world peace - capitalism and communism truce?

[lostsoul]

In this section of the board, people are arguing and fighting with each other. Also i read a book that quoted lenin,(sorry i don't have the exact quote), but he basically said war is as much a part of capitalism as peace, and it would be foolish to think communists can peacefully remove capitalists without a fight.


It made me think:

Can capitalists and communists every peacefully co-exsist on the same planet? or will the battles end when one is totaly destoried?

[Urban Rubble]

The battles will never end. You are living in a fantasy world.

I don't think that they could ever co-exist.

[Ex Nihilo]

We won't stop until communism is wiped off the face of the Earth.


-- Dark Capitalist

[lostsoul]

then do you think the battle with only be an ideological battle? or solely a military one?

[Ex Nihilo]

Both.


-- DC

(Edited by Ex Nihilo at 6:48 am on June 27, 2003)

[Cosmonaut]

You are a fool to think you can wipe out communism. Communism is the absolut social system. What Jesus had said 2000 years ago? "GIVE YOUR POSSESIONS TO THE POOR AND JOIN THEM" what does that mean? if all aplied it they would be called communists.Communism springs out from capitalism, thats what happened in Russia in 1917. Read a book about history... What goes around comes around. If it wasn't for the October revolution you all would work 14 hours a day. The world would be something like England in 1700-1900

[Vinny Rafarino]

It is true that Capitalism cannot be sustained indefinitely. Any economist will tell you so. Unless they either got their degree by popping three balloons with darts at a carnival or work for the capitalist government.

Socialism is the next in economic and political evolution. The fact you cant build socialism on a national level without first having a capitalist stage also rings true on a global level.

[The Feral Underclass]

Absolutly not...Capitalism and COmmunism can not co-exist, because they are extreme opposites. it is like having a Nazi government who tolerate jews. Dosnt work does it.

Communism is about a classless society where property is communally owened. Capitalism is about class divisions, rich and poor, where the rich have all and the poor live in survitude, chained to their wages in a bitter strunggle for survival.

Communism will never be defeated because Capitalism exists. THe ideology of Communism came out of capitalism. The beliefs of this kind of society where in direct contradiction to the horrible and slave like lifes people lived and still live. Without capitalism, communism could never have become a belief.

Therefore, as long as Capitalism still exists, and still does the things it does, which it has to do, otherwise it wouldnt survive, people will still be communists. Until capitalists discover a way to suppress our thoughts and remove our ability to analyze our lives, communism will still provail.

As for Lenin, I am not sure what the quote is, or what exactly he was talking about, but in answer to your retorical question, No! we can not get rid of capitalism without a fight.

Unfortunatly, capitalists and world leaders do not want to give away all their power and wealth to people like me and you. So when the workers realise that infact they are slaves to their wage, and that they make the world go round, they will organize and they will attempt to emancipate themselves. But the polcie and the army will fight us. They will fight us with batons, with pistols with rifles and with bombs, so therefore we have to fight back with batons, pistols rifles and bombs.

If they did just say here have our control, we wouldnt have to fight. But me thinks that this wont happen.

Anyway, capitalism can not exist with communism because communism can only happen when capitalism is destoyed. But as long as capitalism exists, so will communism. So all in all, the Reds win...

[SlimJin]

Look at REDSTAR2000's post on Marxism w/o the Crap under Theory, it basically says the obvious, Communism is the final eventual State of Human Society Evolution! So there is no fighting it it will happen it is basically a matter of when. So don't waste your time with people who don't see it that way because they know nothing except for all that was taught to them in a Capitalist Country in a Capitalist society in a Capitalist School System!!!
Fuck the Bourgeosie!

[lostsoul]

Libertarian Commie - excellent post, but you just got me thinking a bit deeper. If one day, say communism takes over the world, and every country is communist, then do you think the struggle will happen again, but this time capitialist rising up?

just as their people like us who want everyone to be equal, don't you think their are people in the world who just want to be kings and rulers or become richer then everyone else?

Will the struggle stop, or is it bound to keep continuing back and forth?

[The Feral Underclass]

If you are to say that everyone wants to be a ruler or a king, or at elast some people do, then you are entertaining the idea that somehow we have a gene in our DNA which makes us want to be that way.

The society we live in is all about the individual. Capitailist society dicates that we shjould strive to be rich and powerful. Most people look upo to those who are rich, celebraties etc as better people. People want to be like that, because that is how we are "supposed" to be.

The only way a communist society can work is when the people who have fought for it have bvecome conscious. They have realised that this is not the right way to live your life. That these material things are not what is important, and that working to make the individual rich and powerful, are actually stupid things to want. So people stop wanting to be like the celebrtaites. They become normal functionaing, conscious human beings who work together to achieve a common goal.

The only reason struggle happens into todays society is because there is want. People are oppressed, wars are happening, people loose their jobs and their kids turn into drug addicts. These are all directly linked to capitalism. In a communsit society these things want exist anymore, everyone will be free and equal and so there will be no need for struggle.

Communism is the final stage of evolution. It is a society in the way that the world should be run. The way everyone wants it to be run, but just dont think it is possible.

[Iron Star]

capitalism and communism cannot coexist in the world. one must be elimanated.

(Edited by Iron Star at 8:12 am on June 28, 2003)

[Organic Revolution]

one word... no

[lostsoul]

i think one thing all capilitists dogs and communists saints can agree on is this is one fucked up picture

http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/images/20551.jpg%20

[elijahcraig]

If you are a communist, you won't stop fighting for that until capitalism kills you or you kill the it. If you don't believe that, you are not a communist.

[anti machine]

Lost soul, what you are proposing is a compromise. NOt only will such a compromise never occur, but it would be just that-a compromise. A surrender. Any true communist cannot and will not be content until the bourgeouisie is buried in the ground.

To quote the manifesto: "their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of ALL existing social conditions."

This is ultimately why communism, as it has been practiced up until this date, failed. The communist nations attempted to remain isolated from capitalism, to co-exist to an extent. This is simply not possible, and trial and error has proven Lenin's single-state revolution, while capitalism still remains prevelent, a disaster. When self-less egalitarianism and imprisoned greed have a duel, greed wins. The temptation of capitalism invades the mind of the communist leader, or party, and the state succums to classes once again.

[lostsoul]

maybe i wasn't totally clear.

My question was actually based on another question of if communism can spread without volience. communism if practiced correctly can make a nation strong and peaceful, but its very hard to do this with the constant threat of voilence.

either their has to be a huge world war in which communists come out victorious(i know that was mao's theory), or communism has to take over the world somewhat slowly and quitly.

i know the first one has been the goal of a few leaders(stalin, mao, etc) but i was wondering if the second one is possible.

I think if the people around the world see how strong a true communist nation can become they will prehapes not be so hostile towards it and try to use the same concepts in their own countries.


but i guess, its not possible..both sides seem to want to destory each other..i guess thats why america and its dogs try to destory communists before they can get big. If this continues then communism, in my opinion, has little chance of being widely practiced in our lifetime. Because throughout modern history it seems like one capitialistic imperialist nation comes to power only to replace another one.

[elijahcraig]

Have you ever read Ward Churchill's "Pacifism as Pathology"? It debunks nonviolence for what it is: COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY.

[kelvin]

Quote: from lostsoul on 4:53 am on June 27, 2003
In this section of the board, people are arguing and fighting with each other. Also i read a book that quoted lenin,(sorry i don't have the exact quote), but he basically said war is as much a part of capitalism as peace, and it would be foolish to think communists can peacefully remove capitalists without a fight.


It made me think:

Can capitalists and communists every peacefully co-exsist on the same planet? or will the battles end when one is totaly destoried?


Communism is an extremely regimented economy. To maintain such a regimented economy, social and behavior controls are also implemented.

The fight against communism is not it is idealsim, but the regimented society and behavior controls it must eventually impliment.

Feel free to save the world, but not at the expense of liberty and freedom of the individual.

Prove to me that a just and free society can be founded without regimented social controls and economic controls, then call it communism and I'll be happy to call myself a communist too.

[kelvin]

Quote: from lostsoul on 10:15 pm on July 1, 2003
i think one thing all capilitists dogs and communists saints can agree on is this is one fucked up picture

http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/images/20551.jpg%20


Why has China allowed Hong Kong to exist? Why has the inferior economic system not been replaced with a superior one?