All Men are Not Created Equal - I do not believe all men are

[black sheep.]

There is a difference between Communism and Social Darwinism. Social Darwinists will enslave and exploit degenerate people. They will enslave them or give them very low paying jobs. However, under Communism degenerates will get $12 to $14 an hour jobs (in US dollars). Therefore Communism is showing love to all people. Social Darwinism is not. Who is degenerate? Anyone that cannot compete in a Social Darwinist society.
Is that something to be ashamed of? No, not really.
Does anyone agree with me?

[commie kg]

Social Darwinism is what the Nazis based their "Untermenschen" policies off of.

Tell me you aren't a Nazi.... I guess I don't know what you're asking.

[Zombie]

degenerate? is that what you like to call the proletariat? undesirable and depraved people?

make yourself clearer next time, your post is too fuzzy

[black sheep.]

I'm not a Nazi. If I were a Nazi then I would say "screw the degenerates". I'm offering degenerates $12 to $14 an hour jobs. Actually, I'm a degenerate. Due to various problems I probably can't accomplish the middle class "American Dream". So I am simply admitting the people are human. They all cannot achieve the high physical and mental standards to suceed under Social Darwinism. In other words, most people ain't doctors and lawyers. These days you must have a college education or be a truck driver to suceed under American Capitalism legally. Republicans are saying that people who support socialism are lazy, whiny crybabies. I am saying that some (probably most people) really cannot achieve the "American Dream". They cannot get high paying jobs due to mental, physical, or emotional problems. These people will end up working at low paying jobs for a lifetime. I'm offering these people wages which will enable them to escape poverty.

[Iron Star]

social darwinism has already been refuted. even those whom society labels as degenerates can still achieve positions of high status and great wealth if they play their cards right. some are even born into wealth. bush being a good example.

[black sheep.]

Quote: from Zombie on 7:56 am on June 22, 2003
degenerate? is that what you like to call the proletariat? undesirable and depraved people?

make yourself clearer next time, your post is too fuzzy


There is nothing wrong with being "degenerate". Only people with an inferiority complex feel insulted by the word "degenerate". A person that is mentally healthy accepts who he or she is. I believe that Communism is about love. This love includes loving yourself. I know I sound like a psychiatrist or special ed teacer. However, I really feel people and society should be based on love.
People should love themselves and love others. Perhaps I should not have used the word "degenerate", but I could'nt think of another word.
Maybe I should have used "imperfect people". Anyway you look at it "imperfect people" are LOSERS under capitalism. However, I don't believe they are losers. I believe society should give them a fair chance.

[Zombie]

Your first post gave out the impression that degenerate people are wrong or something..
there is no imperfection mate, just like there isn't perfection.
if you call people imperfect, that ultimately means others are perfect. which cannot be.

I regard the proletariat, those degenerates you speak of, as the heart of any society. Take high society America for example. If you take those "LOSERS" out of the big picture, the country would implode onto itself. The big boys rely on the 'little people' to survive, this is nothing new. To me, those 'little people' are the real big boys.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Well son as "degenerate" means having fallen to an inferior or undesirable state, especially in mental or moral qualities, I doubt anyone will take that as a compliment. Are you perhaps a bit dim?

I think you may have communism mixed up with being a hippie. There is a world of difference.

Trust me son, you don't even remotely sound like a psychiatrist or Special Education teacher.

[Ghost Writer]

Based on what you have written here, it is obvious that you are a degenerate, and yes, I mean that as an insult. To suggest that idiots and nincompoops ought to be paid 12-14 dollars an hour is reprehensible. I think that you should quit making excuses for your shortcomings as a human being, and try to find your nitch in the market system. Perhaps you could earn the type of salary you demand working in a freak show. Then, I would have no problem with your salary. However, if the state took money out of my paycheck to ensure your quality of living, Iwould having a problem with degenerates. For now, you must compete for the work that you are qualified to do. Hooray for capitalism.

[Vinny Rafarino]

What exactly should Idiots and nincompoops get paid GW? I take it you have a figure in mind since you are adamantly opposed to Mr. Sheep's figures.

Now GW, before you fly off the cappie handle and start yelling remember that Mr. Sheep is talking from a communist stand point. I can give fuck all about that. We need a communist government first, then we can pay attention to simple "paycheque" economics. I want to know how much you think "nincompoops" and "idiots" should receive for doing whatever job they actually can. Also consider that for some of these people fry-cook is too tough. Think long and hard GW, take into account that the majority of these people will have large prescription drug expenditures and no socialised healthcare system. (USA) Some may even requre a live in care-taker.

Since you are not a dipshit I'm sure you are picking up what I'm laying down here.

[Ghost Writer]

Fair market value.

Hovever, if they are severely incapacitated, charitable organizations, or even government programs can make certain that they are cared for properly. Keep in mind, I live in America, the country that is the most generous when it comes to helping out the world's downtrodden. Just don't intervene in the market system to ensure their subsustence levels, and let the market operate freely.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Alright, but what do you consider fair market value? 12-14 dollars an hour is in your eyes nutty, but could also be considered fair in some markets. So don't take the cheap way out. Minimum wage is considered acceptable
for an able bodied adult but what about a disabled person, specifically falling into the category I described prior.

[Totalitarian]

Equality is non-existent in Nature.

[Vinny Rafarino]

You're preaching to the chior here in regards to that one mate, but that's not what this is about.

[Ghost Writer]

Supply and demand. I have no problem with a dolt making 12-14 dollars an hour if that rate marks the intersection of the supply and demand curves. For instance, I have no trouble with a moron getting paid over a million dollars for dunking basketballs, if that is what the price of the market dictates; just as I have no problem with a fry cook getting paid twenty dollars an hour, if the scarcity of labor makes it necessary for employers to offer such a lucrative payment for such a mundane service. The problem I have is when left wing elements start regulating the price of labor, through bureaucratic means. As with most market commodities, the price of labor is best set by the free market. Altruistic programs should not hurt the businessmen that create economic growth, as they are best kept separate. Providing income based on self esteem is a sure-fire way to stagnate growth in the business sector, since the total number of jobs will decrease.

[black sheep.]

Quote: from Ghost Writer on 10:32 am on June 22, 2003
Based on what you have written here, it is obvious that you are a degenerate, and yes, I mean that as an insult. To suggest that idiots and nincompoops ought to be paid 12-14 dollars an hour is reprehensible. I think that you should quit making excuses for your shortcomings as a human being, and try to find your nitch in the market system. Perhaps you could earn the type of salary you demand working in a freak show. Then, I would have no problem with your salary. However, if the state took money out of my paycheck to ensure your quality of living, Iwould having a problem with degenerates. For now, you must compete for the work that you are qualified to do. Hooray for capitalism.


Perhaps I should follow the path of Dirk Diggler on the movie "Boogie Nights"....

[El Brujo]

Im not gonna bother responding to GW because his posts are stupid and typical of the brainwashed capitalist that copies the language of his economics teacher.

As for "social darwinism", it can be interpreted in many ways. Lenin acknowledged it to promote class struggle because he believed the proletariat and pro-worker intellectuals, put together, were stronger than the bourgeoisie. This is true as the proletariat are larger in number than the bourgeoisie, physically stronger as they are working people, and combined with the intelligensia, have a strong intellectual motivation. We should look at the movement as an act of social darwinism.

[Zombie]

GW sometimes you never seize to amaze me.
Supply and demand? really? You are basing yourself on a couple of nicely laid out curves on a grid? Please mate, if you think the market decides by itself who gets paid what, and that those curves place themselves there by magic, then you are a tad simple minded.
See, in a corporate country such as yours, and any other capitalist country, demand comes after supply. Pretty publicity plays a great role in all of this. You push the people to buy! buy! buy! ; you do not follow your populations' demand, you create it. It's called consumerism I believe.

I do have a problem with a guy dunking basketballs for several million dollars a year, while some other guy, a cook, a maid, a postman, *sigh*, the "common people" are getting paid 1/1000th the salary of the NBA dipshit.
Tell me, how is the latter helping your society in any way? Is he feeding you? Cleaning your clothes? Risking his life for you? Keeping you healthy? Working for you? How exactly is your welfare affected by a guy who puts balls in a basket for a living?
Oh shit, wait, it's entertainment.
$ESPN$ entertainment.
As long as the cash is good, you don't give a fuck do you.
You are being laughed at by your government and you are too foolish to realise it!
hooray capitalism.

(Edited by Zombie at 5:35 pm on June 22, 2003)

[black sheep.]

The Communist Party USA is in favor of raising the minimum wage to $12 an hour. This is not my idea. However, It sounds like a good idea. Please check out thier website ( http://www.cpusa.org ) for more information. I know from experience. People cannot live on the American minimum wage of $5.75 an hour. I think people need at least $2000 a month to enjoy life.
It took me a college degree to get a $2000 a month job. Imagine all the folks out there who don't have a college degree. For example, all of the people living in the projects and trailer parks. All I am calling for is a compassionate government. What is wrong with that?
I don't think raising the minimum wage to $12 an hour will hurt the economy. Actually, it will help it. Remember when Henry Ford raised the wages of Ford employees? It helped out the auto workers and auto industry big time. Of course, Henry Ford was anti-semetic. I guess nobody's perfect.

[black sheep.]

http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/511/

Here is the article which documents the CPUSA's support of the $12 an hour minimum wage.

[YKTMX]

This is totally unrelated, but just out of interest, whats the membership of the CPUSA like, as in numbers and ideologically?

[black sheep.]

Quote: from YouKnowTheyMurderedX on 11:56 pm on June 22, 2003
This is totally unrelated, but just out of interest, whats the membership of the CPUSA like, as in numbers and ideologically?

I'm not sure. You can check out thier website for more information. I know that they have a very small membership. Why? I guess because there is too much anti-communist prejudice in the USA. People view communists as unpatrotic or too extreme. However, the policies of George W. Bush have unmasked the true nature of capitalism. Communism was on the decline after the fall of the USSR. However, George W. Bush has thown a rock into the hornet's nest of the American Left. People are starting to turn to communism again for answers for our troubled times.

[Valkyrie]

I agree with any sort of raise in the minimum wage. 20 years ago the minimum wage was $3.35. It stayed in the $3 dollar zone throughout the whole 1980's.

The current min. wage is $5.15 an hour. That means the minimum wage hasn't even increased TWO fucking dollars in the last 20 years!!!!!

Things are going from bad to worse. Labor is depreciating faster than they are able to exploit the workers. Technically, a worker made more in the 80's at min. wage than they do now Soon, we will be working for pennies. And after that we'll be serfs.

Minimum Wage history (fromt the State of Vermont)
http://www.state.vt.us/labind/Wagehour/wagecomp.htm

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm



(Edited by Paris at 7:11 am on June 23, 2003)

[Ghost Writer]

"Soon, we will be working for pennies. And after that we'll be serfs."

I notice you put yourself in the category of people who work for minimun wage. That's funny! Anybody who lacks the skills necessary to earn more has a serious problem. I don't think I know anybody who works for $5.15 an hour, except maybe a 12 year old.

[Sabocat]

Quote: from Ghost Writer on 5:00 am on June 23, 2003
"Soon, we will be working for pennies. And after that we'll be serfs."

I notice you put yourself in the category of people who work for minimun wage. That's funny! Anybody who lacks the skills necessary to earn more has a serious problem. I don't think I know anybody who works for $5.15 an hour, except maybe a 12 year old.

Then you need to expand your horizons and take a look around. Almost the entire "service" sector in the U$ works for this kind of money. Hotel maids, janitors, farm workers, etc, etc.

I defy anyone to live on that kind of salary. Most of these people are unskilled or are immigrants. This wage is of course exploiting their circumstances.

Sadly, most will never find a "quality of life" as they will be too busy working 3 jobs to survive.

[Totalitarian]

The Young Communist Party USA don't seem very intellectual. They're just parroting a whole lot of meangingless affirmations and negatives. I can see how it would appeal to emotionally-charged children, however.



YES Jobs
YES Education
YES Justice
YES Equality
YES Health Care
YES Housing
YES Peace
YES People Power
YES Socialism

NO Racism
NO Union Busting
NO Sexism
NO Immigrant Bashing
NO Homophobia
NO More Prisons
NO Police Brutality
NO Pollution
NO New World Order

[Valkyrie]

"I notice you put yourself in the category of people who work for minimun wage.
That's funny! Anybody who lacks the skills necessary to earn more has a serious problem.
I don't think I know anybody who works for $5.15 an hour, except maybe a 12 year old. "


Look ASSHOLE, when I say "we" I am identifying myself as a worker and an unfortunate citizen of the United States.

When I first wrote that post, --- as you can see it's been edited, as better judgement thought to leave out the personal information I said...

"when I first started working 20 years ago, I made $3.35 an hour.
technically I made more in 1980 than a minimum wage worker makes today,
even though the cost of living has increased"

The point of my post is that minimum wage hasn't even moved 2 dollars
in the last twenty years although the cost of living has increased SUBSTANTIALLY. That's pretty bad, you Privileged Bastard.
If it keeps up, then in 2023 a minimum wage worker
will make only $7.15 an hour. Pennies by today's rate.

$3.35 in 1980 had the same buying power as $7. 45 today.
And the current minimum wage equals about $2 and some change.







(Edited by Paris at 6:08 pm on June 23, 2003)


(Edited by Paris at 6:11 pm on June 23, 2003)

[Valkyrie]

US Cost of Living Index:

http://www.newsengin.com/neFreeTools.nsf/C...View&ExpandView (http://www.newsengin.com/neFreeTools.nsf/CPIcalc?OpenView&ExpandView)

[Vinny Rafarino]

Agreed Totalitarian. The YCL is comprised of Libertarian communists that don't even realise they are responsible for the inability of communism to regain it's footing.

They think they are going to "demonstrate" communism back. There is better odds on flapping your arms and flying to the moon.

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Totalitarian on 12:30 pm on June 23, 2003
The Young Communist Party USA don't seem very intellectual. They're just parroting a whole lot of meangingless affirmations and negatives. I can see how it would appeal to emotionally-charged children, however.



YES Jobs
YES Education
YES Justice
YES Equality
YES Health Care
YES Housing
YES Peace
YES People Power
YES Socialism

NO Racism
NO Union Busting
NO Sexism
NO Immigrant Bashing
NO Homophobia
NO More Prisons
NO Police Brutality
NO Pollution
NO New World Order



Whoa? Not very intellectual? What is the revolution supposed to be for and about? Isn't that a very elitist attitude?

I thought communism was for and by common men. Or was I wrong and it is for the glory of intellectuals?

[Anonymous]

E-hem? How many of you commies here are actually factory workers and union members? Or do you consider yourselves intellectualls? I carried a union card for 10 years with IBEW #11. I am pretty sure there were no commies in the union. As a matter of fact I'm sure communism would sicken them.

[black sheep.]

Quote: from Totalitarian on 12:30 pm on June 23, 2003
The Young Communist Party USA don't seem very intellectual. They're just parroting a whole lot of meangingless affirmations and negatives. I can see how it would appeal to emotionally-charged children, however.



YES Jobs
YES Education
YES Justice
YES Equality
YES Health Care
YES Housing
YES Peace
YES People Power
YES Socialism

NO Racism
NO Union Busting
NO Sexism
NO Immigrant Bashing
NO Homophobia
NO More Prisons
NO Police Brutality
NO Pollution
NO New World Order



The CPUSA is designed to appeal to Americans. American Communism is not Russian or Chinese Communism. It's "French fries and hamburger" communism. However, that is what sells to Americans.
Communism is America has to relate to real Americans.
Americans get images of Russian soldiers parading in Red Square when they think of Communism. The CPUSA is trying to change that perception of Communism.
Also, intellectualism won't get support in America. People respond to simple propoganda. Most of the CPUSA's propoganda is a more radical version of the Democratic Party's propoganda. Americans will cross over from the Democrats when they realize that the Democrats are ineffective in promoting real change.
Remember, Lenin came to power with the slogan "Peace, Land, and Bread". Simple slogans worked for him. They will work for the CPUSA.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Mr. Sheep has some definite points. Perhaps I was a bit rash in my judgement. Only time will tell.

[mentalbunny]

See, kelvin's right, pity he's disappeared, that guy had a brain that was at least half working, he said some pretty good things. although i can't remember them of the top of my head.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Good work Admins on goofing up BoyKKKelvin90210's number of posts. It gave me a laugh.

BoyKKKelvin90210 (your name gets longer and longer mate) I believe it was comrade Lenin that said all workers must work in the union regardless of how right wing it is.

I expect my comrades to correct me if I have quoted the wrong Comrade.