RAF Comrade Released

[Dean]

Hah!

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/11/20081124192919817558.html

Discuss.

[Junius]

Hopefully he won't become a Nazi and a Holocaust denier like former RAF member Horst Mahler did.

But you never know with these types.

[RedArmyUK]

Hopefully he won't become a Nazi and a Holocaust denier like former RAF member Horst Mahler did.

But you never know with these types.


Traitors should be shot! :star2:

[RedScare]

I don't know nearly enough about the RAF as I want to, are there any good books on them that isn't just blind praise, but not vitriolic capitalist shit?

[bcbm]

I don't know nearly enough about the RAF as I want to, are there any good books on them that isn't just blind praise, but not vitriolic capitalist shit?

Televisionaries and How It All Began are decent. There's a number of zines floating around with interviewers or stories from former guerrillas.

[PRC-UTE]

Hopefully he won't become a Nazi and a Holocaust denier like former RAF member Horst Mahler did.

But you never know with these types.

it's much more likely he was an informer and a neo nazi to begin with, rather than became one after his RAF days.

[bcbm]

it's much more likely he was an informer and a neo nazi to begin with, rather than became one after his RAF days.

Because its impossible for people to switch? He was heavily involved in the parliamentary left during the 60's then moved to the extra-parliamentary left and into violence. He was on of the founding members of the RAF, though later expelled for a manifesto he wrote in prison. He began to make right-wing contacts in the 80's.

[Djehuti]

Hopefully he won't become a Nazi and a Holocaust denier like former RAF member Horst Mahler did.

But you never know with these types.

He won't. As late as 2007 he sent a message to the Rosa Luxemburg Conference of left-wing groups in January, declaring that the time had come to "complete the defeat of the plans of capitalism and to open the door to another future.

[black magick hustla]

:shrugs: Mussolini was member of the left wing of the PSI and an internationalist and he switched. Implying that he was not a genuine socialist militant because he had a change of heart is just arrogant.

[Q]

Am I the only one finding it problematic to call a terrorist (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/t/e.htm#terrorism) a "comrade"?

[JimmyJazz]

Am I the only one finding it problematic to call a terrorist (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/t/e.htm#terrorism) a "comrade"?

Nope.

And I don't take an absolute hard line against direct action, either. I think the Tupamaros were a good group for example. But the RAF was a joke.

[Sasha]

RZ did some intresting things and wrote good comuniqee's, so did RARA (holland), direct action (canada) and action directe (france).

although i'm higly critical of the RAF, their borderline anti-semitism and vanguard ideas are things i realy didn't like i do consider them comerades, espacely held against the stateterror that encountered.

btw; i am not an big fan of labeling people who do target killing terrorists, for me that label is reserved for indiscriminate acts of violence on the public to invoke a state of terror.

too speak in modern, the wtc atackers are terrorists, if someone would have shot bush, IMO not a terrorist per se.

[Nubilosus]

It might be interesting for you guys to know that some time ago the Dutch NSA (National Socialistic Action), a right-winged group, spread posters all over the Netherlands with the text "Freedom for Christian Klar, Anti-Imperialist". The RAF's love for violence is perhaps more fitting in a fash group than a left-winged group.

[Wanted Man]

It might be interesting for you guys to know that some time ago the Dutch NSA (National Socialistic Action), a right-winged group, spread posters all over the Netherlands with the text "Freedom for Christian Klar, Anti-Imperialist". The RAF's love for violence is perhaps more fitting in a fash group than a left-winged group.
The NSA also support squatting, that doesn't mean squatting is "fitting in a fash group".

[The Douche]

Am I the only one finding it problematic to call a terrorist (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/t/e.htm#terrorism) a "comrade"?

I find it problematic that a revolutionary would use bourgeois language to deride other revolutionaries.

One day you might be called a terrorist by the state to, "comrade".

[Nubilosus]

The NSA also support squatting, that doesn't mean squatting is "fitting in a fash group".
Perhaps I misexpressed myself. I tried to say that the RAF ideals are not very much like the nowadays left ideals. The use of violence to get everything done is in my opinion more a fash thing than a left-winged way of working.

[Wanted Man]

Yeah, I understand your point. The RAF's urban guerrilla tactic didn't work in the 1980s, and it's even less defensible now. Still, this guy is a prisoner of a political struggle, against a state which not only used much more violence, but also claims a monopoly on it. So in that sense, his release is a positive thing. But of course, that should not be seen as an endorsement of the tactics used.

As for the NSA, of course they will use any left-sounding subject, it's their whole way of working. Defending this guy, or even bin Laden, as "anti-imperialists" is just part of their shtick.

[Nubilosus]

As for the NSA, of course they will use any left-sounding subject, it's their whole way of working. Defending this guy, or even bin Laden, as "anti-imperialists" is just part of their shtick.

It is indeed... Did you happen to be at the AFA Utrecht presentation about the NSA?

[Wanted Man]

Nope, sorry. I know some comrades from my organisation who went to other such meetings in the country, though, apparently they were pretty good.

[Dóchas]

is the RAF the baader-meinhoff gang or am i completely wrong

[bcbm]

is the RAF the baader-meinhoff gang or am i completely wrong

Yes. BMG was a name given by the media.

[Sankofa]

Good to see that Comrade Klar is getting out of jail and hasn't shifted one iota in his beliefs.


is the RAF the baader-meinhoff gang or am i completely wrong

Yeah, it's the same group.


I don't know nearly enough about the RAF as I want to, are there any good books on them that isn't just blind praise, but not vitriolic capitalist shit?

There's a decent documentary on the movement here (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=red+army+faction&hl=en&emb=1&aq=f#) broken into eight parts. Features interviews with former members also.

[Q]

I find it problematic that a revolutionary would use bourgeois language to deride other revolutionaries.

One day you might be called a terrorist by the state to, "comrade".

I'm using the term "terrorist" as understood by Marxists, I even linked to the actual definition to make that clear, comrade.

[wigsa]

I find it strange that he was addressed as a 'comrade'.He murdered 9 people and tried to murder 11 more.Great way to gain support from the general public,by supporting a mass murderer.:rolleyes:

[bcbm]

Great way to gain support from the general public,by supporting a mass murderer.

Says the man with the Lenin avatar?

[The Douche]

I'm using the term "terrorist" as understood by Marxists, I even linked to the actual definition to make that clear, comrade.

That definition is no better than the one Dick Cheney uses.

Do you oppose taking actions which cause fear in bourgeois civilians and the military/police? Because thats what terrorism means.