Warning over drug-resistant HIV

[Anonymous]

Warning over drug-resistant HIV

By Richard Black
BBC Science correspondent

"The unregulated supply of Aids drugs in the non-industrialised world threatens to accelerate the development of drug-resistant HIV strains."

"That is the conclusion of a study from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, just published in the British Medical Journal."

"The study urges governments and international agencies to deal with the problem now."

"Drawing on evidence from Africa and Asia, the study shows that uncontrolled prescribing of anti-retroviral drugs is widespread and rising."

More (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3005428.stm)


(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 3:31 pm on June 20, 2003)

[Moskitto]

Artificial drugs won't cure the HIV virus, no viral infection has ever been cured using drugs alone, only vaccines have worked.

Best thing to do is to turn the body's own immune system onto the HIV virus as it is able to kill the virus. Since they've discovered the immune system's "master switch" gene they may be able to do this in a few years.

[Vinny Rafarino]

This is what happens when Capitalists control healthcare. I'm actually surprised you posted this DC.

[Iron Star]

Really what are you trying to say here?

[Umoja]

He's saying that if certain people can only afford one type of cheap innefficient medication, then it'll mutate the disease into an ultra strain.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Umoja on 3:33 pm on June 21, 2003
He's saying that if certain people can only afford one type of cheap innefficient medication, then it'll mutate the disease into an ultra strain.

That is why we need to research ways of making the immune system strong enough to fight the infection, the immune system is adaptive and can fight even a mutated form of the virus. Genetic engineering may help us do this, although the holy grail of genetic engineering is a non-toxic virus to transfer the genetic material.

[187]

"This is what happens when Capitalists control healthcare. I'm actually surprised you posted this DC."

Please....

[Unrelenting Steve]

"This is what happens when Capitalists control healthcare. I'm actually surprised you posted this DC."

Please....

Please...If the drug companies could, they'd make the drugs more expensive so that only a certain percent of the population could afford them while still keeping the drugs so common as to not cause a great chance of the virus mutating, they'd probably have these two things on a graph somehwhere, and where it intersects there is a clear choice of who they think should live, and this who is the rich, so they dont have to waste expenses on devolping more drugs to give to the poor who just cause their ineffectiveness that will cause the the need to research more and waste more. The healthcare industry is like any other industry, if they dont have as much profit as the resource industry then they dont get investors (they have to compete)- lets get real, this is capitalism, dont get incredulous when someone says its evil, I mean really 186 what are you on?

[187]

"The unregulated supply of Aids drugs in the non-industrialised world threatens to accelerate the development of drug-resistant HIV strains."

The problem here is apparently lack of regulation. Not Capitalism running the healthcare.

[Vinny Rafarino]

187 You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

The problem is cost of medication. Poor countries forced to purchase patented medication en masse at an extremely inflated cost. Any funds that would have been left over for regulation are no longer available. In addition son, The budgets available for prescription drug purchases is so low there is hardly enough for everybody. It's simple economics 187. Extreme demand = Extremely high cost to the consumer. These people are left with no alternative but purchase their medications on the black market. We all know how easy it is to regulate that eh?

So before you simply say "please" I suggest ask for details on a subject you do not understand.

[Vinny Rafarino]

That is why we need to research ways of making the immune system strong enough to fight the infection, the immune system is adaptive and can fight even a mutated form of the virus. Genetic engineering may help us do this, although the holy grail of genetic engineering is a non-toxic virus to transfer the genetic material.

The exact procedure is called Germ-line human genetic engineering. The new genes are attached to a virus referred to as a viral vector and carried into cells. The hype in the HGE community is combining Stem Cell HGE technologies with germ-line technologies in a new approach to designer babies. It's absolutely fascinating.

[Soul Rebel]

Ok- there are two problems. One of course is medication- it is too damn expensive, even for people here in the U.S. Second problem is the problem that many people are not aware of. There is not just one, but two types of HIV. HIV1 and HIV2. HIV1 is found in the U.S. and Europe, while HIV2 is found in Africa. These are two types of strains, which would most likely need to be treated differently. Meds for HIV1 may not work for HIV2. This is why people with HIV need to have protected sex- not just to protect others, but to protect themselves from getting another strain, therefore making them live with two types of HIV.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from SenoraChe on 7:45 pm on June 22, 2003
Ok- there are two problems. One of course is medication- it is too damn expensive, even for people here in the U.S. Second problem is the problem that many people are not aware of. There is not just one, but two types of HIV. HIV1 and HIV2. HIV1 is found in the U.S. and Europe, while HIV2 is found in Africa. These are two types of strains, which would most likely need to be treated differently. Meds for HIV1 may not work for HIV2. This is why people with HIV need to have protected sex- not just to protect others, but to protect themselves from getting another strain, therefore making them live with two types of HIV.

Not quite true, there are 2 main strains, HIV1 which is found worldwide including South and Central Africa and HIV2 which is found in West Africa, in addition there are subgroups of HIV1 which are lettered A-F which have varied geographic prevalence although not to the same extent as HIV1 and 2, and contrary to the common lads pub joke ending with the punchline "you can't catch it twice," you can. Also startlingly, HIV mutates more readily in a female body than a male body which raises concerns that a vaccine wouldn't be as effective in women.

[187]

"187 You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

The problem is cost of medication. Poor countries forced to purchase patented medication en masse at an extremely inflated cost. Any funds that would have been left over for regulation are no longer available. In addition son, The budgets available for prescription drug purchases is so low there is hardly enough for everybody. It's simple economics 187. Extreme demand = Extremely high cost to the consumer. These people are left with no alternative but purchase their medications on the black market. We all know how easy it is to regulate that eh?

So before you simply say "please" I suggest ask for details on a subject you do not understand."

From the article...

"...shows that uncontrolled prescribing of anti-retroviral drugs is widespread and rising."

"The study's author, Dr Ruairi Brugha, says that often patients do not take their drugs as they should."

"Dr Brugha also found that in some places patients are changing medication frequently, taking the wrong dose, or stopping treatment in periods when they cannot afford it(so what you're saying is part of the problem!!)."


"Doctors and clinics need treatment guidelines, they say, supplies of drugs need to be stable, and the public sector needs to compete more effectively in providing the services that people want. "


The big problem here seems to be lack of regulation. That's all that I said... I just didn't like it when it was simply stated that: capitalism is the problem here. If you had expanded further on what you originaly said, I wouldn't have responded with "please..."




(Edited by 187 at 9:50 pm on June 22, 2003)

[Soul Rebel]

Moskitto- I did mention the two strains and that HIV positive people need to protect themselves from this (the possiblity of catching another strain), but youre right- it slipped my mind to specify that it was Western Africa (rather than all of Africa) which had HIV2.

[Vinny Rafarino]

187. This is not a refutable issue. I don't care what this editorial states. This article is a media print with no actual case study information included to support the Doctor's claims. It can hardly be considered as absolute fact.

I beleive the good doctor is either being mis-quoted or taken out of context by this journalist (not an unlikely possibility)

Speaking of misquoting, I will now include the portion of this quote that comrade 187 chose to leave out;

"Drawing on evidence from Africa and Asia, the study shows that uncontrolled prescribing of anti-retroviral drugs is widespread and rising."

1) Drawing on what evidence?
2) How Wide-spread and Rising how quickly?

One would have to view the actual case study to make an accurate judgenment would they not?

"The study's author, Dr Ruairi Brugha, says that often patients do not take their drugs as they should."

How many patients and how often.

"Dr Brugha also found that in some places patients are changing medication frequently, taking the wrong dose, or stopping treatment in periods when they cannot afford it(so what you're saying is part of the problem!!)."

Hmm. Again how many patients and how often. (Tear the hook out of your mouth 187, The have gotten you on the boat.)

"Doctors and clinics need treatment guidelines, they say, supplies of drugs need to be stable, and the public sector needs to compete more effectively in providing the services that people want. "

It appears to me that this article is nothing more than an attempt from the right-wing to sway blame away from the responsible capitalists to the "irresponsible Doctors" and "irresponsible people"

"The big problem here seems to be lack of regulation. That's all that I said... I just didn't like it when it was simply stated that: capitalism is the problem here. If you had expanded further on what you originaly said, I wouldn't have responded with "please..."

I did and you still posted this nonsense.

[Moskitto]

HIV2 is thought to have appeared around the 1960s and probably would have died out if it weren't for the wars of independance being fought at the same time. HIV1 was first noticed in 1980, but a man who died in 1959 has now confirmed to be HIV positive from a frozen blood sample, and a few other suspected cases have been shown to be negative. There was also a similar condition reported in 1930s Europe but it is unconfirmed whether it is the same condition as many suspect. A large number of African women are believed to be immune to HIV and 2 western men are confirmed as being immune, doctors are studying them to see if their immunity can be harnessed.

[187]

"I beleive the good doctor is either being mis-quoted or taken out of context by this journalist (not an unlikely possibility)"

You gathered this based on nothing.

"It appears to me that this article is nothing more than an attempt from the right-wing to sway blame away from the responsible capitalists to the "irresponsible Doctors" and "irresponsible people""

It's irrelevant what appears to be truth to you. There is no admissible evidence here to support your claim.

"This article is a media print with no actual case study information included to support the Doctor's claims."

From the article...
"That is the conclusion of a study from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, just published in the British Medical Journal."

The fact is, this is just a summarization of what the study has concluded. It's meant for the average reader to get the gist of what the truth is, and if so desires where to get further information.

So his claims are based on a study(which includes that study's facts).

"One would have to view the actual case study to make an accurate judgenment would they not?"

Go read it, then try and refute it. It's available for your review.

"I did and you still posted this nonsense."

You responded with opinions, assumptions, unsubstantiated evidence, and snide comments. No hard facts(or a place to find them) to support your claims was provided.

I advise you to go read the study before you give details on a subject you may not fully understand.

...And hey, I'm not saying you are wrong, believe me! Just go read the study(which is readily available), bring back solid claims to refute the evidence they present, and then maybe I'll listento what you have to say.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from 187 on 12:22 am on June 24, 2003
"I beleive the good doctor is either being mis-quoted or taken out of context by this journalist (not an unlikely possibility)"

You gathered this based on nothing.

"It appears to me that this article is nothing more than an attempt from the right-wing to sway blame away from the responsible capitalists to the "irresponsible Doctors" and "irresponsible people""

It's irrelevant what appears to be truth to you. There is no admissible evidence here to support your claim.

"This article is a media print with no actual case study information included to support the Doctor's claims."

From the article...
"That is the conclusion of a study from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, just published in the British Medical Journal."

The fact is, this is just a summarization of what the study has concluded. It's meant for the average reader to get the gist of what the truth is, and if so desires where to get further information.

So his claims are based on a study(which includes that study's facts).

"One would have to view the actual case study to make an accurate judgenment would they not?"

Go read it, then try and refute it. It's available for your review.

"I did and you still posted this nonsense."

You responded with opinions, assumptions, unsubstantiated evidence, and snide comments. No hard facts(or a place to find them) to support your claims was provided.

I advise you to go read the study before you give details on a subject you may not fully understand.

...And hey, I'm not saying you are wrong, believe me! Just go read the study(which is readily available), bring back solid claims to refute the evidence they present, and then maybe I'll listento what you have to say.

I see logic and reason are not your forte. Which is fine, some people are only capable of abstract thought.

You gathered this based on nothing

And? It does not take an astro physicist to fugure out this one.

From the article...
"That is the conclusion of a study from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, just published in the British Medical Journal."


Again, you are simply wrong. An article can publish whatever they want. That does not make it true. Open up 187. The Right-wing media's spoon is coming to feed you again.

The fact is, this is just a summarization of what the study has concluded. It's meant for the average reader to get the gist of what the truth is, and if so desires where to get further information.
So his claims are based on a study(which includes that study's facts)

This entire statement is assumptive.

I advise you to go read the study before you give details on a subject you may not fully understand.

And hey, I'm not saying you are wrong, believe me! Just go read the study(which is readily available), bring back solid claims to refute the evidence they present, and then maybe I'll listen to what you have to say.

I personally don't care if if you listen to me or not as your knowledge of economics and global poltitics seems quite limited. I've seen situations like these time nd time again over the years.

[Moskitto]

why are you 2 argueing? I think it's obvious that taking drugs the wrong way is going to cause resistance. And I don't see any problem with saying there's a problem with the way that drugs are supplied in Africa. It's better to actually accept there's a problem and fix it than deny it and let it continue. And obviously the lack of drugs available in Africa is going to cause problems of insufficient doses and single drug treatments. The solution is to increase the supply of drugs, this will lead to the correct treatment proceedures being used because fewer shortcuts will be taken worrying about the supply of drugs.

Although drugs alone won't solve the problem, Brazil defeated their own HIV crisis by promoting condom use amoung people at carnivals and people having affairs, This allowed people who were infected to control their infection and people weren't unknowingly becoming infected and thus unknowingly passing the disease onto anyone else.