Disney movies with a progressive message

[Dimentio]

Well, I at least think this was surprisingly revolutionary and brave of a leading female character in Disney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsYOPnopNYk

But then this is not a normal Disney movie either.

[Wanted Man]

But then this is not a normal Disney movie either.
One of the last good ones, though. I don't think there is much else to choose from. Bambi shows men destroying the forest and killing the deer, but I don't think progressives should necessarily be against hunting. There is Robin Hood, but even Disney could hardly turn him into a supporter of exploitation and oppression... Pocahontas shows the colonisation of America and the racism from the settlers.

Not entirely related, but one interesting Disney film was "The Black Cauldron". They made it to take some of the profit from the D&D fad, but they basically disowned it after that for a long time. Even now, they just show it with even more censorship of the content (nudity, scary imagery and killings were already removed before). I thought it was a good movie though.

By the way, another interesting aspect from the Hunchback: Quasimodo fools himself into believing that despite his physical appearance, he can make Esmeralda love him. But in the end, obviously the brave knight Phoebus gets the girl, and Quasi learns to live with it. It's not related to politics at all, but it just occured to me.

[cop an Attitude]

Disney is notorious for being racist, sexist and classist but they have made a handful of progressive movies too. Mulain, Bambi, and The Hunchback being the most popular. But for every Mulian, there is a Dumbo (racist crows), Lion King (birth right by kings, racists hyenas, classist to the hyenas), Tarzan (racist, all white cast in Africa) or Little Mermaid (sexist for the use of her body rather than her speech). I think Disney likes to shake it up a bit because from time to time, progressiveness can sell. Also look at that gypsy, do most females look like that? For that matter, think of a black character in a Disney movie(besides that gypsy), you can't, there are none. I know it may seem like its nitpicking but these are children’s movies, they view the world in different eyes than adults. With the hypercomercialized icons and blatant stereotypes it can build simpleminded consumers for the future. "we have no obligation to make history, we have no obligation to make art, we have no obligation to make a statement, to make money is our only objective"- Michael Eisner through an internal Disney memo.

[Wanted Man]

That's pretty true, unfortunately. The Eisner quote is interesting, considering that during his stint, some of the best animated movies were made. So he was definitely successful at making money for Disney, as it was on the brink of collapse before he came in. But by the end of his career at Disney, things really changed for the worse and he had to leave.

By the way, not many people know this, but Scar, in the Lion King, actually planned to be elected into the White House! http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/nader (old political flash movies ftw)

[Psy]

That's pretty true, unfortunately. The Eisner quote is interesting, considering that during his stint, some of the best animated movies were made. So he was definitely successful at making money for Disney, as it was on the brink of collapse before he came in. But by the end of his career at Disney, things really changed for the worse and he had to leave.

Yet it was during a revival of the animation industry for example Warner Brothers Animation really took off during that period as well, this is when the Simpsons came onto the scene.

[scarletghoul]

tlWZZSD4irM
"You let one ant stand up to us, and they all might stand up! Those “puny little ants” outnumber us a hundred to one. And if they ever figure that out… THERE GOES OUR WAY OF LIFE! It’s not about food. It’s about keeping those ants in line."

[GPDP]

Even now, they just show it with even more censorship of the content (nudity, scary imagery and killings were already removed before)

Whoa, what.

Shit like that, in MY Disney movies? Never thought they'd do that.

How do they know they removed that stuff, though? Were there leaks of the cut scenes, or did they just talk about them?

[Dimentio]

Well, Disney is racist and sexist, compared to Soviet cartoons from the 80;s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGv7IF2XKa8

[LOLseph Stalin]

You know, in several Disney movies there's hidden sexual references, like in The Little Mermaid when it has a certain male body part.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Pixar films are generally better (like A bugs life, pictured above).


Pixar films are great. Most of them are in my top rankings for my favorite movies believe it or not. Wow! I sound like a geek. I just can't resist that Dory.

[cleef]

Disney is notorious for being racist, sexist and classist but they have made a handful of progressive movies too. Mulain, Bambi, and The Hunchback being the most popular. But for every Mulian, there is a Dumbo (racist crows), Lion King (birth right by kings, racists hyenas, classist to the hyenas), Tarzan (racist, all white cast in Africa) or Little Mermaid (sexist for the use of her body rather than her speech). I think Disney likes to shake it up a bit because from time to time, progressiveness can sell. Also look at that gypsy, do most females look like that? For that matter, think of a black character in a Disney movie(besides that gypsy), you can't, there are none. I know it may seem like its nitpicking but these are children’s movies, they view the world in different eyes than adults. With the hypercomercialized icons and blatant stereotypes it can build simpleminded consumers for the future. "we have no obligation to make history, we have no obligation to make art, we have no obligation to make a statement, to make money is our only objective"- Michael Eisner through an internal Disney memo.

i can think of quite a few black charcters in the disney movies...although they are generally portrayed in a negative way.

The crows from Dumbo (lazy, stupid etc)

Sunflower from Fantasia (servant)

and probably the most obvious 'Thursday' from the book 'Mickey Mouse and the boy thursday' ...
here's a link to the book http://www.robhribar.com/mmbt.html

[Wanted Man]

Yet it was during a revival of the animation industry for example Warner Brothers Animation really took off during that period as well, this is when the Simpsons came onto the scene.
True. But they wouldn't have made it through alive if The Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin and the Lion King had not been qualitatively (not regarding their political aspects, obviously) brilliant.


Whoa, what.

Shit like that, in MY Disney movies? Never thought they'd do that.

How do they know they removed that stuff, though? Were there leaks of the cut scenes, or did they just talk about them?
I read that in the Wikipedia article. Given the film's content (even after being censored, there is still a lot of imagery that can be scary for kids), it's no wonder that Disney pretended that it didn't exist for about ten years. I always thought it was pretty nice, though.


Notice that it is generally the new, post-walt Disney movies that have become slightly more progressive (in a sanitary way).

Walt was a racist, anti-semitic anti communist, who turned in many of his own artists to the McCarthyites.

Pixar films are generally better (like A bugs life, pictured above).

Still, Disney is generally un-progressive through-out the 90's, and to this very day.

If you can get it, read "How to read Donald duck"
http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Donald-Duck-Imperialist/dp/0884770230
Interesting, about Donald Duck. Although this specifically deals with the stories published in Latin America, it's not surprising that Disney would employ artists to make Donald Duck stories that are propaganda for the "contras". Of course, the stories by Barks and the ones who came after him tend to be pro-capitalist as well, but not so nakedly reactionary. I remember one story in which Scrooge burns down a whole African village because they won't sell him land, this is portrayed in a negative light. Much later, he gets stalked by a zombie who wants to give him a voodoo doll.


Wasn't that rubbishy Tsarist chauvanist film 'Anastasia' a Disney film? (either way I don't know many Disney films which aren't a glorification of feudalism or capitalism).
Dreamworks, I think? There was a thread about it recently: http://www.revleft.com/vb/children-should-interpret-t92416/index.html

Most Disney films basically take either feudalism or capitalism for granted, and tend to portray the upper class positively. But which ones do you think actively glorify it?

[cop an Attitude]

i can think of quite a few black charcters in the disney movies...although they are generally portrayed in a negative way.

The crows from Dumbo (lazy, stupid etc)

Sunflower from Fantasia (servant)

and probably the most obvious 'Thursday' from the book 'Mickey Mouse and the boy thursday' ...
here's a link to the book http://www.robhribar.com/mmbt.html

Oh, I meant a black human. Yes they are often hyenas, crows, monkeys, dogs ect. but oddly never humans.

[Psy]

True. But they wouldn't have made it through alive if The Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin and the Lion King had not been qualitatively (not regarding their political aspects, obviously) brilliant.

Actually the event that really revived the industry was the creation of the the Fox Network and its rise in the early 90's. Fox Kids broke the stagnation of the Saturday morning block, suddenly Disney found itself competing with the likes of Batman the Animated Series that was dominating the Saturday morning block and had to focus more on animated movies as in the early 90's Warner Brothers Animation was kicking Disney's ass on the small screen in terms of ratings.

[black magick hustla]

i think its useful to understand the relaiton of the media to culture, but i think its sometimes worrying how leftists try to imbue art with ideology. i dont watch southpark in order to look for an ideological pat in the back.

[cop an Attitude]

i think its useful to understand the relaiton of the media to culture, but i think its sometimes worrying how leftists try to imbue art with ideology. i dont watch southpark in order to look for an ideological pat in the back.

But Disney is separate from most of the media in that it targets children. Also may children's favorite movies are Disney movies. Re-watching a movie again and again might yield for some of its messages, intentional and unintentional, to be implanted in the child's mind.

[hugsandmarxism]

Disney is notorious for being racist, sexist and classist but they have made a handful of progressive movies too. Mulain, Bambi, and The Hunchback being the most popular. But for every Mulian, there is a Dumbo (racist crows), Lion King (birth right by kings, racists hyenas, classist to the hyenas), Tarzan (racist, all white cast in Africa) or Little Mermaid (sexist for the use of her body rather than her speech). I think Disney likes to shake it up a bit because from time to time, progressiveness can sell. Also look at that gypsy, do most females look like that? For that matter, think of a black character in a Disney movie(besides that gypsy), you can't, there are none. I know it may seem like its nitpicking but these are children’s movies, they view the world in different eyes than adults. With the hypercomercialized icons and blatant stereotypes it can build simpleminded consumers for the future. "we have no obligation to make history, we have no obligation to make art, we have no obligation to make a statement, to make money is our only objective"- Michael Eisner through an internal Disney memo.

Yeah, you find this crap in alot of American media geared towards children. Remember the flying monkeys from The Wizard of OZ? Clear Jim Crow depiction of black people. Institutionalized racism at its finest...

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Bambi shows men destroying the forest and killing the deer, but I don't think progressives should necessarily be against hunting. Siegmund Salzmann aka Felix Salten (the author of Bambi) was Jewish. The deer in his book were supposed to represent Jewish people and the hunters were supposed to represent the Nazis.

Incidentally, the book was translated by Whittaker Chambers, a Communist Party USA member and spy for the USSR who later became a well known anti-communist.

As for the original topic, it's a lot easier to find hidden sexual messages in Disney movies than "progressive" ones.

[Psy]

But Disney is separate from most of the media in that it targets children. Also may children's favorite movies are Disney movies. Re-watching a movie again and again might yield for some of its messages, intentional and unintentional, to be implanted in the child's mind.
They don't have to do that Disney movies are mostly highely formulaic, they have been retelling the same basic story for about a century, Disney kinda disproves the theory that the profit motive brings innovation.

[Dean]

Well, I at least think this was surprisingly revolutionary and brave of a leading female character in Disney.

But then this is not a normal Disney movie either.

Pro-humani, anti-technocratic WALL-E.

[butterfly]

Disney Music is da bomb:cool:

[butterfly]

Take jungle book for example.

[Angry Young Man]

Been absent for a long while. Saw the title of this thread and thought oh my bloody fucking jesus are you insane?
Anyone can plainly see how Disney props up reactionary values. Such as the idea of a businessman having any kind of moral code (robots).
Once more, lol

[Dimentio]

Pro-humani, anti-technocratic WALL-E.

Hahaha... is THAT what you think technocracy is XD

[Angry Young Man]

I near hurled my lunch when I heard my niece singing High School Musical songs. The lyrics are the vilest and most fascistic of any song but the German national anthem under nazi rule. I understood instantly that the age of altruism is dead, and that from henceforth, all of what is human will evaporate, leaving a small residue that can be reproduced identically on a Disney Corp. factory-line.

[Psy]

Been absent for a long while. Saw the title of this thread and thought oh my bloody fucking jesus are you insane?
Anyone can plainly see how Disney props up reactionary values. Such as the idea of a businessman having any kind of moral code (robots).
Once more, lol

The movie Robots wasn't by Disney by Blue Sky Studio for 20th Century Fox. Films done by Disney in-house tend to romanticize feudal class orders (rather then bourgeois class orders) like in Lion King, Aladdin, Emperor's New Groove and Mulan. If you want a good film the contradicts this Disney view of fedualism you should see the Japanese animated movie "The Cat Returns" where the Cat King is actually the main antagonist and is portrayed ungentlemanly and uncivilized next to Baron the hero of the film.

[Rascolnikova]

I'm with RR--Disney is regressive crap.

If you want good kid's movies, watch Miyazaki--both for craftsmanship, and for ideology.

[Angry Young Man]

I was gonna read on, but fuck it. Point one -
Bambi shows men destroying the forest and killing the deer, but I don't think progressives should necessarily be against hunting. What, as in for sport? I won't pretend to be an expert on psychology, and these are my own values, but doesn't hunting for sport encourage cruelty? BOXING, man, for outlet of cruelty.


There is Robin Hood, but even Disney could hardly turn him into a supporter of exploitation and oppression... Unless they present capitalism as the system of freedom. Which Disney are known for. Like all capitalist media companies.


Pocahontas shows the colonisation of America and the racism from the settlers And in the process, completely avoid historical fact. Trying to blame every flagrant abuse of the native Americans on the British. If I remember (I was 7 when I saw it) the Indians make peace with the settlers (save for the comically English captain). This, IMO, takes the piss out of the native Americans, given the mid-C19 genocidal policy toward them culminating in Wounded Knee, 1890.

My conclusion, 'progressive Disney' = don't make me fucking laugh/cry/snort disdainfully. Unless you mean the progress of global human genocide.
Ok that was a bit histrionic, but I'm drunk and I don't have a bf. Also, if any of my points have been made by another poster, apologies.

[Angry Young Man]

And for Cde. Sabbath, the Little Mermaid originally had a hateful, masterful and beautifully ironic ending that showed kids how to empathise - Ariel deals to become human to marry the prince, but she loses her voice. She meets the prince, but he won't marry her because he has sworn his love to Ariel the mermaid. The petty-minded sacharince bastards at Disney couldn't get around the idea that a story can have a tragic ending, so they changed it. In fact, they say the Lion King is based on Hamlet, but blah. Banish Disney's little mermaid and make a film with the real ending, unless you want vile and spoilt kids.

[Invincible Summer]

There are many interesting books on Disney from a critical cultural studies perspective. One I like is "Disney: The Mouse that Roared" by Henry Giroux.

Anyways, it's not just the overt racial stereotypes. Some say that Mulan or Pochahontas were progressive because the women were not really passive characters; however, they are still sexualized and their features are made more Anglocized.

Also, in Pochahontas, the "dumb" sailors on the colonist boat all have Scottish/Irish/English accents and grotesque facial features, whereas the "hero" John Smith has an American accent and good-looking (relative to the others) features.

Aladdin has an American accent and looks like Tom Cruise - every other character is ugly and has an accent.

The hyenas in The Lion King are all voiced by minority characters, and the accents/speech patterns show. They also live in the "ghetto" part of the land.


I could go on...

[Angry Young Man]

Do, I pray thee, Do.

I just woke up in an extremely anti-American mood. Did anyone ever issue an apology to the native American community? It's just that Americans seem rather nonchalant about their 50 years of concentrated genocide.

[Psy]

Do, I pray thee, Do.

In Beauty and the Beast the beast acts like a complete jerk yet Belle finds the gentle side of the Beast by being docile sending the message to girls that when men act like complete jerks towards them they should mostly just accept it. In the original French fairly tale (circa 1740) the Beast was far more gentlemanly despite holding Belle captive as debt for her farther sealing from him (making Belle a debt payment), making the Disney version more sexist then the original.

[Angry Young Man]

Belle brings out the non-Jewish side of the beast?

[Psy]

Belle brings out the non-Jewish side of the beast?
Opps that should be gentle

[Vendetta]

Hahaha... is THAT what you think technocracy is XD

Seemed to be more anti-fat people to me.

Edit: Wall-E that is.

[Das war einmal]

And I just thought I was watching fairy tales, meanwhile being brainwashed into a racist by watching the Lion King.

[Invincible Summer]

Do, I pray thee, Do.

I just woke up in an extremely anti-American mood. Did anyone ever issue an apology to the native American community? It's just that Americans seem rather nonchalant about their 50 years of concentrated genocide.


Not only in Disney movies, but many TV shows/cartoons/etc has the "sidekick" or "wise" character portrayed by a minority. For example, Sebastian the crab in "The Little Mermaid" has big lips and a Caribbean voice; Rafiki the mandrill in "The Lion King" is crazy and clearly supposed to be the stereotypical African shaman - and he's a baboon

[RedSonRising]

I wrote a paper examining disney princesses and their social messages to young viewers. I can post it or message it if youre interested. It got an A so don't worry it didn't totally suck :)

[DaughterJones]

There is alot of talk about mulan being alright and though it is better than the general disney crap she still needs a man to validate her. She returns a hero and her family is not truely happy until the so-called prince charming loves her.Also everyone should check out mickey mouse monopoly its a great film which is available on youtube but i cant link to it yet.

[Psy]

I wrote a paper examining disney princesses and their social messages to young viewers. I can post it or message it if youre interested. It got an A so don't worry it didn't totally suck :)
Sure, post it.

[iraqnevercalledmenigger]

There is alot of talk about mulan being alright and though it is better than the general disney crap she still needs a man to validate her. She returns a hero and her family is not truely happy until the so-called prince charming loves her.Also everyone should check out mickey mouse monopoly its a great film which is available on youtube but i cant link to it yet.

Good summary. Except you left out the best thing about Mulan: Eddie Murphy!

[Communist Theory]

Walt Disney was a rascist, sexist piece of shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSu4hOLYrXk

[Eva]

If you think about it, all Disney films actually address some pretty adult concepts (death of a parent, sexual jealousy, child abuse, imprisonment, soul-possession, insanity, sexual awakening) but all of the conflicts are solved in a bizarre deus ex machina sort of way. Evil is portrait at something that is completely external to the characters. Everything is very two-dimensional, either good or bad. Anything is possible if you believe in some sort of mystical entity. Issues are never really addressed; instead, the young male character engages in some sort of pseudo heroic feat, the bad guy dies in a dramatic and generally violent manner, and the young couple gets married and reproduces. Everybody lives happily ever after. In that sense, I think Disney movies are completely mindless, irresponsible, and completely devoid of substance.

Aside from that, Disney is pretty atrocious as a company as well. A great deal of their material is not original in any way, but instead taken or stolen from other people; leading to multiple lawsuits that they have, of course, been able to silence with all their money and influence. They have gained fame and notoriety for their "meticulous hand-drawn animations", which incidentally are mostly template based. They have been involved in multiple child and sweatshop labor scandals; and they are infamous for their sketchy hiring practices and labor-related abuses. Additionally, activist groups have complained about Disney's pollution and their monopolization over the economies of theme-park towns.

That being said, I can't really think of a single progressive Disney movie. The Brave Little Toaster? I'm not sure if that is even a Disney film per se.

[Psy]

If you think about it, all Disney films actually address some pretty adult concepts (death of a parent, sexual jealousy, child abuse, imprisonment, soul-possession, insanity, sexual awakening) but all of the conflicts are solved in a bizarre deus ex machina sort of way. Evil is portrait at something that is completely external to the characters. Everything is very two-dimensional, either good or bad. Anything is possible if you believe in some sort of mystical entity. Issues are never really addressed; instead, the young male character engages in some sort of pseudo heroic feat, the bad guy dies in a dramatic and generally violent manner, and the young couple gets married and reproduces. Everybody lives happily ever after. In that sense, I think Disney movies are completely mindless, irresponsible, and completely devoid of substance.

You have a trend that the story revolves around the status quo being broken and dividing good and evil to the forces defending the status quo are good while those trying to bring change are evil. For example Scar is evil for overthrowing the monarchy, Jafar is evil for trying take over the monarchy, the Huns (in Mulan) are evil for threatening the monarchy, Hades is evil for trying to rule Olympus, Yzma is evil for trying to take the throne from Kuzco.

[Das war einmal]

Walt Disney was a rascist, sexist piece of shit.
RSu4hOLYrXk


Oh my yes that white commander looks like a pretty sympathetic man. A real figure western children look up to

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Disney was a fascist was he not? I'm sure this is common knowledge. Anyway there is some sort of bourgeois reactionary message in each Disney film I'm sure.