because it supports the theory that you can fix homosexuality with a pill or something. People already believe it to be a "chemical imbalance" which makes it seem as though there is something wrong with it. If it is said to be biological it implies that we can find the gene that causes it and if found we can maybe "fix" it. Homosexuality is a mix of both biology and choice, just like heterosexuality is.

Zombie- i would be the last person to say that the homophobia found in society is ok. What im saying is that school for teens who are gay is extremely hard and if they have the opportunity to be taught in a safe environment then they should go for it. I know it doesnt help get rid of homophobia, but at least it offers a safe environment for gays. Trust me, i have seen so many of my gay friends struggle with school because of homophobia. Had they the chance to go to an alternative school (which is also offered to kids with drug problems, depression, criminal records, etc.) they would have taken it. Life for them was very difficult and then they ended up dropping out because they could no longer take the harassment. Gay teens deserve an education just like everyone else and this may help them get that, without the experience of harassment. Do you get what im saying?

In a way i believe it will open some peoples eyes. They may begin to wonder why this is happening. Some people may realize because of this just how bad gay teens really have it- the torture they have to go through because of classmates. This may make them want to change things. Im not saying all people will do this, but some will.

Ghost Writer

30th July 2003, 20:22

You know, you dont choose your sexuality, your born that way.

What evidence do you have to support that claim?

In fact, NARTH (http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html) does a good job debunking this line of bull that has been fed the general public, by the left leaning press. Find me a geneticist that claims that they have found the genetic variation that causes gayness.

Xprewatik RED

30th July 2003, 20:37

What evidence do you have to support that claim?

Just from people I know, but I dont have evidence on it so I can't argue it.

Ghost Writer

30th July 2003, 20:40

So why did you?

Ghost Writer

30th July 2003, 20:54

Despite the American Psychiatric Association's (APA) declassification of homosexuality as a psychological disorder, caused by severe activist pressure in 1973, there are many in the psychiatric community that still view homosexuality as disordered behavior. The May 2003 Harvard Salient published an article "Is Homosexual Behavior Healthy?: Psychology and homosexuality" (http://hcs.harvard.edu/~salient/issues/05072003/05072003_cover_story_cardinale.html), by By Mary Clare Cardinale, that discusses the dicotomy within the psychiatric community and the reasons why some still classify it as disordered. Te media has been reporting the 1973 declassification as if it were widely accepted by psychiatrists. Is this kind of reporting "fair and balanced"?

Moskitto

30th July 2003, 21:49

How many "gay kids" are there anyway? I haven't met anyone who's "come out" as being gay any younger than 17. I doubt 12 year olds are sufficiently developed to form a genuine permanant sexual preference, many teenagers have homosexual thoughts they don't admit to, but they rarely become homosexuals themselves in later life.

Dr. Rosenpenis

30th July 2003, 22:25

Would racism be any less today, and would race realtion be any better, if segregaton hadn't ended? No. This is the worst thing I can possibly imagine for gays right now.

187

30th July 2003, 22:58

Homosexuality is not a choice. It's a disorder like any other. You don't just wake up on morning and go "Hm I think I'll be gay for a few years and then if I don't like it, I'll try pedophilia, and if that fails, well, maybe I'll be straight again..." the only real choice is acceptance or denial. the true nature of the person remains.

If gay kids get their own tax payer funded highschool because they're picked on, maybe fat kids, islamic kids, etc should get their own highschools as well.
If gay kids want their own private school fine, but the gay agenda shouldn't be forced on to tax payers by way of a seperate school.

We all know how well "seperate but equal" schools worked out for ending racism/getting better education for the african american population earilier in US history. This seperation is in my opinion very reminisent of that program, and could actually do more harm than good in the long run.

Seperation creates more ignorance. this school is a terrible(not to mention rude and unfair) idea.

Felicia

30th July 2003, 23:03

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 30 2003, 04:22 PM

You know, you dont choose your sexuality, your born that way.

What evidence do you have to support that claim?

Only that my friend was "born" gay. He's been gay since he can rememer, since he was a very young child. I believe that you can be born gay because of my friend's experience with being homosexual. He knew he was gay before he started school as a kid, well before a kid should be exposed to "sexuality".

Totalitarian

31st July 2003, 01:18

If there can be schools only for gays, why can't there be schools only for whites?

Hampton

31st July 2003, 01:31

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2003, 07:18 PM
If there can be schools only for gays, why can't there be schools only for whites?
http://www.digisys.net/users/hootie/brown/Girl.jpg

Brown v. Board of Education.

Totalitarian

31st July 2003, 01:37

Hampton:

Well that's fair enough for public schools...........but what about private schools?

Moskitto

31st July 2003, 10:31

I pointed out to some christian fundamentalist on a chatroom that "people don't choose to stick their nob up annother man's arse when they can stick they're nob into some super model" the response I got was "they're gay, so the supermodel doesn't come into it" and I was like, CIRCULAR ARGUEMENT!!!

Anarchist Freedom

31st July 2003, 14:39

i think g kids would like to have there own school
1. if i were gay which am not i would be the first to sign up i could meet a bunch of gay people and we could have a gay orgy
2. i would feel safer with my life surrounded by other gay peers i am
3. there would be the ability to leave the schol whenever you want

am i a homophob since i think its sick to see 2 guys making out ?

ohh i am not gay

dopediana

31st July 2003, 15:02

i think it's sad that things have gotten that bad that people have to start a different school to lessen feelings of oppression. however, i'm all for it if it's going to provide homosexuals with a safer, calmer learning environment, particularly if they're going to be surrounded by people who can sympathize with their situation and have gone through the same thing.

i just hope that homophobes don't put mean graffiti all over the walls at night and persecute them. the world just isn't a safe place.

Danton

31st July 2003, 15:44

Moskitto makes a valid point, how many kid's know they are gay or not? I dont buy into this idea that people know their sexual orientation at that age, at least the majority dont, homosexuality comes down to chromasone's X & Y or lack of, it's not a disorder or difficiency. I dont understand why people such as Totalitarian keep equating it with racial matters, it's a completley different kettle of fish.

The idea of a seperate school is completley unecessary and ridiculous, the real effort should be spent on educating the ignorant homophobes such as Ghost writer, "heterophobia" what nonsense, the opressed cannot discriminate.
When are you going to start a thread entitled simply - SHOULD GAYS BE ALLOWED?

"The skeptic, the analytical sniper, the eclectic dissector of doctrines and psychoanalyst of dogmas". - El Puro

truthaddict11

31st July 2003, 16:05

having a gay school is discriminatory against gays by making an exclusive school its saying we want to make a school just for you because we dont think you get along with the majority of the student population, what if we made a school for arab children or black children? would that be any different? we need to teach tolerance and understanding of homosexuality not ignore it by making a special public school.

Dr. Rosenpenis

31st July 2003, 18:03

exactly! It's not the gay students that have a problem, it's the homophobes. Well said Danton.

Rastafari

31st July 2003, 18:31

Exactly the problem heute. Nobody wants to admit they are afraid as long as they are part of the populace, they assume they are right

Dr. Rosenpenis

31st July 2003, 19:53

what is heute?

Ghost Writer

31st July 2003, 20:43

I am glad to see that someone mentioned Brown vs. the Board of education. However, I am surprised that they did not recognize that this decision makes all forms of segregation unconstitutional. Therefore, the prospect of gay schools is already illegal. Not only is it the reason white people can't have their own schools, but it also remains the reason why the public school system can not form special schools exclusively for gay people.

It is no surprise to me that some here actually support this effort. Again they have been force fed some radical left garbage. The only reason they claim it is a good thing is because they are being manipulated by the liberals who have told them that this is a way to protect homosexuals from persecution.

If these dingbats only had the foresight to recognize that although this is a tool created by those who claim to be gay advocates, this measure sets a dangerous precedent. Tides could turn, power could shift, and a valuable tool (segregated schools for homosexuals) would have already been created for those who wish to persecute gays and lesbians. Although this seems like a good idea to those buying into the gay agenda, it could easily be turned around by the opposition, which could stand to reason that exclusively homosexual schools have already been developed; therefore, why not require all gay children attend them to prevent the infection of our normal children. This is an idea eerily reminiscent of the Nazis segregated Jewish schools. It is no surprise to me that this is being born out of liberalism. Again, the similarities between American liberals and the Nazis never ceases to amaze me. The backlash against the homosexual political movement is already brewing. Why create a tool that could just as easily be utilized by those opposed to homosexuality? Could it be that the gay agenda does not accurately voice the views of those the claim to be speaking for?

Have you asked any homosexuals what they think of this idea. I would be willing to bet that they too find it offensive. Possible orgy or not, I am sure most people want to be treated equally. School is for educating our children, and it is not a dating service for 14 years olds. Children shouldn't be dating at that age anyway, because they are not mature enough to deal with the responsibilites that accompany any form of sex. Pushing a death-style on a group already afflicted by an AIDS epidemic is homocidal in my view.

By the way, good work Moskitto. I was waiting to see if anyone picked up on that point. It's good to see that I am not the only person that has the ability to think logically.

Hampton

31st July 2003, 21:22

Out of all the articles I've read on this subject I didn't find one that said non-gay and lesbian kids were not allowed to attend the school so I'm not sure if you could use Brown as a case against this school, it is a public school I'm not sure if they're allowed to turn down people just because they're not gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender that would be kind of tough to prove I would think. And GW who seems to be implying that this school would be more of an orgy than some other public school and there would be more dating simply because of the fact that they are gay is pretty sad.

187

31st July 2003, 22:40

"homosexuality comes down to chromasone's X & Y or lack of, it's not a disorder or difficiency."

What? Explain to me how homsexuality is not a disorder.

"i'm all for it if it's going to provide homosexuals with a safer, calmer learning environment, particularly if they're going to be surrounded by people who can sympathize with their situation and have gone through the same thing."

Why just homosexuals? Why not a school for fat kids, islamic kids, christian kids, black kids who are getting picked on?

What happens when they get out of school and they are even more foreign to the homophobes they were so well 'protected' from? Will we have to create seperate states for gays only?

Unrelenting Steve

31st July 2003, 23:03

People say in communism that you cant think and do what you want- well its the same in Capitalism, you have freedom and liberty, but its illegal to open a school just for gay people. The government basicly forces all poeple in its juristriction to take on the law as their moral code on what they're alowed to implement- Thats just as "facist" as ne communist country. SO Y DO THEY COMPLAIN, AT LEAST IN COMMUNISM THEY'RE HONEST ABOUT IT! In the western world its all, "you have the liberty to..." and at the bottom it says in fine print;"you have the liberty to do anything...in your head, all actions that you are considering please make sure are in accordance to your sociaties rules and regulations- this is not intolernace, its...well...its the LAW, which is required or there would be chaos! So dont question this seeming hippocracy, at least ur not communist!"

You have the freedom to agree, sounds like facism in fancy terms. but then that is sociaty (im sounding like an anarchist) Communism is a guilty as capitalism.

187

31st July 2003, 23:38

Steve,
This isn't about stoping gays from opening up a privately funded/operated school. This is about the government giving in to the gay agenda and forcing it on to tax payers. Why should gays be the only group that are provided with a government funded private school? What about fat kids, islamic kids etc... god this is getting repetative.

Unrelenting Steve

1st August 2003, 17:34

sorry ur absolutley right.

Guardia Bolivariano

1st August 2003, 18:06

I really don't know what to think.

Gays should be able to integrate into society without so much sufering.

But getting them even more separated from the other people makes It even hardo to coexist.

I only agree to a gay school If it's a choice made by gay students and with their money.

It is segragation IMO but on the other hand most of us can't do anything about hate crimes agaisnt the gay community giving them a sort of place where they can be true to themselves would help them alot I think.

Besides they would be able to ind a much wider range of people that share a very important aspect of their lifes.

But I still think It will bring more problems than solutions.

Exploited Class

1st August 2003, 19:29

I don't know about more problems than helping, but it is a step in the right direction.

I think this shows an obvious concern on the part of progressive thinking people that there is a problem out there but one they can do little to help. People realize that growing up an important part of everybody's molding and shapping into an individual, and that molding process needs to be as safe as possible. But the method at which to protect people is a hard one to tackle, but they are trying to take action and that is what is important.

People being concerned for the welfare and molding process of a disliked minority population has a lot of value. There are a lot of methods to try and fix this, some are simply unrealistic. Well everybody should just accept gay and lesbians as equals and not give them a hard time, is an awesome meme but is an unrealistic goal to achieve in any short period of time. Doing nothing is not a fix at all and shows an unsympathetic society to the needs of the few. Trying to protect people by segergation is not wanted, but it is a means of protection, not perfect but it has yet to be tried so nobody will know the end results till it has been.

The real question is this!

Will seperation from society be more harm than co-existing with society in a hostile enviroment. Which will be more damaging.

If done correctly with gay children in a safe enviroment, education to the hedrosexual populace to prepare them for the eventual acceptance of a re-integrated society with different sexual preferences could have some wonderful outcomes. But it is important on the part of progressive society to educated the stagnant society for that eventual re-integration. Or else you will just be shielding children with no real future goal.

Moskitto

1st August 2003, 21:12

I still don't see the point in "gay schools" this isn't adults we're talking about, it's children. What are children? Do 7 year olds even appreciate the existance of sex yet? how many 13 or 14 year olds are "coming out"? I've never met any. Can we do a special test on people to see if they're gay or not so they don't need to "come out?" Nope. There are far better ways of dealing with homophobia (such as actually tacking action against homophobic bullying rather than making anti-homophobic action illegal) than seperating "gay kids" from bullies who will simply turn on someone else and rarely target gay people anyway being as in schools they are so rare.

Dr. Rosenpenis

1st August 2003, 23:09

Well, there are about 5-10 gay students in my high school...who have come out. This is in only one small school, if they got all the gay students from all of New York, there would be plenty for a school.
I'm just saying there are gays in high school, but that doesn't justify the existance of this school.

Exploited Class

1st August 2003, 23:23

What are children? Do 7 year olds even appreciate the existance of sex yet?

This is a High School, it isn't even a middle school.

how many 13 or 14 year olds are "coming out"?
Most 13 and 14 year olds who are gay know it by that age. The numbers on that age range for coming out or being frank and honest about it, is rising considerably. As more TV shows feature gay people, more gay pride, internet information on coming out are more wide spread, more people, younger people are coming out all the time and suffering consequences from their peers that they were ill prepared for. Nevermind that many 13 and 14 year olds will be online and will be in chatrooms having older gays and lesbians telling them to be proud and come out.

Nope. There are far better ways of dealing with homophobia (such as actually tacking action against homophobic bullying rather than making anti-homophobic action illegal) than seperating "gay kids" from bullies

We've had these schools in Oregon for some time now. They are special schools for people who simply can't go to a regular high school. They are made up pregnant teens, kids with severe mental health issues, foster kids, problem kids, drug and alcohol recovering teens.

I remember Ryan Little ending up at that school because he was so severely picked on he simply refused to attain school any longer. Children are cruel to degrees I can't even imagine, for all intent and purpose he suffered a mental break down. He could no longer cope with the intense, over the top daily humiliation he recieved. It isn't his fault he was weeded out by the bullies and pretty much everybody else to be tortured.

What I am trying to say is, this is a last resort method. This school that they are setting up in NY is to give kids who are gay and who have been tortured to the point they no longer can be with society. This is school is not a "Sign me up I am gay." Most the gay teens going into this school will have suffered some type of emotional trauma. The school counselor(s) are also specialized to handle these exact type of issues.

I am a 29 year old lesbian, and I do have a few gay and lesbian friends and often will run into large groups in parties. You would not believe how many of them dropped out of High School.

You can increase the penalty for other children bothering children but it is pretty hard when it gets to a dozen or perhaps even to the couple of hundred like in Ryan's case, where it is out of control and out of hands of the administration or faculty and they can't stop it. Dirty looks, notes dropped in lockers, tripped in the hallway, people running into you, small whispered comments, on a constant daily basis will deystroy a person.

The only reason I can comprehend why NY is making on of these schools an all gay school is because of the large number of these cases they are dealing with being primarily gay teens.

When deciding on two ways the handle the situation is either.
A, Suicide
B. Dropping out

I think an alternative for these kids, like a school for them is a good answer, and it turns around that despair and allows them to finish high school so they do have some chance at a future.

Don't Change Your Name

2nd August 2003, 04:18

Things will be the same with and without that school.

They will still be discriminated constantly when they are older, and having a school with 100% gay students will have an impact on the education teachers give them.

We all have to receive an equal education. I feel school shouldnt be so important on young people, education should be resumed and they shouldnt spend so much time in there.

Vinny Rafarino

2nd August 2003, 07:22

Oh yes...Ignore solving the root of the problem and simply segregate. That's brilliant.

Watch out Ghost Wanker! I heard from a gay friend of mine that the current "gay agenda" in the "undergroung triple dog-secret gay revolutionary society" is to give you a good case of "the gay" within the next six weeks! Be on the lookout for anyone with good hair posh clothes walking your way! Stay indoors! If you hear showtunes being sung outside your window at night it is too late! You must immediately commit suicide or suffer the consequences of catching "the gay"!

You know...swanky clothes, the ability to "dance while white" etc.

SasafrÃ¡s

2nd August 2003, 07:52

Actually, that school has been in existance for over a year or 2 now. That's not anything new. It's called the Harvey Milk School, I think. Named after a gay politician in San Francisco who was killed.

Exploited Class

2nd August 2003, 08:09

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 2 2003, 12:22 AM
Oh yes...Ignore solving the root of the problem and simply segregate. That's brilliant.
Its not segergating when it is voluntary. This school is a safety net for when an individual has fallen off the tight rope of mainstream society and can no longer walk it safely and productively. Big difference.

Solving the root issue would require a magical wand, do you happen to have one of these magical wands per chance?

Is there some wand that stops a couple millions of people from doing harm to other individuals? I think it is going to have to be stronger than the death penalty because even with that hanging over people's head some people still commit murder.

What is the fix to a 16 year old gay male accidentaly getting aroused in the shower during P.E. and then being violently beaten by a few dozen guys before or after school, a week or two later? Sure they might get arrested, but how much do you want to bet that, that kid has a hard time continuing with their education at that school? So maybe go to a new school and start over? It happens all the time.

A small list of Alternative Schools for Pregnant and Parenting Teens (http://www.ed.gov/pubs/Compendium/)

http://www.ed.gov/pubs/Compendium/ch2c.html

Description of Service Model:
Since 1985, NFS has been a fully accredited, diploma-granting institution, educating over 500 students each school year and 100 students in summer school. Components of the current program include academic programs for middle and high school completion; personal and group counseling; health screening and personal and child health education; access to site-based community health services; access to social services; child development and parenting education; four cooperative child care centers; and summer school.

NFS designs courses that are approved by the New Mexico State Department of Education. A private physician provides prenatal medical care. Classes in prenatal health are a requirement at NFS. The child development component of students' education includes direct instruction and lab experience. English as a second language assistance is available, as are special education classes. Other special classes are provided as support is available.

NFS students come from all Albuquerque public middle and high schools and from schools outside the district. Staff are selected for their professional commitment to equity, their professional expertise in their chosen field, and their ability to seek creative solutions to complex social issues within an educational environment.

They have been doing this for pregnant teens in the united states for over 30 years now. They have these schools all across the country.

And I want somebody to answer this question for me.

So are we segergating pregnant teens as well?

Or are we just trying to give everybody with special circumstances the best shot they can in a world that makes it too hard for them to do?

And I really love everybody's solution to the problem. "You need to solve the problem of homophobia, not move the people"
Well why not enlighten all of us with your brilliant solution on how to end hatred to a minority of people? If you just say "Education" I am not even going to respond.

Exploited Class

2nd August 2003, 08:17

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2003, 01:02 PM
Senora, are you saying that it's okay if the general population is homophobic? that this school will solve the problem once and for all?
It maybe a solution, but it's no way permanent. Change the people's mind, don't excuse it. That's the permanent solution.

Senora, are you saying that it's okay if the general population is homophobic?
She never said she was okay with homophobia, no need to put words into people's mouth.

that this school will solve the problem once and for all?
I don't see where she once said that it will solve a problem once and for all, or even hinted to that.

Change the people's mind, don't excuse it. That's the permanent solution.

Yes that is a neat expression but, let's hear some ways to change people mind on deep rooted hatred.

Nobody said or even hinted that this will permanently solve all the gay problems in the world, except you.

Why not protect those that need protection while the rest of the world learns to catch up and not be homophobic? Can't you do both while trying for a goal?

Exploited Class

2nd August 2003, 08:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2003, 03:14 PM
this school does nothing to end homophobia
Nobody ever said this school was designed or intended to stop homophobia. Why are people drawing this conclusion out of thin air?

And yes having a school for pregnant teen parents, doesn't solve the problem of teen pregancy, nobody ever thought it would.

Exploited Class

2nd August 2003, 08:23

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 30 2003, 01:22 PM

You know, you dont choose your sexuality, your born that way.

What evidence do you have to support that claim?

In fact, NARTH (http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html) does a good job debunking this line of bull that has been fed the general public, by the left leaning press. Find me a geneticist that claims that they have found the genetic variation that causes gayness.
When did you chose to be hetrosexual Norm?

Exploited Class

2nd August 2003, 08:37

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 30 2003, 01:54 PM
Despite the American Psychiatric Association's (APA) declassification of homosexuality as a psychological disorder, caused by severe activist pressure in 1973, there are many in the psychiatric community that still view homosexuality as disordered behavior. The May 2003 Harvard Salient published an article "Is Homosexual Behavior Healthy?: Psychology and homosexuality" (http://hcs.harvard.edu/~salient/issues/05072003/05072003_cover_story_cardinale.html), by By Mary Clare Cardinale, that discusses the dicotomy within the psychiatric community and the reasons why some still classify it as disordered. Te media has been reporting the 1973 declassification as if it were widely accepted by psychiatrists. Is this kind of reporting "fair and balanced"?

Despite the American Psychiatric Association's (APA) declassification of homosexuality as a psychological disorder, caused by severe activist pressure in 1973, there are many in the psychiatric community that still view homosexuality as disordered behavior.

Good site for you Norm. Flat Earth Society. (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flatearth.html) Just because a few people still believe in old beliefs, doesn't mean it is still up for debate. It wasn't "Severe Activist Pressure" it was "Severe Patient Pressure" that changed it. And an overall failure on the APA's part to have any real proof that being homosexual was a problem to oneself. The APA who writes the DSM dropped it because nobody was getting cured, and the treatment they imposed were people were being treated as if it was a behavior disfunction, shock treatments and frontal lobe lops. You know, the showing a picture of a gay man and then shocking the victim, to re-educate them. The real activists were the christian and conservatives who greatly wanted this diagnosis to stay in the DSM II or III, no matter the cost of the APA's image.

By Mary Clare Cardinale, that discusses the dicotomy within the psychiatric community and the reasons why some still classify it as disordered. Te media has been reporting the 1973 declassification as if it were widely accepted by psychiatrists. Is this kind of reporting "fair and balanced"?

You are a hoot. The media is reporting it as such because it is as such. The majority accepted it, a minority (one's who made a living off of "treating" or specializing in gay and lesbian research) were not as accepting, as well as those with very biased christian or religious fundamental beliefs.

2 or 3 papers from a couple of people do not make up a majority.

Vinny Rafarino

2nd August 2003, 09:01

I commend your reasoning Comrade Exploited Class howver I simply do not think it's wise to make exceptions for anyone that will damage the public credibility of the movement for equality among the gay community. Minorities get beaten severely at scholl by racist kid-thugs all the time, should we then suggest the answer is to create public schools as a reactionary defense tactic rather that fighting the problem head on?

The gay community must stand up for themselves. Hiding away in an all gay school only presents weakness and gives the public reason to be even more suspicious of homosexuals. With the average IQ in the USA being around 100 it is most probable that the majority of the public will see this as proof that gays are indeed a different species or as with fools like Ghost Whiner to even go so far as to think of the school as a "gay agenda" edifice with plans to make the whole world catch the gay.

I thought the goal was to create homogenisation with the heterosexual world. I see this public display of separation as damaging to our homosexual comrade's fight for justice and equality.

I can also attest that not only homosexual individuals will sometimes get an erection in the most inconvenient of times. At 35 I still get the occasional "where the fuck did that come from" erection.
(It makes me happy these days)

Moskitto

2nd August 2003, 12:07

Most 13 and 14 year olds who are gay know it by that age. The numbers on that age range for coming out or being frank and honest about it, is rising considerably. As more TV shows feature gay people, more gay pride, internet information on coming out are more wide spread, more people, younger people are coming out all the time and suffering consequences from their peers that they were ill prepared for. Nevermind that many 13 and 14 year olds will be online and will be in chatrooms having older gays and lesbians telling them to be proud and come out.

So how have I spent everyday in a high school in a highly liberal area where homosexuality is tolerated extremely well, even by local church leaders, never seen these "considerable numbers" of 13 or 14 year olds coming out whereas 17 year olds coming out is rather common?

dannie

2nd August 2003, 17:29

i'm totaly for this idea, but only like said here is sort of a last resort,

suicide ratings under the gay scene is significant higher (17% if i remeber wel) to +-5% in heterosexual 'scene', people who get picked on in this kind of degree should have a save place to go, if they don't people often go create one thereselves (locking themselves up in their rooms, locking themselves up in their onw mind, create different personalitys, start mutilating themselves), so it is imporant that gay but as well kids who suffer from child-abuse or other troubles have there own safe place (and the place where they get picked on the most is school, so why don't start there)

my 2 cents

Bianconero

2nd August 2003, 18:02

Prejudices against homosexuals are prejudices no matter what. And prejudices are enforced by segregation. People who defend segregation, defend prejuduce against homosexuals. And people who defend prejudice are no comrades of mine. They are reactionary and opposed to the marxist/communist movement.

It's as simple as that.

Furthermore, I'm convinced that prejudice against minorities (not of any relevance what kind of minority, homosexuals, an ethnic minority, it doesn't matter really) is all caused by a system of class war. Just as racism, it is an method of the ruling class, of the capital to fool people over the real problems they have to face.

Nick Yves

4th August 2003, 01:10

First of all, this is NOT segregation. Gay students CHOOSE to go to this school if they want to. I've heard people say some pretty ridiculous things, like ''Why dont heterosexual kids get THERE own highschool!? Huh!? Huh!?'' Well I'll tell you why! They don't get picked on for their sexual preference.

This school is a good idea. If a male 15 year old in New York attends a highschool where he gets beat up every day for his sexual preference, then he has the option of attending this school without fear of harassment.

Loknar

4th August 2003, 01:29

Lets get a school for white skin heads while we're at it. Useing the same logic for supporting Gay schools can also be used for supporting a KKK school.

Nick Yves

4th August 2003, 01:50

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 01:29 AM
Lets get a school for white skin heads while we're at it. Useing the same logic for supporting Gay schools can also be used for supporting a KKK school.

Lets get a school for white skin heads while we're at it. Useing the same logic for supporting Gay schools can also be used for supporting a KKK school.

Howso? At my school, atleast, if anyone were to come out of the closet they would get RIDICULED. Beaten up. Stomped. And by who, do you ask? The ''Nazi's'' we have at my school. They aren't so much Nazi's, but when I wore a shirt that said ''Keep your country nice and clean'' that shows a person throwing away a Swastika, I almost got in a fight with them. Same with one time when I wore a bob marley shirt, mearly because he was black, they told me not to where it. Not only do these points prove themself, but like I said, if anyone was to come out, they would most likely be the first ones to beat them up.

Moskitto

4th August 2003, 16:26

Just grow so your huge, then people run into you and they bounce off you.

Anyway, aren't there allready schools which people can go to instead of regular schools if they are subject to substancial bullying in regular schools?

Nick Yves

5th August 2003, 12:58

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 04:26 PM
Just grow so your huge, then people run into you and they bounce off you.

Anyway, aren't there allready schools which people can go to instead of regular schools if they are subject to substancial bullying in regular schools?
Yes probably, but whos to say that they wont still be alienated at those schools?

There is nothing wrong with this.

Vinny Rafarino

5th August 2003, 23:31

I can see jetgrind how you would be upset at nazis. My advice; stop provoking them. Yeah, life's unfair. You should be able to wear whatever you want without fear of violence but in this case, who cares? It's just high school. Once you get into the real world and decide to further yourself intellectually, these morons will all be sitting around some hovel somewhere *****ing about the "gay and black agenda" while slamming cases of Lucky Lager. If you don't want to "not provoke them" then either create a band of homosexual kung-fu artists or simply get a nice handgun and clip these morons.

Either way, segregating yourselves will only drive the stake of mistrust and hate against homosexuals deeper.

Nick Yves

6th August 2003, 00:22

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 5 2003, 11:31 PM
I can see jetgrind how you would be upset at nazis. My advice; stop provoking them. Yeah, life's unfair. You should be able to wear whatever you want without fear of violence but in this case, who cares? It's just high school. Once you get into the real world and decide to further yourself intellectually, these morons will all be sitting around dome hovel somewhere bihching about the "gay and black agenda" while slamming cases of Lucky Lager. If you don't want to "not provoke them" then either create a band of homosexual kung-fu artists or simply get a nice handgun and clip these morons.

Either way, sergregating yourselves will only drive the stack of mistrust and hate against homosexuals deeper.
Gee raf, what a realistic responce! Okay, I'll stop provoking them. I will quit wearing tshirts that go against Nazi's and have artists who are african on them. While we're at it, maybe all the gay kids should just shut the fuck up and not come out of the closet, and we can all just live in fear of them and do what they tell us. Hey you! Dont wear a tshirt with a black man on it! YES SIR. HEY YOU! Queer kids! Stop telling people you are gay and quit having that sexual preference! Okay whatever you say Mr. Nazi, sir.

Sounds like an EXCELLENT plan to me.

Urban Rubble

6th August 2003, 00:31

"I can see jetgrind how you would be upset at nazis. My advice; stop provoking them. Yeah, life's unfair"

Nah, fuck that. Provoking Nazi's is one of my all time favorite past times. Ya, I've been beaten up a few times (O.K, alot of times) but the thing is, I don't care. I can take a beating, I do it all the time. I honestly feel satisfied when I piss those guys off enough for them to want to fight me, it's great. Not to mention the fact that about half of the time they try to fight me and that gives me a perfectly legal excuse to pull out brass knuckles, chains or bats.

I'm not THAT violent of a person, I just enjoy beating Nazis till they beg forgiveness. What's even better is seeing my Jewish buddy kick Nazis in the face.

Good times.

Dr. Rosenpenis

6th August 2003, 01:00

if there were nazis in my school, i would form an anti-nazi club, just to counter their presence. :D

Vinny Rafarino

6th August 2003, 01:21

Originally posted by jetgrind+Aug 6 2003, 12:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jetgrind @ Aug 6 2003, 12:22 AM)
COMRADE [email protected] 5 2003, 11:31 PM
I can see jetgrind how you would be upset at nazis. My advice; stop provoking them. Yeah, life's unfair. You should be able to wear whatever you want without fear of violence but in this case, who cares? It's just high school. Once you get into the real world and decide to further yourself intellectually, these morons will all be sitting around dome hovel somewhere bihching about the "gay and black agenda" while slamming cases of Lucky Lager. If you don't want to "not provoke them" then either create a band of homosexual kung-fu artists or simply get a nice handgun and clip these morons.

Either way, sergregating yourselves will only drive the stack of mistrust and hate against homosexuals deeper.
Gee raf, what a realistic responce! Okay, I'll stop provoking them. I will quit wearing tshirts that go against Nazi's and have artists who are african on them. While we're at it, maybe all the gay kids should just shut the fuck up and not come out of the closet, and we can all just live in fear of them and do what they tell us. Hey you! Dont wear a tshirt with a black man on it! YES SIR. HEY YOU! Queer kids! Stop telling people you are gay and quit having that sexual preference! Okay whatever you say Mr. Nazi, sir.

Sounds like an EXCELLENT plan to me. [/b]
I figured you would miss the point. I suppose insight is not one of your strong points.

The point is do something about it or stop whining. If you think segregating yourself is actually doing something then you are deluded.

You calling me a nazi is one of the most absurd things I have seen in a while. I can see you perhaps have no hope.

Comrade Rubble,

Please re-read my post. Perhaps my intentions will become clear then. You know me better than that Rubble. I'm not the one you need to explain Nazi-bashing to.

Hampton

6th August 2003, 01:52

Originally posted by jetgrind+Aug 6 2003, 07:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jetgrind @ Aug 6 2003, 07:22 PM)
COMRADE [email protected] 5 2003, 11:31 PM
I can see jetgrind how you would be upset at nazis. My advice; stop provoking them. Yeah, life's unfair. You should be able to wear whatever you want without fear of violence but in this case, who cares? It's just high school. Once you get into the real world and decide to further yourself intellectually, these morons will all be sitting around dome hovel somewhere bihching about the "gay and black agenda" while slamming cases of Lucky Lager. If you don't want to "not provoke them" then either create a band of homosexual kung-fu artists or simply get a nice handgun and clip these morons.

Either way, sergregating yourselves will only drive the stack of mistrust and hate against homosexuals deeper.
Gee raf, what a realistic responce! Okay, I'll stop provoking them. I will quit wearing tshirts that go against Nazi's and have artists who are african on them. While we're at it, maybe all the gay kids should just shut the fuck up and not come out of the closet, and we can all just live in fear of them and do what they tell us. Hey you! Dont wear a tshirt with a black man on it! YES SIR. HEY YOU! Queer kids! Stop telling people you are gay and quit having that sexual preference! Okay whatever you say Mr. Nazi, sir.

Sounds like an EXCELLENT plan to me. [/b]
I think you just totally missed the point of what RAF was saying. And RAF is the farthest thing from a nazi.

Danton

6th August 2003, 16:58

Sorry to butt in but I think jetgrind misunderstood RAF but then was misunderstood himself, my understanding is where he says "ok Mr Nazi etc.." He is speaking to the Nazi's who are bullying him understand? no? me either anyway....yes, wear the t-shirts and stand up for yourself like these homosexuals should rather then cowering in their own private school, which will worsen their plight...

Urban Rubble

6th August 2003, 23:50

RAF, I don't think he was calling you a Nazi. I made that mistake at first too.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to explain "nazi bashing" to you, just an offhand comment. I'm sure you've bashed your share of Nazis.

Vinny Rafarino

7th August 2003, 03:32

Yes I see what he meant.

Moskitto

7th August 2003, 12:12

why not give the homophobes a seperate school which gets much less funding where the school just tells them "if you're unable to tolerate homosexuals in this school go to this other crappy school." Homosexuals who've done nothing wrong get to stay in their original school with their non-homophobic friends, non-homosexuals who are tolerant of homosexuals have no trouble and homophobes have the choice between going to the seperate school where they don't have to see the people they hate and just growing up and accepting that homosexuals exist.

Sabocat

7th August 2003, 12:26

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2003, 08:29 PM
Lets get a school for white skin heads while we're at it. Useing the same logic for supporting Gay schools can also be used for supporting a KKK school.
Except of course that you're forgetting that most of those idiots drop out by grade 7 anyway. Building a school for them would be a complete waste of money.

Maybe McDonald's Hamburger University would suit them better.

dopediana

7th August 2003, 14:24

the facts are thus:

sad as it is that people are harassed at school, RAF is right. this is high school. people you see in high school you may never have to see again as long as you live. once you graduate phwoop! you're out the door. you won't be forced to fraternize with these people ever again. nor expected to. i fully believe that people have the right to express themselves freely. but suppose they get beat up for it. don't ***** me out for saying this, but if suppressing yourself for 6 hours a day, 180 days a year, four years straight so you can leave school in one piece is acceptable by my standards. you have a right to be yourself. but people don't always respect that right. don't let them bring you down. be tough. lock them out. tell yourself that they are the scum, not you and as long as you can keep them out, you'll be ok. you can fight (in the figurative sense of the word) but don't fight unless you're sure you have a chance. it's not worth getting fucked over for 4 years and have mental effects lasting the rest of your life because you felt you had to stand up to them in that manner. any way you deal with these people who are in your life IS a struggle. think it out the utilitarian way in terms of your life. how will it affect your future, etc.

i'm not going to reread this post. i'll probably find tons of contradictions. i probably have too much water in my ears.

Nick Yves

7th August 2003, 17:30

RAF, I was certainly not calling you a nazi, but I read that you understand that now...

Hmm...After reading what you said I am getting the other side of your post, but, I still think that if they're getting beat up and tourmented they should protect themselves.

peace..

Urban Rubble

7th August 2003, 23:34

Hey Disgustipated, Fuck Off. I'm a High School drop out.

O.K, don't fuck off, but you hurt my feelings.

O.K, no you didn't, but still, I'm a dropout and I consider myself the smartest man in the Western Hemisphere.

Nick Yves

8th August 2003, 00:13

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 7 2003, 11:34 PM
Hey Disgustipated, Fuck Off. I'm a High School drop out.

O.K, don't fuck off, but you hurt my feelings.

O.K, no you didn't, but still, I'm a dropout and I consider myself the smartest man in the Western Hemisphere.
...Why did you drop out?

guerrillaradio

8th August 2003, 13:37

Isn't the general theory concerning homophobia that it is caused by unfamiliarity and a gut feeling that gays are "wrong" cos they're different?? That's what I usually follow. If so, by segregation won't they just increase the feeling of us and them, straigts and gays, being incompatible and unable to mix?? Yes it fucking will. Moreover, now the homophobes know where the fuck to find them. Hang outside the school gates at 4pm and they will have a huge choice of "fags" to beat up.

Quite apart from that, this is totally at odds to the leftist ideal of equal opportunity. Are we not all the same, regardless of age, gender, race, income and sexuality?? No wait, the gays are slightly different, they get their own high school. This is political correctness and "affirmative action" (what a horrible phrase) gone insane. And also, what does it say about the way our society treats teen homosexuals?? Are we doing this outta pity maybe, or even guilt?? How fucked...

And, the most important and practical point is this: how many 17 year olds know they're gay?? I'm not talking about that rather weird goth in your English Lit class who wears nail varnish and once kissed a guy @ a school club night...that shit is poseur material and fake. I'm saying how many kids have reached a stage where they are sure that they will be homosexual for the rest of their lives?? We all know how fickle adolescence is...what happens if a kid starts there when he's gay, but grows up a little, realises he isn't and wants to leave?? This entire idea is so basically flawed, it smacks of quickfix panicking.

Maybe New York should try and confront what it is that causes homophobia, that being right wing Christian propaganda telling everyone that "AIDS is the queer plague". Maybe it's the constant state-approved jock culture where anyone who can't run 100 in under 15 is a "pussyass fag". Maybe it's the unrelenting pressure on everyone in high school to fit in, to follow the system and do what they're told that leads many kids to wonder whether the subversive guy in the corner is "maybe gay". You can't brush this kinda shit under the carpet.

This is the worst idea I ever heard. It gets me, as a bisexual, absofuckinlutely furious.

Alan :ph34r:

Xvall

8th August 2003, 19:39

Heterophobia doesn't exist very much. Sorry Ghost Writer; I haven't heard of many times where groups of gay kids decide to jump Tom and Betty because they think them screwing in the back of their parent's station wagon is disgusting. As far as the school thing goes, I don't think it's such a great idea. I believe it is a form of segregation. I know that homosexual students are picked on at school, and I believe this should be adressed directly towards these school. Simply making them 'flee' to another school on the base of their sexuality would be ignoring the situtation. The people that pick on homosexual students will see this as a victory of some sort. They will think that the 'fags ran away', or something along those lines. If students of a certain ethnicity were being picked on in a school, I do not thing that relocating them to a specialized (Ethnicity) school would be a very good idea. Regardless, I don't think what I say is going to matter. I'm sure if they do build a school, someone will say that it's an evil action that the left has taken to undermine the glorious (Whatever) of our proud and viligant nation.

Moskitto

8th August 2003, 20:53

Maybe it's the constant state-approved jock culture where anyone who can't run 100 in under 15 is a "pussyass fag".

Damn, I don't think I can do that, but i'm more of a distance runner, give me 4 or 5 miles and i'll probably hammer them all.

right wing Christian propaganda telling everyone that "AIDS is the queer plague".

Very true, and the sad thing is, while the christian fundamentalist propaganda is trying to promote heterosexuality through homophobia, they're actually spurring the increase in cases of HIV amoungst heterosexuals, while homosexuals have become aware that it exists and are taking steps individually (eg. less promiscuity) and as a community (eg. safe sex education) to cut down infection rates, too many heterosexuals still believe it's a "gay mans plague" and I've even seen jokes in mens magazines about safe sex with the punchline "you can only catch it once" (both false, and not the issue with infection anywayanyway.)

guerrillaradio

8th August 2003, 21:40

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 08:53 PM

Maybe it's the constant state-approved jock culture where anyone who can't run 100 in under 15 is a "pussyass fag".

Damn, I don't think I can do that, but i'm more of a distance runner, give me 4 or 5 miles and i'll probably hammer them all.
Hahaha...you know what I mean. Damn rowers. :lol:

Alan :ph34r:

Ghost Writer

12th August 2003, 08:02

Moskitto told Ricky that he shouldn't use the word faggot unless he understands exactly what it means. That thread has since been closed, so I will discuss the word's etymology here.

Of course, most people recognize the fact that the word is representative of a bundle of sticks used to start fires. However, the word later evolved to mean those bundles of wood used especially to burn heretics.

As far as the appearance of the word in the United States, it was first seen in the 20th century as a slang term used to put down men who were seen as girlish. The American version of the word probably came from 19th century all-male British boarding schools, where younger school mates were required to gather wood for the older students fireplaces. Taking a submissive role in gathering the wood left the younger students susceptible to all sorts of extra "chores", if you know what I mean.

Whatever the actual root of the word, it's meaning is clear. It is meant to demean those who engage in homosexual activity, and exists as an excellent way to insult any male. No one wants to be associated with the word, if they are not homosexual. However, homosexuals these days have tried to steal the word for their own uses. Just as inner city blacks call each other "nigger" in passing, homosexuals often use the term in the same manner. Perhaps both groups understand that language evolves, and the best way to combat a derogatory slur is to change its context through common usage.

Hell, if you go to public school in the United States, there is a good chance that you may get a two day "educational" seminar surrounding the meaning of the word. A group known as the Gay Lesbian Straight Alliance (GLSEN) has chapters in all fifty states. (http://www.glsen.org/templates/chapters/index.html) In fact, this is one of the many gay groups that has infiltrated the public school systems, in the interest of undermining the rights of parents, and respect for the majority view that homosexuality is wrong. Take a look at the curricullum that they have created (http://www.glsen.org/binary-data/GLSEN_ARTICLES/pdf_file/1049.pdf) for yourselves, and then tell me that this is not a colossal waste of time.

Because liberals monopolize the school system, we have enough trouble teaching our students english/literature, history, mathematics, science, and other truly valuable material. Maybe we should be focusing our attention in these subjects, and not engage in confusing them with the claptrap of the American left. To me there are more important issues in the public schools system than all inclusive proms. (http://www.glsen.org/templates/news/record.html?section=12&record=1349) Two days wasted on the gay agenda curriculum?! It seems like the gay agenda are the ones with the phobia. 80-120 minutes, or two class periods on a "What do "faggot" and "dyke" mean" lesson plan? How about 80-120 minutes of calculus, or anything resembling the type of material that would actually prepare students for college?

Now is definitely the time for vouchers. It is obvious that we need to open the socialized school system up to competition. Perhaps then gays can choose to go to a all-gay school. However, I fear the will be getting jipped on their education. At least then they will have nobody left to blaim, only their own poor decision making.

Ghost Writer

12th August 2003, 08:23

Very true, and the sad thing is, while the christian fundamentalist propaganda is trying to promote heterosexuality through homophobia, they're actually spurring the increase in cases of HIV amoungst heterosexuals, while homosexuals have become aware that it exists and are taking steps individually (eg. less promiscuity) and as a community (eg. safe sex education) to cut down infection rates, too many heterosexuals still believe it's a "gay mans plague" and I've even seen jokes in mens magazines about safe sex with the punchline "you can only catch it once" (both false, and not the issue with infection anywayanyway.)

In February, Rolling Stone's Gregory Freeman wrote a piece about "bug chasers" and "gift-givers". "Bug chasers" are gay men looking to contract the disease, while "gift givers" are those who are more than willing to oblige. Is this the type of responsible behavior you are talking about, Moskitto? There is a reason that gay men remain the fastest growing high risk group when it comes to HIV/AIDS, and behavior has everything to do with it. Of course, there are some in the gay community that remain dedicated to their fight against AIDS. However, the overwhelming disregard for the dangers involved with permiscous sexual activity among homosexuals is alarming. The fact that some in their demographic are activity participating in "bug chasing" as a new perversion is sickening to me. I don't know about you.

Vinny Rafarino

12th August 2003, 09:32

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 12 2003, 08:23 AM

Very true, and the sad thing is, while the christian fundamentalist propaganda is trying to promote heterosexuality through homophobia, they're actually spurring the increase in cases of HIV amoungst heterosexuals, while homosexuals have become aware that it exists and are taking steps individually (eg. less promiscuity) and as a community (eg. safe sex education) to cut down infection rates, too many heterosexuals still believe it's a "gay mans plague" and I've even seen jokes in mens magazines about safe sex with the punchline "you can only catch it once" (both false, and not the issue with infection anywayanyway.)

In February, Rolling Stone's Gregory Freeman wrote a piece about "bug chasers" and "gift-givers". "Bug chasers" are gay men looking to contract the disease, while "gift givers" are those who are more than willing to oblige. Is this the type of responsible behavior you are talking about, Moskitto? There is a reason that gay men remain the fastest growing high risk group when it comes to HIV/AIDS, and behavior has everything to do with it. Of course, there are some in the gay community that remain dedicated to their fight against AIDS. However, the overwhelming disregard for the dangers involved with permiscous sexual activity among homosexuals is alarming. The fact that some in their demographic are activity participating in "bug chasing" as a new perversion is sickening to me. I don't know about you.
Bug chasers and gift givers.

You really are out of touch with reality Ghost Whiner.

My old ideal stands;

Ghost Wanker is from pluto.

Moskitto

12th August 2003, 14:30

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 12 2003, 09:23 AM

Very true, and the sad thing is, while the christian fundamentalist propaganda is trying to promote heterosexuality through homophobia, they're actually spurring the increase in cases of HIV amoungst heterosexuals, while homosexuals have become aware that it exists and are taking steps individually (eg. less promiscuity) and as a community (eg. safe sex education) to cut down infection rates, too many heterosexuals still believe it's a "gay mans plague" and I've even seen jokes in mens magazines about safe sex with the punchline "you can only catch it once" (both false, and not the issue with infection anywayanyway.)

In February, Rolling Stone's Gregory Freeman wrote a piece about "bug chasers" and "gift-givers". "Bug chasers" are gay men looking to contract the disease, while "gift givers" are those who are more than willing to oblige. Is this the type of responsible behavior you are talking about, Moskitto? There is a reason that gay men remain the fastest growing high risk group when it comes to HIV/AIDS, and behavior has everything to do with it. Of course, there are some in the gay community that remain dedicated to their fight against AIDS. However, the overwhelming disregard for the dangers involved with permiscous sexual activity among homosexuals is alarming. The fact that some in their demographic are activity participating in "bug chasing" as a new perversion is sickening to me. I don't know about you.
Annother meaning of "faggot" is a meat snack though,

Bug chasers and gift givers do exist, but I doubt they are representative of the entire homosexual community. I remember there was a topic about bug chasers on this forum a while ago, but i've lost the links now, I am very interested in HIV/AIDS news Ghost Writer, could you provide some links to articles about this aspect of the disease?

In the UK homosexual groups have called for the tracking of people infected with HIV to easy the spread. Also in the UK cases of some STDs are have been rising at upto 300% every year which is very worrying for future HIV cases which are also worrying, however the majority of the increases are in the heterosexual community with students in particular being singled out as a high risk group. The previous generation were terrified by the notorious "tombstone adverts" of 1987, but todays generation were only toddlers when they saw them. I'm not sure of the situation in the US, but in the UK there are too many people who believe it is exclusively a gay disease.

guerrillaradio

12th August 2003, 15:42

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 12 2003, 08:23 AM

Very true, and the sad thing is, while the christian fundamentalist propaganda is trying to promote heterosexuality through homophobia, they're actually spurring the increase in cases of HIV amoungst heterosexuals, while homosexuals have become aware that it exists and are taking steps individually (eg. less promiscuity) and as a community (eg. safe sex education) to cut down infection rates, too many heterosexuals still believe it's a "gay mans plague" and I've even seen jokes in mens magazines about safe sex with the punchline "you can only catch it once" (both false, and not the issue with infection anywayanyway.)

In February, Rolling Stone's Gregory Freeman wrote a piece about "bug chasers" and "gift-givers". "Bug chasers" are gay men looking to contract the disease, while "gift givers" are those who are more than willing to oblige. Is this the type of responsible behavior you are talking about, Moskitto? There is a reason that gay men remain the fastest growing high risk group when it comes to HIV/AIDS, and behavior has everything to do with it. Of course, there are some in the gay community that remain dedicated to their fight against AIDS. However, the overwhelming disregard for the dangers involved with permiscous sexual activity among homosexuals is alarming. The fact that some in their demographic are activity participating in "bug chasing" as a new perversion is sickening to me. I don't know about you.
The Rolling Stone is the epitome of a reliable source. Fuck it, they're in the system as much as anything else. Feeding kids the new "fashion". I fucking hate that rag.

Norman - your paranoid theories are incredible. Set up a website so people can laugh at you and make parodies of you like that "Americans for Purity" site Zippy posted, and has since been removed by equally paranoid state terror agents.

Alan :ph34r:

mentalbunny

12th August 2003, 15:45

Actually not all jocks are cocks (had to say that), with the whole sweatshop thing, they actually said we don't want sweatshop clothing in our colleges, etc (this is from No Logo). Interesting that, I;d always thought they were wankers through and through.

GW, your comments are just laughable. You can't segregate different orientations, simply because mostly it isn't clear cut. On a scale of 0-6, 0 being totally straight and 6 being totally gay, most people are 1 or 2, it's just the way you interpret your feelings mostly, a crush can either be physical attraction or great admiration for someone, it doesn't take much to flip from one to the other, usuall from admiration to sexual.

And are you intending on putting bis in this school? Or do they go somewhere else entirely to get the "gay" taken out of them?!!! :blink: :angry:

Moskitto

12th August 2003, 16:16

No, you do get bug chasers, but they are not what all homosexuals are, nor are they always homosexual, Many of them are infact reacting to the idea that they will be eventually be infected and just want to be infected so they no longer have to worry about being infected, they simply don't know what infection truely means, you can be double infected, you can infect other people, it's not like diabetes, you will most likely die from your infection

Ghost Writer

13th August 2003, 08:55

Annother meaning of "faggot" is a meat snack though,

How fitting. ;)

Ghost Writer

13th August 2003, 10:12

"His eyes light up as he says that the actual moment of transmission, the instant he gets HIV, will be "the most erotic thing I can imagine." He seems like a typical thirty-two-year-old man, but, in fact, he has a secret life. Carlos is chasing the bug." - From Gregory Freeman's Article Appearing in Rolling Stone Magazine entitled Bug Chasers: The Men who long to be HIV+ (http://www.rollingstone.com/features/featuregen.asp?pid=1525)

If this little quote doesn't convince you of the seedy side of the homosexual community, perhaps you should visit one of the websites listed as being commonly used by "bug chasers" in Freeman's article. I think he mentioned barebackcity.com (http://misc.barebackcity.com/welcome.asp) (Warning: very sick and disturbing, not for children, those who are easily nauseated, or those with heart conditions. Honestly, I recommend not viewing this material at all.) Go browsing through the profiles, and then tell me who needs the reality check, Comrade RAF. Fact is, reality is very sick and very twisted sometimes, no matter how some people wish to sugar coat it. Not all gays are loving couples, and some would surely fall into the category of the mentally deranged. Of course, this is true for the straight population, as well. This sort of sick shit falls into the same category as S&M, torture, and other deviant behavior. Ever seen 8mm? That movie demonstrated a side of the porn industry that I knew existed, but wished never to actually see. The main thesis of that movie was that not all monsters can be distinguished from the average person. They do not all look hideous, but they do have an excellent way of camouflaging themselves in order to act out fantasies that involve hurting other people. Since some of you truly seem to need a reality check, I recommend viewing that movie. It's one of the scariest flicks I have ever seen.

The following quote will further exemplify the point I am making:

"Year 2000. In Gay nightclubs across the U.S. men wear sleeveless shirts in hopes that someone will notice the tattoo "HIV-" blazoned across their deltoid. What is not so obvious is that the intention of such a tattoo is to attract someone who is HIV+. It is an invitation to infect through a practice known as "barebacking," having unprotected anal sex. In other words, the tattooed man is intentionally seeking an HIV+ partner to infect him with the virus. All that is left is a trip back to the tattoo artist to have that tattoo adjusted from negative to positive. Simple." -From Daniel Hill's article in alternativesmagazine.com (http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/15/hill.html)

Newsmax (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/28/210144.shtml) covered it following the Rolling Stone piece.

I also recommend the article I found at aidsscience.com called "Barebacking and bug chasers: expressions of an HIV subculture"; by Marcia L. Triunfol (http://aidscience.org/Articles/AIDScience030.asp). This article notes that there is a remarkable correlation between this behavior and methamphetamine usage. In addition it links to an article entitled "Protease Dis-Inhibitors? The Gay Bareback Phenomenon" (http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite.jsp?page=pr-02-10&doc=2098.3445), which talks about the effect that new treatments have had in shaping preceptions of the gay community with respect to HIV. Notice that the date on this dates back to 1997, prior to the 2003 expose'.

"Another prominent AIDS scientist, Dr. Douglas Richman, director of AIDS research at UCSD told the San Diego Union-Tribune that he had found evidence of "bug-chasing and found it gruesome and distressing, a complex pathology." He blamed the bug-chasing phenomenon for a pattern of mutated HIV viruses being found in gay men. A nonempirical study he supervised found that 16 percent of new HIV infections were mutant viruses and resistant to one or more of the anti-retroviral drugs used to treat HIV." - Shaky Ground
Experts Question Recent Findings of Increased Transmission of HIV; Ryan Gierach

Whatever the actual numbers are on this alarming trend, it is a behavior that must be regulated. I know this is an unpopular position to take in an era where the Supreme Court says, 'if it feels good, do it', but I am sure that states do have the right to restrict behavior that has a significant impact on the public health. If epidemiologists can provide concrete evidence that bug chasing has drastically increased the infection rates for this devasting disease, then we may very well see anti-sodomy legislation carefully worded to manuever around the recent Supreme Court decision, which struck down the state's right to legislate bedroom behavior. This time it will be written in a way that is consistent with the state's right to ensure the public health. However, if this occurs, the new laws will be challenged, possibly even reviewed by the Supreme Court. In the wake of irresponsible behavior on the part of many in the gay community, this issue is far from over, as it presents a significant risk to the general public. Evidence of strains resistant to anti-retroviral drugs is clear indication of the risk associated with such deviant behavior. How long will it be before ignorance and suicidal behavior create a air-borne version of HIV?

guerrillaradio

13th August 2003, 13:50

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 13 2003, 10:12 AM
If this little quote doesn't convince you of the seedy side of the homosexual community, perhaps you should visit one of the websites listed as being commonly used by "bug chasers" in Freeman's article. I think he mentioned barebackcity.com (http://misc.barebackcity.com/welcome.asp) (Warning: very sick and disturbing, not for children, those who are easily nauseated, or those with heart conditions. Honestly, I recommend not viewing this material at all.)
Oh, cos straight guys aren't perverted at all are they?? Moron.

Alan :ph34r:

Moskitto

13th August 2003, 14:18

Urm, I think the aim of the post was to talk about people wanting to catch HIV and people wanting to spread it. Not say how perverted homosexuals are, there is a difference between wanting to catch HIV and perverted people.

RedCeltic

13th August 2003, 15:08

People with their head securely up their ass like Ghostwriter don’t need to go around spouting off about stuff they know absolutely nothing about.

The fact is that this program has been in operation for several years, operating within a voluntary basis within two classrooms. Children in the program have found that their grades are much better when the focus of their school career is education and not defense of their sexual identity.

This is not forced segregation, they aren’t being made to wear armbands that say they are gay, nor are they being denied the same quality education the city provides for other students.

The program is not expanding into an entire school because of some mass hysteria about homosexuals in schools and a city wide forced segregation. Nothing could be farther from the truth. What is happening in fact, is that a program that has been around for several years now, has grown in such popularity, that they no longer can fit the needs of the students interested in attending it, with only two classrooms.

Ghost Writer

14th August 2003, 08:02

Please tell me exactly why you suggest that my head is up my ass, Red Celtic. It seems to me, it is those like you who wish to bury their heads in the sand, and continue to suggest that all homosexuals are loving, caring liberals that share your naivety of the world. If you understood the hate, which you so vehemently protest at all levels, like all good liberals claim, then you would recognize that the gay agenda is a movement seething with pure hate. Many behind this political movement hate themselves, hate society, and hate life. That is why it is not surprising to find a suicidal fringe group known as bug chasers and gift givers within such a movement. That someone can find their own destruction to be the ultimate form of eroticism has everything to do with their desire for nothingness. If souls exist, it is clear that these demented individuals are the walking dead, souless creatures, devoid of their distant humanity. Not surprisingly, the liberals here find themselves alligned with those who practice self mutilation, and assault the very existence of humanity. I have long known that this very same hatred lies at the heart of the socialist movement that seeks to destroy the innovative human spirit. People's hatred for themselves has a nasty habit of manifesting itself as an outright assault on the positive aspects of humanity that their personal demons shriek at. The difference between people like you and people like me lies in the fact that I actually wish to reduce the destruction caused by the motive force known as hate, while you only pretend to do this, until you find yourself ignoring the devastation when it no longer suits your agenda to actually fight the root cause.

Vinny Rafarino

14th August 2003, 08:24

Originally posted by Ghost [email protected] 14 2003, 08:02 AM
Please tell me exactly why you suggest that my head is up my ass, Red Celtic. It seems to me, it is those like you who wish to bury their heads in the sand, and continue to suggest that all homosexuals are loving, caring liberals that share your naivety of the world. If you understood the hate, which you so vehemently protest at all levels, like all good liberals claim, then you would recognize that the gay agenda is a movement seething with pure hate. Many behind this political movement hate themselves, hate society, and hate life. That is why it is not surprising to find a suicidal fringe group known as bug chasers and gift givers within such a movement. That someone can find their own destruction to be the ultimate form of eroticism has everything to do with their desire for nothingness. If souls exist, it is clear that these demented individuals are the walking dead, souless creatures, devoid of their distant humanity. Not surprisingly, the liberals here find themselves alligned with those who practice self mutilation, and assault the very existence of humanity. I have long known that this very same hatred lies at the heart of the socialist movement that seeks to destroy the innovative human spirit. People's hatred for themselves has a nasty habit of manifesting itself as an outright assault on the positive aspects of humanity that their personal demons shriek at. The difference between people like you and people like me lies in the fact that I actually wish to reduce the destruction caused by the motive force known as hate, while you only pretend to do this, until you find yourself ignoring the devastation when it no longer suits your agenda to actually fight the root cause.
I think I just heard mass singing of showtunes!!! Watch out, here comes the gay agenda!!

Ghost Writer

14th August 2003, 08:40

Very funny. However, I don't think that the actual political movement is benign as the gay stereotype that you are eluding to, Comrade RAF. We must differentiate between the Hollywood portrayal of gays, as inaccurate as blackface depiction of blacks, and the reality of the matter. We must also recognize that the gay agenda is a political movement, which is heavily in favor of censorship and curtaling the rights guaranteed in the Constitution, and is not representative of most homosexuals.

sliverchrist

15th August 2003, 23:46

its already been said, this is a temporary solution, and not a very good one at that.

its tuck-tail-and-run tactics, and that just won't work.

its a crock that homosexuals have to put up with what they do in most schools, but the fact is that they have to bear it, because with out that suffering, they won't be able to achieve anything.

"the way to be peace is at the sick...if you stop now, you shall have no peace."

i for one would like to help in whatever ways i could ( a joint effort between everyone, is the most assured path to an end to homophobia ) i am just still looking to find out how.

question, how did we get into the subject of sexuality? things like that, along with HIV, and bug chasers etc. only server to distance heterosexuals from homosexuals furhter, because now everyone who believes it will be scared shitless. i'm not saying that such occurances do not happen, but to call it a culture unto itself is very liable.

we should remember that we all have our dark sides, and that they prevail occasional, and that if we judge quickly, or harshly, it is typically just us succumbing to our dark angles again.