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Guerrilla22
28th November 2008, 21:55
HAVANA – Russia's president visited old Cold War ally Cuba on Thursday, spending hours with President Raul Castro on the final leg of a Latin America tour designed to increase Moscow's profile in a region long dominated by the United States.
Dmitry Medvedev arrived in Havana from Venezuela, where he met with socialist President Hugo Chavez and agreed to help the oil-rich South American country start a nuclear energy program.
Russian officials deny that Medvedev's four-nation trip to Latin America is meant to provoke the United States, but the voyage included meetings with Washington's staunchest opponents in the region. Chavez and Medvedev met aboard a Russian warship docked in a Venezuelan port ahead of joint military exercises.
The visit comes at a time when Russia is angry at U.S. plans to build a missile-defense system in eastern Europe.
The upper chamber of the Czech Parliament on Thursday approved a deal to accept a U.S. missile defense installation. Russia fiercely opposes the plans, saying U.S. military installations in former Soviet satellites threaten its security.
In Cuba, Raul Castro did not greet the Russian president at the airport, but he was by his side just a short time later, accompanying Medvedev to the monument of independence hero Jose Marti and to a recently inaugurated Russian Orthodox Church.
The pair also met privately, then spoke again surrounded by top advisers as part of "official conversations" at the storied Palace of the Revolution, discussing the global financial crisis and other topics.
Medvedev told reporters that Russia is stepping up its political ties in Latin America and said Moscow must aggressively seek to shore up its economic position in the region.
"In some ways we are only now beginning full-fledged, full-format and, I hope, mutually beneficial contacts with the leaders of these states," he said, speaking of Latin America as a whole. "We should not be shy and fear competition. We must bravely enter the fight."
The 77-year-old Castro — who succeeded his brother Fidel as president in February — served as Cuba's defense minister for nearly five decades and enjoyed an excellent relationship with Soviet defense officials. A steadfast communist who visited the Soviet Union often, Castro has long been thought of as a great admirer of Moscow and its policies.
The Soviet Union was Cuba's chief source of aid and trade until its disintegration in 1991, and relations between the Russian federation and the island soured. Former Russian President Vladimir Putin visited in 2000 to strengthen ties but reminded Havana it should pay its Soviet-era debt.
Shortly after Putin's visit, Moscow closed a Cold War-era electronic spying facility in Lourdes, just outside Havana, and it has since been converted into an elite computer sciences university.
Russia's ambassador to Cuba suggested last week that his country is interested in offshore oil exploration in deep Cuban waters in the Gulf of Mexico and taking part in a Venezuelan effort to refurbish a Soviet-era refinery in the port city of Cienfuegos.
There was no word on whether Medvedev would see the 82-year-old Fidel Castro, who has not appeared in public since undergoing emergency intestinal surgery in July 2006.
Suffering from an undisclosed illness in a secret location, the ex-president has continued to release essays several times a week. He also met with Chinese President Hu Jintao, who came to Cuba as part of his own tour of Latin America last week.
Earlier Thursday, Medvedev toured a Russian destroyer in Venezuela, one of two large Russian warships that arrived for training exercises in the first deployment of its kind in the Caribbean since the Cold War.
Chavez saluted the captain, and joked: "We're going to Cuba!" The warships will hold joint exercises with Venezuela's navy next week.

Russia pledged to help Venezuela with oil projects and building ships, while Chavez's government signed a deal to buy two Russian-made Ilyushin Il-96 passenger jets. Moscow also plans to develop a peaceful nuclear cooperation program with Venezuela by the end of next year.
While in Caracas, Medvedev also met with presidents Evo Morales of Bolivia and Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega and said Russia is ready to consider participating in a socialist trade bloc led by Chavez. Medvedev also visited Peru and Brazil.

Revy
28th November 2008, 22:28
No problem with seeking allies. Especially since Cuba discovered that oil recently.

BraneMatter
29th November 2008, 00:34
Considering all the military and political intervention and meddling by the U.S. all along Russia's borders, I don't see how we have any right to be upset when the Russians trade in our hemisphere and seek political allies in South America and the Caribbean.

And what if Cuba installed defensive missiles like the ones we now have in Poland? We complain about Russia's Black Sea Fleet and the base at Sevastopol in the Crimea, which has been there since 1783, but have no problem with our own base at Guantanamo!

spice756
29th November 2008, 04:02
Considering all the military and political intervention and meddling by the U.S. all along Russia's borders, I don't see how we have any right to be upset when the Russians trade in our hemisphere and seek political allies in South America and the Caribbean.

And what if Cuba installed defensive missiles like the ones we now have in Poland? We complain about Russia's Black Sea Fleet and the base at Sevastopol in the Crimea, which has been there since 1783, but have no problem with our own base at Guantanamo!

I see this has bad has the government in Russia is more free-market and capitalism than the US. And Russia not being socialist state will use Cuba and exploit Cuba.

He not going to Cuba to help Cuba but use and exploit Cuba. This also will get messy if there is nukes in Cuba:( the US will invade that is a FACT. The US will not allow arm race or nukes in Cuba.

Guerrilla22
29th November 2008, 04:18
the government in Russia is more free-market and capitalism than the US.
This is simply not true. Russia may not be a socialist country but their economy is definitely not more liberal than that of the US.


He not going to Cuba to help Cuba but use and exploit Cuba
No, he is visiting Cuba because the US is increasingly encroaching into Russia's sphere of influence so Russia is trying to return the favor.


This also will get messy if there is nukes in Cuba
Sorry, but that's an absolutely absurd hypothetical situation. There's absolutely no way that would happen.

spice756
30th November 2008, 07:00
This is simply not true. Russia may not be a socialist country but their economy is definitely not more liberal than that of the US.

That's what I was reading.



No, he is visiting Cuba because the US is increasingly encroaching into Russia's sphere of influence so Russia is trying to return the favor.

Sure Russia is looking for allies.Just loook at Russia in south America.


Sorry, but that's an absolutely absurd hypothetical situation. There's absolutely no way that would happen.[/quote]

Any thing planes ,missiles and army .Having Cuba built up a army is bad.And being so close to the US :crying:Russia will give stuff for free to Cuba to piss the US off.

Just little little little bult up some new fighters plane in Cuba will be enough for the US to use this has a excuse to go to war with Cuba.

spice756
30th November 2008, 07:15
Well because Cuba has only 11,000,000 people and in the US 300,000,000 people having a big army will not help Cuba but the US put more sections on Cuba and be more hostile.

Even if money came from the sky Cuba could not fight off the US do to size difference,

The only way Cuba can fight the US is like a Vietnam a guerrilla war and terrorist war and that what Cuba government should be training.Has the size of US is too high 11,000,000 people in Cuba and in the US 300,000,000 people that is almost 28 X more people.

Having a army will get the US to use that has a excuse to go to war with Cuba and will never remove the embargo.

paolo22
30th November 2008, 07:30
This is ridiculous, Cuba is poor, just like the rest of the world. There's a financial crisis in the heart of the WORLD economy.

When I'm poor I go to my worst enemy too, KFC. Doesn't mean I like them or I'm going to work for them, I just want my chicken wings and French fries cuz its cold and i haven't eaten for 24 hours.

Wild_Fire
2nd December 2008, 05:30
I think it would be a great step for Cuba to set up a beneficial relationship with Russia once more.

Not only could Cuba remind Russia of what progressing to Communism is but, to ally these two countries together and set up an stable economic flow between the two could allow faster development in other countries.
More volunteers from Cuba could be sent to other Socialist countries to help progress their own Revolutionary Movements.

Yes, there is an economic crisis currently, hence the expression, in unity there is strength!

The Breaking down of the USSR crushed Cuba. To see them unite once more can only give hope to Communists like myself that the tide has turned back to a World Revolution!:drool:

Tatarin
2nd December 2008, 05:40
But if the world is in an economic crisis, then surely, capitalist Russia must be in that soup too? I doubt they will help a small country unless they have the stable economic base to stand on?

spice756
2nd December 2008, 06:52
Why would Russia go out of their way to help Cuba with nothing in return? Do you think Cuba is going allow army from Russia to Cuba?

No Cuba does not want a other missile crisis .

REDSOX
2nd December 2008, 22:27
I think this is a fuss about nothing, so what if fidel castro meets bourgeois politicians or the pope or anyone like that, you cannot expect castro not to meet anyone from other nations and just sit tight in cuba. You have to deal with the world the way it is not th way we would like it. There is not a shred of evidence that the cubans have compromised their beliefs and are selling out the masses. Its just politics folks plain and simple

Coggeh
2nd December 2008, 22:37
I'm sorry to be a party pooper ,but when did leftists become sympathetic to imperialism ?

Russia doesn't give a flying f**k about helping cuba or venezuala , they are doing what any imperialist country does and is just giving them a shit deal to increase their influence . Socialists should be completely and strictly against this move and that of Castro and Chavez's policy towards Russia ,it is a full on pragmatic approach and is just another indication of just how serious Chavez is about socialism .

End note :This is BULLSHIT!!!(don't mean to be flaming but seriously ... come on....)

Revy
2nd December 2008, 22:48
I'm sorry to be a party pooper ,but when did leftists become sympathetic to imperialism ?

Russia doesn't give a flying f**k about helping cuba or venezuala , they are doing what any imperialist country does and is just giving them a shit deal to increase their influence . Socialists should be completely and strictly against this move and that of Castro and Chavez's policy towards Russia ,it is a full on pragmatic approach and is just another indication of just how serious Chavez is about socialism .

End note :This is BULLSHIT!!!(don't mean to be flaming but seriously ... come on....)

I'm sorry, but do you really expect Cuba or Venezuela to go up against the US alone?

Russia is also being threatened by the US. Russia cares about a strategic alliance with these countries. It is true that Russia is not socialist at all but it is also true that Russia has a mutual interest with Cuba and Venezuela in preventing US imperialism from attacking their nations.

Just look at all the rhetoric against Russia in the US media and by US politicians including President-elect Obama. I remember watching CNN and this anchor goes into some weird ass rant about how Obama's election is threatening to Russians because they hate our democracy and his election as President proves that we're really democratic and not the dictatorship that Russians think we are. That's the kind of rhetoric being used.

So I will say that Russia is being threatened with imperialism and all revolutionary socialists must oppose that while opposing Russia's government. and if any other emerging superpower, like China or India is threatened with imperialism we must oppose that imperialism as well.

Coggeh
2nd December 2008, 23:08
I'm sorry, but do you really expect Cuba or Venezuela to go up against the US alone?

Russia is also being threatened by the US. Russia cares about a strategic alliance with these countries. It is true that Russia is not socialist at all but it is also true that Russia has a mutual interest with Cuba and Venezuela in preventing US imperialism from attacking their nations.

Just look at all the rhetoric against Russia in the US media and by US politicians including President-elect Obama. I remember watching CNN and this anchor goes into some weird ass rant about how Obama's election is threatening to Russians because they hate our democracy and his election as President proves that we're really democratic and not the dictatorship that Russians think we are. That's the kind of rhetoric being used.

So I will say that Russia is being threatened with imperialism and all revolutionary socialists must oppose that while opposing Russia's government. and if any other emerging superpower, like China or India is threatened with imperialism we must oppose that imperialism as well.
I don't care about Russia and its bourgeois war of words with the US .Let them fight amongst each other all they want , it only becomes an opportunity for the left to show the results of capitalism , that war and imperialism are inherent in its nature .

I'm not being sectarian I do believe that the gains made in Venezuala are very progressive and that no leftist should deny any of that . But Chavez's actions on the road ahead are critical .

If Chavez wants to defend Venezuala he should strengthen worker organizations ,give more power to unions and grassroots organizations show the world what real democracy looks like . And if or when it comes to it arm these organizations to defend the revolution . America will not invade with tanks planes bombs like in Iraq , America will do what it has always done , that is create uncertainty among the populace , strengthen the right and push for a coup .

How can this be achieved with the workers completely behind Chavez ?
You saw an example of this working in the last coup when the workers and peasants rose up .

Sadly I have my doubts about if he can rely on them a second time with the way things are going

spice756
3rd December 2008, 04:39
I'm sorry, but do you really expect Cuba or Venezuela to go up against the US alone?

Russia is also being threatened by the US. Russia cares about a strategic alliance with these countries. It is true that Russia is not socialist at all but it is also true that Russia has a mutual interest with Cuba and Venezuela in preventing US imperialism from attacking their nations.


But I'm scared that Cuba is going to get exploited by Russia.Things where different before than now.



And if or when it comes to it arm these organizations to defend the revolution . America will not invade with tanks planes bombs like in Iraq , America will do what it has always done , that is create uncertainty among the populace , strengthen the right and push for a coup .



No the US will put a embargo like Cuba.The US will not allow other Cuba country .