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View Full Version : Natural Evil vs. Moral Evil - For those that think "natural



Ghost Writer
17th June 2003, 09:23
I was reading RAM's signature, when I thought to myself that his assertion can not go unchallenged. It appeared as if RAM was actually trying to excuse man'sl evil by pointing to nature. The following is RAM's signature, and my response to what I believe is wrong.


"I would think that man would find natural evil worse then moral evil as it is not in our control. All we can do is prevent or reduce the effects. Only being able to prevent the effects of natural evil is a lot worse because none of it can be prevented. "

I would think that man would find moral evil worse, since it is clearly the act of deliberation. Besides, how can natural events, not controled by some entity be considered evil? Misfortunate, yes. I think that the classification of natural disasters as evil is a misnomer. In order for one to attach the word evil to an event, it must have been caused by the intention of doing harm, or causing great suffering.

Natural evil is a set of words that I despise. It suggests that man has no ability to intervene with the natural course of events, and that humankind is at the mercy of a sadistic god. It requires the kind of humble, and subservient approach to life that the fundamentalist religions ask of their followers. Therefore, by applying this term we create greater potential for moral evil, by helping to perpetuate an oppressive worldview that has a way of generating the mass hysteria known to cause great suffering.

In addition, I am fairly certain that if we were to actually compared moral evil and natural disasters against each other, we would find that man's evil often has an artificial quality with a more shocking and ghastly face to it. Things like the Final Solution, suicide bombings, the gulags, and world wars can generate death tolls that even nature will be hard pressed to rival.

To say that natural evil can not be averted shows ignorance. Technology, such as; vaccinations, genetically engineered foods, weather modification, modern architecture, levee systems, insecticide, and space exploration, contradicts this claim. As we advance as a species, and as master of our domain we develop tools that readily combat the natural world's powerful forces. In fact, we often use this destructive energy to enhance the lives of millions. As our observation of the world increases, so too does the experimental science that allows for direct intervention.

Scarier than the natural world around us, is man's potential to take the various tools mentioned above, and apply them toward great evil. The Total Information Awareness Project, the atomic bomb, biological and chemical warfare, and some applications of nanotechnology are excellent examples of this point. It's true that the world has ebbed when it comes to man vs. man violence. However, instabilities in certain areas lead to this question. How long wil it take before the fail-safes we have created dissolve, and the relative peace is shatter to such an extent we enter a new era in human evil, an era where evil exists in greater proportions than those demonstrated by last century's great wars? And what effect will the exponential rate at which we are able to gain power over our environment have on the outcome?

RAM
17th June 2003, 15:24
Moral Evil we can stop by chaning each other up and other measure like that! Earthquakes wil we always live with!

RAM
17th June 2003, 15:26
I was never argiung that moral evil was not bad just tha natural evil cannot be prevented where as moral evil can e.g.a speed camera to stop speeding which might cause a crash and hvaing a cop in a car at all times. Constant supervision!

Counterfactual hypothesing!

Vinny Rafarino
17th June 2003, 21:15
He's got ya by the bollocks RAM. Quit now.

Urban Rubble
17th June 2003, 21:22
I agree with GW. How can one claim that "natural evil" is evil at all ? Is a volcano evil ? An earthquake ? No, like GW said, unfortunate, not evil.

Plus, moral evil can't and actually, won't, ever be stopped, so saying one is worse than the other is kind of pointless.

Unrelenting Steve
17th June 2003, 21:48
I think the fact that we cant do anything or learn anything constructive about "natural evil" in comparsin to "moral evil" means that it is pointless to think about it and definatly pointless to commit it to any sought a record other than an example of how time and energy can be wasted with no actualy measurable ramifications other than time and energy being used to no effect, and people seeing that RAM cant defirenciate between an actualy philisophical profundity and something that appears to be profound, but only to ignoramus'.

(Edited by Unrelenting Steve at 8:58 pm on June 17, 2003)

Moskitto
17th June 2003, 22:16
i think in this context evil refers simply to "badness" so an earthquake or volcano has the property of "badness"

anti machine
18th June 2003, 00:49
agreed with norman. Moral evil if far scarier, for it is birthed from humanity, of which we are all members. A human cannot become an earthquake...a human CAN exterminate and torture other human beings. THis quality, being capable of change, is far worse than anything which we cannot change.

And since when is nature capable of evil? Evil is engineered by man. Nature exists. It is often harsh. Evil is a word that cannot be associated with a tree or a volcano or snow.

(Edited by anti machine at 12:54 am on June 18, 2003)

canikickit
18th June 2003, 01:55
"I would think that man would find natural evil worse then moral evil as it is not in our control. All we can do is prevent or reduce the effects. Only being able to prevent the effects of natural evil is a lot worse because none of it can be prevented. " By RAM


"If it wasn't for the effects of natural evil being unpreventable, we would probably be able to prevent it. I would think that man would be unable to find much, should he search for the evil nature of nature". By canikickit


Counterfactual hypothesing!

I agree 323534% ! ! ! ! ! !

(Edited by canikickit at 2:13 am on June 18, 2003)

Invader Zim
18th June 2003, 08:41
Quote: from anti machine on 12:49 am on June 18, 2003
agreed with norman. Moral evil if far scarier, for it is birthed from humanity, of which we are all members. A human cannot become an earthquake...a human CAN exterminate and torture other human beings. THis quality, being capable of change, is far worse than anything which we cannot change.

And since when is nature capable of evil? Evil is engineered by man. Nature exists. It is often harsh. Evil is a word that cannot be associated with a tree or a volcano or snow.

(Edited by anti machine at 12:54 am on June 18, 2003)


he never said that moral evil was not scarier than natural evil, so how do you work out that he thinks that one is "scarier" than another? He did not even mention fear.

Also I would agree with what he said, you can stop moral evil, and it can be controled but natural evil cannot be controled or halted, you can stop "murder" (in theory), but you cant stop desieses like AID's and canser etc.

anti machine
20th June 2003, 17:58
so there exists within nature a battle between good and evil? How can we be so presumptious in categorizing acts of nature as "evil". Nature exists. It is brutal toward those who wish to tame it. It causes death. But it is independent of a conciousness, which must be presumed to exist if it can be considered evil.

Does the bird blame nature when it is eaten by the dog? No. This is the cycle that nature must perpetuate in order to maintain balance. Does the bird blame man when he destroys his habitat and renders the bird extinct because of his own greedy desire to build, build, build? Absolutely.

Nature is impartial, unless its being fucked with and feels itself to be endangered. This is, in itself, the law of natural survival.

Nature knows no evil, except for that of man.

RAM
20th June 2003, 18:08
Errr Nature does not know evil only when it affects man it is evil but also that man has not caused it to happen but it has just happened e.g. San Fransico when they buil the city they did not know that the fault line was there so when there is an earthquake there it is the people fault err no it is natural evil not moral evil!

anti machine
20th June 2003, 18:20
err, well, errr, ram, err, FOOL!, err, how bout some, err, periods and commas so i can understand where your "thoughts", err, begin and end.

moreover, err, your argument that nature is evil because the tectonic plates shift is simply fallacious.

"Errr......FOOL! err, now i will throw in alot of exclamation points...err, ready?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

err, i love exclamation points!!! maybe if redstar used more i would not attempt to, err, use my crude mental capacity of a four-year-old to, err, refute him..

err, that is all!!!!"

RAM
20th June 2003, 18:28
Quote: from anti machine on 6:20 pm on June 20, 2003
err, well, errr, ram, err, FOOL!, err, how bout some, err, periods and commas so i can understand where your "thoughts", err, begin and end.

moreover, err, your argument that nature is evil because the tectonic plates shift is simply fallacious.

"Errr......FOOL! err, now i will throw in alot of exclamation points...err, ready?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

err, i love exclamation points!!! maybe if redstar used more i would not attempt to, err, use my crude mental capacity of a four-year-old to, err, refute him..

err, that is all!!!!"

That really was spam and it had no point to it at all. Instead of doing that you could have explain your argument and it looks like you will have to post again in 2 posts when you could have said that in 1 post and flamed me and put your argument!