American History X - Has anyone seen the movie? What can we

[black sheep.]

I liked the movie. However, the movie ends with a bunch of guys trying to end racism and keep capitalism.
Racism is a direct result of capitalism. Racism can only end if capitalism is destroyed. Does anyone agree?

[Soul Rebel]

That was such a good movie. I thought about that movie for days after i first saw it. It was so powerful- i couldnt get it out of my mind.

Overall, i think the message was loud and clear. Yeah, it might not have tackled capitalism, but the fact that it addressed racism in such a strong manner was beautiful. It had such an impact that i dont think the audience could possibly ignore what it was saying.

[Eastside Revolt]

"Hitler" is a much better and more socially relevant movie.

[Totalitarian]

"Racism is a direct result of capitalism. Racism can only end if capitalism is destroyed. Does anyone agree?"


Can "isms" be destroyed? I think not, since they are only a product of the imagination.

[truthaddict11]

this thread is more appropriate in Chit Chat or Literature someone move it

[Soul Rebel]

for racism to end all other forms of -isms would have to end. They strive off of each other and produce unique experiences of oppression for people. It the concept of intersectionality and double jeapordy. You cant have one ism without the others and you cant fight one with fighting the others. This is why it is ridiculous to say that one movement is more important than another. Until we realize that we need to get together and form one movement in which all -isms are fought then nothing could ever possibly change.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

great film, really powerful stuff

[Latin America]

Good movie but overall a good way to learn not to hate! (In one way)

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

The film is awesome. People must watch and realise that such attitudes exist in society still and this will help combat racism.

And no, racism isnt a direct result as capitalism. It existed much more aggressively in the days of Alexander The Great and way beyond that, so I don't see how you can support your statement.

[elijahcraig]

I'd say racism is a result of class struggle, not capitalism alone.

[Soul Rebel]

racism and capitalism work hand in hand. Most forms of racism began as a way to support economic needs. Racism only came into play as a way to justify what the white were doing to black slaves, for example.

all the -isms support capitalism, they keep it going. capitalism strives off of inequality. without these things capitalism could not survive.

now we do live in a world in which capitalism does produce racism, so to say that it doesnt is somewhat ridiculous.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Explain the racism in the centuries B.C. then. And you can't say slavery, because racism produced slavery, not the other way around

[Soul Rebel]

definitely not- racism developed as a way to justify the reason why slavery existed. there is always a reason why these -isms appear. they dont just form. it has to be for a specific reason why these -isms have appeared and have become a part of society.

and in case you didnt notice- i had said some/most racisms- not all. read carefully next time.

(Edited by SenoraChe at 8:19 pm on July 6, 2003)

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

No, you are wrong.

In the ancient times, racism formed due to the simple need for mankind to compete. The most simple way to say one was inferior to the other is to create the idea that it is based on appearence. And the easiest appearence criteria to pick on is skin colour.

Racism was formed due to nothing economical or social or whatever, it was formed from human nature.

Then, those races thought to be inferior were turned into slaves.

It makes sense if you think about it. They needed a way to choose slaves. It wasn't by chance that the blacks were the slaves. Racism was rife before slavery existed.

and in case you didnt notice- i had said some/most racisms- not all. read carefully next time.

That doesn't make sense. Most or some? You can't stroke those two.

[Soul Rebel]

i see what you are saying- i just choose to disagree. i believe that most or some (i say most or some because i dont know just how many. I dont know if a certain kind happened more than others or if it was a rare occurence that some occurred in the way they did. Know what i mean?) Im not saying that all racism came from economic need- im just saying that some did.

P.S- dont say that i am wrong. its a matter of opinion. i did not tell you that you were wrong so please grant me the same respect. just because i dont agree doesnt make me wrong. we are debating, that is all.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

No, it's not opinion. There can be different swings on certain things in history, but to say that slavery formed racism IS WRONG.

[Soul Rebel]

whatever. im just not going to bother responding with you anymore after this.

history is a matter of interpretation- it is not about facts. facts do exist but are interpreted differently. we do not know why these things truely started- we can only speculate. ask any historian and they will tell you the same.

(Edited by SenoraChe at 8:44 pm on July 6, 2003)


(Edited by SenoraChe at 8:45 pm on July 6, 2003)

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I know History is all about interpretation. That is the beauty of it.

But there are facts....

Hitler took over Germany,
World War One was before World War Two
Racism existed before slavery came to being

[Soul Rebel]

my statement mentions that there are facts- but can be interpreted differently. im not arguing that certain things did or did not happen- what im saying is that why they happened is never truly known. people have different ideas about what happened and why and will always argue about it- but we cannot know who is truly right.

[sickdiscobiscuit]

Racism is basically because of the human emotion of fear. Hate is evolved from fear. One only hates another because they are afraid of them. The same with racism. Greed is also stemmed from fear. Capitalism feeds off of that. Cappi's just want what they think they can not get, they will do anything to get it. Which includes racism and hatred. Everyone already knows capitalists are greedy. What I strive to achieve is a balance between love and to have no fear. My philosophy is humanism and I do believe there were many before me. Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., Che, Cesar Chavez, Jesus. We all want love and peace, and the only way to achieve this is to get rid of fear. First we must get rid of Capitalism and greed and hatred and racism.

We must be united. -matthew lathrop

[Anonymous]

There comes a point of morbid mellowing and over-tenderness in the history of society at which it takes the side even of him who harms it, the criminal, and does so honestly and wholeheartedly. Punishment: that seems to it somehow unfair—certainly the idea of "being punished" and "having to punish" is unpleasant to it, makes it afraid. "Is it not enough to render him harmless? why punish him as well? To administer punishment is itself dreadful!" with this question herd morality, the morality of timidity, draws its ultimate conclusion. Supposing all danger, the cause of fear, could be abolished, this morality would therewith also be abolished: it would no longer be necessary, it would no longer regard itself as necessary!—He who examines the conscience of the present-day European will have to extract from a thousand moral recesses and hiding-places always the, same imperative, the imperative of herd timidity: "we wish hat there will one day no longer be anything to fear!" One day everywhere in Europe the will and way to that day is now called "progress." -- Friedrich Willhelm Nietzsche


Hatred and fear are as much a part of the human psyche as love and happiness. You can never destroy them.

Why would you want to anyway?

[sickdiscobiscuit]

Why get rid of hatred and fear? Don't get rid but choose not to hate and to be afraid. When people stand up for themselves then maybe people can have a real society not based on fear and hate. One where everone can succeed and not be pushed down.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I agree.

If the people of this world do not have hatred, they will not be able to rid the world of a form of brutal enemy. Che said something like this. Hatred must exist so longas it is justified. That way, evil can be dissolved.

[Urban Rubble]

Racism a result of Capitalism ? Insane, completely insane.

Sure, Capitalism perpetuates racism, but it didn't create it.

[black sheep.]

Quote: from sickdiscobiscuit on 9:26 pm on July 6, 2003
Racism is basically because of the human emotion of fear. Hate is evolved from fear. One only hates another because they are afraid of them. The same with racism. Greed is also stemmed from fear. Capitalism feeds off of that. Cappi's just want what they think they can not get, they will do anything to get it. Which includes racism and hatred. Everyone already knows capitalists are greedy. What I strive to achieve is a balance between love and to have no fear. My philosophy is humanism and I do believe there were many before me. Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., Che, Cesar Chavez, Jesus. We all want love and peace, and the only way to achieve this is to get rid of fear. First we must get rid of Capitalism and greed and hatred and racism.

We must be united. -matthew lathrop
Racist people do not always hate thier victims.
They might love thier victims, but still view them as inferior. Also, sometimes people don't believe in mixing the races. They don't hate other races. They just don't want to breed with them. But, I think alot of that is crap. Most racists hate thier victims. Also, the motivation for racism usually is'nt fear of race mixing. It's motivated by the racist's desire to exploit the victim.
In other words, it's capitalist exploitation.

[black sheep.]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:46 pm on July 6, 2003
There comes a point of morbid mellowing and over-tenderness in the history of society at which it takes the side even of him who harms it, the criminal, and does so honestly and wholeheartedly. Punishment: that seems to it somehow unfair—certainly the idea of "being punished" and "having to punish" is unpleasant to it, makes it afraid. "Is it not enough to render him harmless? why punish him as well? To administer punishment is itself dreadful!" with this question herd morality, the morality of timidity, draws its ultimate conclusion. Supposing all danger, the cause of fear, could be abolished, this morality would therewith also be abolished: it would no longer be necessary, it would no longer regard itself as necessary!—He who examines the conscience of the present-day European will have to extract from a thousand moral recesses and hiding-places always the, same imperative, the imperative of herd timidity: "we wish hat there will one day no longer be anything to fear!" One day everywhere in Europe the will and way to that day is now called "progress." -- Friedrich Willhelm Nietzsche


Hatred and fear are as much a part of the human psyche as love and happiness. You can never destroy them.

Why would you want to anyway?
Because we don't like hatred and fear

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

We've all just been saying why hatred is needed in people.

[Rastafari]

explain the largest system of ritualized racism,then, The caste system of India. the caste of the untouchables is so specialized that certain families clean sewers, tan hide, etc.

The religion is also centered around this racism, and the society "works" because everyone has their "place"

Ganhdi wanted to keep Hinduism in place, thus continuing the caste system, which is the only reason I don't treat him quite as a God

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Do you understand the caste system?

It is not a system of racism. Every Hindu is taught to love and respect each member of each caste just as they would everyone else. The utmost respect for each individual is taught to Hindu's.

The caste system is like a class system, yes, but very much different to the type of class system we know here in the West.

Each person has a vital role to play in the wellbeing of all. Any person believing one in a lower caste is inferior is not following how the caste system is taught, and you can therefore not criticise the caste system for this.

Gandhi taught these values. That each person from each caste should be loved and respected just as one's brother is loved and respected.

I suggest you read up on the caste system properly and read the actual meaning of it from the Hindu teachings before criticising it.

[Rastafari]

your...defending...the caste system?

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I need not defend a faith millennium's old. What is my opinion worth in defending a religion followed by hundred's of millions, whilst about 4 or 5 people here criticise it?

What I am saying is you misunderstand the caste system. It is not what you think it is judging by what you have said. All I was saying was that you should read what the caste system is right from the original teachings, as this is the true meaning of it and this tells what is meant to happen.

Of course, a system such as this is easy to misunderstand, and I'm not saying that, in my opinion, it has no bad points. But what system ever created has not had down points?

[Rastafari]

as I understood it, Hinduism was founded on the basis htat the dark-skinned invaders were lesser people and needed to be fucked. But that could just be my crazy History Minor talking, too

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I'm sorry Rastafari, like you say of me, I agree with many of your points most of the time on here. However, that is garbage.

Hinduism, firstly, didn't just form through one event or through a few people. Hinduism has grown and evolves and continues to do so.

Hinduism developed from the religious practices of those who lived near the River Indus in modern day Pakistan. However Hinduism has been, and continues to be, influenced by the traditions, stories and practices of people from other parts of India and beyonds.

Thus, the faith was formed by the dark skinned people of the region who originated there. I therefore think you'll agree that it was not formed to "fuck" the dark skinned folk.

The faith was not formed to benefit any people over others. Hinduism seeks peace and happiness for all, although recognising that problems occur.

Although the caste system does teach that status is gained through occupation, it also teaches to respect each individual's contribution. Of course, as you know enough to comment on the "largest system of ritualized racism", you will know about the Varnas and the Jatis. You will also know about the functions and aspects of the Brahmins, the Kshatriyas, the Vaishyas and the Shudras. Or is it JUST the Untouchables you know about, just like everyone else who chooses to completely slaughter the system.

Besides, in India today, "Untouchability" has been abolished by law. The people, of course, still cling to their caste associationsand only over time has conflict developed. Oh how suprising it is that only when we hit our "modern" and "more civilized" society do we see that those in higher castes begin to regard those lower down as unclean and inferior. That's not a comment directed at anyone here by the way; just that hanes word: "civilised".

[Rastafari]

The caste system is an organized mess.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

It doesn't suprise me that you have no justification, evidence, or facts to back up your assumption.

[sickdiscobiscuit]

the invaders were Aryan... they were light skinned rastafari

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Indeed.

Bharat being the leader first Aryan invaders

[canikickit]

http://www.proxsa.org/inspiration/ambedkar.html

Gandhi was contrary to the idea of change.


What I am saying is you misunderstand the caste system. It is not what you think it is judging by what you have said. All I was saying was that you should read what the caste system is right from the original teachings, as this is the true meaning of it and this tells what is meant to happen.

Why is what is "meant" to happen of importance?
It is more important to take note of the result of these petty superstitions.

I care not for the opinions of these hundreds of millions who advocate superiority and a "designated path" for people on the bsis of their birth. I do not believe in "birthright", I believe in human rights.

Whether the people have corrupted things or not isn't important, it is important what is not what ought to be.


Of course, as you know enough to comment on the "largest system of ritualized racism", you will know about the Varnas and the Jatis. You will also know about the functions and aspects of the Brahmins, the Kshatriyas, the Vaishyas and the Shudras. Or is it JUST the Untouchables you know about, just like everyone else who chooses to completely slaughter the system.

I have heard of some of these divisions, and I do not need to know the details. If my memory serves me correctly, there are a certain group of people who "traditionally" end up as members of the law enforcement units, the Untouchables "traditionally" end up as the "shit cleaner uppers".

So you support this system because it is "supposed" to be about love and equality?

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I have heard of some of these divisions, and I do not need to know the details. If my memory serves me correctly, there are a certain group of people who "traditionally" end up as members of the law enforcement units, the Untouchables "traditionally" end up as the "shit cleaner uppers".

Again, I reiterate that you really should learn more about this before talking about it.

And like I said, I neither support or reject the system. I just feel it should be respected and not look so badly upon by you lot who do not know anything about it. If you know what it is, know what it has caused and know what the people who put it into practice think of it, then fine. If you know all that and then form a opinion of it equal to that of what you already have, then I will respect and debate that opinion properly. Untill then, I cannot do so.