BNP members: restrict or ban?

[Holden Caulfield]

from the revleft FAQ section

This person was restricted/banned, why?

In the daily happenings at the board, members sometimes make comments that are unacceptable at this site. Comments that are racist, sexist or homophobic for example. This usually will result in a restriction, and if the problem is deemed serious enough by the membership, a ban. No matter where you fall on the political spectrum, this is the case.


keeping in mind that, regardless of the neo-nazi leadership, the majority of the BNP are in fact not fascists would it be consistant with board policy to restrict members who are not fascist or at least overtly fascist to the OI rather than banning them?

Although there party is fascist at the core the party is opportunist and a right populist party therefore it contains many non fascist elements, perhaps capitalists, nationalists and other elements.

e.g. user 'Ships Cat' was in the BNP but was tolerated and well like for their time on the board, restricted for not being a leftist and then banned for being on the BNP leaked list. However the users e-mail being included on the list did not change their past posts so does it not seem inconsistant to ban them?

We would not ban a member of the republican party, do you think we should ban or restrict the 'liberal nationalist' type of BNP member as long as they remain 'civil'?

keep in mind your opinions have no bearing on the CC desicions and this is just to gauge opinion...

[Sean]

Personally, I think the Opposing Ideologies Forum is room enough for other people. I'm not here for a chinwag and to have my irrational beliefs about the BNP completely shattered with groundbreaking and totally original responses from the right. Stormfront watch this forum like hawks so if the BNP wants their say they'll start a thread about it there. If you opened it up to them, the forum would be flooded with "im not racist but," threads and constant derailment by the same arguments. One forum to debate with the other side is fine, and keeps constructive threads on track. I realise the irony of that last statement while the pictures of fash thread is still running. :)

[Holden Caulfield]

Opposing Ideologies Forum is room enough for other people

yeah... but we ban fascists so they can never post again, we restrict everybody else so they can only post in the OI, i might have missed you point but what do you think should happen to 'liberal nationalist' type BNP members?

[Sean]

Sorry, I actually had a line at the start of that that didnt get copied over from notepad. I don't think the fash should be banned outright unless they start acting retarded in OI, I think we should have BNP members in there and not simply banned.

[Holden Caulfield]

Sorry, I actually had a line at the start of that that didnt get copied over from notepad. I don't think the fash should be banned outright unless they start acting retarded in OI, I think we should have BNP members in there and not simply banned.

i agree, people who are overtly intolerant should however be banned, so nutzis and other such scum should be banned outright but not all members of nationalist parties, it shows massive inconsistancy and a failure to face a growing threat, (i say thrat i was gonna say ideology but they are oppostunists and dont have one other than veiled white nationalism)

[Forward Union]

I think it's a bit like discussing how many angels we can fit on the head of a pin.

How many joe-blogs BNP members are going to come on here?

[Sean]

I think it's a bit like discussing how many angels we can fit on the head of a pin.

How many joe-blogs BNP members are going to come on here?
There seemed to be one, Operator, floating around this afternoon actually. He's at right wing and comes off sympathetic at least. Apologies Operator if you are not, in fact one.

[Melbourne Lefty]

keeping in mind that, regardless of the neo-nazi leadership, the majority of the BNP are in fact not fascists would it be consistant with board policy to restrict members who are not fascist or at least overtly fascist to the OI rather than banning them?



If they are willing to say openly that they are not anti-semitic then its a pretty safe bet that they are not nazis.

If they were restricted only to Opposing Ideologies and only those willing and able to debate without throwing mud were allowed to stay then yes I would be all for it.

After all, its not like they are going to win any converts here, and debating the best that racists can put up should sharpen peoples skills in that area [at least a little].

Racist arguments need to be confronted head on in a reasoned way that shows them up for the insanity they are. Thats why I never liked the whole 'no platform' thing, great for organising rallies, but it gives the racists the ability to play the martyr which makes my skin crawl.

[Melbourne Lefty]

How many joe-blogs BNP members are going to come on here?


for a free no holds barred debate with 'the evil reds' without getting screamed at?

I think youd be surprised, most of the BNP blogs out there laugh at left wingers for just screaming without debating. They seriously think this means we are complete idiots because they have never heard a left winger debate them without screaming NAZI Every time they start to sound like a human being.

Right wing populists in the UK are weak, so they should be studied in reference to the far stronger forces of continental europe [Swiss, Austrian, Italian 'post fascists', 'anti-Islamists' etc]

Just my two cents... in two posts as well!:laugh:

[LOLseph Stalin]

I say BNP should be able to post. If they get out of control it's easy to ban and restrict them. Like i'm sure it could be a valuable learning experiences for newbies like me to be able to properly debate with OI people.

[PRC-UTE]

they're fascists rebranding themselves as non-fascist patriots. it's just a tactic.

[Patchd]

No, this isn't a fair fight so why should any of us play fair with them?

[Sasha]

restrict them to the OI and ban them if they troll.

[Holden Caulfield]

they're fascists rebranding themselves as non-fascist patriots. it's just a tactic.

the leadership and large portions are but you cannot seriosly say that ever BNP member is a fascist

[Killfacer]

It's unfair to sling them into OI. I was in there for a long time and if i had been grouped with BNP scum then i would have left right at the start. It has to be a ban.

[danyboy27]

OI would suck if you guy would allow scumbag like these in.

i think the peoples in OI should have the right to determine if they want fash or not. we should call a vote inside the OI section when a fash would join, so they could decide if they accept him or not.

anyway, its more a OI matter of concern, its their place, normal commie know they wont have to deal with them after a fews post anyway.

[Everyone's Comrade]

It is difficult to say. There's a great variance between different BNP members. For instance, you see the documentaries on TV with BNP members praising Hitler. Then you get the more "moderate" (man that feels such an odd term to be using when describing the BNP) members who are in the party just to stop immigration and don't demand the extermination of every non-white.

I know IRL a couple of BNP members, and we get on fine just so long as we don't discuss politics. I say judge on a case by case basis- if the member in question is a ****, then ban him/her. If not, let them post in OI.

[F9]

White nationalists should be banned, as they are nationalists, even if they are not facists with the correct notion of the word!So yeah ban

Fuserg9:star:

[danyboy27]

White nationalists should be banned, as they are nationalists, even if they are not facists with the correct notion of the word!So yeah ban

Fuserg9:star:


if i understand your reasoning, beccause i am canadian, beccause i love canada, and beccause i am proud to be here, it mean i should be banned?

being nationalism dosnt mean hating communism or hating other races.

[F9]

if i understand your reasoning, beccause i am canadian, beccause i love canada, and beccause i am proud to be here, it mean i should be banned?

being nationalism dosnt mean hating communism or hating other races.

yes it does!:confused: nationalist means that they think their nation is the superior and the best, they are always racists against different people from other nations!Nationalism=/= Communism, communism is international
Yes nationalists imo should be banned, they are just like next to facists even technically not being one!

Fuserg9:star:

[Sam_b]

the leadership and large portions are but you cannot seriosly say that ever BNP member is a fascist

I agree. But I really don't see that as the point.

We have to make a rational and informed decision here about the nature of the BNP as an organisation. I am in no doubt that the BNP is a fascist political party with fascist and racist goals, and that they will be constantly educating members to this point of view.

It takes a big jump from being a working class person disillusioned at the political parties that have let him/her and their area down, and thus lodges a protest vote for the BNP; and a signed up member of the party itself. I think this shows a certain sympathy or agreement with the main intentions of the party: and the footage we have seen of their meetings show that the outer gloss of the 'respectable political party' at election time all but disappears inside the organisation - in particular when you see people like Nick Griffin and Mark Collett calling for such things as a 'whiter future'.

RevLeft's purpose serves as a community for the left first and foremost, and though we do have some undecided people and those who are trying to build up a political knowledge here which we can win over, this is only a small proportion of what the forum is about. BNP members who come over here are almost certainly not going to be in this latter category (especially with the party's online shop is selling 'Commie Free Zone' badges). We fight the fascists on the streets and win people over in their local communities. On RevLeft this isn't possible.

There's no doubt in my mind that we should be banning BNP members who come to RevLeft.

[Hit The North]

they're fascists rebranding themselves as non-fascist patriots. it's just a tactic.

This. They should definitely be BANNED.

[danyboy27]

yes it does!:confused: nationalist means that they think their nation is the superior and the best, they are always racists against different people from other nations!Nationalism=/= Communism, communism is international
Yes nationalists imo should be banned, they are just like next to facists even technically not being one!

Fuserg9:star:


i dont think canada is better than any other country, but its my country and i love it.

i dont think all nationalist think their country is the best.

[Dóchas]

i say give them a chance but be a lot harsher on them and if they make and offensive comment give them a warning but the second time and they are out of here and maybe monitor them a bit more, i dunno just my opinion

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Sorry, this isn't up for discussion.

"Note: Fascists of all kinds are not allowed to post on RevLeft. This includes 'National Bolsheviks', 'third positionists' and all other pseudo-leftist fascists." - Revleft FAQ

Closed.