What should we do to handle the traitors

[Revolutionary Youth]

So, comrades, here is the situation:

You all know that Vietnam used to be divided in to 2, the North is controlled by Communism, the south is controlled by a state manipulated under US. The thing was, when the North Army came down to liberate, a minority of those traitors fled to America. From then on, they continue to spit lies and try to oppose the government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in many cowardly ways.

What do you think we should do to them?

[danyboy27]

So, comrades, here is the situation:

You all know that Vietnam used to be divided in to 2, the North is controlled by Communism, the south is controlled by a state manipulated under US. The thing was, when the North Army came down to liberate, a minority of those traitors fled to America. From then on, they continue to spit lies and try to oppose the government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in many cowardly ways.

What do you think we should do to them?

leaving them alone.

[apathy maybe]

So, comrades, here is the situation:

You all know that Vietnam used to be divided in to 2, the North is controlled by Communism, the south is controlled by a state manipulated under US. The thing was, when the North Army came down to liberate, a minority of those traitors fled to America. From then on, they continue to spit lies and try to oppose the government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in many cowardly ways.

What do you think we should do to them?
Err, what with them being in a different country, what could you do with them? I mean sure, you could get all icepicky on them, but I think the yanks would get a little annoyed if it happened too many times.


Oh, and why are they traitors? Whom are they traitors to? As revolutionary socialists, we don't support countries, or the idea of countries. We are all about destroying class, country, capitalism, and bringing about a "free" society (with differing values of free, depending on who you talk to).


(Not to mention that North Vietnam, and all of Vietnam now, is not and was not ever "Communist" in the sense of a "class-less state-less society, the stage of human history beyond capitalism and 'socialism'" (where socialism is defined narrowly, as the "transitional stage").)

[Dust Bunnies]

Vietnam is a Socialist Country gone wrong, a shit hole. 'Nam does not concern me.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Vietnam is a Socialist Country gone wrong, a shit hole. 'Nam does not concern me.

Dude, there is no need to be offensive here!

[Revolutionary Youth]

Err, what with them being in a different country, what could you do with them? I mean sure, you could get all icepicky on them, but I think the yanks would get a little annoyed if it happened too many times.


Oh, and why are they traitors? Whom are they traitors to? As revolutionary socialists, we don't support countries, or the idea of countries. We are all about destroying class, country, capitalism, and bringing about a "free" society (with differing values of free, depending on who you talk to).


(Not to mention that North Vietnam, and all of Vietnam now, is not and was not ever "Communist" in the sense of a "class-less state-less society, the stage of human history beyond capitalism and 'socialism'" (where socialism is defined narrowly, as the "transitional stage").)

I agree with you that we're not the Communist that is supposed to be like in the Communist Manifesto. It is so obvious, isn't it?

[Comrade Cuyler]

What do you think we should do to them?

Pluck their eyes out and skull fuck them.

[Dust Bunnies]

Send them to the gulags.

[danyboy27]

eat their babies

[Revy]

I agree with you that we're not the Communist that is supposed to be like in the Communist Manifesto. It is so obvious, isn't it?

Have you actually read The Communist Manifesto? I don't know if your government allows you to see it.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Have you actually read The Communist Manifesto? I don't know if your government allows you to see it.

Of course we can read it. My family is a Communist tradition family, whose members are all in the Party, and of course, we must read it to get the idea of Communism. How can you suppose to stay in the Communist party without knowing its concept?:)

[Robert]

Revolutionary Fried Chicken, anyone?

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:UsVrM5D8iK8gpM:http://noodlepie.typepad.com/blog/images/kfc-front.jpg

[Dimentio]

So, comrades, here is the situation:

You all know that Vietnam used to be divided in to 2, the North is controlled by Communism, the south is controlled by a state manipulated under US. The thing was, when the North Army came down to liberate, a minority of those traitors fled to America. From then on, they continue to spit lies and try to oppose the government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in many cowardly ways.

What do you think we should do to them?

Just ignore them. Their children won't sit and hate you for all eternities.

In fact, if you do something against them in the USA, you will 1) attract the animosity of the USA, 2) give them more reasons to hate you. I think neither of these two options are attractive.

[danyboy27]

Revolutionary Fried Chicken, anyone?

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:UsVrM5D8iK8gpM:http://noodlepie.typepad.com/blog/images/kfc-front.jpg

colonel von giap chicken!!

[Revy]

Of course we can read it. My family is a Communist tradition family, whose members are all in the Party, and of course, we must read it to get the idea of Communism. How can you suppose to stay in the Communist party without knowing its concept?:)

Well, have you heard of Truong Gia Binh who has VND2.6 billion ($200 million)?

Interesting how a "communist" country can have such a wealthy man in existence. While one-third of Vietnam is below the poverty line. I'd say there's still a revolution to be had, comrade.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Just ignore them. Their children won't sit and hate you for all eternities.

In fact, if you do something against them in the USA, you will 1) attract the animosity of the USA, 2) give them more reasons to hate you. I think neither of these two options are attractive.

Thanks for the suggestion, comrade. Yeah, I think you are right, it's better that way!

[Revy]

I agree with you in this point, comrade, we Communist Youth don't like him either. He's just a corrupted official, I really don't like it when we Communist Youth have to work real hard to fund ourselves while he's just sitting there eating on the work of the people.

Well, I believe you that there are many like you in your organization and I give you my solidarity, in building a socialist Vietnam, where inequality won't exist. Welcome to the forum.:)

[Dust Bunnies]

We need to work together to change those deformed states, and bring Socialism, your generation of youth party members can be it.

[Revolutionary Youth]

who's the young boy and can you tell me the contain of your mail, I don't really get it.

[danyboy27]

.

[Revolutionary Youth]

its you man, your gonna be taken away man

May I ask: "Why is that?"

[scarletghoul]

what?

[spartan]

What should we do with traitors?

Well now that depends on what you mean by traitors now doesn't it?

I mean if they were prominent members of our government who were aiding our enemies by giving top secret information then I would send them straight to the hangman.

If they were just ex-pats who mouth off to the press about how bad it is back in the homeland (even though they don't live there anymore and probably have no way of knowing properly) then I would simply ignore them as to take some sort of action against them would show that what they say may have some truth in it as we wouldn't have reacted to it otherwise.

[Revolutionary Youth]

O yeah, I completely forgot! Truong Gia Binh is not a bad guy, everyone, I was mistaken between him and a guy in my local, who also has the surname "Truong". Forgive my foolishness! Terribly sorry!

[Revolutionary Youth]

IP adress will sort it out man.

I'm sorry okay!

[Dimentio]

You could edit your posts, man. Don't apology when you can rub away things which could get you into trouble.

[BobKKKindle$]

Comrade, spetnaz21 is just being offensive - I don't know what the situation in your country is like, but based on what I do know about the internet in Vietnam I don't think you're going to have any problems, there's no problem with saying critical things about certain leaders or members of the economic elite and it's actually good to see that you have criticisms. Please, don't be afraid or upset. Generally most of the people in this part of the forum, OI, are here because they're not mature enough for the main part of the forum - why don't you go create a new thread in the politics section so everyone else can have a sensible discussion?

[Revolutionary Youth]

No, I have to apologize, really. Because i was too careless when I said that. I didn't read the information carefully and made bad judgement.

[danyboy27]

i am deeply sorry, i was not expecting to be taken seriously, sorry for that bad behavior.

i never posted any information to the communist party.

sorry sorry sorry.

[Revolutionary Youth]

It's okay, spetnaz21 . The wrong one is still me because of carelessness and ignorant.
I'm happy because you don't afraid to talk the right things, comrade! :)

[scarletghoul]

Wow, you are a very virtuous person...

And despite any problems with the Vietnam government, Vietnam will always be a great country for pwning the USA

[danyboy27]

Wow, you are a very virtuous person...

And despite any problems with the Vietnam government, Vietnam will always be a great country for pwning the USA


agreed

[spice756]

There is nothing communist about Vietnam they allow private property and free-market.

There is no free healthcare or education.There less state run and profit is in charge.Has for traitors you mean capitalist or rich? Simple same has Cuba like it or leave and move to the US.

[danyboy27]

There is nothing communist about Vietnam they allow private property and free-market.

There is no free healthcare or education.There less state run and profit is in charge.Has for traitors you mean capitalist or rich? Simple same has Cuba like it or leave and move to the US.


?

[spice756]

Don't believe me fine than:(I will allow the person who made this thread post what he or she thinks of Vietnam .

You want to believe there is no private property fine.
You want to believe there is no free-market fine.
You want to believe there is free healthcare or education fine.

You believe it is all state run fine.

[danyboy27]

Don't believe me fine than:(I will allow the person who made this thread post what he or she thinks of Vietnam .

You want to believe there is no private property fine.
You want to believe there is no free-market fine.
You want to believe there is free healthcare or education fine.

You believe it is all state run fine.


i just didnt quite understand why you posted that, since the main topic was about south vietnamese dissents.

itas not about believe you or not.

[Junius]

And despite any problems with the Vietnam government, Vietnam will always be a great country for pwning the USA

If you ignore six million Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian deaths (ignoring, of course, those disabled from the war or born with mutations via the USA's use of chemicals) compared to 58,000 (largely conscripted) American deaths (and another 58,000 veterans whom committed suicide after the war, and 350,000 wounded), the millions of refugees from the conflict and the strengthening of all working classes to their respective ruling classes, and of course, we should forget that it was the USA whom originally funded the anti-colonial struggle against the French, then yes it was a great victory for the working class indeed.

[ernie]

If you ignore six million Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian deaths (ignoring, of course, those disabled from the war or born with mutations via the USA's use of chemicals) compared to 58,000 (largely conscripted) American deaths (and another 58,000 veterans whom committed suicide after the war, and 350,000 wounded), the millions of refugees from the conflict and the strengthening of all working classes to their respective ruling classes, and of course, we should forget that it was the USA whom originally funded the anti-colonial struggle against the French, then yes it was a great victory for the working class indeed.
I realize you're being sarcastic, but I don't get your point :blushing:. Could you explain what you mean?

[Bud Struggle]

If you ignore six million Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian deaths (ignoring, of course, those disabled from the war or born with mutations via the USA's use of chemicals) compared to 58,000 (largely conscripted) American deaths (and another 58,000 veterans whom committed suicide after the war, and 350,000 wounded), the millions of refugees from the conflict and the strengthening of all working classes to their respective ruling classes, and of course, we should forget that it was the USA whom originally funded the anti-colonial struggle against the French, then yes it was a great victory for the working class indeed.

But in the end it looks like Vietnam isn't Communist any more so I would guess the Americans won.

A lot of dead people for something that was going to happen anyway.

[Dr Mindbender]

If Vietnam is communist i am vietnamese.

[#FF0000]

I realize you're being sarcastic, but I don't get your point :blushing:. Could you explain what you mean?

She's saying whether Vietnam or the US won, the working class didn't gain anything either way. It was just ruling class vs. ruling class.

[Dust Bunnies]

Aye, there isn't much of a difference between a North or South victory...

[Bud Struggle]

Aye, there isn't much of a difference between a North or South victory...


Though at the time--it was rather important. :)

[synthesis]

All this talk of a "degenerated worker's state" is ridiculous. The Vietnamese Communists did the best they could under the circumstances; the problem was not with their ideology but with the conditions of Vietnam before and after the war.

It is an enormous disservice to the communist agenda to simply state that Vietnam isn't "real communism" and, from there, to simply wash your hands of it.

"Real" communism requires a level of technological advancement - the mechanization of labor - that can only be accomplished through industrialization and modernization. In effect, every successful socialist revolution can be considered a step on the path towards the state of "advanced capitalism" upon which "real" communism is predicated - look at the conditions of every country in which a successful socialist revolution has occurred and find me a single example of one that was fully modernized before the revolution. (You can't.)

All of the socialist revolutions were successful in establishing political and economic autonomy (eventually - the Soviet Union was as imperialist as anyone else) and relieving the conditions which relegated their countries to vassals of the West, but the countries themselves were simply not advanced enough to support "real" communism.

My basic point is this: Theory adapts to reality, not the other way around.

[spartan]

But in the end it looks like Vietnam isn't Communist any more so I would guess the Americans won.

A lot of dead people for something that was going to happen anyway.

Sad but true.

The only thing the Vietnamese resistance achieved was allowing Vietnam to follow whatever path they chose to take their own way and without America forcing them to do whatever they wished.

Vietnam is similar to China now with a self-described socialist market economy.

[scarletghoul]

But still, because of the vietnamese victory, there is at least prominent socialist ideology in vietnam. Unlike if the USA had won, it would no doubt have all been suppressed and people like the thread starter would be much scarcer, along with all communism in vietnam. A bad regime that uses the label of communism is better than a capitalist regime that suppresses communism, because it at least make basic socialist principles acceptable and often encourages them.

[RGacky3]

She's saying whether Vietnam or the US won, the working class didn't gain anything either way. It was just ruling class vs. ruling class.

You wanna know who won in Veitnam? China.

[ernie]

She's saying whether Vietnam or the US won, the working class didn't gain anything either way. It was just ruling class vs. ruling class.
Well, Vietnam had virtually no working class. In that sense, it didn't gain anything. The exploited classes of Vietnam won a lot, though. How can we compare Vietnam now to what it would have been like under US imperialism?

[Revolutionary Youth]

Well, Vietnam had virtually no working class. In that sense, it didn't gain anything. The exploited classes of Vietnam won a lot, though. How can we compare Vietnam now to what it would have been like under US imperialism?

Actually, the term "classes" can not be applied in Vietnam. We have actually no classes since most the people all started from crash of war, the war against the god damn US Imperialism. Hardly any time that a rich man looks down on a poor one, *unless he is the one who has in mind the idea of capitalism*. The private sector and public sector also play a major role in the difference between rich and poor in Vietnam, if you prefer to live by faith and devotion, the public sector welcomes you! If your main objective is to be rich, then there is no other place than private sector. Nevertheless, the influence of the Communist Party is almost everywhere: both in private and public. :)

[Led Zeppelin]

Actually, the term "classes" can not be applied in Vietnam. We have actually no classes


The private sector and public sector also play a major role in the difference between rich and poor in Vietnam, if you prefer to live by faith and devotion, the public sector welcomes you! If your main objective is to be rich, then there is no other place than private sector.

You basically refuted yourself in the same post, well done.

[Bud Struggle]

You basically refuted yourself in the same post, well done.

In the end there is no such thing as class--it's a common misconception. We are all human beings--to seperate us is to mistake us.

[RGacky3]

"Real" communism requires a level of technological advancement - the mechanization of labor - that can only be accomplished through industrialization and modernization. In effect, every successful socialist revolution can be considered a step on the path towards the state of "advanced capitalism" upon which "real" communism is predicated - look at the conditions of every country in which a successful socialist revolution has occurred and find me a single example of one that was fully modernized before the revolution. (You can't.)


I hear that a lot, but I never hear how, why do you need a level of technological advancement to achieve a free, equal society with communal property? Thats a cop out. Since when does lack of technology demand a centralized state?


The Vietnamese Communists did the best they could under the circumstances; the problem was not with their ideology but with the conditions of Vietnam before and after the war.


The problem is, always, whenever you centralize power, whenever you give out unaccountable authority, it does'nt matter how well intentioned the people were, its going to be corrupted, Vietnamese communists did very well, they were very self-sacrificing and they really wanted to do the best, but when they follow the Leninist model, it will always turn out the same way.


In the end there is no such thing as class--it's a common misconception. We are all human beings--to seperate us is to mistake us.

Yes there is tom, there are some people that control companies, some people that are bosses, and other people that work for bosses, and don't control anything. Thats what class is. To say there is no such thing as class, is to say that everyone right now, has equal say in the economy, and has equal economic power and equal standard of living, which is untrue. Get your head out of the clouds.

I can say that Santa Clause is real as much as a want, does'nt make it true.

[synthesis]

I hear that a lot, but I never hear how, why do you need a level of technological advancement to achieve a free, equal society with communal property?

It is not my opinion; it is historical reality.

If technological advancement was not crucial to Marx's "end-state" communism, we would see it happening already.

And I'm not saying that we aren't - but technology is the crucial factor.

Without technology, the basic necessities of society require too much mind-numbing physical labor for every last person to voluntarily submit to it - that's where the centralized state comes in. On the other hand, with technological advancement, the field work of five hundred manual laborers can be matched in productivity by a single machine.

There are automated 18-wheelers which can replace truckers and self-checkout stands that are replacing Wal-Mart wage slaves as we speak; these are only a few examples out of dozens. In capitalism, they're out of a job, but in communism, they're free to do more stimulating work.

This notion that everyone will spontaneously "see the light" of communism and embrace altruism is patently ridiculous. People need clothes, food, and other necessities, and when the processes for creating these goods aren't automated to some degree, you're gonna have to force some people to do things for everything to get done.

You dig?


Since when does lack of technology demand a centralized state?

Since... well, every historical example I can think of. It's pretty universal, at least for the last thousand years or so.


The problem is, always, whenever you centralize power, whenever you give out unaccountable authority, it does'nt matter how well intentioned the people were, its going to be corrupted, Vietnamese communists did very well, they were very self-sacrificing and they really wanted to do the best, but when they follow the Leninist model, it will always turn out the same way.

And what do you think Leninism is?

The adaptation of Marxism to pre-industrial conditions.

Again, theory adapts to reality far more often than reality adapts to our theories.

[synthesis]

You basically refuted yourself in the same post, well done.I think what he was getting at is that Vietnam may not be as rigidly and holistically divided into "bourgeois" and "proletarian", at least in the traditional sense of the dichotomy.

To be bourgeois, you must employ proletarians - correct me if I'm wrong. In a society with circumstances such as Vietnam, it is feasible to "get rich" without directly exploiting another's labor.

I've never been there, but I've been to other so-called "Third World" countries where the bourgeois-proletarian dichotomy barely exists, if at all. There are certainly places where the social position of the proletariat is largely filled by those who would be termed the "petit bourgeoisie" in the traditional sense of their relationship to means of production.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

So, comrades, here is the situation:

You all know that Vietnam used to be divided in to 2, the North is controlled by Communism, the south is controlled by a state manipulated under US. The thing was, when the North Army came down to liberate, a minority of those traitors fled to America. From then on, they continue to spit lies and try to oppose the government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in many cowardly ways.

What do you think we should do to them?

Who cares? They can say whatever they want, 'Nam is back in the cappie fold.

You don't honestly believe they could threaten your state like Stalin feared Trotsky, do you?

[Revolutionary Youth]

I think what he was getting at is that Vietnam may not be as rigidly and holistically divided into "bourgeois" and "proletarian", at least in the traditional sense of the dichotomy.

To be bourgeois, you must employ proletarians - correct me if I'm wrong. In a society with circumstances such as Vietnam, it is feasible to "get rich" without directly exploiting another's labor.

I've never been there, but I've been to other so-called "Third World" countries where the bourgeois-proletarian dichotomy barely exists, if at all. There are certainly places where the social position of the proletariat is largely filled by those who would be termed the "petit bourgeoisie" in the traditional sense of their relationship to means of production.

Thank you, comrade. You get the point! :D

[spice756]

I still do not know why Vietnam moved from state run to a market economy.It does NOT have social programs like free education and free healthcare.The poverty may be going down and more people may have money.But now you got the rich and poor.





===========

Historically, Vietnam has been an agricultural civilization based on wet rice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_rice) cultivating.

The Vietnam War destroyed much of the economy of Vietnam. Upon taking power, the Government created a planned economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy) for the nation. Collectivization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization) of farms, factories and economic capital was implemented, and millions of people were put to work in government programs. For a decade, united Vietnam's economy was plagued with inefficiency and corruption in state programs, poor quality and underproduction and restrictions on economic activities and trade. It also suffered from the trade embargo from the United States and most of Europe after the Vietnam War. Subsequently, the trade partners of the Communist blocs began to erode. In 1986, the Sixth Party Congress introduced significant economic reforms with market economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_economy) elements as part of a broad economic reform package called "đổi mới (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doi_moi)" (Renovation). Private ownership was encouraged in industries, commerce and agriculture.

Vietnam achieved around 8% annual GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product) growth from 1990 to 1997 and continued at around 7% from 2000 to 2005, making it the world's second-fastest growing economy. Simultaneously, foreign investment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_investment) grew threefold and domestic savings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings) quintupled. Manufacturing, information technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_technology) and high-tech industries form a large and fast-growing part of the national economy. Vietnam is a relative newcomer to the oil business, but today it is the third-largest oil producer in Southeast Asia with output of 400,000 barrels per day (64,000 m³/d). Vietnam is one of Asia's most open economies: two-way trade is around 160% of GDP, more than twice the ratio for China and over four times India's.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam#cite_note-14)

Vietnam is still a relatively poor country with an annual GDP of US$280.2 billion at purchasing power parity (2006 estimate)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam#cite_note-15). This translates to a purchasing power of about US$3,300 per capita (or US$726 per capita at the market exchange rate). Inflation rate was estimated at 7.5% per year in 2006. Deep poverty, defined as a percent of the population living under $1 per day, has declined significantly and is now smaller than that of China, India, and the Philippines. [17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam#cite_note-16)

As a result of several land reform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform) measures, Vietnam is now the largest producer of cashew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashew) nuts with a one-third global share and second largest rice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice) exporter in the world after Thailand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand). Vietnam has the highest percent of land use for permanent crops, 6.93%, of any nation in the Greater Mekong Subregion. Besides rice, key exports are coffee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee), tea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea), rubber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber), and fishery products. However, agriculture's share of economic output has declined, falling as a share of GDP from 42% in 1989 to 20% in 2006, as production in other sectors of the economy has risen. According to the CIA World Fact Book, the unemployment rate in Vietnam is 4.3%.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam#cite_note-17) Among other steps taken in the process of transitioning to a market economy, Vietnam in July 2006 updated its intellectual property legislation to comply with TRIPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPS). Vietnam was accepted into the WTO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization) on November 7, 2006. Vietnam's chief trading partners include Japan, Australia, ASEAN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations) countries, the U.S. and Western European countries.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam

[Plagueround]

In the end there is no such thing as class--it's a common misconception. We are all human beings--to seperate us is to mistake us.

Which is why we place such an emphasis on breaking down the class distinctions that our current mode of production has created.

[spice756]

It is hard to find out what is going on with all the US propaganda.

It seems China has alot control over Vietnam.

[spice756]

Which is why we place such an emphasis on breaking down the class distinctions that our current mode of production has created.

True just look at reform China was doing having a mix state run and private sector.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Actually, the public healthcare and education services are very cheap. Like me for example, I've studied in Vietnamese state schools for 10 years and the fee for each year was extremely cheap, only USD $50-100 (for the good students and the poor, sometimes it is totally free!). For healthcare service, if you buy a student health insurance (which, of course, very cheap), you can go to any public healthcare service with a very low price (sometimes free!). Oh, and don't for get about me and my organization: the Communist Youth Union-the right hand of the Communist Party, we actually have many voluntary community services to bring education to the poor. We are founded to serve the people and the community,especially the youth (thus, we never dream of high wages!). :closedeyes:

[Killfacer]

Actually, the public healthcare and education services are very cheap. Like me for example, I've studied in Vietnamese state schools for 10 years and the fee for each year was extremely cheap, only USD $50-100 (for the good students and the poor, sometimes it is totally free!). For healthcare service, if you buy a student health insurance (which, of course, very cheap), you can go to any public healthcare service with a very low price (sometimes free!). Oh, and don't for get about me and my organization: the Communist Youth Union-the right hand of the Communist Party, we actually have many voluntary community services to bring education to the poor. We are founded to serve the people and the community,especially the youth (thus, we never dream of high wages!). :closedeyes:

The UK is more socialist than that. We get free education and health care and we don't HAVE to volounteer for the frankly orwellian sounding communist youth union.

[Revolutionary Youth]

The UK is more socialist than that. We get free education and health care and we don't HAVE to volounteer for the frankly orwellian sounding communist youth union.

The communist youth union's functions are not just voluntary things, there are many things that we can do (and obviously that you don't know the effects of these voluntary "orwellian sounding" things). They are all listed in our regulation (sadly, we don't have an English version). You know naught of Vietnam's history, so don't jump to conclusion just yet! I will not question the motives of our Party since I know that they always have a good reason to do that! :closedeyes:

[Jazzratt]

I will not question the motives of our Party since I know that they always have a good reason to do that! :closedeyes:

Why not? Surely part of being the ruling party in any nation that wishes to call itself socialist means they are answerable to the public and it is therefore a public duty to question them?

[danyboy27]

healthcare is completly free in canada, nothing to pay at all.


i find it verry odd for a socialist country that you have to pay for it.

[Honggweilo]

healthcare is completly free in canada, nothing to pay at all.


i find it verry odd for a socialist country that you have to pay for it.

In Canada, the various levels of government pay for about 70% of Canadians' health care costs most social-liberal healthcare systems dont cover everything and you still have to pay quite an ammount to finance it. In the Netherlands healthcare was financed through holding back a portion of your wage each month (until it was privatized).

50 dollars per year, even considering price/wage compensation, for fully covering healthcare in a thirdworld country is immensely cheap.

Average vietnamese workers wage is 63$ per month (756$ per year) and the full covering health insurance is 50$ per year. my income is around 950$ per month ($11400 per year) and my (basic) health insurance is 1400$ per year .

In Vietnam you pay 8% of your yearly income. In the Netherlands it consists of 12% of my yearly income.

And i live in a first world country with still a reasonable degree of social security... I would hardly call that "exploitive". And that's even besides considering free eduction, free social services and price control.

[Honggweilo]

To get the facts straight about the Vietnamese political/economical system, i suggest people read the article "VIETNAM: not a market economy!" published in the Greenleft Review;

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2003/525/30924

[Led Zeppelin]

I think what he was getting at is that Vietnam may not be as rigidly and holistically divided into "bourgeois" and "proletarian", at least in the traditional sense of the dichotomy.

I know, but he's wrong.

Replace bourgeoisie with bureaucracy.


To be bourgeois, you must employ proletarians - correct me if I'm wrong.

That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Vietnam is clearly a class-society.

To suggest it isn't is just absurd and I'm not going to even bother debating it.

What's your (or his) point? That Vietnam has actually reached the communist phase of development?

[danyboy27]

the point is, in canada its 100% free.
not in vietnam.

[Honggweilo]

the point is, in canada its 100% free.
not in vietnam.
I just pointed out that its not...

and you seem to forget that Vietnam has one of the lowest GNP's in the world, had a devasted economy/infrastructure after the war, has only been briefly in the process of industrializing, is an exploited 3rd world nation. Vietnam isnt completly self-suffcient and the price of importing market pharmaceuticals comes at an expense

[Revolutionary Youth]

I just pointed out that its not...

and you seem to forget that Vietnam has one of the lowest GNP's in the world, had a devasted economy/infrastructure after the war, has only been briefly in the process of industrializing, is an exploited 3rd world nation. Vietnam isnt completly self-suffcient and the price of importing market pharmaceuticals comes at an expense

You understand us the most, comrade! :)

[danyboy27]

I just pointed out that its not...

and you seem to forget that Vietnam has one of the lowest GNP's in the world, had a devasted economy/infrastructure after the war, has only been briefly in the process of industrializing, is an exploited 3rd world nation. Vietnam isnt completly self-suffcient and the price of importing market pharmaceuticals comes at an expense


i fucking live in canada, never paid for nothing, wheter i had a job or not.

[Mindtoaster]

I will not question the motives of our Party since I know that they always have a good reason to do that! :closedeyes:

The people must always question and always criticize the ruling party of *ANY* country: socialist, capitalist, or otherwise if they want to improve conditions.

[danyboy27]

The people must always question and always criticize the ruling party of *ANY* country: socialist, capitalist, or otherwise if they want to improve conditions.

go tell that to the survivor of tiananmen square.

[RGacky3]

go tell that to the survivor of tiananmen square.

I think you missed his point.

[danyboy27]

edited for my pride

[Dust Bunnies]

edited out for his pride

Interesing topic.

[Revolutionary Youth]

We can question them but that part is done by the veteran members, and before we question anything, many discussions are to be made. Also, my I remind you that we are a government organization, we do not criticize our former Party in public or any media! In my current position, we follow orders as we are told (your voice has more power as your rank increases). :sleep:

[Dust Bunnies]

May I ask, what is life like in vietnam, from when you wake up to when you go to sleep.

[spice756]

i fucking live in canada, never paid for nothing, wheter i had a job or not.

It is how it is paid for .In Canada you pay high tax every year and go to the store and pay tax on every $1 and they take tax on every pay you get at work to have all this free stuff.But really it is not free because you pay high tax in different ways to fund it.

In Cuba it is state run and the government pay you for working in their stores or Factories.They can pay you $50 and get all this free stuff or pay you $100 and you pay for it.

In Vietnam you pay $50 or $100 for it or they take it off your work pay and get it for free.Look at health insurance you pay x about a year for it or you replace health insurance and call it government tax.

It does not better how the government tax it:lol: like pay of your work ,a monthly pay ,pay going to store ,government insurance tax.There has be some money going in to fund it.

Also the Canadian government has pass reform bills if you have health insurance in your work place you get better healthcare.And eye care is not free like before.There is alot reform bills now passing bringing the Canadian system like the US.

You want a nice room and TV in the hospital you pay for it.

[spice756]

most social-liberal healthcare systems dont cover everything and you still have to pay quite an ammount to finance it. In the Netherlands healthcare was financed through holding back a portion of your wage each month (until it was privatized).

.

The problem is to have all this free stuff people have to pay very high tax to the government and people do not like giving government their money they work for.

But they hav no problem paying health insurance it is the high government tax they do not like.

It is are nice conservative media in Canada that paint the NDP has robbers and than we wonder why we have shitty government stuff.You want free stuff or good schools and healthcare you pay high tax for it.You can't have free stuff and low tax not going to work.

[Revolutionary Youth]

The problem is to have all this free stuff people have to pay very high tax to the government and people do not like giving government their money they work for.

But they hav no problem paying health insurance it is the high government tax they do not like.

It is are nice conservative media in Canada that paint the NDP has robbers and than we wonder why we have shitty government stuff.You want free stuff or good schools and healthcare you pay high tax for it.You can't have free stuff and low tax not going to work.

Obviously that you know nothing about Vietnam! Our income tax is among the softest income tax in the world! I'm tired of all these pointless accusation! :cursing:

[spice756]

Obviously that you know nothing about Vietnam! Our income tax is among the softest income tax in the world! I'm tired of all these pointless accusation! :cursing:

I'm talking about Canada .If Vietnam has low tax that is why.

The point is any country if you want free stuff and good government service you have to pay high tax.How else is the government going to fun it.

[Honggweilo]

I'm talking about Canada .If Vietnam has low tax that is why.

The point is any country if you want free stuff and good government service you have to pay high tax.How else is the government going to fun it.
wow ummm, a collectively planned economy maybe?

[danyboy27]

It is how it is paid for .In Canada you pay high tax every year and go to the store and pay tax on every $1 and they take tax on every pay you get at work to have all this free stuff.But really it is not free because you pay high tax in different ways to fund it.

In Cuba it is state run and the government pay you for working in their stores or Factories.They can pay you $50 and get all this free stuff or pay you $100 and you pay for it.

In Vietnam you pay $50 or $100 for it or they take it off your work pay and get it for free.Look at health insurance you pay x about a year for it or you replace health insurance and call it government tax.

It does not better how the government tax it:lol: like pay of your work ,a monthly pay ,pay going to store ,government insurance tax.There has be some money going in to fund it.

Also the Canadian government has pass reform bills if you have health insurance in your work place you get better healthcare.And eye care is not free like before.There is alot reform bills now passing bringing the Canadian system like the US.

You want a nice room and TV in the hospital you pay for it.



can i see those reforms bill please?
verry curious about it.

[PostAnarchy]

I think that depends on how the traitors oppose us: if it is peaceful only then that should be monitored carefully but I think tolerated. If it is by force or even the insinuation of force then I will completely support the right of revolutionaries and workers to defend themselves by in the world of Malcolm X "any means necessary."

[Killfacer]

We can question them but that part is done by the veteran members, and before we question anything, many discussions are to be made. Also, my I remind you that we are a government organization, we do not criticize our former Party in public or any media! In my current position, we follow orders as we are told (your voice has more power as your rank increases). :sleep:


And you said i was wrong for calling it Orwellian. This is dispicable, it would seem vietnam has become some kind of hell hole where you are brought up to question nothing and simply take orders from people of a higher rank. This isn't socialism, this is disgraceful. They have raped you of your critical faculties, taken away any advantages of socialism (free healthcare, free education) and driven the idea that following orders is the most important thing.

You can make excuses about the GDP but to me, this sounds like socialism gone awry to say the least.

[danyboy27]

on another hand, maybe they cant offord free healthcare for everyone.
but i agree with killfacer on the freedom of speech issue.

maybe you think we are overreacting, but try to understand us, we have complete freedom of saying whatever we want here, we can ctiticize every form of governement or country and not get any penality for that.

to us, westerner, not being able to criticize the governement unless you rank up seem pretty pretty odd, we are getting used to the rank up system to get money, or XP in call of duty 4 to get a new weapon, but not to speak out.

[Jazzratt]

We can question them but that part is done by the veteran members,

What if you wish to criticise the veteran members?


and before we question anything, many discussions are to be made.

Surely the discussion in any socialist nation with a state apparatus should be done directly and the discussion held between a representative of the state organ and ordinary people without the need for such go-betweens and delaying tactics.


Also, my I remind you that we are a government organization, we do not criticize our former Party in public or any media!

Why not?! Internal criticism must exist, why must it be behind closed doors? What are you afraid of that it must be hushed up in public?


In my current position, we follow orders as we are told (your voice has more power as your rank increases). :sleep:

Following orders without question is not the mark of a socialist mind.

[synthesis]

Following orders without question is not the mark of a socialist mind.

It would be more accurate to say that it is not the mark of an anarchist mind. There is nothing about following orders (as long as they're from other socialists) that is inherently un-socialist, unless you think you have a better reason than the rest of this forum as to why you have the exclusive right to define what makes a "socialist mind".

Maybe it's not the mark of a mind like yours, and that's perfectly fine (and I agree with you) but history says otherwise.

[spartan]

Following orders without question is not the mark of a socialist mind.

It is if you are a Stalinist or any other type of authoritarian Socialist.

[Jazzratt]

It would be more accurate to say that it is not the mark of an anarchist mind. There is nothing about following orders (as long as they're from other socialists) that is inherently un-socialist, unless you think you have a better reason than the rest of this forum as to why you have the exclusive right to define what makes a "socialist mind".

Maybe it's not the mark of a mind like yours, and that's perfectly fine (and I agree with you) but history says otherwise.

A critical approach to power has been taken (even if only in rhetoric) by pretty much every socialist in history. I'm not saying that it is socialist to automatically reject orders or refuse to follow them but simply to ask questions - think about why you are being ordered. Hell, critical thinking is such a basic part of most mindsets it's incredibly jarring to hear someone put such faith in something. It's like a religion.

[synthesis]

A critical approach to power has been taken (even if only in rhetoric) by pretty much every socialist in history.

Doesn't that little parenthetical refute the rest of your argument?


I'm not saying that it is socialist to automatically reject orders or refuse to follow them but simply to ask questions - think about why you are being ordered.

He didn't say anything about not thinking critically. He said, "we follow orders as we are told"; to you, that means "we follow orders without question." If the President of his Party told him to go find a pregnant woman and burn her at the stake, do you really think he'd do it?


Hell, critical thinking is such a basic part of most mindsets it's incredibly jarring to hear someone put such faith in something. It's like a religion.

Perhaps it is more that those higher than him in the hierarchy have never given him an order that deeply contradicts his personal values.

Ever think about that?

It's rarely prudent to assume a shortage of reason and rationality simply because someone has started at the bottom of a hierarchy and has it in mind to "rise through the ranks."

Is that the anarchist ideal? No, but this guy seems to think that this system works pretty well in his circumstances, and it would be wise to fully appreciate those circumstances before you criticize his mentality.

[Jazzratt]

Doesn't that little parenthetical refute the rest of your argument?

Well, I would argue that their socialism existed primarily in their rhetoric, so no.


He didn't say anything about not thinking critically. He said, "we follow orders as we are told"; to you, that means "we follow orders without question." If the President of his Party told him to go find a pregnant woman and burn her at the stake, do you really think he'd do it?

No, but why does it have to get that extreme before someone refuses to follow orders. What do you think "we follow orders as we are told" means, then?


Perhaps it is more that those higher than him in the hierarchy have never given him an order that deeply contradicts his personal values.

Perhaps. Perhaps he could even clarify for himself.


It's rarely prudent to assume a shortage of reason and rationality simply because someone has started at the bottom of a hierarchy and has it in mind to "rise through the ranks."

That's not why I am assuming that reasoning is lacking, simply because there is none evidenced in the statement "we follow orders as we are told".


Is that the anarchist ideal? No, but this guy seems to think that this system works pretty well in his circumstances, and it would be wise to fully appreciate those circumstances before you criticize his mentality.

Lots of things that are bad work pretty well in a lot of circumstances. THis doesn't elevate them beyond criticism.

[synthesis]

No, but why does it have to get that extreme before someone refuses to follow orders.Again, I agree with you, but not on the point that this mentality is inherently un-socialist. As a poster above noted, "authoritarian socialism" is not an oxymoron; it is the adaptation of socialism to circumstances of social instability, often societies that have become acclimated to authoritarianism in general.

Obviously, there's a lot more to it, but the point is that ideology and mentalities never exist in a vacuum.


What do you think "we follow orders as we are told" means, then?Perhaps it means that if he received an order that was contrary to his ethical convictions, he could leave the organization if he so chose, but that in general, when those at the top of the hierarchy give directives, they're not interested in what the "newbies" think about it.

Again, that's not personally appealing to me, and it is certainly contrary to anarchism, but not socialism.


Perhaps. Perhaps he could even clarify for himself.I hope he does. But this isn't really about him specifically, at least not for me. (No offense.) This is about your exclusive right, or lack thereof, to the definition of a "socialist mind."

Again, you could have said his statement was "not the mark of an anarchist mind," and it would have been accurate if irrelevant. I found your statement offensive not only because it was incorrect, but also because it smacks of a larger tendency of affluent Westerners, happening to mostly be white males, who seek to claim the right of defining socialism as another one of their exclusive privileges.

It also evinces the idealism running rampant on this board, in both its philosophical and colloquial forms. "If everyone just accepted our libertarian philosophies," people say, "the world would be a better place." That's idealism and it ignores the role of circumstances in creating and transforming ideologies.


That's not why I am assuming that reasoning is lacking, simply because there is none evidenced in the statement "we follow orders as we are told".Again, that assumption tells us more about you than it does about him.


Lots of things that are bad work pretty well in a lot of circumstances. Maybe you should be more focused on understanding and transforming the circumstances which facilitate these "bad things" rather than attacking those whose worldviews have been shaped by these circumstances.


THis doesn't elevate them beyond criticism.Fine - but don't criticize it because it's "un-socialist," unless you can specifically show how every socialist in history agrees with you. Criticize authoritarianism on its own faults, not on its relationship to your personal set of philosophies which you have bound together and called "socialism" (or whatever) in exclusion of all others' definitions of the same.

[Revolutionary Youth]

And you said i was wrong for calling it Orwellian. This is dispicable, it would seem vietnam has become some kind of hell hole where you are brought up to question nothing and simply take orders from people of a higher rank. This isn't socialism, this is disgraceful. They have raped you of your critical faculties, taken away any advantages of socialism (free healthcare, free education) and driven the idea that following orders is the most important thing.

You can make excuses about the GDP but to me, this sounds like socialism gone awry to say the least.


Criticizing is to be made among insiders of the Union, minority follows majority. And I said, from my current position, that means high school students, we follow orders since we are freshmen, we find no harm in following those orders. If you don't want to obey, you can do so, as long as you have a good reason in doing that, otherwise people will think that you are a dummy! Nobody said you have to follow them mindlessly like the Nazis (geez, do I even have to say this?)! When you are a college student and an experienced member, then yes, you can raise your voice (if you think your arguments stand, that is)!

Killfacer, you know naught about us, use your brain before splitting out those shameful accusations of yours!

Also, I've just joined the union for 1 year, I cannot explain to you fully how the system works (again, read our regulation, if you can read Vietnamese that is!). Read it before accusing me or my organization for anything!

[danyboy27]

Criticizing is to be made among insiders of the Union. Do you not understand the phrase "not in public or any media"? And I said, from my current position, that means high school students, we follow orders since we are freshmen. When you are a college student and an experienced member, then yes, you can raise your voice (if you think your arguments stand, that is)!

Also, I've just joined the union for 1 year, I cannot explain to you fully how the system works (again, read our regulation, if you can read Vietnamese that is!). Read it before accusing me or my organization for anything!

do you have the right to say in public: the chairman and the prime minister are 2 fucking assoles.

if you can do that, you got free speech.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Maybe, if you have good reasons to say so! (But we don't use vulgar language!) Otherwise, you'll earn yourself a free ticket to jail for false accusations!

[spice756]

Maybe, if you have good reasons to say so! (But we don't use vulgar language!) Otherwise, you'll earn yourself a free ticket to jail for false accusations!

Can people protest? Can the news or talk-radio say things about government like bad roads , not enough hospitals ,not good care in hospitals ,lack of money to schools so on.

Can the people or talk-radio say things about the government .




Criticizing is to be made among insiders of the Union, minority follows majority. And I said, from my current position, that means high school students, we follow orders since we are freshmen, we find no harm in following those orders


Can you go to communist party and say we need better roads ,more hospitals , government housing for poor ,welfare money for poor, daycare subsidies by government ?

Is the internet ,TV ,books ,radio ,media so on censorship or can they say what ever?

Can the people on the street say what ever?

If you don't like your communist party can you set up your own communist party so on election day there more than one communist party to vote?

Do you have opposition party?

[danyboy27]

ok

[Bud Struggle]

Maybe, if you have good reasons to say so! (But we don't use vulgar language!) Otherwise, you'll earn yourself a free ticket to jail for false accusations!

All you need to know right there. :)

[Killfacer]

Maybe, if you have good reasons to say so! (But we don't use vulgar language!) Otherwise, you'll earn yourself a free ticket to jail for false accusations!

In England i can call Gordon Brown a fucking cock munching piece of shit all i want. This is my point, your freedom is restricted and you all belong to scary sounding youth unions and national commitees.

[Bud Struggle]

You can see why people are wary of Communists. Freedom is a high price to pay for economic stability. This guy is the real thing saying what real Communists (or neo-Communists) say in real time in the real world. It's what I saw in the SU before the fall, same with Eastern Europe.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Can people protest? Can the news or talk-radio say things about government like bad roads , not enough hospitals ,not good care in hospitals ,lack of money to schools so on.

Can the people or talk-radio say things about the government .



Of course! I said you can have free speech as long as you have a backup reasons for that. Because if you don't, nobody will ever listen to your speech crap. You have proof, then you can say anything! We are Asian, we choose our speech carefully before saying in public! Have you ever heard that those Vietnamese American (traitors) tried to make the people raise against our government in the middle of our Capital? No? Do you know the result? Nobody bothered listen to their stupid accusation craps and they automatically dissolved! I nearly laughed my guts out when I heard that! I also saw a group of peasants and workers went a long way from the countryside to the city to protest about the corrupted authority in their local, we listened to them and dealt with the corrupted guy severely.




Can you go to communist party and say we need better roads ,more hospitals , government housing for poor ,welfare money for poor, daycare subsidies by government ?

Is the internet ,TV ,books ,radio ,media so on censorship or can they say what ever?

Can the people on the street say what ever?

If you don't like your communist party can you set up your own communist party so on election day there more than one communist party to vote?

Do you have opposition party?

All the things you say are completely POSSIBLE, they are all the basic things in any country nowadays ! You think our country is like a second Nazi state huh?

We don't have an opposition party. To the people, one party is good enough! I've never heard of setting up a second communist party, but why bother do that? We don't find anything wrong in our government.

In short, people can say whatever they want, what matters is that: will anybody listen to their crap?! ;)

[RGacky3]

If there ris an entity, that decides how much freedom to give people, its not free, there is no freedom.

Sure the Communist Party allows a lot of freedom, but the fact that its up to them to allow it shows its not free.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that the United States is soo much better. But still, its not free.

[Dust Bunnies]

I'm sorry but your country doesn't have as much freedom as the rest of the world. It is a step above a 1984 enviroment though.

[Jazzratt]

I'm sorry but your country doesn't have as much freedom as the rest of the world. It is a step above a 1984 enviroment though.

Bollocks. It might not have many freedoms but less than the rest of the world? Less than Zimbabwe? Less than Saudi Arabia? Are you sure?

[Revolutionary Youth]

In England i can call Gordon Brown a fucking cock munching piece of shit all i want. This is my point, your freedom is restricted and you all belong to scary sounding youth unions and national commitees.

Say what you will, not all of us belong to the communist youth union, you can choose not to join if you don't want to. How am I suppose to get you to understand this? Maybe you should make a tour to Vietnam and see how we work! "The communist youth union is the largest political-social force of the youth of Vietnam. Led by the Communist party of Vietnam." Now, from all over Vietnam, we have 6,1 million members.

Here is one of the regulation of the Communist Youth Union:

§iÒu 3:
QuyÒn cña ®oµn viªn:
1. Yªu cÇu tæ chøc §oµn ®¹i diÖn, b¶o vÖ quyÒn lîi hîp ph¸p cña m×nh, ®*îc gióp ®ì vµ t¹o ®iÒu kiÖn ®Ó phÊn ®Êu tr*ëng thµnh.
2. ứng cö, ®Ò cö vµ bÇu cö c¬ quan l·nh ®¹o c¸c cÊp cña §oµn .
3. §*îc th«ng tin, th¶o luËn, chÊt vÊn, phª b×nh, biÓu quyÕt, ®Ò nghÞ vµ b¶o l*u ý kiÕn cña m×nh vÒ c«ng viÖc cña §oµn.

*sorry about that, it seems that the font does not match!*
Translation:
Rights of a member in the Communist youth union:
1. Able request for organizing of Union representative, protect his/her own legal rights, he/she is helped to fight on and grow up.
2. Able to make suggestions and able to vote for the members in the hierachy of the Union.
3. Able to spread information, discuss, interrogate, criticize, vote, suggest or keep to own self the opinions about the activities of the Union.



As you can see, no one's forcing us anything! We have our freedom! We are trusted by many youth of Vietnam, even they are not in the Union!:lol:

[danyboy27]

what happen if you are not member of the party and criticizing the governement injustly?

btccause i think everyone in the world should have that right.

[Revolutionary Youth]

Yup, we can(but not many though!). The ones who criticize the government injustly are often the newspapers who don't belong to the Communist party.;)

[Robert]

Because if you don't, nobody will ever listen to your speech crap.How can you go to jail for false accusations if "nobody will ever listen" to your "speech crap"?

Or do you mean, "no one will ever listen ... except the police"?


You think our country is like a second Nazi state huh?

Not exactly. Try again.

This guy has got to be a capitalist plant with a wry sense of humor. He's too much of a Stalinist stick figure to be real.

[spice756]

This guy has got to be a capitalist plant with a wry sense of humor. He's too much of a Stalinist stick figure to be real.


No vietnam has a mixed economy some state run and some private sector.Now I don't know how much is state run like if it 20% ,40% or 60% or what.

And I don't know if the party has put profit in command or if it is going to get corrupted by capitalism:scared:

[Robert]

I don't say Vietnam is Stalinist. I say he is.

[Revolutionary Youth]

How can you go to jail for false accusations if "nobody will ever listen" to your "speech crap"?

Or do you mean, "no one will ever listen ... except the police"?
Yup, you got the idea! :laugh::lol: No citizen will listen AND you may also go to jail if you are living in the 70s! Ha ha ha ha!:laugh:



Not exactly. Try again.

This guy has got to be a capitalist plant with a wry sense of humor. He's too much of a Stalinist stick figure to be real.

Sense of humour, I have! Thank you for recognizing it! :laugh:

[Dimentio]

Don't believe me fine than:(I will allow the person who made this thread post what he or she thinks of Vietnam .

You want to believe there is no private property fine.
You want to believe there is no free-market fine.
You want to believe there is free healthcare or education fine.

You believe it is all state run fine.

No speako dego.

[Jazzratt]

No speako dego.

I presume that by "dego" you mean "daygo" - a racist term for spanish people. I realise that you're quoting blackadder but, in this context, you're being racist.

Consider this a verbal warning.

[spice756]

I presume that by "dego" you mean "daygo" - a racist term for spanish people. I realise that you're quoting blackadder but, in this context, you're being racist.

Consider this a verbal warning.

Who is blackadder ? I think he is laughing at me has I did not have all my facts on Vietnam .

[Jazzratt]

Who is blackadder ? I think he is laughing at me has I did not have all my facts on Vietnam .

Blackadder is a succesful british comedy program about a bloke who is witty, cunning and a bit of a bastard. It's great I recommend it heartily.

Regardless of why he was mocking you the word daego (or however the hell you spell it) is just not kosher on this site.

[Killfacer]

I would say that Spice has more in common with Baldric than Blackadder anyway.

[Bud Struggle]

Ouch! :lol:

[danyboy27]

I would say that Spice has more in common with Baldric than Blackadder anyway.


i dont get it....

[Killfacer]

i dont get it....


Baldric is really stupid.

I apologise for saying that though as it was unfair. I was on a bit of a rampage slagging people off.

[danyboy27]

you know, spice is not a bad guy, he just got trouble to be understood.

[spice756]

I was irritable that day that is why.