YARR - Somali, and other modern type piracy

[S.O.I]

So do you think modern piracy is good or bad? What effect will this have in the west, in africa and other poor countries around?

[Tatarin]

Piracy, like the maffia, isn't good for anyone. But just like organized crime, it exists because people are so far out that these things become an option.

[KurtFF8]

Exactly, it isn't "good" but instead it should be viewed as a negative consequence of the system that made such actions "necessary" (<--point of much debate of course).

[S.O.I]

Effects of and perceptions on pirating

There have been both positive and negative effects of the pirates' economic success. Local residents have complained that the presence of so many armed men makes them feel insecure, and that their freespending ways cause wild fluctuations in the local exchange rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate). Others fault them for excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage) and khat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat).[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_pirate#cite_note-Pirates_high_life-39)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_pirate#cite_note-Pirates_high_life-39)
On the other hand, many other residents appreciate the rejuvenating effect that the pirates' on-shore spending and re-stocking has had on their impoverished towns, a presence which has oftentimes provided jobs and opportunity when there were none. Entire hamlets have in the process been transformed into veritable boomtowns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomtown), with local shop owners and other residents using their gains to purchase items such as generators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generator) -- allowing full days of electricity, once an unimaginable luxury.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_pirate#cite_note-Boomtowns-17)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia#Effects_of_and_perceptions_on_pi rating

PIRATES!!! i think you should switch "negative consequence" with "revolutionary reaction". some of theese people are actually very politically and socially aware, although most are not really all into that, and are basically just making a living... and these people are not ego-capitalist brutes working for imperialist families like the mafia, but are in fact highly democratic and open. and anyone fighting against united states' armed forces mostly have my support on pure principle.

[Wanted Man]

It's not surprising. What would you do if you had jack shit, while enormous oil tankers and freighters regularly pass your shores with more value than you could ever imagine? Piracy plz.

[Dimentio]

The pirates in Somalia are very rich and usually in league with the warlords. If you like warlords, then I guess its no problem to like pirates.

[S.O.I]

If you like warlords, then I guess its no problem to like pirates.

even better! :lol: militants AND PIRATES all together! but most of theese pirates are as i said politically neutral, and i didnt know they were cooperating, although i did know some of the ex-militants work for them...

but of course theire rich, they just hijacked capitalism. and they're gonna keep doing it. soon (hopefully) all of somalia will be rich.

or you would rather want them to be poor?:sneaky:

[Enragé]

a comrade told me a few days ago that the pirates upon return to their villages with the money and goods they stole are recieved like heroes. That wouldnt surprise me considering the level of poverty. Also, they're not part of the Islamic Councils (since they've vowed to put an end to piracy in a bid to please the west).

So, from what i can gather, i'd love to drink some rum with them! YARR!

[which doctor]

I thought you left SOI.

[bcbm]

It's not surprising. What would you do if you had jack shit, while enormous oil tankers and freighters regularly pass your shores with more value than you could ever imagine? Piracy plz.

And hey, if you have to kidnap or murder the crews of those ship, who are usually from just as desperate a background, no big deal right?

[YSR]

To be fair, many of these pirates started out because multinational commercial fishing companies started illegally fishing in Somali waters, which put small fishermen out of work. In order to find work, they turned to piracy.

There's a strong historical antecedent for piracy as resistance to the expansion of global capital. Check out the book The Many-Headed Hydra by Linebaugh and Redicker for more.

[Ismail]

While initial piracy may be due to being put out of work, that's beginning to change.

From The Australian:

"The pirates are making so much money," said one source in Bossaso, the capital of Puntland. "They have taken second wives, they are all building new homes and buying new cars, like the latest Land Cruiser." They are also acquiring satellite phones and GPS navigation equipment to co-ordinate operations. One expert in neighbouring Kenya claims the pirates have become so sophisticated that they are backed by "investors", who fund the upfront costs of hijackings in return for a share of the ransom.So basically this is becoming like the mafia or big gangs.

[Wanted Man]

And hey, if you have to kidnap or murder the crews of those ship, who are usually from just as desperate a background, no big deal right?
Exactly. There are unlikely to be any notions of class consciousness or internationalism there. I'm not saying I approve of them, but if you were dirt poor and thousands of huge tankers passed by your shores each day, I don't think you'd be like: "Wait, there are ordinary workers on board there. We should not harm them." To them, it is indeed no big deal. Of course, in time, it turns into a criminal business of its own, as organised crime begins to smell money, see Ismail's quotation.

NKOS: yeah, apparently the Islamic council are trying to stop piracy, especially now that a Saudi ship has been hijacked.

[bcbm]

I'm not saying I approve of them, but if you were dirt poor and thousands of huge tankers passed by your shores each day, I don't think you'd be like: "Wait, there are ordinary workers on board there. We should not harm them."

But many people here do seem to be expressing some level of support because the pirates steal from large multinationals (generally), or something on that order which I find to be a problematic position given what pirates have often done to the workers on board the ships they attack. It may make the most economic sense to become a pirate but that doesn't mean we need to cheer for it from the sidelines.

[Catbus]

Gotta admit, whether you support it or not it's pretty badass.

[KurtFF8]

Gotta admit, whether you support it or not it's pretty badass.

Organized crime may make for entertaining films/novels/video games but many people are negatively affected by it and it further divides the working class (just look at how influential organized crime got with labor unions in the United States).

This type of piracy/crime is a symptom (for lack of a better word) of the economic system that disfranchises so many people's access to necessary things, especially in places like Somalia.

[Plagueround]

Gotta admit, whether you support it or not it's pretty badass.

It really isn't. It is a bit concerning that people have become so desensitized (and infatuated with common internet fads like pirates and ninjas) that something like this would be viewed as cool or badass.

[bcbm]

Exactly. There's nothing awesome or badass about one group of poor people being forced into shooting another group of poor people for money.

[Catbus]

Yeah, that was a stupid statement and idea on my part.

[Severi]

but of course theire rich, they just hijacked capitalism. and they're gonna keep doing it. soon (hopefully) all of somalia will be rich.

or you would rather want them to be poor?:sneaky:

How does the piracy help the Somalian economy? Or do you think that the whole state's economy should be based on piracy? I don't think these pirates are going to invest their moneys to the Somalian infrastructure nor the Somalian industry.


There's a strong historical antecedent for piracy as resistance to the expansion of global capital.

And I thought privateers were supported by states thus being a money transition from one colonialist state to the other.

[Wanted Man]

It really isn't. It is a bit concerning that people have become so desensitized (and infatuated with common internet fads like pirates and ninjas) that something like this would be viewed as cool or badass.
This is a good point. There is really nothing "cool" about the fact that a vast part of the world is in such a bad state that people need to resort to organised crime to get any chance of a somewhat livable future. The whole popular media discourse about Somalia has been disgusting for a long time: "Somalia is a failed state" (as if it's the Somalis' fault...), "The islamists are taking over in Somalia, they must be saved" (because warlord rule is so much better), and now it's: "Oh, look, those oppressed people are resorting to piracy, how bad-ass. YARR!!!" Even some very good background articles on the subject have stupid headlines like "Ahoy!", "Yoho!", "Arrrr!"

On the other side of the coin, you also have people who roundly denounce the pirates, people who say "they have no right to do this, they should just sit back and die in poverty while multi-million dollar opportunities pass by under their noses, the states of India and Saudi Arabia are right to try and crush them". It's a shocking kind of elitism that is the second most common part of media discourse, after the whole "badass" Pirates of the Caribbean crap.

By the way, I would really like to read this book (http://www.marcusrediker.com/Books/Villains/Synopsis_of_Villains.htm) someday, which gives a very different interpretation of piracy in the Caribbean. David Rovics wrote the song "Black Flag Flying" about it.

Two good articles:

Somalia's Pirates Flourish in a Lawless Nation (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/world/africa/31pirates.html?_r=2&ref=world&oref=login) (NY Times)
Ahoy there! (http://www.economist.com/world/mideast-africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12650244) (Economist, with a stupid headline)

[Annie K.]

There's nothing awesome or badass about one group of poor people being forced into shooting another group of poor people for money.That may be not awesome, but that's what we intend to do as revolutionnaries. The difference of revenue between us in advanced capitalist states and their police and army is far less significant than the initial difference between somali fishmen and tankers crews.

But what sources have you got to say that they murder the crews ? wikipedia main article says that they are more like "Wait, there are ordinary workers from rich companies on board there. We should not harm them and then ask for a ransom.", and the list of the piracy acts off somali coasts since 2005 states only one death on the side of the crew "by a stray bullet during the boarding."


There are unlikely to be any notions of class consciousness or internationalism thereYeah. But I wouldn't reduce piracy to a rational economic choice. This is an experience of freedom, even if an uncomplete one.
The usual forms of organized crimes can only survive by avoiding direct confrontation with the most powerful classes of the society : their only way to make money is to take it from relatively poor classes. Somali piracy, as well as indonesian piracy, can only make money on the richer (and foreign) classes, and profit from the support of the poor population. As such, they cannot be organized as mafias.
And the nature itself of the attacks on the sea makes the hierarchy in the criminal organization more difficult to uphold. But that is less true if warlords are implicated.

[bcbm]

That may be not awesome, but that's what we intend to do as revolutionnaries. The difference of revenue between us in advanced capitalist states and their police and army is far less significant than the initial difference between somali fishmen and tankers crews.

And it isn't awesome then either. I don't share the bloodlust of many on the left and I while I believe I'm willing to do what is necessary to achieve liberation I am not gleeful over the prospect.


But what sources have you got to say that they murder the crews ? wikipedia main article says that they are more like "Wait, there are ordinary workers from rich companies on board there. We should not harm them and then ask for a ransom.", and the list of the piracy acts off somali coasts since 2005 states only one death on the side of the crew "by a stray bullet during the boarding."

Perhaps the Somali pirates are better in this regard then. Other major pirating centers see crews getting murdered and the ships resold.

[Annie K.]

Other major pirating centers see crews getting murdered and the ships resold.Still wikipedia :
For example in 2006, there were 239 attacks, 77 crew members were kidnapped and 188 taken hostage but only 15 of the pirate attacks resulted in murder.[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy#cite_note-31) In 2007 the attacks rose by 10% to 263 attacks. There was a 35% increase on reported attacks involving guns. Crew members that were injured numbered 64 compared to just 17 in 2006.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy#cite_note-ICC_piracy_report-32) That number does not include hostages/kidnapping where they were not injured. In some cases, modern pirates are not interested in the cargo and are mainly interested in taking the personal belongings of the crew and the contents of the ship's safe, which might contain large amounts of cash needed for payroll and port fees. In other cases, the pirates force the crew off the ship and then sail it to a port to be repainted and given a new identity through false papers often purchased from corrupt or complicit officials.[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy#cite_note-33)
Honestly, and personally, I can't say that i don't want to spill some blood : i'm frustrated, curious and not spontaneously inclined to respect human life. I will avoid it if I don't see a use for it, but that's not the bloodlust that lacks.
In fact, if in certain situations (as today's situation) I will avoid it, it would be more precisely because its negative consequences would nullify its uses. Badassness hasn't anything to do with murder, it's an incidental matter.

But what it is incidental to could be awesome or badass. And piracy isn't just about murder. So it could be awesome, though I don't know enough on modern days pirates to tell. The probabilities for it to be thoroughly like disney's pirates life are negligible, but the probabilities for it to be thoroughly like the worse we can imagine are negligible also.

I just refuse to judge them all from my bed, just on the reports of the number of death. That is interesting, but irrelevant.

[Guerrilla22]

This is what happens when you get a country like Somalia, a failed state, with absolutely no economic opprotunities what so ever, that is located near shipping lanes used by wealthy corporations to ship merchandise to the countries where they generally consumed. I can't say I wouldn't resort to piracy as well if I was in the same situation.

[Dust Bunnies]

Well, I can't blame the Somalians, they are living in a shithole, and while the poor shooting other poor is wrong... Corporations lose money, and villages get some money, so it is only slightly good.