socialism & immigration (related to the Dutch SP)

[Revy]

Article here (http://www.newstatesman.com/europe/2008/12/socialist-party-socialism). It's a terrible article. It's saying that the Dutch SP is successful because of opposition to large-scale immigration. But it goes further, it says British socialism can't become popular without taking the same position. :cursing:

I don't know if what they say about the Dutch SP is true. But the Dutch SP shouldn't be taking that position.

[ZeroNowhere]

"Give up a single principle or a single particle of a principle, whether for votes or for ease, and you are gone, irretrievably gone."
-- Daniel De Leon

There are more ways that that applies to the Dutch SP than just this, mind.

[Q]

You opened a thread about this some time ago. This was my reply (http://www.revleft.com/vb/dutch-socialist-party-t94735/index.html?p=1288568#post1288568):

I think you're refering to "Gastarbeid & kapitaal", a pamflet writting in the early 1980's when they were still very Maoist. If I remember correctly (it has been a while since I read it) it "analyses" that migrant workers are a problem for the Netherlands and calls for giving migrant workers money to leave the country. While it is no longer to be found on their website (sp.nl (http://sp.nl)) it can still be found by googling around a bit (I don't know if a translation exists). The party never refuted the pamflet, thusly it can be assumed the party still holds these stances.

I wouldn't say that the party is racist though. It is however nationalist and chauvinist. In the European constitution referendum in 2005 for example they played on the mood of people by creating the impression the Netherlands would be "wiped out" by for example this poster:

http://www.sp.nl/nieuws/actie/grondwet/eurokaart_324.jpg

A second example is that before the unions raised the slogan "equal pay for equal work" the SP had the position that Polish migrant workers should be under severe restrictions (like only a few thousand would be able to enter the Netherlands each year) to "protect" jobs for Dutch workers.

A third example is the socalled "passport affair" in which the rightwing Party for Freedom (of which Geert Wilders is the chairman) was making a fuss out of the fact that a Maroccan got to be a minister. The SP was very much silent throughout this matter, because they fear to lose voters if they spoke out against the party of Geert Wilders.

The SP, currently the third party in the Netherlands in both seats in parliament (25 out of 150) and membership (about 50 000 members), has this stance due to two main handicaps:
1. Its lack of a international tradition. The party has its roots in a Maoist split that occured in 1965 when they splitted away from the Stalinist CPN. It never had any international outlook. Only now, due to events, they're looking towards other parties, like Die Linke in Germany and the (Maoist) PvdA from Belgium. But this remains limited to speakers on congresses and conferences really. It furthermore has an arrogant attitude because they are the biggest "new left" party in Europe currently and positions itself as being the "teacher" for other new left parties.
2. Its lack of any form of class analysis. At the end of the 1980's they dropped all references towards "Marxism-Leninism" (read: Stalinism) politically, but with it they also dropped any form of class analysis. As a result they've turned more and more towards populism. Nationalism and chauvinism are a consequence of these political stances (or better: lack thereof).

Despite all this, the SP is currently still the crystallisation point of the left in the Netherlands; everyone who considers him/herself to be on the left, looks almost automatically towards the SP. Furthermore the SP is still an active force in the class struggle, although this has been sharply diminishing over the last few years as they're more and more posing itself as a "respectable" coalition partner for Labour and the Christian-Democrats.

Lots of stuff will happen for the SP in the coming period if the Italian PRC is any indication.

[Q]

So what, the Dutch ruling class want the SP to adopt chauvanist positions so it can defend capitalism for them?

Basically, yes they do look forward to that.

[Sasha]

on this moment my biggest beef with the SP isn't the position imigration anymore (they have a better position than other left-wing party's) but their atack on the fundaments of the abortian law.
they already take & always took chauvenist white male privelege positions and it seems its getting worse with the more seats they get.

[Wanted Man]

Yeah, I also replied to the earlier thread. I'll read this article later, but if its premise is that "the SP are successful because they oppose(d) immigration", this is evidently false. For many people, the SP are actually a very valid socialist option against neo-liberalism, because they are the only major party to criticise it. Even for the people who are not consciously anti-capitalist, they are still one of the parties that get a lot of protest votes, the other one being the far-right PVV.

Psycho: what about their stance on abortion, then? I've never heard of that before.

[Sasha]

this is their official stance in their program


De SP staat achter de huidige regelgeving over abortus. Het is een emotionele beslissing die door de betrokkenen goed overwogen gemaakt moet worden. Hiervoor is in ieder geval goede informatie nodig, ook over mogelijke alternatieven zoals adoptie. Verder horen vrouwen op ieder moment van het proces af te kunnen zien van behandeling en moeten de mensen die werken in de klinieken hen die ruimte bieden. Het is een maatschappelijke verantwoordelijkheid ongewenste zwangerschappen zoveel mogelijk te voorkomen. Goede voorlichtingsprogramma�s moeten worden geboden, vooral ook in de bovenbouw van de basisschool en de lagere klassen van het middelbaar onderwijs. Voorbehoedsmiddelen moeten in het zorgverzekeringspakket worden opgenomen, zodat er geen financi�le drempel is voor het gebruik van deze middelen.

wich looks reasonble but is already paying more lip-service to the fundies than it takes an stance for feminist rights.
you only have to take a look at the program of d66 (left-liberals) to see that the SP takes the far more chauvinst stance


D66
Aan het einde van de jaren zestig van de 20e eeuw werd pleitten steeds meer mensen voor legalisering van de bestaande abortuspraktijk. Vrouwen vonden dat zij zelf over deze ingreep moesten kunnen beslissen. D66 heeft zich hier steeds achter geschaard. Met name D66-Tweede Kamerlid Anneke Goudsmit was een pleitbezorgster van het standpunt 'abortus ja, tenzij'.
Nadat een initiatiefvoorstel van PvdA en VVD in de Eerste Kamer was verworpen, werd in 1981 wel een wetsvoorstel van het kabinet-Van Agt/Wiegel aangenomen. Het recht op abortus was een feit.
Hoewel de in 1981 tot stand gekomen wet niet in alle opzichten bevredigend is, vooral vanwege de verplichte bedenktijd, is het mede aan D66 te danken dat het recht op abortus is vastgelegd. Ook vandaag de dag zet de partij zich in voor het behoud van dit zelfbeschikkingsrecht.

but worse is that recently they sided with the christian fundamentalists giving them an mayority to pas an law that expands the required "retink" time.
an law that is only there to reduce the amount of abortions by making the time window that an abortion is possible smaller and more importantly to prevent people from country's where abortion is illegal from traveling over to have an abortion here.

[Wanted Man]

Ah right, the reconsideration time. That's pretty fucked-up. If you force a woman to "consider" having an abortion for a week, it also gives those people around her a week to coerce her out of having it.