View Full Version : My critiuq of the Redstar2000 Paper's - The Social Role of t
Taken from http://www.sawu.org/redstar2000/theory.php...nes&start_from= (http://www.sawu.org/redstar2000/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1054049721&archive=1054467213&cnshow=headlines&start_from=)
The Social Role of the Police, 27/05/2003 by RedStar2000
These are some rather "harsh" posts, at least in the opinions of some people. I maintain that there is no such thing as a "good cop" under capitalism...much to the dismay of those who have not yet understood the nature of class society.
One can only hope that they will learn better without having a nightstick broken over their skulls.
Errr Maybe if the people did not taunt the police in the first place then maybe they would not attack them!
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The question ought to be "what kind of security forces" would be useful under communism and what kind would be dangerous or even catastrophic?
"Professionalization" is the hallmark of "security" under capitalism. People make careers out of being cops, military personnel, internal security "experts", etc. The "professional" under capitalism does not concern himself with the social consequences of his daily work; he's just doing his job within whatever constraints might exist at any given moment. He "carries out his orders" no matter what they might be.
So, if he is ordered to apprehend a random sniper on a killing spree, he works as hard as he can to do that. If he is ordered to round up the jews to be executed, he works as hard as he can to do that, too. To him, it's all in a day's work.
This strongly suggests that we communists should advocate and implement the de-professionalization of all state functions involving violence or potential violence against the citizenry. Yes, you can, if you wish, do this kind of work for a few years...but you are not allowed to make a career out of it; you are not allowed to develop any kind of "professional detachment" from the social consequences of your work.
Violence or the threat of violence is dynamite in every social order. We should handle with care.
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First posted at Che-Lives on November 22, 2002
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It bothers me when people say "there are good cops." I don't understand what they mean by "good".
When we had a cop trolling our board a few months ago, I suggested a possible definition of a "good cop"...essentially one who had the eyes of an eagle when it came to tracking down murderers, rapists, etc. but who was blind as a bat when it came to persecuting hookers, junkies, drug dealers, the homeless, demonstrators, etc.
Naturally, I got the predictable response: "we don't make the law, we just enforce it."
Now consider what that really implies: if a cop is ordered to track down a murder, he does it. If he's ordered to beat the shit out of demonstrators, he does it. If he's ordered to round up the Jews for "special treatment" (execution), he DOES IT!
He's a professional who "carries out his orders" no matter what.
I suggest that such an "individual" is beyond good or evil; he has voluntarily surrendered his humanity and become a machine. Machines are not "good" or "bad"; machines either "work" or "don't work." That's all.
No one disputes the tautology that our enemy is the capitalist class. But it is the enemy's machines that directly confront us...it is this thing that looks like a human but acts like a machine that will kill us if it is ordered to do so (and may do that anyway, like any other potentially deadly malfunctioning machine.)
Please do not suggest that I am "dehumanizing" cops. No one makes you take up a career in "law enforcement" (real name: professional killer). They have dehumanized themselves.
Perhaps it will sound "harsh" to many ears...but there's no ethical difference between killing a cop and burning a cop car. They're both tools of our class enemy.
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First Posted at Che-Lives on February 23, 2003
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It seems to me that any social role that reduces people to the level of machines is, on its face, unacceptable.
I am quite sure that we will have social roles that fulfill some of the functions that police and judges fulfill under capitalism.
But this quasi-deification of the "Law" as a cover for known injustice cannot be permitted...otherwise, what's the difference between us and the old regime?
We've had some threads on this before and it would do no harm to have a new one...the details of the criminal justice system under socialism and communism are necessarily rather fuzzy at this point.
But any suggestion that all we have to do is run a red flag up outside the courthouse and otherwise proceed as normal is hopelessly naive and would simply re-create the outrages that characterize the present system.
Our goal as revolutionaries is not "Law" but justice. And while I would concede that "perfect justice" may be unattainable, it should be easy to surpass the wretched levels of the present society.
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First posted at Che-Lives on February 27, 2003
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The "blue culture" of the police is essentially a fascist culture.
What are the "virtues" of the police, the measure of human "merit"?
1. Physical courage.
No they do not as all they need are fitness tests and there are no height restrictions. E.g. I saw a 7tf policeman and I hear of one who are 5ft.
2. Solidarity even unto death with other police in the face of any external threat.
3. Sadistic brutality towards women, children, and anyone physically weaker or incapable of resistance.
No because statistics show that the larger the police officer the more likely they are to get attacked so they smaller you are the safer you are! And this demostares a sense of personal aim in trying to take out a larger police officer so it is not police brutality at all
PS. Have you even been at a protest redstar2000 with police and been involved in a brawl or a fight?
4. Racism.
No that it just you and your own out dated view of the world
5. Official Homophobia.
No that is just you gain Redstar
6. Total contempt for all who are not police.
No. They to join to help people not to kill them. And even if they were found out to be doing then they would be fired
7. Rampant corruption.
No.
8. And most important of all: obedience to authority.
You need obedience to authority you retard just like in the army or the service does not work also in schools and employment
This is the "blue culture" in general. It's not to say that every single cop is a rabid fascist turd...at least not in the beginning. A new cop may be, and most likely is predisposed to be comfortable in this environment...but he still has to learn the details of expected behavior and opinion.
None of them are facist turds you are a facist turd
There are always naive people who join the police force to "help people" (stop laughing, I'm serious). Within two or three years they quit...often getting a transfer to the fire department.
Yes the police do try and help a lot of people e.g. on drug programs and rehabilitation but some of course will not change so you can’t say that the police did not help them!
It's always difficult to predict how things will "play out" in revolutionary circumstances. Most likely, cops will be a large part of the initial wave of exiles/refugees from any country with a socialist revolution...this was the case with Cuba, for example. The ones that fail to escape immediately will probably be tried for crimes against humanity and, if convicted, executed.
Under no circumstances should an ex-cop be allowed to become involved in "law enforcement" in a post-revolutionary era. That would just be asking for grief.
Police are always on duty even when they are official not on duty.
As to class origins, most police have traditionally been recruited from "upwardly mobile" working class families. In Marxist terms, they are conscious traitors to the working class.
It's interesting to note that when Hitler took power in Germany, fully one-third of the Berlin Police Department was fired/retired. That means, of course, that two-thirds of that city's cops had no problems with Nazism at all.
It's probably even worse in America now.
Why don’t you join the police redstar2000 and try and change things and stop ranting about what you will not change or maybe you haven’t joined because you would fail the academic tests and the physical test due to your smoking!
Also redstar200 you also make posts about workers getting killed on whatever in protests but you also fail to post stories of workers whining improved rights. E.g. this: -
]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/29...2967960.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/2967960.stm[/b)
(Edited by RAM at 5:36 pm on June 16, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
16th June 2003, 17:21
The layout makes it very hard indeed to read this and see where your critique is, because it seems to be embedded within the original text. Use of the bold and italic functions would make it a lot easier to read...
--- G.
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 17:25
Jesus Christ RAM you have given this a lot of thought I can see, well RS2000 what do you say to this exactly?
I just had another thought oh yes redstar also always mentions the Jews as well why not any other religion?
(Edited by RAM at 5:43 pm on June 16, 2003)
anti machine
16th June 2003, 17:32
Critique? I see no "point" which you made (if they can be called points at all) that contradicted anything Redstar said. This is one of the more juvenile arguments I've seen. All I observe is ungrounded rhetoric. THis is the silliest post I've seen in quite awhile. I don't even know why I'm justifying this with a response.
Jesus mother-fucking Christ.
Quote: from anti machine on 5:32 pm on June 16, 2003
Critique? I see no "point" which you made (if they can be called points at all) that contradicted anything Redstar said. This is one of the more juvenile arguments I've seen. All I observe is ungrounded rhetoric. THis is the silliest post I've seen in quite awhile. I don't even know why I'm justifying this with a response.
Jesus mother-fucking Christ.
Well don't post then and why do you need to say "Jesus mother-fucking Christ. "???
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 17:41
Quote: from anti machine on 5:32 pm on June 16, 2003
Critique? I see no "point" which you made (if they can be called points at all) that contradicted anything Redstar said. This is one of the more juvenile arguments I've seen. All I observe is ungrounded rhetoric. THis is the silliest post I've seen in quite awhile. I don't even know why I'm justifying this with a response.
Jesus mother-fucking Christ.
Whats the point in posting at all. This post is no more pointless than a discussion on a long dead socialist philosipher with a big white beard. At least RAM is viewing the arguments of RS2000 and discussing them, which happens to be the point of a forum to discuss different opinions.
So the thread has a very valid point, arguing with a contraversial set of statments.
Moskitto
16th June 2003, 17:43
3. Sadistic brutality towards women, children, and anyone physically weaker or incapable of resistance.
Police officers are get this Forbidden to use handcuffs on women, children, the elderly, or use handcuffs on ankles or to attach people to fixed objects.
anti machine
16th June 2003, 17:48
I'm not done. It is pitiful that RAM continues to refer to himself as an intellectual. I can't even conjur the words necessary to express my pity and anger that someone can be this goddamn self-righteously dumb and still drum up respect from even lesser beings on this site.
You're all over the place. You pull random quotes out of your ass that, quite frankly, make little to no sense. do not expect anyone's sympathy. You are a rambling idiot. Your arguments are not worthy of being picked apart. They do this themselves simply by existing. IF you truly wish to analyze someone's argument, pick something on your own level. One fish Two fish for instance.
I reiterate-Jesus Mother Fucking Christ!
Quote: from anti machine on 5:48 pm on June 16, 2003
I'm not done. It is pitiful that RAM continues to refer to himself as an intellectual. I can't even conjur the words necessary to express my pity and anger that someone can be this goddamn self-righteously dumb and still drum up respect from even lesser beings on this site.
You're all over the place. You pull random quotes out of your ass that, quite frankly, make little to no sense. do not expect anyone's sympathy. You are a rambling idiot. Your arguments are not worthy of being picked apart. They do this themselves simply by existing. IF you truly wish to analyze someone's argument, pick something on your own level. One fish Two fish for instance.
I reiterate-Jesus Mother Fucking Christ!
Mmmm no I prefer more challeging issues e.g is time in the mind?
etc
I have also never refered myself as an interlectual in this topic and I never actually said intellectual just expert. Oh look you are quoating out of your ARSE anti machine!!!!!
(Edited by RAM at 6:03 pm on June 16, 2003)
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 17:59
Quote: from anti machine on 5:48 pm on June 16, 2003
I'm not done. It is pitiful that RAM continues to refer to himself as an intellectual. I can't even conjur the words necessary to express my pity and anger that someone can be this goddamn self-righteously dumb and still drum up respect from even lesser beings on this site.
You're all over the place. You pull random quotes out of your ass that, quite frankly, make little to no sense. do not expect anyone's sympathy. You are a rambling idiot. Your arguments are not worthy of being picked apart. They do this themselves simply by existing. IF you truly wish to analyze someone's argument, pick something on your own level. One fish Two fish for instance.
I reiterate-Jesus Mother Fucking Christ!
that someone can be this goddamn self-righteously dumb and still drum up respect from even lesser beings on this site.
Are you refering to me???
If so come on then ass-hole bring it on!!! If you think im a lesser being then I challange you to an argument on any of my views that make me some how lesser than your elitist self.
Dhul Fiqar
16th June 2003, 18:00
Moskitto: I find it VERY hard to believe that all women are exempt from handcuffs, in fact I know it to be completely false. Perhaps in some extremely strange place, but generally speaking I have seen enough handcuffed women to know that it is common practice to handcuff any adult arrested.
Hell, even my 14 year old friends were all handcuffed, some even beaten, after a party we were at got busted.
To quote the Simpsons: "Damnit, the cuffs keep slipping off the little girl. Now, just wait there Maggie, I've got some babycuffs in the car!" :)
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:00 pm on June 16, 2003
Moskitto: I find it VERY hard to believe that all women are exempt from handcuffs, in fact I know it to be completely false. Perhaps in some extremely strange place, but generally speaking I have seen enough handcuffed women to know that it is common practice to handcuff any adult arrested.
Hell, even my 14 year old friends were all handcuffed, some even beaten, after a party we were at got busted.
To quote the Simpsons: "Damnit, the cuffs keep slipping off the little girl. Now, just wait there Maggie, I've got some babycuffs in the car!" :)
--- G.
Err OK!
Dhul Fiqar
16th June 2003, 18:03
Oh, and in AmeriKKKa suspects are routinely handcuffed to steel bars especially installed at special benches while they are processed, and always handcuffed to fixtures in the prison transport vans when being transferred between mid to high security facilities. So much for not being handcuffed to objects.
--- G.
anti machine
16th June 2003, 18:05
seriously RAM, if you want to taken seriously you've got to stop posing as a philosopher. "Is time in the mind"? Wow. That's original. Ponder away.
anti machine
16th June 2003, 18:06
what would you like to discuss AK?
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 18:10
Quote: from anti machine on 6:06 pm on June 16, 2003
what would you like to discuss AK?
Not only are you an elitist prick you also cant read, how can my sentance be made clearer: -
Are you refering to me???
If so come on then ass-hole bring it on!!! If you think im a lesser being then I challange you to an argument on any of my views that make me some how lesser than your elitist self.
Like I said then, I challange you to any view I have which makes me a lesser Mortal than you.
anti machine
16th June 2003, 18:12
I read it alright. But short of researching the archives in search of one of your "arguments" it would be simpler to present one here.
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 18:15
Quote: from anti machine on 6:12 pm on June 16, 2003
I read it alright. But short of researching the archives in search of one of your "arguments" it would be simpler to present one here.
The argument I have made which obviously makes you think that I am a lesser being.
Quote: from anti machine on 6:05 pm on June 16, 2003
seriously RAM, if you want to taken seriously you've got to stop posing as a philosopher. "Is time in the mind"? Wow. That's original. Ponder away.
Err it depends what part of Philosophy you study e.g.
Epistemology
Metaphysics
Ethics
Aesthetics
Politics
Logic
Also Philosophy will continue in the future and I could think of orignal questions e.g. where does logic come from?
(Edited by RAM at 6:44 pm on June 16, 2003)
anti machine
16th June 2003, 18:24
which one AK? Your theory that revolution is a last resort and the poor justification thereof? Redstar already did that for me. You resort to accusing those who expose your arguments as illeterate or retarded. Redstar has taken it upon himself to descend like a ravenous vulture to your poorly structured arguments. Next time you post one, I'll jump right in. How's that?
Moskitto
16th June 2003, 18:53
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:00 pm on June 16, 2003
Moskitto: I find it VERY hard to believe that all women are exempt from handcuffs, in fact I know it to be completely false. Perhaps in some extremely strange place, but generally speaking I have seen enough handcuffed women to know that it is common practice to handcuff any adult arrested.
Hell, even my 14 year old friends were all handcuffed, some even beaten, after a party we were at got busted.
To quote the Simpsons: "Damnit, the cuffs keep slipping off the little girl. Now, just wait there Maggie, I've got some babycuffs in the car!" :)
--- G.
4 things
1. Police tell people as part of education that they are not allowed to handcuff women or children, telling people this would open them upto litigation if they did it. So why do it, particularly if it's untrue?
2. You are refering to US police which being a federal state has regional variations to police regulations, we are refering to UK police as this is where we reside which is a centralised state and has blanket regulations for all police activity.
3. Handcuffing within special police transit vechicles is legal and justified as it prevents a gang of rapists escaping arrest by smashing their way out of the transit vechicle.
4. The Simpsons is a cartoon, a reference from The Simpsons is not neccesarily based on real life.
Anyway, the police don't actually prosecute anyone, the CPS do. The Police just look for criminals and keep protests under control to stop protesters killing each other and those around them and occasionally assist people in unnusual circumstances such as when we found an extremely senile man walking in the middle of a duel carriageway.
The Police in the UK also are better than the US police as they can disarm gun mem through talking rather than by threatening to use a gun on them!
Yes the police also have to be pratical as well with when to handcuff. They can also use pain compliance as a weapon if they don't want to handcuff the person e.g. if they are in the police station and the criminal needs to be put into a cell
(Edited by RAM at 7:08 pm on June 16, 2003)
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 19:28
Quote: from anti machine on 6:24 pm on June 16, 2003
which one AK? Your theory that revolution is a last resort and the poor justification thereof? Redstar already did that for me. You resort to accusing those who expose your arguments as illeterate or retarded. Redstar has taken it upon himself to descend like a ravenous vulture to your poorly structured arguments. Next time you post one, I'll jump right in. How's that?
RS2000 proved nothing except his ability to regurgatate his same boring old argument about Iraq. If you had actually bothered reading the thread you would also see that I never called him a "retard". So you want to jump in then, what with more lie's like the one you just posted? If you do I garantee I will beat you.
OK you want an argument how about the ones I made about the invalidity of the term Bourgeoisie in modern socialist terminology?
(Edited by AK47 at 7:42 pm on June 16, 2003)
Urban Rubble
16th June 2003, 19:46
AK, why are you always so quick to jump up in RAM's defense ? Everytime someone says something aginst RAM you are there to defend him, let him defend himself, you're not his watchdog.
Let me just re post some of RAM's briliant "points".
"No. They to join to help people not to kill them. And even if they were found out to be doing then they would be fired "
"You need obedience to authority you retard just like in the army or the service does not work also in schools and employment "
"No because statistics show that the larger the police officer the more likely they are to get attacked so they smaller you are the safer you are! And this demostares a sense of personal aim in trying to take out a larger police officer so it is not police brutality at all "
See what I mean ? The guy can't even put together a cohesive sentence. I can barely understand what the fuck he's trying to say. You'd think someone as "intelligent" as RAM could at least form a decent sentence, he can't. I don't even need to refute his points because he made none.
RAM, you could be a phsycology proffesor, it still wouldn't excuse the fact that your grammar skills are on a 4th grade level.
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 19:55
OK UR I will let him defend himself, but dont attack people's grammar as it usually ends up with people like you appologising to a person whome it seams is dyslexic, just a word of advise for the future.
Moskitto
16th June 2003, 19:58
I have no problem understanding his points, admittedly his posts are filled with typos which are generally 1 letter in 1 word, however "And this demonstates a sense of personal aim in trying to take out a larger police officer so it is not police brutality at all" is fairly easy to understand, its psychologically more appealling to pick on a bigger person because the sense of shame is limited because you can always know you were beaten by someone bigger than you.
Sabocat
16th June 2003, 20:02
Quote: from Moskitto on 11:53 pm on June 16, 2003
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:00 pm on June 16, 2003
Moskitto: I find it VERY hard to believe that all women are exempt from handcuffs, in fact I know it to be completely false. Perhaps in some extremely strange place, but generally speaking I have seen enough handcuffed women to know that it is common practice to handcuff any adult arrested.
Hell, even my 14 year old friends were all handcuffed, some even beaten, after a party we were at got busted.
To quote the Simpsons: "Damnit, the cuffs keep slipping off the little girl. Now, just wait there Maggie, I've got some babycuffs in the car!" :)
--- G.
4 things
1. Police tell people as part of education that they are not allowed to handcuff women or children, telling people this would open them upto litigation if they did it. So why do it, particularly if it's untrue?
2. You are refering to US police which being a federal state has regional variations to police regulations, we are refering to UK police as this is where we reside which is a centralised state and has blanket regulations for all police activity.
3. Handcuffing within special police transit vechicles is legal and justified as it prevents a gang of rapists escaping arrest by smashing their way out of the transit vechicle.
4. The Simpsons is a cartoon, a reference from The Simpsons is not neccesarily based on real life.
Anyway, the police don't actually prosecute anyone, the CPS do. The Police just look for criminals and keep protests under control to stop protesters killing each other and those around them and occasionally assist people in unnusual circumstances such as when we found an extremely senile man walking in the middle of a duel carriageway.
Each state in the U$ has it's own State Police and local municipality police. None that I know of have restrictions againts handcuffing women and children. I know absolutely, there is no problem with it in Massachusetts. In some cases while arresting protestors, they will even resort to using wire or zip ties, which usually are more painful.
As to RAM's argument with Redstar's piece, the point that was being made was that police are tools of capitalism and corporations. If police are ordered to bring workers across picket lines, they do it. If they are ordered to arrest people at demonstrations (whether the assembly is legal or not) they do it. The very nature of police is that they are mindless automatons of the system. In the U$ anyway, the police have shown time and time again, their willingness to assist corporations. A quick look at what the police are doing in Cambodia right now to striking workers, is a pretty good display of police action.
Quote: from Urban Rubble on 7:46 pm on June 16, 2003
AK, why are you always so quick to jump up in RAM's defense ? Everytime someone says something aginst RAM you are there to defend him, let him defend himself, you're not his watchdog.
Let me just re post some of RAM's briliant "points".
"No. They to join to help people not to kill them. And even if they were found out to be doing then they would be fired "
"You need obedience to authority you retard just like in the army or the service does not work also in schools and employment "
"No because statistics show that the larger the police officer the more likely they are to get attacked so they smaller you are the safer you are! And this demostares a sense of personal aim in trying to take out a larger police officer so it is not police brutality at all "
See what I mean ? The guy can't even put together a cohesive sentence. I can barely understand what the fuck he's trying to say. You'd think someone as "intelligent" as RAM could at least form a decent sentence, he can't. I don't even need to refute his points because he made none.
RAM, you could be a phsycology proffesor, it still wouldn't excuse the fact that your grammar skills are on a 4th grade level.
I DO NOT WANT TO BE A FUCKING phsycology proffesor you retard! I have never ever said that! You make stuff up! If anyhting I would to be a Philosophy or a Geography Proffesor
You have made the error twice that I want to be a phsycology proffesor when I do not! FOOL Urban Rubble!
I still do not know where you got the idea that I want to be a phsycology proffesor from Urban Rubble?
(Edited by RAM at 8:26 pm on June 16, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 8:35 pm on June 16, 2003)
Quote: from Disgustapated on 8:02 pm on June 16, 2003
Quote: from Moskitto on 11:53 pm on June 16, 2003
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:00 pm on June 16, 2003
Moskitto: I find it VERY hard to believe that all women are exempt from handcuffs, in fact I know it to be completely false. Perhaps in some extremely strange place, but generally speaking I have seen enough handcuffed women to know that it is common practice to handcuff any adult arrested.
Hell, even my 14 year old friends were all handcuffed, some even beaten, after a party we were at got busted.
To quote the Simpsons: "Damnit, the cuffs keep slipping off the little girl. Now, just wait there Maggie, I've got some babycuffs in the car!" :)
--- G.
4 things
1. Police tell people as part of education that they are not allowed to handcuff women or children, telling people this would open them upto litigation if they did it. So why do it, particularly if it's untrue?
2. You are refering to US police which being a federal state has regional variations to police regulations, we are refering to UK police as this is where we reside which is a centralised state and has blanket regulations for all police activity.
3. Handcuffing within special police transit vechicles is legal and justified as it prevents a gang of rapists escaping arrest by smashing their way out of the transit vechicle.
4. The Simpsons is a cartoon, a reference from The Simpsons is not neccesarily based on real life.
Anyway, the police don't actually prosecute anyone, the CPS do. The Police just look for criminals and keep protests under control to stop protesters killing each other and those around them and occasionally assist people in unnusual circumstances such as when we found an extremely senile man walking in the middle of a duel carriageway.
Each state in the U$ has it's own State Police and local municipality police. None that I know of have restrictions againts handcuffing women and children. I know absolutely, there is no problem with it in Massachusetts. In some cases while arresting protestors, they will even resort to using wire or zip ties, which usually are more painful.
As to RAM's argument with Redstar's piece, the point that was being made was that police are tools of capitalism and corporations. If police are ordered to bring workers across picket lines, they do it. If they are ordered to arrest people at demonstrations (whether the assembly is legal or not) they do it. The very nature of police is that they are mindless automatons of the system. In the U$ anyway, the police have shown time and time again, their willingness to assist corporations. A quick look at what the police are doing in Cambodia right now to striking workers, is a pretty good display of police action.
What do you want the police to do take sides? They can't and often the police are caught in the middle and are in a very difficult position! Weather or not there actions are right are a diffrent matter but of course they work for the goverment and for the people!
(Edited by RAM at 8:36 pm on June 16, 2003)
anti machine
16th June 2003, 20:40
urban...I am, to my amazement, in complete agreement. But It's not his grammar that makes his "ideas" any simpler. It's difficult to get through his structure errors yes, but this is not the most obvious reason to ridicule him. His thoughts themselves offer ample material for an easy tearing-apart, critisism that I tire of creating.
Quote: from anti machine on 8:40 pm on June 16, 2003
urban...I am, to my amazement, in complete agreement. But It's not his grammar that makes his "ideas" any simpler. It's difficult to get through his structure errors yes, but this is not the most obvious reason to ridicule him. His thoughts themselves offer ample material for an easy tearing-apart, critisism that I tire of creating.
What are you talking about! Urban Rubble made no point at all just talked about my spelling and grammer! And that did not contribute to the thread at all!
(Edited by RAM at 8:51 pm on June 16, 2003)
anti machine
16th June 2003, 20:51
"I don't even need to refute his points because he made none."-urban rubble
THis, I believe, is not only the truth but an attack against your arguments, not your grammar. He went on indicate that your sentences are illegible.
AK, I was referring to numerous posts where you and Redstar have it out. These "debates" are one-sided, with Redstar completely dominating the subject of discussion. I simply cannot understand why you fail to see where you have been trampled into the ground.
I admire your tenacity, but a poodle with a broken leg is no match for an adolescent pit bull. It should know where it cannot win, instead of returning to the fight each time, unaware of its impending demise, sustaining more and more injuries with every attempt.
Urban Rubble
16th June 2003, 20:51
My point is this, AK seems to think you are some kind of genius, you are not. I posted the grammar errors because they are so rampant it makes you look like a moron, you may not be, but you aren't smart. I chose the easiest way to point this out, maybe I should have picked apart your "genius" "points".
RAM, sorry, I keep saying phsycology when I mean philosophy, I'm so fucking sorry.
Quote: from Urban Rubble on 8:51 pm on June 16, 2003
My point is this, AK seems to think you are some kind of genius, you are not. I posted the grammar errors because they are so rampant it makes you look like a moron, you may not be, but you aren't smart. I chose the easiest way to point this out, maybe I should have picked apart your "genius" "points".
RAM, sorry, I keep saying phsycology when I mean philosophy, I'm so fucking sorry.
You better be!
I would like you to pick apart my points please do Urban Rubble!
(Edited by RAM at 8:56 pm on June 16, 2003)
anti machine
16th June 2003, 21:02
points?
Re-posting your "argument" suffices for picking apart your post.
(Edited by anti machine at 9:02 pm on June 16, 2003)
Corvus Corax
16th June 2003, 21:07
Listen ppl put your fucking handbags down!
Every time i come on a thread it usually degenerates into a little war of insults and this one has got on my nerves. All RAM wanted to do was criticise, which there is no problem in doing, as we can all have our own opinion. But then you come on and hurl abuse at him without even understanding what he's trying to say, you criticise his use of grammar - for all you know he might not be english - and you say how pointless his post is. Don't be fucking hypocrites. If you don't like his post don't fucking post after it, or at least keep it as a clean talking debate.
Corvus
Quote: from Corvus Corax on 9:07 pm on June 16, 2003
Listen ppl put your fucking handbags down!
Every time i come on a thread it usually degenerates into a little war of insults and this one has got on my nerves. All RAM wanted to do was criticise, which there is no problem in doing, as we can all have our own opinion. But then you come on and hurl abuse at him without even understanding what he's trying to say, you criticise his use of grammar - for all you know he might not be english - and you say how pointless his post is. Don't be fucking hypocrites. If you don't like his post don't fucking post after it, or at least keep it as a clean talking debate.
Corvus
Thank you!
Sabocat
16th June 2003, 22:06
Quote: from RAM on 1:28 am on June 17, 2003
Quote: from Disgustapated on 8:02 pm on June 16, 2003
Quote: from Moskitto on 11:53 pm on June 16, 2003
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:00 pm on June 16, 2003
Moskitto: I find it VERY hard to believe that all women are exempt from handcuffs, in fact I know it to be completely false. Perhaps in some extremely strange place, but generally speaking I have seen enough handcuffed women to know that it is common practice to handcuff any adult arrested.
Hell, even my 14 year old friends were all handcuffed, some even beaten, after a party we were at got busted.
To quote the Simpsons: "Damnit, the cuffs keep slipping off the little girl. Now, just wait there Maggie, I've got some babycuffs in the car!" :)
--- G.
4 things
1. Police tell people as part of education that they are not allowed to handcuff women or children, telling people this would open them upto litigation if they did it. So why do it, particularly if it's untrue?
2. You are refering to US police which being a federal state has regional variations to police regulations, we are refering to UK police as this is where we reside which is a centralised state and has blanket regulations for all police activity.
3. Handcuffing within special police transit vechicles is legal and justified as it prevents a gang of rapists escaping arrest by smashing their way out of the transit vechicle.
4. The Simpsons is a cartoon, a reference from The Simpsons is not neccesarily based on real life.
Anyway, the police don't actually prosecute anyone, the CPS do. The Police just look for criminals and keep protests under control to stop protesters killing each other and those around them and occasionally assist people in unnusual circumstances such as when we found an extremely senile man walking in the middle of a duel carriageway.
Each state in the U$ has it's own State Police and local municipality police. None that I know of have restrictions againts handcuffing women and children. I know absolutely, there is no problem with it in Massachusetts. In some cases while arresting protestors, they will even resort to using wire or zip ties, which usually are more painful.
As to RAM's argument with Redstar's piece, the point that was being made was that police are tools of capitalism and corporations. If police are ordered to bring workers across picket lines, they do it. If they are ordered to arrest people at demonstrations (whether the assembly is legal or not) they do it. The very nature of police is that they are mindless automatons of the system. In the U$ anyway, the police have shown time and time again, their willingness to assist corporations. A quick look at what the police are doing in Cambodia right now to striking workers, is a pretty good display of police action.
What do you want the police to do take sides? They can't and often the police are caught in the middle and are in a very difficult position! Weather or not there actions are right are a diffrent matter but of course they work for the goverment and for the people!
(Edited by RAM at 8:36 pm on June 16, 2003)
Do I want the police to take sides? You bet I do. If it's a choice between firing wooden or rubber bullets into a peaceful crowd of protestors, then yes, I would hope that you would want to take sides. It proves that you have no conscience of your own, that you will do whatever is ordered of you.
You're caught in the middle unable to make a real choice? It's this lack of choice as you put it, that makes you a danger to revolution and to change everywhere. Acting as mindless automatons.
It's this mentallity that gets people "accidentally" killed.
Have you read about the DeAlo (sp) case in New York, where the police shot this innocent (black) person 42 times? I suppose they were just following orders. Who exactly are they protecting again? Because to me, it didn't look like they were protecting his civil rights very well.
What about Abner Louema? Anally raped with a broom handle in a mop closet by a couple of cops at the police station. I wonder if his civil rights were being protected?
(Edited by Disgustapated at 3:09 am on June 17, 2003)
Have you read about the DeAlo (sp) case in New York, where the police shot this innocent (black) person 42 times? I suppose they were just following orders. Who exactly are they protecting again? Because to me, it didn't look like they were protecting his civil rights very well.
Diallo I think.
Well this wouldn't fall under 'following orders' per say, I think this one goes back to redstars points about cops sadism and rascism
The man took out his wallet, so the two police officers fired 41 shots at him, it means they reloaded three times. A bit more than being startled.
Neither of them got any punishment at all. Apparently it was decided that it was 'justified'.
These things really aren't that uncommon.
I would say that it is the exception and not the rule.
Invader Zim
16th June 2003, 22:43
Quote: from anti machine on 8:51 pm on June 16, 2003
AK, I was referring to numerous posts where you and Redstar have it out. These "debates" are one-sided, with Redstar completely dominating the subject of discussion. I simply cannot understand why you fail to see where you have been trampled into the ground.
I admire your tenacity, but a poodle with a broken leg is no match for an adolescent pit bull. It should know where it cannot win, instead of returning to the fight each time, unaware of its impending demise, sustaining more and more injuries with every attempt.
I get trammpled ehh? Then please explain how this is being trampled (Do forgive me for not posting the whole tread in detail, but I dont want to be here all night. These specific parts will do nicely for examples of the whole thread's progress.): -
RS2000
I can understand, even if I have considerable distaste for, your admiration of Robert Owen. The benevolent "lord" giving generously to his cap-in-hand servants is one of your old English traditions.
AK47
Robert Owen was not a "Lord", he was born the son of a ironmonger, where as Marx was the son of a member of the capitalist classes.
Robert Owen also gave all his money to his workers so he died in abject poverty. Try reading a little socialist history.
I think you will find that RS2000 did not trample my argument there or anywhere else in that particular thread, more the other way around.
Lets have another example.
RS2000
Marx assumed on the basis of observing the transition from feudalism to capitalism that the working class would come to power by revolution and would proceed to smash the old bourgeois state and set up a new one, designed for the working class to use.
AK47
That is another example of how Marxism is obsolite at least in the western world. Feudalism is no-longer a system in use in the west. Marx's theorys revolve around the over throw of a feudal socioty, how can this be done in a socioty which is not Feudalistic. Also the Bourgeoisie, as in the French rich middle classes, are no-longer in existance as are the landed or Émigré’s. How can you overthrow a group which no-longer exists in any practical forms.
RS2000
How can you fail to understand the obvious; if feudalism was overthrown by capitalism through the mechanism of revolution, why should it happen differently when the time comes for the working class to overthrow the capitalist class?
AK47
This again highlights your ignorance of History, the capitalist system which we have to-day was not the result of a revolution but the result of centurys of parlimentary reform which excelerated in the 19th century. The Feudal system was never overthrown it was mearly transformed into the capitalist systems you see.
Not particularly supprisingly RS2000 made no further persuit of that part of the argument rather like the rest of the points I made in the whole thread... the same one you said I was trammpled in and used as an example of my defeat, I hardly see how I was beaten, all RS2000 attacks were pulled to pieces with out much difficulty.
Must I give yet more evidance of how your arguments of my mental inefficency are flawed? Or have you had enough?
Moskitto
16th June 2003, 22:43
Quote: from Som on 10:21 pm on June 16, 2003
Have you read about the DeAlo (sp) case in New York, where the police shot this innocent (black) person 42 times? I suppose they were just following orders. Who exactly are they protecting again? Because to me, it didn't look like they were protecting his civil rights very well.
Diallo I think.
Well this wouldn't fall under 'following orders' per say, I think this one goes back to redstars points about cops sadism and rascism
The man took out his wallet, so the two police officers fired 41 shots at him, it means they reloaded three times. A bit more than being startled.
Neither of them got any punishment at all. Apparently it was decided that it was 'justified'.
These things really aren't that uncommon.
There was a spate of these a while back after people, who just happened to be walking through some of the more dangerous areas of cities (eg. Cardiff, Nottingham, Brixton) where police snipers are occasionally used, took out cigarette lighters shaped like guns and were sniped because the sniper couldn't safely tell the difference, however the media attention these got changed police practices so these aren't so common.
redstar2000
16th June 2003, 23:56
Funny...5 hours ago, when I logged off, this thread did not exist. Now it's 5 pages long and growing.
Needless to say, RAM's "critiuq" of my posts on the social role of the police is too pathetic to merit a reply...especially since his own words demonstrate that he didn't even understand what I was saying.
Besides, that's not what this thread is about...it's just another variation of "Why We Hate Redstar2000" from the three stooges of Che-Lives.
Consider the sources:
AK47, the "posh socialist" who thinks that the British Empire was "nasty but necessary" and has the same opinion regarding U.S.-British imperialism in Iraq.
His trusty sidekick, RAM, the semi-literate spam-meister.
And Moskitto, the neo-puritan cop-wannabe.
The outstanding characteristic of these three poseurs (none of them are leftists)--aside from their demonstrated inability to either grasp or present a coherent argument about anything--is their conception of Che-Lives as an "arena" where "debates" are "won" or "lost".
Sort of like a text-based "video game".
And since they feel they are always consistently "losing", then their reaction is to flame the "winner".
The idea that people at Che-Lives could exchange serious political views without worrying about anything so infantile as "winning" or "losing" a "debate" lies far outside their rather limited mental landscapes.
Well, that's just how they are. There's no law that says that all the kids at Che-Lives have to be bright and rebellious and very much worth talking with...a few conservative, puritanical, and not-too-bright kids will show up from time to time.
If they confined themselves to Chit-Chat or the Lounge, it's quite possible I would be completely unaware of their existence.
But if you guys post in the serious forums and say stupid things, I will, in all likelihood, criticize what you say severely. It is not a personal matter with me...it's a matter of developing a coherent understanding of social reality and how to change it.
I know you will take it personally and I can't help that. I know you will start threads like this one again and again, and I can't help that either.
What else can I say?
:cool:
Anonymous
17th June 2003, 00:19
This strongly suggests that we communists should advocate and implement the de-professionalization of all state functions involving violence or potential violence against the citizenry. Yes, you can, if you wish, do this kind of work for a few years...but you are not allowed to make a career out of it; you are not allowed to develop any kind of "professional detachment" from the social consequences of your work.
I suppose you've never had to mess with volunteer firefighters before. You know, the kind townships have. My father, a professsional firefighter, had to deal with their asses for 30 some odd years. They were constantly fucking up on something. Always inexperienced and untrained. Dozens of houses and even a few lives were lost over the years because of their unprofessionalism.
And you what to fucking do the same with the police?
Your out of your goddamned mind.
(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 7:23 pm on June 16, 2003)
anti machine
17th June 2003, 01:28
"That is another example of how Marxism is obsolite at least in the western world. Feudalism is no-longer a system in use in the west. Marx's theorys revolve around the over throw of a feudal socioty, how can this be done in a socioty which is not Feudalistic. Also the Bourgeoisie, as in the French rich middle classes, are no-longer in existance as are the landed or Émigré’s. How can you overthrow a group which no-longer exists in any practical forms."
Here is an EXCELLENT example of AK considering himself to have understood redstar's argument. He sees the word "feudalism" and starts his writing. Had he looked closer, he would have noticed, quite plainly, that redstar makes special reference to Marx observing the evolution of feudalism into capitalism. AK even posts it again, expecting to prove a point, and still fails to see that he has refuted nothing redstar said, but only added to his deteriorating reputation here.
BUt no matter what I say, AK will continue to believe he has "won", not only because he views the exchange of thought as a competition but because he has invented a delusion in which he never loses, existing only in his mind. That's your reality bud, and I'd hate to be in your shoes.
(Edited by anti machine at 1:35 am on June 17, 2003)
redstar2000
17th June 2003, 02:55
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 6:19 pm on June 16, 2003
This strongly suggests that we communists should advocate and implement the de-professionalization of all state functions involving violence or potential violence against the citizenry. Yes, you can, if you wish, do this kind of work for a few years...but you are not allowed to make a career out of it; you are not allowed to develop any kind of "professional detachment" from the social consequences of your work.
I suppose you've never had to mess with volunteer firefighters before. You know, the kind townships have. My father, a professsional firefighter, had to deal with their asses for 30 some odd years. They were constantly fucking up on something. Always inexperienced and untrained. Dozens of houses and even a few lives were lost over the years because of their unprofessionalism.
And you what to fucking do the same with the police?
Your out of your goddamned mind.
(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 7:23 pm on June 16, 2003)
Note carefully, DC, that nothing was ever said by me concerning fire-fighting.
Your assumption is that an "unprofessional" police authority would be "much worse" than what we have now...a gang of fascist bastards who will "carry out their orders" no matter what.
I disrespectfully disagree.
:cool:
PS: I wonder what the real reason is for your father's hostility to volunteer firemen? Perhaps they are not as effective as professionals...but, as I understand it, in many isolated rural communities, there's no one else to call. If volunteer firemen didn't exist, more houses would burn to the ground and more lives would be lost.
Cynic that I am, I suspect something more is going on with your old man than the volunteers' lack of "professionalism"...but you would know better than I what that might be.
Urban Rubble
17th June 2003, 03:22
Sadism and Racism ? Well according to RAM those things don't exist among police.
Dhul Fiqar
17th June 2003, 07:02
Quote: from Moskitto on 2:53 am on June 17, 2003
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:00 pm on June 16, 2003
Moskitto: I find it VERY hard to believe that all women are exempt from handcuffs, in fact I know it to be completely false. Perhaps in some extremely strange place, but generally speaking I have seen enough handcuffed women to know that it is common practice to handcuff any adult arrested.
Hell, even my 14 year old friends were all handcuffed, some even beaten, after a party we were at got busted.
To quote the Simpsons: "Damnit, the cuffs keep slipping off the little girl. Now, just wait there Maggie, I've got some babycuffs in the car!" :)
--- G.
4 things
1. Police tell people as part of education that they are not allowed to handcuff women or children, telling people this would open them upto litigation if they did it. So why do it, particularly if it's untrue?
2. You are refering to US police which being a federal state has regional variations to police regulations, we are refering to UK police as this is where we reside which is a centralised state and has blanket regulations for all police activity.
3. Handcuffing within special police transit vechicles is legal and justified as it prevents a gang of rapists escaping arrest by smashing their way out of the transit vechicle.
4. The Simpsons is a cartoon, a reference from The Simpsons is not neccesarily based on real life.
Anyway, the police don't actually prosecute anyone, the CPS do. The Police just look for criminals and keep protests under control to stop protesters killing each other and those around them and occasionally assist people in unnusual circumstances such as when we found an extremely senile man walking in the middle of a duel carriageway.
Haha, the Simpsons quote just came to mind. This is getting off track from the real subject at hand, but I'd just like to add a few words.
Basically, it is true that it is against the ACPO guidelines to handcuff women in Great Britain, this makes it a fairly unique case. In Belgium handcuffs are never used (except in the courtroom for some reason). That doesn't really mean anything for the rest of the world, where handcuffs are the norm and one's gender doesn't matter (as it shouldn't, I would contend).
What if you're a 120 pound little guy and you are dealing with a violent female bodybuilder twice your size? You'd be violating her rights if you put cuffs on her? I don't buy it, this sounds more like guidelines for discretionary procedure than policy, that is to say they are asked not to handcuff women unless necessary.
In fact, I'd contend that to have different procedures for arrest based on gender would not hold up to laws about discrimination, unless there were many other factors in the legislation. That is to say, more specific guidelines for the use of restraints and in what cases that is permitted. In the U.S.A. police have every right to slam a person on a concrete surface and handcuff them behind their back if they have even a vague suspicion they may be dangerous (i.e. black).
In studying criminology I have found that a vast majority of police departments in the world use restraints routinely, absolutely regardless of gender. And even if women can't be handcuffed under any circumstances in the UK, that simply has very little baring on the general worldwide situation with police brutality.
That being said, neither of us is really making any productive points that could help this particular debate, a new thread on restraints might be interesting though :)
--- G.
Red Star fails to see that some bad incidents with the police are the exception and not the rule! He also may think that trains always crash but they don't a loads of journeys are completed each day. It all down to media manipulation.
I also planned what I would say to you Redstar and what I would like to do to you when you responded to this thread. If I was in the police and you were at a protest and you were shouting police scum at me and my coleues and causing violence then I would do this to you...
1. Get a team of 3 cops including me to go and get you on the ground. From the back or the front make no diffrence. If I was to get you from the back then I would push you on the ground. From the front I would get both arms turn them 180 degree and then bend you hand to the right for the rgiht arm and the left for the left arm and then press on your nuckles. At this point you would fail to the ground in pain from it and we would then get 2 cops to sit on your solders so you can't get up whilst we han cuff you. This is pian compliance Redstar. Having cuffed you on your hands we would then leave you there for 5 minutes whilst you work out that you can't get up becuase you need your arms to do so unless you hvae great uppeer body strength. You could also hope but that would not get you very far. We would know lift you up and put you in a cell and watch you.
Please note: I would only do this if you were cauisng a problem.
Of course Redstar you will know say that I am the perfect candiate for the police acording to you "virtues".
This would be the exception rather than the rule redstar2000
(Edited by RAM at 7:35 am on June 17, 2003)
Another thing the police genrally do not have your virtues as the rule. Some people will always get through the system and I would like to think that they would get taken out from the police.
Invader Zim
17th June 2003, 07:40
RS2000 Moskitto is not a leftists???
Yet he has been made a moderator?
That would kind of suggest that, you are the only person who would think so? Certainly Malte and all the other Admin's disagree with you or he would not have his mod powers, and there would be many threads in the CC demanding his striping of mod powers and locking in OI. So in short your an idiot to say such pathetic rubbish just to publically slander Moskitto's reputation just because he happens to disagree with you.
Had he looked closer, he would have noticed, quite plainly, that redstar makes special reference to Marx observing the evolution of feudalism into capitalism.
If you actually read it you will quite clearly see that he infact talks of a capitalist revolution to overthrow feudalism in his next post to counter mine, which suggests that I was right: -
feudalism was overthrown by capitalism through the mechanism of revolution,
As any half decent historian will tell you, the majority of feudalistic regimes were not overthrown by the capitalist classes at all but reformed into capitalism, an excelent example if 19th Centuary Britain.
Of course the French Revolution could be arguedas the oppersit of what I stated above however after the fall of Napoleon the Monarchy was re-instated.
BUt no matter what I say, AK will continue to believe he has "won", not only because he views the exchange of thought as a competition but because he has invented a delusion in which he never loses, existing only in his mind. That's your reality bud, and I'd hate to be in your shoes.
Ohh I know when Ive lost, however RS2000 has actualy not disproved anything I stated, just enevatably resorted to flaming. But hey, you believe what you like you are entitled to your own stupid opinions.
ÑóẊîöʼn
17th June 2003, 09:55
The police will be the first line of defence of the capitalist class during the revolution,and they will do what they are ordered, be it breaking up picket lines or shooting protestors.
And for those of you who believe socialism can be achieved through reform, think again. You are outnumbered in all democratic systems, be it the Senate or Parliament.
When the people 'wake up' and realise they're getting screwed, in all probability they will be very angry and unlikely to want to vote in a new boss which will almost certainly be the same as the old boss, IE make a few superficial reforms which will be quietly reversed later on. they will want to smash the cruel system which duped them for so long.
Reformists will never have a nightstick broken over their heads because they are in bed with the police.
Blackberry
17th June 2003, 10:38
One wonders why this thread was even started at all. RAM could've simply emailed RedStar2000 about this certain topic (as is the normal procedure). There is an 'emails' section, where RedStar2000 publicly replies to some of his emails. There is no point posting here about it - you're just giving him free publicity!
What could be your motivation to post here, instead of emailing him, RAM? I think RedStar2000 has it right - you're 'losing', and so you want to flame the 'winner'.
I myself find it funny that a (purposefully) simple website has caused such a racket. RaiseTheFist.Com doesn't even receive this much attention.
:cool:
(Edited by Neutral Nation at 10:39 am on June 17, 2003)
Moskitto
17th June 2003, 11:54
And Moskitto, the neo-puritan cop-wannabe.
LOL, helping to prosecute drink drivers may actually save your life. I'll remember that so I don't go into police toxicology.
Although, considering you'll be dead without any teeth before your 60, I don't see why I should care about what happens to you since by the time i'll be able to prosecute the drink driver who would kill you, you'll be dead.
And AK47 is right, Redstar2000 made himself look like an idiot by claiming that Robert Owen was a lord.
redstar2000
17th June 2003, 12:04
Quote: from RAM on 1:33 am on June 17, 2003
I also planned what I would say to you Redstar and what I would like to do to you when you responded to this thread. If I was in the police and you were at a protest and you were shouting police scum at me and my coleues and causing violence then I would do this to you...
1. Get a team of 3 cops including me to go and get you on the ground. From the back or the front make no diffrence. If I was to get you from the back then I would push you on the ground. From the front I would get both arms turn them 180 degree and then bend you hand to the right for the rgiht arm and the left for the left arm and then press on your nuckles. At this point you would fail to the ground in pain from it and we would then get 2 cops to sit on your solders so you can't get up whilst we han cuff you. This is pian compliance Redstar. Having cuffed you on your hands we would then leave you there for 5 minutes whilst you work out that you can't get up becuase you need your arms to do so unless you hvae great uppeer body strength. You could also hope but that would not get you very far. We would know lift you up and put you in a cell and watch you.
Please note: I would only do this if you were cauisng a problem.
Of course Redstar you will know say that I am the perfect candiate for the police acording to you "virtues".
This would be the exception rather than the rule redstar2000
(Edited by RAM at 7:35 am on June 17, 2003)
(emphasis added)
Aren't you the little charmer? Really into that pain thing, aren't you?
Yes, if you can pass the written test (I won't bet on that one either way), you are a perfect candidate for the modern police force under capitalism. You have exactly the right attitude for "special operations"...the kind that don't come out in the media until 10 or 15 years after the atrocities are committed, if they come out at all.
This is the guy, need I remind everyone, that AK47 called an "ethics expert".
Perhaps the three of you could scrounge up some venture capital and open the "Heinrich Himmler Institute of Advanced Police Studies"...there's a big market out there and no reason why you guys should not take advantage of it.
No reason at all.
:cool:
Moskitto
17th June 2003, 12:37
Yes, if you can pass the written test (I won't bet on that one either way), you are a perfect candidate for the modern police force under capitalism. You have exactly the right attitude for "special operations"...the kind that don't come out in the media until 10 or 15 years after the atrocities are committed, if they come out at all.
no he wouldn't, he couldn't pass the physical test, you have to be my level of fitness to do that, and I am getting benefit training at a theoretically physiologically unhealthy frequency.
Invader Zim
17th June 2003, 13:01
The argument against the police is a foolish one, in my opinion, yes they would be against any revolution. But you RS2000 can wait for your mythical revolution until you die, there is no way the right attitude of the general public in any western country to even expect a revolution to occur, at least not in your life time, I am right in assuming that you are in your late 40's -50's? So unless a revolution seems far more likley to occur then to talk of banning or smashing the police is extreamly premature.
Also do you not acknoladge that the police do have a role in socioty. For example in the utopian Marxist world in your imagination, how do you account for petty theft from the state, or from individuals within the state? Also how do you stop more sever crimes such as Rape and murder etc?
The police are necessary in any socioty, sure they are by no means perfect, the British police is riddled with problems such as racism, bias and corruption. But would you like murderers such as Harold Shipman on the loose? Or Ian Brady? Mara Hindly etc. If the police are removed how do you stop people such as this? The police is in vast need of reform but to remove its entire existatnce is pure folly.
redstar2000
17th June 2003, 13:40
...there is no way the right attitude of the general public in any western country to even expect a revolution to occur, at least not in your life time...
I don't expect a communist revolution in my lifetime. What does that have to do with...anything?
The police is in vast need of reform but to remove its entire existatnce is pure folly.
Note the phrase that AK47 attributes to me: "remove its entire existence".
Now, here is what I actually said:
This strongly suggests that we communists should advocate and implement the de-professionalization of all state functions involving violence or potential violence against the citizenry. Yes, you can, if you wish, do this kind of work for a few years...but you are not allowed to make a career out of it; you are not allowed to develop any kind of "professional detachment" from the social consequences of your work.
Is any additional response required?
...he [RAM] couldn't pass the physical test [to be a cop]...
Perhaps not; you know him better than I do...or want to. But you must admit, he's definitely got "the right stuff" for that kind of "work".
:cool:
Invader Zim
17th June 2003, 13:56
Quote: from redstar2000 on 1:40 pm on June 17, 2003
...there is no way the right attitude of the general public in any western country to even expect a revolution to occur, at least not in your life time...
I don't expect a communist revolution in my lifetime. What does that have to do with...anything?
The police is in vast need of reform but to remove its entire existatnce is pure folly.
Note the phrase that AK47 attributes to me: "remove its entire existence".
Now, here is what I actually said:
This strongly suggests that we communists should advocate and implement the de-professionalization of all state functions involving violence or potential violence against the citizenry. Yes, you can, if you wish, do this kind of work for a few years...but you are not allowed to make a career out of it; you are not allowed to develop any kind of "professional detachment" from the social consequences of your work.
Is any additional response required?
...he [RAM] couldn't pass the physical test [to be a cop]...
Perhaps not; you know him better than I do...or want to. But you must admit, he's definitely got "the right stuff" for that kind of "work".
:cool:
The point was not necessarily just to you, but all those who want to remove the police completely. You just happened to be a nemed person the post was directed at.
redstar2000
17th June 2003, 15:20
The point was not necessarily just to you, but all those who want to remove the police completely. You just happened to be a named person the post was directed at.
"A named person" who "just happened" not to say what you claimed he said.
:cool:
Quote: from redstar2000 on 1:40 pm on June 17, 2003
...there is no way the right attitude of the general public in any western country to even expect a revolution to occur, at least not in your life time...
I don't expect a communist revolution in my lifetime. What does that have to do with...anything?
The police is in vast need of reform but to remove its entire existatnce is pure folly.
Note the phrase that AK47 attributes to me: "remove its entire existence".
Now, here is what I actually said:
This strongly suggests that we communists should advocate and implement the de-professionalization of all state functions involving violence or potential violence against the citizenry. Yes, you can, if you wish, do this kind of work for a few years...but you are not allowed to make a career out of it; you are not allowed to develop any kind of "professional detachment" from the social consequences of your work.
Is any additional response required?
...he [RAM] couldn't pass the physical test [to be a cop]...
Perhaps not; you know him better than I do...or want to. But you must admit, he's definitely got "the right stuff" for that kind of "work".
:cool:
I might like and want to join the police later in life!
Redstar2000 you also failed to respond to my post where I talked about how I would arrest you with 2 other people and then leave you on the grounds in handcuff unless we helped you to get up! You failed to respond to that just like a good politican or never answer the question that you were asked!
You are also implying your attitude of outdated attitude of homophibia when you metion about AK47 and I knowing each other. Would it matter if AK47 and I were in a homosexual ralationship. If it did then you are a very sad outdated person. No you are probbaly jelous of Homosexulas as they must get more sexual activity then you ever will apart from Masterbation.
If I was your Mum I would have ABORTED YOU!
Rememebr Redstar it is about Women's Free Choice!
I hope and pray and know that you will die long beofre I do or any other memeber on this board!
I would also want to know more personal details about you as well say are you single, do you have any friends etc...???
You have wasted money on smoking and wonder why you can only use the low graphics version of the BBC News website!
YOU REDSTAR200 ARE THE WORST BEING THAT I HAVE EVER MEET IN REAL LIFE OR ON THE INTERNET!!
(Edited by RAM at 4:38 pm on June 17, 2003)
Sabocat
17th June 2003, 15:25
Quote: from RAM on 8:20 pm on June 17, 2003
Quote: from redstar2000 on 1:40 pm on June 17, 2003
...there is no way the right attitude of the general public in any western country to even expect a revolution to occur, at least not in your life time...
I don't expect a communist revolution in my lifetime. What does that have to do with...anything?
The police is in vast need of reform but to remove its entire existatnce is pure folly.
Note the phrase that AK47 attributes to me: "remove its entire existence".
Now, here is what I actually said:
This strongly suggests that we communists should advocate and implement the de-professionalization of all state functions involving violence or potential violence against the citizenry. Yes, you can, if you wish, do this kind of work for a few years...but you are not allowed to make a career out of it; you are not allowed to develop any kind of "professional detachment" from the social consequences of your work.
Is any additional response required?
...he [RAM] couldn't pass the physical test [to be a cop]...
Perhaps not; you know him better than I do...or want to. But you must admit, he's definitely got "the right stuff" for that kind of "work".
:cool:
I might like and want to join the police later in life!
Redstar2000 you also failed to respond to my post where I talked about how I would arrest you with 2 other people and then leave you on the grounds in handcuff unless we helped you to get up! You failed to respond to that just like a good politican or never answer the question that you were asked!
You are also implying your attitude of outdated attitude of homophibia when you metion about AK47 and I knowing each other. Would it matter if AK47 and I were in a homosexual ralationship. If it did then you are a very sad outdated person. No you are probbaly jelous of Homosexulas as they must get more sexual activity then you ever will apart from Masterbation.
If I was your Mum I would have ABORTED YOU!
Rememebr Redstar it is about Women's Free Choice!
I hope and pray and know that you will die long beofre I do or any other memeber on this board!
I would also want to know more personal details about you as well say are you single, do you have any friends etc...???
You have wasted money on smoking and wonder why you can only use the low graphics version of the BBC News website!
YOU REDSTAR200 ARE THE WORST BEING THAT I HAVE EVER MEET IN REAL LIFE OR ON THE INTERNET!!
PS. Moskitto said that he would back me up on my post about that fact that you should have been aborted!
(Edited by RAM at 3:22 pm on June 17, 2003)
There, there.....time for your medication now....
redstar2000
17th June 2003, 15:33
Quote: from RAM on 9:20 am on June 17, 2003
I might like and want to join the police later in life!
Redstar2000 you also failed to respond to my post where I talked about how I would arrest you with 2 other people and then leave you on the grounds in handcuff unless we helped you to get up! You failed to respond to that just like a good politican or never answer the question that you were asked!
You are also implying your attitude of outdated attitude of homophibia when you metion about AK47 and I knowing each other. Would it matter if AK47 and I were in a homosexual ralationship. If it did then you are a very sad outdated person. No you are probbaly jelous of Homosexulas as they must get more sexual activity then you ever will apart from Masterbation.
If I was your Mum I would have ABORTED YOU!
Rememebr Redstar it is about Women's Free Choice!
I hope and pray and know that you will die long beofre I do or any other memeber on this board!
I would also want to know more personal details about you as well say are you single, do you have any friends etc...???
You have wasted money on smoking and wonder why you can only use the low graphics version of the BBC News website!
YOU REDSTAR200 ARE THE WORST BEING THAT I HAVE EVER MEET IN REAL LIFE OR ON THE INTERNET!!
PS. Moskitto said that he would back me up on my post about that fact that you should have been aborted!
(Edited by RAM at 3:22 pm on June 17, 2003)
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
:cool:
(Edited by redstar2000 at 9:38 am on June 17, 2003)
Quote: from redstar2000 on 3:33 pm on June 17, 2003
Quote: from RAM on 9:20 am on June 17, 2003
[quote]
I might like and want to join the police later in life!
Redstar2000 you also failed to respond to my post where I talked about how I would arrest you with 2 other people and then leave you on the grounds in handcuff unless we helped you to get up! You failed to respond to that just like a good politican or never answer the question that you were asked!
You are also implying your attitude of outdated attitude of homophibia when you metion about AK47 and I knowing each other. Would it matter if AK47 and I were in a homosexual ralationship. If it did then you are a very sad outdated person. No you are probbaly jelous of Homosexulas as they must get more sexual activity then you ever will apart from Masterbation.
If I was your Mum I would have ABORTED YOU!
Rememebr Redstar it is about Women's Free Choice!
I hope and pray and know that you will die long beofre I do or any other memeber on this board!
I would also want to know more personal details about you as well say are you single, do you have any friends etc...???
You have wasted money on smoking and wonder why you can only use the low graphics version of the BBC News website!
YOU REDSTAR200 ARE THE WORST BEING THAT I HAVE EVER MEET IN REAL LIFE OR ON THE INTERNET!!
PS. Moskitto said that he would back me up on my post about that fact that you should have been aborted!
(Edited by RAM at 3:22 pm on June 17, 2003)
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
:cool:
DON'T GIVE ME YOUR FUCKING SMILIES SHIT AT ME REDSTAR2000!!!
RESPOND TO MY POST OR CAN'T YOU IN WHICH CASE WE AND MY FELLOW MEMBERS WIN THE ARGUMENT?
DO YOU HAVE ANY FRIENDS AT ALL THAT ARE NOT ON THE INTERNET?
ARE YOU STILL SINGLE?
ARE YOU STILL A VIRGIN?
(Edited by RAM at 3:38 pm on June 17, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 3:40 pm on June 17, 2003)
Oh look what a surprise he has avoided my topic and is now looking at other topics becuase he has lost the argument!
I could easily train 2 other people to help handcuff you and simply buy some handcufss and I would gladly do that do you and leave you on the ground so you can't get up!
You also have a shitty computer becuase you can only access the low graphics version of the BBC NEWS Website. You have probally watsed all your money on smoking!
DO YOU EVEN HAVE A JOB OR DO YOU JUST SIT AROUND ON YOUR ARSE ALL DAY POSTING ON HERE AND GETTTING BENIFTS FROM HARD WOKRING OTHER PEOPLE?
YOU COST OTHER PEOPLE MONEY!
IF YOU WERE ON A LIFE SUPPRT MACHINE DYING I WOULD TURN IT OFF WITHOUT A CARE!
YOU WATSE OXYGEN!
COME ON REDSTAR2000 ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!!
NOW!!!!!
IF IF KNEW THAT YOU WOULD BE LIKE THIS AND I WAS YOUR MUM I WOULD ABORT YOU!
(Edited by RAM at 4:36 pm on June 17, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
17th June 2003, 16:33
ROFLMFAOLAMF
Your maturity and intelligence is overwhelming him, RAM, you can't expect anyone to have an answer to such incredible insights as
"IF YOU WERE ON A LIFE SUPPRT MACHIEN DYING I WOULD TURN IT OFF WITHOUT A CARE!
YOU WATSE OXYGEN!"
LOL, seriously, this is a classic. It goes in the Andrey and Akbar collection! :)
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 4:33 pm on June 17, 2003
ROFLMFAOLAMF
Your maturity and intelligence is overwhelming him, RAM, you can't expect anyone to have an answer to such incredible insights as
"IF YOU WERE ON A LIFE SUPPRT MACHIEN DYING I WOULD TURN IT OFF WITHOUT A CARE!
YOU WATSE OXYGEN!"
LOL, seriously, this is a classic. It goes in the Andrey and Akbar collection! :)
--- G.
Thank you!
Lets see what RS2000 says IF he does respond at all!
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 4:33 pm on June 17, 2003
ROFLMFAOLAMF
Your maturity and intelligence is overwhelming him, RAM, you can't expect anyone to have an answer to such incredible insights as
"IF YOU WERE ON A LIFE SUPPRT MACHIEN DYING I WOULD TURN IT OFF WITHOUT A CARE!
YOU WATSE OXYGEN!"
LOL, seriously, this is a classic. It goes in the Andrey and Akbar collection! :)
--- G.
What is the Andrey and Akbar collection?
Sabocat
17th June 2003, 16:43
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if redstar never posts here again. I'm sure he's given up.
Quite a victory.
Quote: from Disgustapated on 4:43 pm on June 17, 2003
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if redstar never posts here again. I'm sure he's given up.
Quite a victory.
Thank you!
I just hope that it comes true!
Dhul Fiqar
17th June 2003, 16:51
The Andrey and Akbar collection is a reference to people that habitually make fools of themselves by posting as inane an assault as is theoretically possible on a far more intelligent and experienced member.
Also known as "Smoking Frog Syndrome".
And you're right Disgustapated, I know if I was called a watse (sic) of oxygen by someone that can't even put together a refutation without nailing down his caps lock button and throwing out his dictionary, I would just go crawl into bed and cry. Forever.
Here's an idea RAM, why don't YOU leave and save yourself further ridicule? Because this thread will NEVER be forgotten, and if it is I will remind people, as much for comic relief as a testament to how to totally destroy one's own arguments and reputation in eight easy pages ;)
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 4:51 pm on June 17, 2003
The Andrey and Akbar collection is a reference to people that habitually make fools of themselves by posting as inane an assault as is theoretically possible on a far more intelligent and experienced member.
Also known as "Smoking Frog Syndrome".
And you're right Disgustapated, I know if I was called a watse (sic) of oxygen by someone that can't even put together a refutation without nailing down his caps lock button and throwing out his dictionary, I would just go crawl into bed and cry. Forever.
Here's an idea RAM, why don't YOU leave and save yourself further ridicule? Because this thread will NEVER be forgotten, and if it is I will remind people, as much for comic relief as a testament to how to totally destroy one's own arguments and reputation in eight easy pages ;)
--- G.
I am happy at what I have done even if it comes across that I can't smell (that was on purpose! I know it is spell!) then that is my own fault. I hardly have any reputation left so what is there to lose by flaming a senior memeber who I think is an idiot!
So I have done what can happen at school when the weekest kid insults the biggest person and wins and then the big person is destroyed and everyone still thinks that the small person is an idiot!
Cool!
(Edited by RAM at 5:00 pm on June 17, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 5:15 pm on June 17, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
17th June 2003, 17:09
Eh, no. You did that thing where an idiot logs into a messageboard, makes a fool of himself in front of everyone and amuses senior members of the board who know better.
The only one destroyed here is you. Seriously, even if I spent the day editing every post in this thread I could not make this look worse for you, lol.
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 5:09 pm on June 17, 2003
Eh, no. You did that thing where an idiot logs into a messageboard, makes a fool of himself in front of everyone and amuses senior members of the board who know better.
The only one destroyed here is you. Seriously, even if I spent the day editing every post in this thread I could not make this look worse for you, lol.
--- G.
Ok, Ok then!
Invader Zim
17th June 2003, 18:01
Quote: from redstar2000 on 3:20 pm on June 17, 2003
The point was not necessarily just to you, but all those who want to remove the police completely. You just happened to be a named person the post was directed at.
"A named person" who "just happened" not to say what you claimed he said.
:cool:
I never said you did say it, what i said was: -
The police are necessary in any socioty, sure they are by no means perfect, the British police is riddled with problems such as racism, bias and corruption. But would you like murderers such as Harold Shipman on the loose? Or Ian Brady? Mara Hindly etc. If the police are removed how do you stop people such as this? The police is in vast need of reform but to remove its entire existatnce is pure folly.
In that paragraph of my posts do you see even one mention of your screen name? That paragraph was a general statment statring that police reform is needed, not abolishment. I never said that you stated anything so where you got this idea: -
"A named person" who "just happened" not to say what you claimed he said.
Is very interesting, as I never said you did.
canikickit
17th June 2003, 19:28
That was fucking hilarious.
redstar2000
17th June 2003, 21:59
You know that thing about being only able to use the "low-graphics" version of the BBC News really hurt! :cheesy:
You remember that old "gedanken-experiment" where if you set a large number of monkeys at keyboards typing away, that eventually one of them by sheer chance would type out the full text of a Shakespearian play?
We have the first three monkeys...at Che-Lives.
:cool:
Moskitto
17th June 2003, 22:21
You remember that old "gedanken-experiment" where if you set a large number of monkeys at keyboards typing away, that eventually one of them by sheer chance would type out the full text of a Shakespearian play?
We have the first three monkeys...at Che-Lives.
actually, the first 2 died, but we've still got the third, their names were Fantomas, Augusto Sandino and Redstar2000.
Invader Zim
17th June 2003, 22:27
Quote: from redstar2000 on 9:59 pm on June 17, 2003
You know that thing about being only able to use the "low-graphics" version of the BBC News really hurt! :cheesy:
You remember that old "gedanken-experiment" where if you set a large number of monkeys at keyboards typing away, that eventually one of them by sheer chance would type out the full text of a Shakespearian play?
We have the first three monkeys...at Che-Lives.
:cool:
... Am I supposed to be offended??? Or just laughing at the absolute uselessness of that purile flame? Come on its not even that witty, surley you can do better than that. But if all you have to post is flame Im not going to stop you, I will just look on with sadness at the level too which you have stooped.
Eastside Revolt
17th June 2003, 23:00
Quote: from AK47 on 10:27 pm on June 17, 2003
Quote: from redstar2000 on 9:59 pm on June 17, 2003
You know that thing about being only able to use the "low-graphics" version of the BBC News really hurt! :cheesy:
You remember that old "gedanken-experiment" where if you set a large number of monkeys at keyboards typing away, that eventually one of them by sheer chance would type out the full text of a Shakespearian play?
We have the first three monkeys...at Che-Lives.
:cool:
... Am I supposed to be offended??? Or just laughing at the absolute uselessness of that purile flame? Come on its not even that witty, surley you can do better than that. But if all you have to post is flame Im not going to stop you, I will just look on with sadness at the level too which you have stooped.
Shut the fuck up boy, and get raped by a police officer.
Invader Zim
17th June 2003, 23:15
Quote: from redcanada on 11:00 pm on June 17, 2003
Quote: from AK47 on 10:27 pm on June 17, 2003
Quote: from redstar2000 on 9:59 pm on June 17, 2003
You know that thing about being only able to use the "low-graphics" version of the BBC News really hurt! :cheesy:
You remember that old "gedanken-experiment" where if you set a large number of monkeys at keyboards typing away, that eventually one of them by sheer chance would type out the full text of a Shakespearian play?
We have the first three monkeys...at Che-Lives.
:cool:
... Am I supposed to be offended??? Or just laughing at the absolute uselessness of that purile flame? Come on its not even that witty, surley you can do better than that. But if all you have to post is flame Im not going to stop you, I will just look on with sadness at the level too which you have stooped.
Shut the fuck up boy, and get raped by a police officer.
... Im not even going to grace that with a responce.
But what gives you the idea that I think the police are great? Surley my posts saying that the police needs desperate reform would indicate the oppersit?
anti machine
18th June 2003, 00:44
"purile flame"...penile? penile flame?
Dan Majerle
18th June 2003, 01:58
A quick shoutout to Moskitto...
YOU RULE CHAMP
Red moskitto has being here for ages and he is a great contributor. I don't know much about AK and RAM but lay off him. I"m not sure about this whole police argument and whether or not it's wrong to join the force because you would be fighting for the system you loathe, but that means that to totally not work in favour of capitalism you would have to alienate yourself from society altogether. Getting a job would be you aiding and prospering from a free market society, becoming a teacher means you teach capitalist values and capitalist subjects to children, becoming a doctor means that you alienate people by providing services to those who can afford them and making less well off people miss out and sort less professional assistance if any at all. See, capitalism permeates all our lives whatever avenues we take. Would joining the police force be that much different?
synthesis
18th June 2003, 02:52
This thread... rocks.
Keep it up, gentlemen. :biggrin:
redstar2000
18th June 2003, 03:24
A quick shoutout to Moskitto...
YOU RULE CHAMP
Red moskitto has being here for ages and he is a great contributor. I don't know much about AK and RAM but lay off him.
A matter of opinion, I suppose. In my view, he's a superstitious neo-puritanical twit with a smattering of scientific jargon with which he attempts to intimidate people...and is not any kind of leftist at all; his ambition in life is to test people for "illegal drugs" for some drug enforcement gestapo.
See, capitalism permeates all our lives whatever avenues we take. Would joining the police force be that much different?
Actually, I addressed this question at considerable length in the posts collected on my site. But to recapitulate briefly...
Yes, merely by living in capitalist society, we inadvertantly support, in one fashion or another, the continuation of that society. No one is "pure and beyond reproach".
"Purity" is, however, not the point. When you join the police or the military, you have become an active combatant for a loathsome social order. It is, from an ethical standpoint, exactly as if a slave should volunteer to hunt down other, runaway slaves.
We are all wage-slaves--we can't help that--but we are not required to actively strengthen slavery as an institution.
Indeed, the opposite is true: we have an ethical duty to do all in our power to undermine and weaken the system of wage-slavery in any way we can.
There are lots of different ways to do that; it is a matter for other threads.
But it should be blatantly obvious that you don't do that by joining the institutions specifically designed for the purpose of inflicting injury/death on those whom the ruling class perceives as their enemies...namely us.
There are a wide variety of pissant excuses for this brazen treachery: it's just a job like any other; I won't be doing the violent stuff myself, somebody else will; I'll be in the part that "helps" people; I'll starve if I don't do this; blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Some people are sincere when they say things like this, and when you explain to them what's really involved, they change their minds.
Others...well, you know.
Perhaps most difficult to discourage are those who think they are being "clever"--I will "infiltrate" the police/military and "use" my influence to "subvert" them. As if people who have chosen this kind of "work" are anything but proto-fascists at best. Realistically, you might just as well launch a socialist recruiting drive...on Wall Street!
Thus the outline of the basic argument; genuine lefties do not "join" the capitalist police/military establishment or cooperate with them in any way. "Leftist" poseurs, of course, can do anything they like...at least until someone like me calls them on their bullshit. Then they can start flame-threads--which, admittedly, are fairly amusing at times.
And perhaps instructive as well. Our three stooges have revealed far more about themselves and their views than I could have done in a week's worth of tedious research. Any objective leftist can now see them in all their "glory" for what they really are.
When you think about it, what more could I ask?
:cool:
PS: AK47 and Moskitto have made such a fuss over my "error" in calling Robert Owen a "lord" that perhaps people should see what I actually said: I can understand, even if I have considerable distaste for, your admiration of Robert Owen. The benevolent "lord" giving generously to his cap-in-hand servants is one of your old English traditions...and perhaps you see yourself in such a role. Now what would you like to bet that all three of these fuckwits wouldn't accept a knighthood at the drop of a scepter? Or is it sceptre?
Dan Majerle
18th June 2003, 04:57
Nice.
I might actually read your papers. But speaking of law, i have a criminal law exam tomorrow and i haven't started studying! lol. Lucky it is open book. Ah, i love university lol ;)
Moskitto
18th June 2003, 08:00
A matter of opinion, I suppose. In my view, he's a superstitious neo-puritanical twit with a smattering of scientific jargon with which he attempts to intimidate people...and is not any kind of leftist at all; his ambition in life is to test people for "illegal drugs" for some drug enforcement gestapo.
Actually, one of the career avenues i have explored is testing people who have been driving for drugs which if they had been taking they shouldn't have been driving, and I see no problem with this, I take no medication, so I don't see why people need to take LSD before driving.
Now what would you like to bet that all three of these fuckwits wouldn't accept a knighthood at the drop of a scepter? Or is it sceptre?
just like I have chosen never to go to the olympics, I have chosen never to accept a knighthood.
Also there would be something distinctly wrong with a world where people are legally required to call me "sir."
(Edited by Moskitto at 8:26 am on June 18, 2003)
Corvus Corax
18th June 2003, 08:24
I think we should rename this thread: The Battle of the Ego's, because thats all it's turned into.
by red canada
Shut the fuck up boy, and get raped by a police officer.
The point in that?
Or were you just trying to brown nose redstar2000?
Quote from: - Corvus Corax
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by red canada
Shut the fuck up boy, and get raped by a police officer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The point in that?
Or were you just trying to brown nose redstar2000?
I think that that is a far reached hypothesis, however that does not mean that it is not fundermentaly correct!
ÑóẊîöʼn
18th June 2003, 13:38
I see, the instant someone praises Redstar2000 or agrees with him, these hypocrites yell out "Arse-Kisser!" and "Redstar's *****!" or something along the lines.
Things like that will only make this stupid flame war go on.
pack it in guys, ALL of you.
Quote: from redstar2000 on 9:59 pm on June 17, 2003
You know that thing about being only able to use the "low-graphics" version of the BBC News really hurt! :cheesy:
You remember that old "gedanken-experiment" where if you set a large number of monkeys at keyboards typing away, that eventually one of them by sheer chance would type out the full text of a Shakespearian play?
We have the first three monkeys...at Che-Lives.
:cool:
Obviously the BBC Graphic insult did hurt as you posted it and did not post any other of my insults!
Quote: from redstar2000 on 3:24 am on June 18, 2003
A quick shoutout to Moskitto...
YOU RULE CHAMP
Red moskitto has being here for ages and he is a great contributor. I don't know much about AK and RAM but lay off him.
A matter of opinion, I suppose. In my view, he's a superstitious neo-puritanical twit with a smattering of scientific jargon with which he attempts to intimidate people...and is not any kind of leftist at all; his ambition in life is to test people for "illegal drugs" for some drug enforcement gestapo.
See, capitalism permeates all our lives whatever avenues we take. Would joining the police force be that much different?
Actually, I addressed this question at considerable length in the posts collected on my site. But to recapitulate briefly...
Yes, merely by living in capitalist society, we inadvertantly support, in one fashion or another, the continuation of that society. No one is "pure and beyond reproach".
"Purity" is, however, not the point. When you join the police or the military, you have become an active combatant for a loathsome social order. It is, from an ethical standpoint, exactly as if a slave should volunteer to hunt down other, runaway slaves.
We are all wage-slaves--we can't help that--but we are not required to actively strengthen slavery as an institution.
Indeed, the opposite is true: we have an ethical duty to do all in our power to undermine and weaken the system of wage-slavery in any way we can.
There are lots of different ways to do that; it is a matter for other threads.
But it should be blatantly obvious that you don't do that by joining the institutions specifically designed for the purpose of inflicting injury/death on those whom the ruling class perceives as their enemies...namely us.
There are a wide variety of pissant excuses for this brazen treachery: it's just a job like any other; I won't be doing the violent stuff myself, somebody else will; I'll be in the part that "helps" people; I'll starve if I don't do this; blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Some people are sincere when they say things like this, and when you explain to them what's really involved, they change their minds.
Others...well, you know.
Perhaps most difficult to discourage are those who think they are being "clever"--I will "infiltrate" the police/military and "use" my influence to "subvert" them. As if people who have chosen this kind of "work" are anything but proto-fascists at best. Realistically, you might just as well launch a socialist recruiting drive...on Wall Street!
Thus the outline of the basic argument; genuine lefties do not "join" the capitalist police/military establishment or cooperate with them in any way. "Leftist" poseurs, of course, can do anything they like...at least until someone like me calls them on their bullshit. Then they can start flame-threads--which, admittedly, are fairly amusing at times.
And perhaps instructive as well. Our three stooges have revealed far more about themselves and their views than I could have done in a week's worth of tedious research. Any objective leftist can now see them in all their "glory" for what they really are.
When you think about it, what more could I ask?
:cool:
PS: AK47 and Moskitto have made such a fuss over my "error" in calling Robert Owen a "lord" that perhaps people should see what I actually said: I can understand, even if I have considerable distaste for, your admiration of Robert Owen. The benevolent "lord" giving generously to his cap-in-hand servants is one of your old English traditions...and perhaps you see yourself in such a role. Now what would you like to bet that all three of these fuckwits wouldn't accept a knighthood at the drop of a scepter? Or is it sceptre?
His scientific jargon did hurt you as you are making an issue of it!
Quote: from Corvus Corax on 8:24 am on June 18, 2003
I think we should rename this thread: The Battle of the Ego's, because thats all it's turned into.
by red canada
Shut the fuck up boy, and get raped by a police officer.
The point in that?
Or were you just trying to brown nose redstar2000?
I would like to do that although all that I would be doing is taking the shit from his mouth and making him breath it in!
RS2000 should be put on the street along with his views!
(Edited by RAM at 4:40 pm on June 18, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
18th June 2003, 16:55
Does being among the very few people here that have diametrically opposed views to the fairly reasonable stance taken by redstar and many others not give you the feeling that you don't belong here?
This isn't about redstar, obviously, because you have been restricted to OI and constantly flamed back and forth by a clear majority of our community for most things you post.
You obviously feel we are all more or less amoral, irresponsible idiots, and the feeling is more than mutual. What I'm trying to understand is why you subject yourself to this ridicule and almost ritual humiliation on a daily basis?
You have seized uppon redstar2000 because he can eloquently phrase oppinions that seem to be generally supported here. Yet you single him out as some kind of monster. I take exception to having views I share being characterized in the way you characterize them, and so do many of us.
Perhaps it's time we agreed to vehemently disagree and you said goodbye to your days of being ridiculed by people who you clearly despise?
--- G.
Moskitto
18th June 2003, 17:03
Quote: from RAM on 4:37 pm on June 18, 2003
His scientific jargon did hurt you as you are making an issue of it!
it's not my fault that people simply can't understand the simple concept of a ampathatic phospholipid bilayer containing amphoric polypeptides or glycoproteins and glycolipids which often act as antigens to adaptive immunity.
Quote: from redstar2000 on 3:24 am on June 18, 2003
A quick shoutout to Moskitto...
YOU RULE CHAMP
Red moskitto has being here for ages and he is a great contributor. I don't know much about AK and RAM but lay off him.
A matter of opinion, I suppose. In my view, he's a superstitious neo-puritanical twit with a smattering of scientific jargon with which he attempts to intimidate people...and is not any kind of leftist at all; his ambition in life is to test people for "illegal drugs" for some drug enforcement gestapo.
See, capitalism permeates all our lives whatever avenues we take. Would joining the police force be that much different?
Actually, I addressed this question at considerable length in the posts collected on my site. But to recapitulate briefly...
Yes, merely by living in capitalist society, we inadvertantly support, in one fashion or another, the continuation of that society. No one is "pure and beyond reproach".
"Purity" is, however, not the point. When you join the police or the military, you have become an active combatant for a loathsome social order. It is, from an ethical standpoint, exactly as if a slave should volunteer to hunt down other, runaway slaves.
We are all wage-slaves--we can't help that--but we are not required to actively strengthen slavery as an institution.
Indeed, the opposite is true: we have an ethical duty to do all in our power to undermine and weaken the system of wage-slavery in any way we can.
There are lots of different ways to do that; it is a matter for other threads.
But it should be blatantly obvious that you don't do that by joining the institutions specifically designed for the purpose of inflicting injury/death on those whom the ruling class perceives as their enemies...namely us.
There are a wide variety of pissant excuses for this brazen treachery: it's just a job like any other; I won't be doing the violent stuff myself, somebody else will; I'll be in the part that "helps" people; I'll starve if I don't do this; blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Some people are sincere when they say things like this, and when you explain to them what's really involved, they change their minds.
Others...well, you know.
Perhaps most difficult to discourage are those who think they are being "clever"--I will "infiltrate" the police/military and "use" my influence to "subvert" them. As if people who have chosen this kind of "work" are anything but proto-fascists at best. Realistically, you might just as well launch a socialist recruiting drive...on Wall Street!
Thus the outline of the basic argument; genuine lefties do not "join" the capitalist police/military establishment or cooperate with them in any way. "Leftist" poseurs, of course, can do anything they like...at least until someone like me calls them on their bullshit. Then they can start flame-threads--which, admittedly, are fairly amusing at times.
And perhaps instructive as well. Our three stooges have revealed far more about themselves and their views than I could have done in a week's worth of tedious research. Any objective leftist can now see them in all their "glory" for what they really are.
When you think about it, what more could I ask?
:cool:
PS: AK47 and Moskitto have made such a fuss over my "error" in calling Robert Owen a "lord" that perhaps people should see what I actually said: I can understand, even if I have considerable distaste for, your admiration of Robert Owen. The benevolent "lord" giving generously to his cap-in-hand servants is one of your old English traditions...and perhaps you see yourself in such a role. Now what would you like to bet that all three of these fuckwits wouldn't accept a knighthood at the drop of a scepter? Or is it sceptre?
I KNOW MAYBE RS2000 does not exits at all and that I am imaging him! That must be it!
RS2000? Can you proove that you exist?
(Edited by RAM at 5:28 pm on June 18, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
18th June 2003, 17:35
Jesus, you really are losing it, aren't you?
I found some anti police websites that were talking about victims of the police and the majority were about the american police! I think that says more about the US police then about the police in general!
(Edited by RAM at 6:38 pm on June 18, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 7:06 pm on June 18, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
18th June 2003, 18:45
Or maybe it was written by Americans, huh? ;)
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:45 pm on June 18, 2003
Or maybe it was written by Americans, huh? ;)
Of course they were!
PS have I sumed up Redstars feelings of cops in this?: -
http://www.mydailyfortune.com/images/police.gif
Another thing that I don't like is how some people tarness the police with the same brush and say that becuase a few police are bad that all police are bad when that is not the case also all the police are doing is following the laws which the goverment sets. The police can't express an opinion on law matters all they can do is to perform the law as the goverment tells them to!
(Edited by RAM at 8:24 pm on June 18, 2003)
Anonymous
18th June 2003, 20:46
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/riot20.jpg
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/riot.advance.jpg
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/riot_police.jpg
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/LondonCJBRiotPolice01
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/riot-police.jpg
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/wto06.jpg
(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 3:48 pm on June 18, 2003)
What is your point Dark Capitalist? and who is it aimed at me? RedStar?
If it is at me then what are you poiting out that police wear riot gear? They have to for there safty incase the crowd attacks them or to keep two groups of people apart.
Anonymous
18th June 2003, 21:04
Redstar. It's to show that even riot police are people too.
Dhul Fiqar
18th June 2003, 21:06
I want to ask you something RAM. In all seriousness.
A few of us got together and we have thought about this a great deal. We're not entirely sure how to ask you, since it's a bit embarrassing and all, but basically we decided it was time to pop the big question.
Will you, RAM, please... PLEASE...
GO FUCK YOUSELF!!! OK??
--- G.
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:04 pm on June 18, 2003
Redstar. It's to show that even riot police are people too.
Yes they are real people.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 9:06 pm on June 18, 2003
I want to ask you something RAM. In all seriousness.
A few of us got together and we have thought about this a great deal. We're not entirely sure how to ask you, since it's a bit embarrassing and all, but basically we decided it was time to pop the big question.
Will you, RAM, please... PLEASE...
GO FUCK YOUSELF!!! OK??
--- G.
No I will not
Moskitto
18th June 2003, 21:38
I think riot police should be deployed to a scene when riots occur not to prevent them. Riot police tend to cause intimidation which may result in riots, whereas lightly armed normal police just looking at preventing trouble are less intimidating and won't raise tensions as much to an unstable situation.
Quote: from Moskitto on 9:38 pm on June 18, 2003
I think riot police should be deployed to a scene when riots occur not to prevent them. Riot police tend to cause intimidation which may result in riots, whereas lightly armed normal police just looking at preventing trouble are less intimidating and won't raise tensions as much to an unstable situation.
Mmm true. The police have levels and assesments before they go to these events with inteligence. E.g. on May Day in London the Police were in normal kit with yellow jackets. They then went up in stages as the trouble got worse and in the end had to change into full riot gear by the end of the day.
Quote: from Moskitto on 9:38 pm on June 18, 2003
I think riot police should be deployed to a scene when riots occur not to prevent them. Riot police tend to cause intimidation which may result in riots, whereas lightly armed normal police just looking at preventing trouble are less intimidating and won't raise tensions as much to an unstable situation.
Err you actualy made an error Moskitto because there is no such thing as a riot in recent times in the UK. A riot is when the chief of police has to say that he has lost control and then hands control over to a London Beuro and that has not happened for ages!
They are not riots just large public disorder!
Eastside Revolt
18th June 2003, 21:58
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:04 pm on June 18, 2003
Redstar. It's to show that even riot police are people too.
When I see those pics, I think fascists, not people.
Quote: from redcanada on 9:58 pm on June 18, 2003
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:04 pm on June 18, 2003
Redstar. It's to show that even riot police are people too.
When I see those pics, I think fascists, not people.
You just brand all police with a facist tag and don't realise that they are real people and there only crime is to follow orders just like we all have to at times!!
(Edited by RAM at 10:49 pm on June 18, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 10:51 pm on June 18, 2003)
Zombie
20th June 2003, 13:21
i'm sure those soldiers responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqis, Palestinian or Salvadorian women and children are just following orders and that we should sympathize with them too eh?
heil military imperialism.
Sabocat
20th June 2003, 13:37
Quote: from RAM on 5:48 pm on June 18, 2003
Quote: from redcanada on 9:58 pm on June 18, 2003
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:04 pm on June 18, 2003
Redstar. It's to show that even riot police are people too.
When I see those pics, I think fascists, not people.
You just brand all police with a facist tag and don't realise that they are real people and there only crime is to follow orders just like we all have to at times!!
(Edited by RAM at 10:49 pm on June 18, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 10:51 pm on June 18, 2003)
Could you please remove your tongues from the asses of the police?
It's embarrassing. It's also nauseating to listen to you trying to rationalize their existence and actions.
Dhul Fiqar
20th June 2003, 13:50
You really are an idiot aren't you RAM? Does the phrase OLDHAM RACE RIOTS ring a bell??
Ever heard of a place called flippin' Belfast?? Ever actually opened a damned newspaper??
--- G.
Invader Zim
20th June 2003, 14:05
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 1:50 pm on June 20, 2003
You really are an idiot aren't you RAM? Does the phrase OLDHAM RACE RIOTS ring a bell??
Ever heard of a place called flippin' Belfast?? Ever actually opened a damned newspaper??
--- G.
I was talking to my Uncle who teaches A-Level law and he told me that, an official riot only occurs when the police lose all control. In these cercumstances Mashal law is declared by the government in those areas and the army are called in, and they have special powers... So I disagree with you Dhul we have not had a proper Riot for a very long time. But what it has todo with the morality of the police i am not quite sure.
Anyway anyone who wants the complete abolishment of the police is ignorant. We just let petty Crime occur and ruin the lives of loads of people? I think not.
As to those who believe that the police are Fascist I suggest you look up the word fascist in a dictionary and stop making stupid comments. Individual cops may be fascists but then again so may individual office workers. That does not mean that I generalise an entire employment sector.
When I see those pics, I think fascists, not people.
When I see your posts I see ignorance.
(Edited by AK47 at 2:07 pm on June 20, 2003)
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 1:50 pm on June 20, 2003
You really are an idiot aren't you RAM? Does the phrase OLDHAM RACE RIOTS ring a bell??
Ever heard of a place called flippin' Belfast?? Ever actually opened a damned newspaper??
--- G.
You clealy have no knowledge of what the term "riot" means!
FOOL!
Quote: from AK47 on 2:05 pm on June 20, 2003
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 1:50 pm on June 20, 2003
You really are an idiot aren't you RAM? Does the phrase OLDHAM RACE RIOTS ring a bell??
Ever heard of a place called flippin' Belfast?? Ever actually opened a damned newspaper??
--- G.
I was talking to my Uncle who teaches A-Level law and he told me that, an official riot only occurs when the police lose all control. In these cercumstances Mashal law is declared by the government in those areas and the army are called in, and they have special powers... So I disagree with you Dhul we have not had a proper Riot for a very long time. But what it has todo with the morality of the police i am not quite sure.
Anyway anyone who wants the complete abolishment of the police is ignorant. We just let petty Crime occur and ruin the lives of loads of people? I think not.
As to those who believe that the police are Fascist I suggest you look up the word fascist in a dictionary and stop making stupid comments. Individual cops may be fascists but then again so may individual office workers. That does not mean that I generalise an entire employment sector.
When I see those pics, I think fascists, not people.
When I see your posts I see ignorance.
(Edited by AK47 at 2:07 pm on June 20, 2003)
Very good post AK47 and it is all correct!
Oh look I have agread with AK47 again should I take my penis out of his arse now?
(I do not do that was just to show the attitude that some of you have for AK47 and I agreeing and defending each other! Also why do you always have the mention arse in thse thigns why not just say stop sucking up to him?)
I find it crazy some of your views on the police! People like RedStar will call them police pussies because they wear so much padding and protection err that is to protect themsleves from petrol bomb, fireworks and all of the other shit that people throw at them and that just proves that they are here to make trouble rather than protest about the issues.
E.g. May Day in London one year some people were going "POLICE SCUM, POLICE SCUM" at the police. The police then fought back and its "POLICE BRUTALETY, they started on us for no reason urrrhhh cry, cry" Err no used caused it! It is also so petty and childish violence as well they seem to think that hitting a policeman will change the world!
Anyway it is often then violent minority that spoil these protest for everyone and make real protesters look bad and cause the trouble and are only there to fight the police whn of course they will lose everytime and if they win what does that do start anachy and the break of scociety!
Dhul Fiqar
20th June 2003, 16:24
ROFLMAO, you mean like you NEVER resort to accusing people of sucking up to redstar!?! That's like your #1 fucking argument through all of this you dispicable hypocrite!
And stand in the middle of one of the riots in recent history and tell me it's not a riot because Webster's bleedin' dictionary disagrees! The police call it a fucking riot, it's a riot.
Now piss off and go play with your legos or post on boards where people don't universally revile you.
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 4:24 pm on June 20, 2003
ROFLMAO, you mean like you NEVER resort to accusing people of sucking up to redstar!?! That's like your #1 fucking argument through all of this you dispicable hypocrite!
And stand in the middle of one of the riots in recent history and tell me it's not a riot because Webster's bleedin' dictionary disagrees! The police call it a fucking riot, it's a riot.
Now piss off and go play with your legos or post on boards where people don't universally revile you.
--- G.
LOOK IT IS NOT A RIOT YOU FOOL!!!
AND THERE IS NO GOOD SAYING THAT ITS LIKE ONE BECUASE I DOUBT THAT ANY OF US HAVE EVER SEEN AN OFFICAL RIOT!
ERR THE POLICE NEVER CALL IT A RIOT YOU FOOL!
I liken this to the episode of the Simpson’s where Frank Grimes has the aim of proving that Homer Simpson is an idiot but everyone else believes that he is not when he clearly is. I think that RedStar2000 being Homer Simpson and me being Frank Grimes!
(Edited by RAM at 4:27 pm on June 20, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 5:38 pm on June 20, 2003)
Moskitto
20th June 2003, 17:36
Ha ha, someone who denies plants make chemicals to talk to each other which later becomes our main fuel source, what an idiot.
anti machine
20th June 2003, 17:45
Dhul...seriously bro, i've never seen you lose your composure like this. Your words, impassioned as they may be, are falling on deaf ears. We've got to give this up. Arguing with ignorance yeilds no results. Accept it. I know it's frustrating, but we cannot allow ourselves to fuel him, which is all our flaming does for the twit.
We ALL need to take a damn breath and cease to dig ourselves deeper into the giant RAM hole. Some people are incapable of comprehension, and thusly a waste of our time.
Quote: from anti machine on 5:45 pm on June 20, 2003
Dhul...seriously bro, i've never seen you lose your composure like this. Your words, impassioned as they may be, are falling on deaf ears. We've got to give this up. Arguing with ignorance yeilds no results. Accept it. I know it's frustrating, but we cannot allow ourselves to fuel him, which is all our flaming does for the twit.
We ALL need to take a damn breath and cease to dig ourselves deeper into the giant RAM hole. Some people are incapable of comprehension, and thusly a waste of our time.
Oh so you don't like people who are incompohensible then ok thats lets see dyslexics, people with speech impediments etc...
YOU ARE EVIL ANTI MACHINE!
Invader Zim
20th June 2003, 17:58
Jesus christ I have been reading through RAMS posts and threads, you would be amazed at the amount of abuse he has been given. Most of it before he started any flaming of his own. Then people try to compair him to Andrey etc. Well thats just hypocracy at best, the fact that its generally the same people attacking him. Yes RAM made some stupid posts especially that MOAB thread , and people have been violantly against anything he has posted since. Bling opposition no-matter what it has been.
Then I have been attacked for defending him, well what the hell is going on there? Have I made MOAB threads why should I be flamed?
Also if yoiu actualy read the first post of this thread then I can not see a problem with it other than the author is a member of this message board.
Anti Machine did not even make the attempt to argue one of the points in RAMS opening post, just flamed him. Then people like him have the hypocracy to accuse him of being a flamer, to use Anti Machines own words: -
"I didn't see ANY attempt to stop flaming me."
If you responded to me like you did him, neither would I.
So those who accuse RAM of Flaming if you did not flame him perhaps he would not flame you... Just a suggestion. But I ahve been accused of being an inferior being... So what do I know?
Acording to some on here I should be in a care home and then get executed for murdering a person even though I would not understand the consequences of my actions...
Dhul Fiqar
20th June 2003, 18:11
Quote: from anti machine on 1:45 am on June 21, 2003
Dhul...seriously bro, i've never seen you lose your composure like this. Your words, impassioned as they may be, are falling on deaf ears. We've got to give this up. Arguing with ignorance yeilds no results. Accept it. I know it's frustrating, but we cannot allow ourselves to fuel him, which is all our flaming does for the twit.
We ALL need to take a damn breath and cease to dig ourselves deeper into the giant RAM hole. Some people are incapable of comprehension, and thusly a waste of our time.
I agree, I'm out of here. For the record, the reason I totally lost it was the "don't accuse AK47 of kissing up to me" comment. I mean that is like the Israelis asking the Palestinians: "Don't use Apaches against us, it's not cool!"
This, paired with his assertion that no riots have taken place in the UK in recent times simply made me angry at myself for having tried to reason with this so-called person. I might as well have been trying to make my piss taste good, it's possible to adjust your diet to make it less foul and it is possible to water it down by drinking a lot of water, but there is no way it's ever going to be palatable.
Same with RAM, even if a tiny bit of what we say gets through, he'll still be unpalatable. He'd still just be watered down piss.
As for the "you're kissing up" thing, it has been the WARCRY of him and his kind whenever ANYTHING worthy comes out of redstar and he is praised for it. It simply astounds me that a human being with enough mental faculties to actually log on to the internet and find a page such as this one would shoot himself so incredibly in the leg. It truly beggars belief he would say that, but I suppose it is only the climax of a startlingly rapid rise to complete and utter idiocy.
This is the last I have to say on the subject: The police have RIOT SQUADS. They are called out for RIOTS. They are equipped with RIOT GEAR. They USE THESE TERMS THEMSELVES. The police have given several interviews regarding the RACE RIOTS in Oldham. At no point did I ever see anyone correct themselves and say: "Oops, I didn't mean riot, since this doesn't fit the dictionary definition, we were just being pelted with petrol bombs and everything was going to hell and back, but in fact we had a slight amount of control and according Merriam-Webster's dictionary of the English language it was simply a disturbance, albeit on a grand scale."
If your precious police consider it a riot, nobody gives a flying fuck what the dictionary people think.
I should never have come here. I hope to never hear from you again RAM, and may big rocks rain on you from the sky and all your pudding taste sour.
--- G.
edited: Mainly because I may have slipped up with the AK47 reference and don't have the strong stomache required to go through 100 of his anti-redstar posts to find out. I also elaborated on the watered down piss comparison, because the more I think about it, the better it seems to fit.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:11 pm on June 20, 2003
Quote: from anti machine on 1:45 am on June 21, 2003
Dhul...seriously bro, i've never seen you lose your composure like this. Your words, impassioned as they may be, are falling on deaf ears. We've got to give this up. Arguing with ignorance yeilds no results. Accept it. I know it's frustrating, but we cannot allow ourselves to fuel him, which is all our flaming does for the twit.
We ALL need to take a damn breath and cease to dig ourselves deeper into the giant RAM hole. Some people are incapable of comprehension, and thusly a waste of our time.
I agree, I'm out of here. For the record, the reason I totally lost it was the "don't accuse AK47 of kissing up to me" comment. I mean that is like the Israelis asking the Palestinians: "Don't use Apaches against us, it's not cool!"
This, paired with his assertion that no riots have taken place in the UK in recent times simply made me angry at myself for having tried to reason with this so-called person. I might as well have been trying to make my piss taste good, it's possible to adjust your diet to make it less foul but there is no way it's ever going to be palatable. Same with RAM, even if a tiny bit of what we say gets through, he'll still be unpalatable.
As for the "you're kissing up" thing, it has been the WARCRY of his and AK47 whenever ANYTHING worthy comes out of redstar and he is praised for it. It simply astounds me that a human being with enough mental faculties to actually log on to the internet and find a page such as this one would shoot himself so incredibly in the leg. It truly beggars belief he would say that, but I suppose it is only the climax of a startlingly rapid rise to complete and utter idiocy.
This is the last I have to say on the subject: The police have RIOT SQUADS. They are called out for RIOTS. They are equipped with RIOT GEAR. They USE THESE TERMS THEMSELVES. The police have given several interviews regarding the RACE RIOTS in Oldham. At no point did I ever see anyone correct themselves and say: "Oops, I didn't mean riot, since this doesn't fit the dictionary definition, we were just being pelted with petrol bombs and everything was going to hell and back, but in fact we had a slight amount of control and according Merriam-Webster's dictionary of the English language it was simply a disturbance, albeit on a grand scale."
I should never have come here. I hope to never hear from you again RAM, and may big rocks rain on you from the sky and all your pudding taste sour.
--- G.
You are a nice person arn't you Dhul Fiqar?
A riot is more than 12 people in UK law!
I know that they have riot gear and riot police what is your point? Mine is that the term riot is commonly misuded!
Oh and if anyone says that the police are brutail then they have to be to keep order! What would our world be like if the police diden't use pain compliance or wear protective kit like this: -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/545000/images/_547302_seattle_policeman_inf300.gif
They need to be better then us so we can live our lives and not have our lives run by criminals, thugs and gangs!
(Edited by RAM at 6:23 pm on June 20, 2003)
Invader Zim
20th June 2003, 18:33
As for the "you're kissing up" thing, it has been the WARCRY of his and AK47 whenever ANYTHING worthy comes out of redstar and he is praised for it.
--- G.
Excuse me but when exactly did I say that people were sucking up to RS2000? I dont recall saying that, so why am I being branded with the words of another person exactly?
Yes I defend RAM against attacks, that does not mean that I have said every thing which he has. It does not mean I follow his ideology even. So I would ask you to not add words to my mouth.
Thanks
Quote: from AK47 on 6:33 pm on June 20, 2003
As for the "you're kissing up" thing, it has been the WARCRY of his and AK47 whenever ANYTHING worthy comes out of redstar and he is praised for it.
--- G.
Excuse me but when exactly did I say that people were sucking up to RS2000? I dont recall saying that, so why am I being branded with the words of another person exactly?
Yes I defend RAM against attacks, that does not mean that I have said every thing which he has. It does not mean I follow his ideology even. So I would ask you to not add words to my mouth.
Thanks
I agree
Moskitto
20th June 2003, 20:02
I do not see anyone who denies all biology as being worthy of having any intelligent discussion with, this includes individuals such as christian fundamentalists, racists and redstar2000.
Quote: from Moskitto on 8:02 pm on June 20, 2003
I do not see anyone who denies all biology as being worthy of having any intelligent discussion with, this includes individuals such as christian fundamentalists, racists and redstar2000.
I agree!
Come on RedStar2000 proove that you exist!
anti machine
20th June 2003, 22:11
Quote: from Moskitto on 8:02 pm on June 20, 2003
I do not see anyone who denies all biology as being worthy of having any intelligent discussion with, this includes individuals such as christian fundamentalists, racists and redstar2000.
Do the post-post modernist existentialists count? Add them to your list.
Moskitto
20th June 2003, 23:04
Quote: from anti machine on 10:11 pm on June 20, 2003
Quote: from Moskitto on 8:02 pm on June 20, 2003
I do not see anyone who denies all biology as being worthy of having any intelligent discussion with, this includes individuals such as christian fundamentalists, racists and redstar2000.
Do the post-post modernist existentialists count? Add them to your list.
I'm sure if they deny biology they count and therefore exist on the list.
redstar2000
21st June 2003, 02:28
I'm still waiting for Moskitto to back up RAM when he (RAM) asserted that I "should have been aborted". Come on, Moskitto, don't let your comrade down.
Aside from the hilarious attacks on me, the central point of this thread is quite clear. RAM, Moskitto, and AK47 are "cop-groupies", not leftists in any meaningful sense of that word.
They have a lot of support for their position...all of it from the pro-capitalists in Opposing Ideologies.
I think that is where all three of them belong.
But I would not be in favor of a ban, particularly against RAM...his sputtering and incoherent abuse is among the funniest things I've ever read on the internet. Mazdak used to be pretty funny at times...but RAM is far superior. He is a master of the verbal "pratfall" and can tie himself into logical knots of his own making in a way that I have never observed before.
Once you stop taking RAM seriously, you can then appreciate his real, if unconscious, talent...combining the comedy of the absurd (Groucho Marx), the infantile mewling incompetence of Jerry Lewis, and the overall magnificant clumsiness of the Keystone Kops.
It occurs to me, in fact, that of all the members of Che-Lives, RAM stands out as the only one with a talent that has the potential for real financial success in the capitalist world. As an entertainer, he could be famous some day...far more than all the rest of us put together.
Should that happen, let us all take some pride in that...we gave him his first big break.
:cool:
Iron Star
21st June 2003, 08:36
ram:
why do you end half your sentences in exclamation points?
Quote: from Iron Star on 8:36 am on June 21, 2003
ram:
why do you end half your sentences in exclamation points?
Becuase I am Mad at Redstar2000!!!
Redstar STILL has not proved that he is real!
synthesis
21st June 2003, 08:49
Redstar STILL has not proved that he is real!
Red, I would love it if you put this in your signature, or on your website, or something - this is fucking classic!
Redstar the Imaginary - I like the sound of it :biggrin:
Quote: from DyerMaker on 8:49 am on June 21, 2003
Redstar STILL has not proved that he is real!
Red, I would love it if you put this in your signature, or on your website, or something - this is fucking classic!
Redstar the Imaginary - I like the sound of it :biggrin:
He could prove it by details e.g. photo, etc..
Moskitto
21st June 2003, 20:21
I'm still waiting for Moskitto to back up RAM when he (RAM) asserted that I "should have been aborted". Come on, Moskitto, don't let your comrade down.
when I read that the first time he said it i turned to the right and started banging my head against the cork wall in my room shouting "ARGH THE FOOL, THE FOOL, THE FOOL...!!!!"
I had a thought it is the weekend so its time for another RedStar2000 paper
(Edited by RAM at 8:28 pm on June 21, 2003)
Moskitto
21st June 2003, 20:43
Quote: from RAM on 8:27 pm on June 21, 2003
I had a thought it is the weekend so its time for another RedStar2000 paper
(Edited by RAM at 8:28 pm on June 21, 2003)
I had a thought, why do you shut the fuck up and give me a decent explaination as to why a wedge, with the balls of your foot and heel still in contact with the board, reduce boat control? Surely if the balls of your feet are on a laterally flat object then you've still got the same amount of control. And this talk of ergonomics? well explain why car break, accelerator and clutch pedals are at an angle rather than flat? because they're more comfortable perhaps?
Redstar, you tend to have rather radical views on issues of a scientific nature, what is you're opinion, is your foot more comfortable on a flat object or on an incline?
Moskitto
21st June 2003, 20:49
I just had a thought, I don't think the website is in the low colours version, although I am colourblind, I can see at least 3 different shades of red, something i wouldn't imagine a low colour version to have.
anti machine
21st June 2003, 21:11
it might be because i'm high...but what the FUCK did moskitto just say???
Moskitto
21st June 2003, 21:48
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/flat.jpg
This design is seen as being more ergonomic and more controlable, however I am of the opinion that
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/wedge.jpg
is infact a far more egronomic design simply because your foot doesn't actually go at the first angle, and it still retains the same level of control because the ball of the foot is still on a solid object, infact at all times, also because of the angle there is more forward pressure (compare pushing yourself off a wall and the floor), but everyone seems to disagree with this school of thought because the first method is generally accepted as better even there is little analysis into the situation compared to other sports. Like Michael Johnson where everyone thought his style was less efficient until he retired and they discovered it was more efficient, when I win my 18th consecutive world marathon championship title at the age of 48 and I finally decide to retire they'll analyse it and discover it's better.
The depiction of the police as being facist, racist, homophobic etc all comes from the media. The media will never, just like in any other subject usualy report on the good things that the police do and if the media culture changed so that they reported some of the good that the police do then the police would be proven to be a force for good and to be a victim that is always caught in the middle of protests etc. For example I find it hard to find an image of police in noraml uniform where they are not wearing riot gear! Does this proove that the police NEVER waer normal uniform? No it does not liklewise I can find lots of images of the police in riot gear but that is no the majority of policing that they do and that is why the police have a bad image with some members here becuase all they see is the bad things and hardly ever the good work of the police due to the media.
(NB. When I used the term riot I mean large public disorder)
Eastside Revolt
21st June 2003, 23:04
Shut the fuck up and get raped by a police officer, that's all I will say because I am ignorant and I believe all that propoganda about the pigs being facist. LOL
Y'know, it's not like there are brainwash cop shows on TV every night that show police pulling over and arresting poor people again, and again, and agai......
Quote: from redcanada on 11:04 pm on June 21, 2003
Shut the fuck up and get raped by a police officer, that's all I will say because I am ignorant and I believe all that propoganda about the pigs being facist. LOL
Y'know, it's not like there are brainwash cop shows on TV every night that show police pulling over and arresting poor people again, and again, and agai......
Err the police arrest people e.g. murders, drug dealers etc which mkaes us all safer including the polcie as well. Are you saying that we should abandon the police and use the army?
Also why do you keep on saying "get raped by a police officer"?
ÑóẊîöʼn
22nd June 2003, 14:33
OK if Redstar doesn't exist then who is posting the messages? do they just appear all by themselves?
Fucking stupid argument.
Quote: from NoXion on 2:33 pm on June 22, 2003
OK if Redstar doesn't exist then who is posting the messages? do they just appear all by themselves?
Fucking stupid argument.
I am only being stupid like redstar is!
Moskitto
22nd June 2003, 16:01
Quote: from NoXion on 2:33 pm on June 22, 2003
OK if Redstar doesn't exist then who is posting the messages? do they just appear all by themselves?
Fucking stupid argument.
i take it you've never heard of macros?
Dhul Fiqar
22nd June 2003, 17:10
:rollseyes:
Moskitto
22nd June 2003, 17:14
based of course on the fact that i used to be a member of a forum where someone created a program to write random posts on forums in multiple numbers, and create and send multiple random game files
Dhul Fiqar
22nd June 2003, 17:34
[comic book guy voice] Worst theory ever. [/comic book guy voice]
--- G.
Mr Akbar
22nd June 2003, 17:40
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/keelyou.jpg
Dhul Fiqar
22nd June 2003, 17:46
Allahu Akbar!! ;)
--- G.
Quote: from Mr Akbar on 5:40 pm on June 22, 2003
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/keelyou.jpg
Eep!
Quote: from RAM on 5:55 pm on June 22, 2003
Quote: from Mr Akbar on 5:40 pm on June 22, 2003
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/keelyou.jpg
Eep!
http://www.unb.ca/web/bruns/0203/summer/news/halifax/gun.jpg
On Mr Akbar!
Nah no not really!
(Edited by RAM at 6:01 pm on June 22, 2003)
Mr Akbar
22nd June 2003, 18:02
This "eep" you speak of, it is not help you now, ahahahahha!!!
I need a spare army with some decent weapons to take on Mr Akbar!
Anyone know where I can find one?
Blibblob
22nd June 2003, 18:09
Say "look, muslim" to Bush, and he'll give you some. ;) :biggrin:
Mr Akbar
22nd June 2003, 18:14
Ahaha, we are have every keel you now!
Heere is army we are having now!
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/kods-05
And we are having all of the many many plan for these future!!
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/kods-06
They will growing up to keel you, if you are no very dead now!!
Mr Akbar
22nd June 2003, 18:34
If you can do the spotting of me in the pic of the crowd, I am giving you free official Hezbollah chcolate bars! TWO BOX!!!
Moskitto
22nd June 2003, 18:35
ha ha ha, your armies look like kids compared to mine, my armies are cleaning what your whol army weighs!
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
http://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gifhttp://www.fightcapitalism.net/users/moskitto/canoeing/weights/cleans.gif
(Edited by Moskitto at 6:37 pm on June 22, 2003)
Mr Akbar
22nd June 2003, 18:41
Haha, you are the post do have been on these doing these drawing of the sdickmens, yes?
Blibblob
22nd June 2003, 18:41
What an enlightening post.
Quote: from Mr Akbar on 6:14 pm on June 22, 2003
Ahaha, we are have every keel you now!
Heere is army we are having now!
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/kods-05
And we are having all of the many many plan for these future!!
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/kods-06
They will growing up to keel you, if you are no very dead now!!
ROFLMAO!!!!
Ok here is my army: -
http://www.msnbc.com/news/1180675.jpg
Any last words Mr Akbar
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/510000/images/_514368_riot_police150.jpg
Here are my body guards!
http://havc.org/gallery_wto/images/riot-police-armored.jpg
http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/avon_technical/riot-police.jpg
http://www.staticfiends.com/galleries/government_galleries/riot%20police(sweden)5.jpg
http://www.warblogging.com/illustrations/riot.advance.jpg
http://bureaucrash.com/campaigns/counterprotest/quebec/riot_police.jpg
http://www.tntaxrevolt.org/riotpolice-5-22.jpg
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/images/bcn/bcn11.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/international/features/bowling_papua/pics/riot_police.jpg
http://cybertraveler.org/wto/wto06.jpg
Mr Akbar
22nd June 2003, 18:46
Haha, I have eating your teeth before you are seeing these pictures for yours!
OK?
Quote: from Mr Akbar on 6:46 pm on June 22, 2003
Haha, I have eating your teeth before you are seeing these pictures for yours!
OK?
Ouch my teeth!
Police get him use the ELECTRONIC CAPTURE SHIELD!
Anonymous
22nd June 2003, 18:52
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 12:46 pm on June 22, 2003
Allahu Akbar!! ;)
--- G.
This thread is now complete.
(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 1:53 pm on June 22, 2003)
Mr Akbar
22nd June 2003, 18:58
Isn't it just? lol
Eveidently some people missed my post about the whole Akbar - Mr. Akbar issue ;)
--- G.
(Edited by Mr Akbar at 6:59 pm on June 22, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
22nd June 2003, 19:02
To make a long story short I created Mr. Akbar to honour Akbar when he left us.
He is not a real person, but he is based on one :biggrin:
Anonymous
22nd June 2003, 19:03
(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 2:03 pm on June 22, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
22nd June 2003, 19:07
Dude, what's with the editing? Speak your mind! ;)
--- G.
Dhul Fiqar
22nd June 2003, 20:41
Dude, we won't bite... ;)
--- G.
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 7:03 pm on June 22, 2003
(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 2:03 pm on June 22, 2003)
Maybe he posted something that he then realised that he should not have posted at all?????
The police are GOOD people e.g. this: -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_y...ire/3011356.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3011356.stm)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2081217.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2086240.stm
I would also consider a police officer to be the emoodiment of all human virtues that we shoul all strive to have. I may even be a police officer one day.
Eastside Revolt
23rd June 2003, 18:14
You must have never dealt with a PIG in your life.
Quote: from redcanada on 6:14 pm on June 23, 2003
You must have never dealt with a PIG in your life.
No I have not! Ok then why don't you tell us your experince with this metaphorical PIG then?
(Edited by RAM at 6:26 pm on June 23, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
23rd June 2003, 19:20
LOL, the source of your ridiculous notions exposed: total and utter lack of experience.
It's only a matter of time, mate, before they fuck with your or your friend/s.
I've seen them throw little girls down stairs, I've seen them beat an Arab 14 year old even when he was the only one in a crowd of teens not drinking (they took him into a big van and beat him up while driving around and shouting racist abuse at him, then threw him out on the pavement where the street party was still going on).
I have known people that have had large sums of money and serious amounts of drugs stolen from them by police, not taken into evidence, just taken into their fucking pocket.
I have heard police tell a friend of mine they were going to beat the shit out of him in a notorious location that they had taken him to before and beaten him there.
I have been interrogated by police, but never physically abused, but they lied and tried to trick me into all kinds of bullshit.
In my experience, they are worse than any drug dealer I have come across.
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 7:20 pm on June 23, 2003
LOL, the source of your ridiculous notions exposed: total and utter lack of experience.
It's only a matter of time, mate, before they fuck with your or your friend/s.
I've seen them throw little girls down stairs, I've seen them beat an Arab 14 year old even when he was the only one in a crowd of teens not drinking (they took him into a big van and beat him up while driving around and shouting racist abuse at him, then threw him out on the pavement where the street party was still going on).
I have known people that have had large sums of money and serious amounts of drugs stolen from them by police, not taken into evidence, just taken into their fucking pocket.
I have heard police tell a friend of mine they were going to beat the shit out of him in a notorious location that they had taken him to before and beaten him there.
I have been interrogated by police, but never physically abused, but they lied and tried to trick me into all kinds of bullshit.
In my experience, they are worse than any drug dealer I have come across.
--- G.
Dhul Fiqar you fail to see that your stories are not the norm at all and our the exception that ALWAYS get reported to the media! Like I have said many at a time they do a lot of good work that is NEVER reported!
Dhul Fiqar
23rd June 2003, 20:17
I'm not talking about the fucking media, I'm talking about my personal experience and that of all my friends, both drug users and non-drug users.
I know a girl who's dad is a cop, and she has the worst stories of them all, shit her dad actually told her. They are knee-deep in BAD shit, and that has NOTHING to do with the media, whatever you want to tell yourself. In fact, if the media would report half of what goes on, there would be riots, by any dictionary definition, against the police.
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 8:17 pm on June 23, 2003
I'm not talking about the fucking media, I'm talking about my personal experience and that of all my friends, both drug users and non-drug users.
I know a girl who's dad is a cop, and she has the worst stories of them all, shit her dad actually told her. They are knee-deep in BAD shit, and that has NOTHING to do with the media, whatever you want to tell yourself. In fact, if the media would report half of what goes on, there would be riots, by any dictionary definition, against the police.
--- G.
That is bad and I am sorry to hear that, but what would the world be like without a police force even if it has some who are ractist, homophobic etc...
I guess a problem with the nature of the police is that they can end up dealing with the people in society who need the most help and are not the worst people in society just people that need help if they want it.
(Edited by RAM at 8:48 pm on June 23, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
23rd June 2003, 20:53
We're not advocating abolition of all criminal law, a point that has been thoroughly lost on you.
We are advocating an abolition of the culture of "police" in modern societies, a culture of authoritarianism rather than regulation based on upholding community spirit, of force over social help. The police is not what you seem to think it is, and we think it should be EXACTLY what you seem to think it is.
A force for good.
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 8:53 pm on June 23, 2003
We're not advocating abolition of all criminal law, a point that has been thoroughly lost on you.
We are advocating an abolition of the culture of "police" in modern societies, a culture of authoritarianism rather than regulation based on upholding community spirit, of force over social help. The police is not what you seem to think it is, and we think it should be EXACTLY what you seem to think it is.
A force for good.
--- G.
Well at least we agree on the aim that the police should aim for even if we think that the police are at diffrent stages in achiving there goal which is for good
redstar2000
23rd June 2003, 22:40
Quote: from RAM on 12:09 pm on June 23, 2003
The police are GOOD people e.g. this: -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_y...ire/3011356.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3011356.stm)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2081217.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2086240.stm
I would also consider a police officer to be the emoodiment of all human virtues that we shoul all strive to have. I may even be a police officer one day.
Yes, RAM, physical courage does rank very high on the list of "virtues" within the police sub-culture...that is why I included it.
As AK47's "designated ethics expert", I would expect you to look past such a commonplace virtue and inquire what else characterizes the police sub-culture.
Your loving description of "pain compliance" early in this thread suggests what you're really looking forward to in your future career.
Just remember, RAM, when you see a demonstration and the people are shouting "POLICE SCUM!"...they're talking about you.
Accurately, as it happens.
:cool:
anti machine
24th June 2003, 00:46
this was from a couple days ago, but i couldn't let DC get away with this. He posted pictures of riot police, some close ups where the officers faces could be seen, and directed this to:
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:04 pm on June 18, 2003
Redstar. It's to show that even riot police are people too.
Well congradulations. Indeed, they are. I suppose that means THIS guy is a person too...
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/General/Pictures/1999/10/08/pinochet.jpg
Or these guys. I'm pretty sure THEY were people as well...
http://www.oldeagle.pp.se/hitler/ah20.jpg
So they're people...super. That, uh, makes them unique in some form or fashion? They're one of "us", and therefore not deserving of our justified criticism?
Eastside Revolt
24th June 2003, 08:45
Quote: from RAM on 6:26 pm on June 23, 2003
Quote: from redcanada on 6:14 pm on June 23, 2003
You must have never dealt with a PIG in your life.
No I have not! Ok then why don't you tell us your experince with this metaphorical PIG then?
(Edited by RAM at 6:26 pm on June 23, 2003)
Oh shit you shouldn't have asked me that.
A week ago, a freind of mine from work was chillin' in his downtown apartment with his neice. They hear this horrible rackett in the hall outside, its a man screaming "SOMEONE HELP I"M DYING!!!". He gets his neice to call 9-1-1 as he goes out to see what's up. It's a poor man and he is bleeding profussley from stab wounds to the upper-back, neck, and chest. A police officer arives before the ambulance, my freind goes out to direct the PIG to the dying man, ofcourse he is really riled-up and he is trying to get the PIG to hurry. He says "Don't worry, calm-down, this happens all the time". My freind gets back up to the victim minutes before the PIG mosies on up. Him and his neice are wrapping-up the wound with their own clothes. They ask the PIG to help and he says "what?" and chuckles while they struggle to stop the bleeding untill the ambulance gets there.
Aswell, I can't tell you the amounts of times that I have been punched, shoved-over, smashed with mag-lights, and put in holds for not shutting up or doing as a PIG orders me.
There have been over seventy women (mostly poor drug-addicted sex-trade workers) that have gone missing from the Downtown East-side of my city in less than 10 years, the police still laugh most of the time when women run-up in the area, screaming to help and that someone is trying to kill them.
Nah, they're not the class-enemy, I just pay attention to propaganda.
Sabocat
24th June 2003, 11:18
Years ago, I worked with a PIG who trained police dogs. He told me that they used to bring the "new" dogs down to the subway to let them get "their first bite" on the homeless down there. He said it was safe, 'cause no one at the hospital believed them when they told the doctors and nurses that they had been bitten by a police dog.
Just Friday, there was an article in the local paper stating that 17 police officers were being indicted on various charges of corruption, brutallity, and racial profiling in Detroit. 17.
On the same day, there was a hearing to determine if 2 cops in the Boston area were going to be put on trial for shooting a mentally disturbed women wielding a knife. They shot her 18 times.
Yeah...great bunch of guys.
Quote: from redstar2000 on 10:40 pm on June 23, 2003
Quote: from RAM on 12:09 pm on June 23, 2003
The police are GOOD people e.g. this: -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_y...ire/3011356.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3011356.stm)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2081217.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2086240.stm
I would also consider a police officer to be the emoodiment of all human virtues that we shoul all strive to have. I may even be a police officer one day.
Yes, RAM, physical courage does rank very high on the list of "virtues" within the police sub-culture...that is why I included it.
As AK47's "designated ethics expert", I would expect you to look past such a commonplace virtue and inquire what else characterizes the police sub-culture.
Your loving description of "pain compliance" early in this thread suggests what you're really looking forward to in your future career.
Just remember, RAM, when you see a demonstration and the people are shouting "POLICE SCUM!"...they're talking about you.
Accurately, as it happens.
:cool:
I have found this documents that you might like to read about the truth in joiing the UK Police Force. (Thames Valley Police)
Here is fitness guide which includes some of the details of the tests that they will do when you apply for Thames Valley Police
> Fitness Guidance
What will I need to be capable of?
Applicants must be physically fit enough to perform the duties of a constable safely and effectively and to handle police equipment. You’ll need strength, agility and stamina to deal with all kinds of situations and to be able to defend yourself if necessary.
You’ll need to take the national Job Related Fitness Test to ensure you can undertake physically demanding tasks like running, chasing suspects, and handling police equipment. The test is demanding and it’s a good idea to start your training now.
What does the test consist of?
There are three elements to the test and you must pass all of them before you can be appointed. We’re looking purely for the minimum standard to demonstrate you will be able to work effectively as a police officer. You’ll be given help to improve your fitness and if you prepare yourself properly, there’s no reason for you to fail.
Once you are appointed you’ll need to maintain your fitness and will be regularly assessed during probation.
What if I don’t pass first time?
Even if you don’t pass the test at your first attempt you can re-take it. However, if you fail the test after three attempts your application will be halted and you will not be eligible to re-apply for six months.
The test
The three test elements are speed and agility, grip strength, dynamic strength and endurance fitness. You need to achieve:
a grip strength of 32kgs
dynamic strength (Upper-body strength) on a dyno machine – push strength of 34 kg; pull strength of 35 kg
endurance fitness (multi-stage shuttle run); 4 shuttles at level 5 (5/4)
Performance on each of these provides a good indicator of your capability of performing various police tasks. The test elements are run consecutively and minimum standards need to be achieved on each.
Grip Strength
Your grip strength will be assessed using a grip strength dynamometer. This involves simply gripping the dynamometer in your preferred hand and squeezing as hard as you can. The dynamometer will record the maximum force exerted in kilograms. You’ll be allowed two attempts and your best score will be recorded. You’ll need to exert a force of 32kgs to pass this element of the test.
You can improve your grip strength by holding a squash ball in your hand and crushing it as hard as you can for six seconds before releasing it. Repeat the process until your hand is tired. Practise this often. You can use waste paper rolled into a ball instead of a squash ball. You can also use weight-training exercises to improve your grip strength and improve your strength in other muscle groups at the same time.
Dynamic Strength
Your dynamic strength is assessed using a machine called the Dyno machine. The test involves performing five seated chest pushes and five seated back pulls on the machine. The average force of the sum of the five pushes and the average force of the sum of the five pulls is recorded.
Pushing
You’ll sit upright on the Dyno machine with your back firmly against the padding. Your feet must be flat on the floor with your knees at approximately 90 degrees. A firm grip is taken of the push bar, with your hands level with the middle of your sternum. (The test administrator will make sure you are in the correct position).
You’ll be asked to perform three warm-ups, followed by five pushes at maximum effort, with three seconds of recovery between each.
The average force produced during each effort will be displayed on the monitor and the average value of the five efforts will be displayed at the end of the set. You’ll need an average of 34kgs to pass.
Pulling
This time you’ll sit at the opposite end of the machine with your chest pushed against the padding. Your feet must be flat on the floor with your knees at about 90 degrees. A firm grip is taken of both the pull handles with your hands level with the middle of your sternum. (The test administrator will ensure you are in the correct position).
You’ll then perform three warm-ups, followed by five pulls at maximum effort, with three seconds of recovery between each. The average force produced during each effort will be displayed on the monitor and the average value of the five efforts will be displayed at the end of the set. You’ll need an average of 35kgs to pass.
The best way to improve your upper body strength is to perform resistance exercises using body weight, free weights or resistance machines. You can use weights and resistance machines at gyms or you can practise with press-ups. To improve your strength with press-ups, your hands should be shoulder-width apart and your arms vertical, your head fixed with eyes looking at the floor. Keep a straight body position throughout the action, making sure you go all the way down to touch your chest bone on the floor and then fully extend your arms on recovery. Try to breathe in as you push yourself up and out as you lower yourself.
Endurance Fitness
Here you’ll run to and fro along a 15-metre track in time with a series of bleeps. If you arrive at the end line before the bleep sounds, you need to wait for the bleep before resuming running and adjust your speed. The timing between bleeps is slow at first but the bleep becomes faster as the test progresses and it becomes more difficult to keep up with the required speed. You’ll run until you can no longer keep up with the set pace. You’ll need to reach a minimum of one shuttle at level 8 to pass.
To improve your stamina, take part in sporting activities that last 30 minutes or more and make you out of breath, such as football, netball or squash. You can also make rapid improvements through activities that create a large aerobic demand, such as jogging, cycling, swimming and rowing. Try jogging for 20 minutes or more and, as you improve, try to increase the distance covered in that time. Alternatively, jog a set distance from home and back again and try to reduce the time taken to cover the distance.
You should exercise three times a week for 20 minutes, but if you’re not used to exercise you should start with gentle sessions lasting no more than 15 minutes.
Warming up and cooling down
Before any exercise it’s important to warm the body up to prepare it for the exercise that will follow. This will decrease the risk of injury. The activities performed during warm-up should be relatively slow and rhythmical, such as light jogging or cycling.
Along with the physical exercise that you perform, adequate recovery time is important. Cooling down after exercise will help you to recover and prevent muscle soreness. Your cool down should consist of a light exercise which gradually decreases in intensity, combined with some gentle stretches, particularly for the muscles that have just been worked.
Training tips
Due to the scheduling of the recruitment process, little notice may be given of the test dates - so start training now for your fitness test.
Try to train as much as possible with friends, as this will make your exercise programme both more enjoyable and safer.
Monitor your progress by recording times taken, distances covered and recovery times. This will give you feedback on improvements and an incentive to continue training.
Set yourself targets that can be realistically achieved. This will help motivate you.
Don’t overdo your training. Start gently and build up gradually over a period of weeks or months.
Spread fitness sessions out rather than playing squash, weight training and swimming all in one day and then doing nothing else for the rest of the week.
Developing your training programme
Here’s an example of a training programme which incorporates training for all four elements of the tests. Training need only take three hours a week.
DAY WARM-UP ACTIVITY 1 ACTIVITY 2 COOLING DOWN
Monday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Tuesday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip 5
minutes
Wednesday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Thursday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip
5 minutes
Friday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Saturday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip
5 minutes
Sunday REST REST
Familiarisation courses
These allow you to practice the Job Related Fitness Test, and are held regularly throughout England & Wales. They offer the opportunity to become familiar with the test, try out the equipment and ask any questions you may have about the test. Force Physical Training Instructors will also be available to give advice on a personal training programme to prepare you for taking the test. If you’d like further information about what help is available in your local area, contact your nearest force.
(From here: - http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/default.as...=article&ID=26) (http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=26))
Also here is a fact and fiction Q and A . Most of which some of you agree with the Myths of the Police
Fact & Fiction
MYTH: You have to be young to join the police service.
FACT: We’re not interested in how many birthdays you’ve celebrated. We’re interested in what you’ve learnt along the way and how willing you are to learn in the future. Of course, you have to be fit in mind and body and pass a series of tests. But so does everyone who applies, whatever their age. For more information visit the section on Eligibility.
Also within this section
MYTH: You need to be super-fit to join the police service.
FACT: As an officer, you’ll have to deal with a wide variety of situations, some of which require good judgement, as well as observational and people skills. Some, of course, will require a reasonable level of physical fitness. But you don’t have to be super-fit to join. You must generally be of good physique and be neither underweight nor overweight for your height. For more information, read the section on Fitness Guidance.
MYTH: You need GCSEs to join the police service.
FACT: Some qualifications can’t be learnt and these are often the most valuable. You need no formal qualifications to join the force, but you must have the intellectual capacity to cope with training requirements and the ability to manage the full range of tasks expected of a constable. To assess your ability, you will have to take literacy and numeracy ability tests during the recruitment process. For us, your past education is less important than what you are willing to learn in the future.
MYTH: There’s a minimum height for police officers.
FACT: Standing your ground and gaining control isn’t about feet and inches. It’s about experience and judgement. To us, your inside leg measurement is irrelevant, but how you measure a situation is imperative. Some of these skills may come naturally, but some will need to be taught. And after your training, you’ll be used to being above average.
Other myths and facts:
MYTH: You won’t be accepted if you can’t swim.
FACT: There’s no requirement to be able to swim.
MYTH: You can’t join if you’ve ever been convicted of a criminal offence.
FACT: It depends on the offence. To find out more read about the criminal convictions eligibility.
MYTH: You won’t be considered if you were once badly in debt and had a County Court Judgement against you.
FACT: Applicants who have discharged County Court Judgements may be considered. To find out more read about the Financial Vetting eligibility.
MYTH: You must have a driving license to join.
FACT: You will not be rejected because you cannot drive.
MYTH: You’ll be rejected if you have tattoos.
FACT: It depends on the subject matter. To find out more read about the Tattoos eligibility.
MYTH: You can’t join the police if you need to wear glasses.
FACT: Wearing glasses is not a bar to joining. To find out more read the Eyesight standards.
(From here: - http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/default.as...=article&ID=37) (http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=37))
Lastly here is a Criminal Conictions Q and A. Please note that the police are not likly to acept you if you have a
Racially motivated or homophobic offences
Here is the rest
Criminal Convictions
Police officers must respect and uphold the law. They should be law-abiding and have a high standard of personal behaviour and social conduct.
Officers with criminal associations or convictions may be vulnerable to pressure to disclose information. Convictions and cautions for certain offences can also undermine a police officer's position as a witness in court. For these reasons, police forces need to be careful about recruiting people with cautions or convictions.
Although you may still be eligible to join the police service if you have minor convictions/cautions, there are certain offences and conditions which will make you ineligible. Read the following and if you are still unsure, contact your local recruitment office.
Exclusions
Applications will not be accepted from those who have been convicted or cautioned for a serious arrestable offence including:
Murder
Manslaughter
Death by reckless driving
Rape
Kidnapping
Firearms offences
Gross indecency
Hostage taking
Hijacking or torture
In general, applications will also be rejected if an applicant has:
committed any offence (as an adult or juvenile) which resulted in a prison sentence, including custodial, suspended or deferred sentence and sentences served at a young offenders’ institution or community home
received a formal caution (including reprimands and final warnings) for a recordable offence within the last five years
been convicted as a juvenile within the last five years for any recordable offence
any other recordable offence within the last five years other than those listed above.
(A recordable offence is any offence held on the Police National Computer. This includes offences punishable by imprisonment and others specified in the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000)
You must include spent convictions under the Rehabilitaion of Offenders Act 1974 (by virtue of the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exemptions) Order1975) or any involvement with civil, military or transport police.
Applicants are likely to be rejected if they have been involved in any of the following:
Offences involving serious violence or injury (including Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) and Actual Bodily Harm (ABH))
Offences involving unsolicited violence towards others
Unlawful possession of weapons, firearms or going equipped to steal
Acts of indecency and abuse or neglect of children
Public Order offences – involvement in riot, violent disorder, affray, causing intentional harassment, alarm or distress
Racially motivated or homophobic offences
Burglary and offences which involve elements or acts of dishonesty, corruption, substantial financial gain or serious loss to anyone including theft, fraud and deception
Serious involvement in drugs including possession of a Class A drug (heroin, morphine) or more than one Class B drug (amphetamines) and/or supplying drugs of any kind
Reckless or Dangerous Driving; or one offence of drink driving, drunk in charge, or drugs driving, within the last ten years
Other serious motoring offences such as convictions within the last five years, driving without insurance, failing to stop after an accident or driving whilst disqualified
More than three endorseable traffic convictions (including fixed penalties) and/or two or more convictions for regulatory offences within the last five years such as failure to renew vehicle excise licence.
This is a guide only. If you have doubts about whether you qualify, please contact your local recruitment office for further advice.
An applicant’s age at the time of an offence and the aggravating circumstances surrounding the offence will all have a bearing in the following cases:
Drunk and Disorderly – no more than one offence and only after two years have elapsed following a caution or three years have elapsed following a bindover/conviction.
Minor drugs offences or substance abuse – no more than one offence and only after two years have elapsed following a caution or three from conviction
Common Assault – no more than one offence as a juvenile or young adult and only after two years have elapsed from end of bindover/conviction
(From: - http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/default.as...=article&ID=29) (http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=29))
Yes I am but ONLY to people like YOU Redstar2000! Also pain compliance is far better than using a gun!
I am not a police officer RedStar2000!
(Edited by RAM at 1:57 pm on June 24, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 2:05 pm on June 24, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 4:13 pm on June 24, 2003)
Quote: from anti machine on 12:46 am on June 24, 2003
this was from a couple days ago, but i couldn't let DC get away with this. He posted pictures of riot police, some close ups where the officers faces could be seen, and directed this to:
Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:04 pm on June 18, 2003
Redstar. It's to show that even riot police are people too.
Well congradulations. Indeed, they are. I suppose that means THIS guy is a person too...
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/General/Pictures/1999/10/08/pinochet.jpg
Or these guys. I'm pretty sure THEY were people as well...
http://www.oldeagle.pp.se/hitler/ah20.jpg
So they're people...super. That, uh, makes them unique in some form or fashion? They're one of "us", and therefore not deserving of our justified criticism?
Yes they are human beings. What are you saying anti machine? That I never critsice the police?
Quote: from Disgustapated on 11:18 am on June 24, 2003
Years ago, I worked with a PIG who trained police dogs. He told me that they used to bring the "new" dogs down to the subway to let them get "their first bite" on the homeless down there. He said it was safe, 'cause no one at the hospital believed them when they told the doctors and nurses that they had been bitten by a police dog.
Just Friday, there was an article in the local paper stating that 17 police officers were being indicted on various charges of corruption, brutallity, and racial profiling in Detroit. 17.
On the same day, there was a hearing to determine if 2 cops in the Boston area were going to be put on trial for shooting a mentally disturbed women wielding a knife. They shot her 18 times.
Yeah...great bunch of guys.
In the UK people can be disarmed the women of the knife by several police offices wearing riot gear or wearing stab vests etc. The women was a threat to herself and other people so she had to be disarmed of the knife anyway and it is sad that they had to use a gun to achive this.
You will get corruption in any job and this happened to be the policer wear cases of corruption can affect more people and cause more harm.
(Edited by RAM at 2:29 pm on June 24, 2003)
truthaddict11
24th June 2003, 15:03
I dont know why some people here want to get in bed with cops.
Personally I dont think any cop is one bit deserving of respect and that they are an enemy to the working class
Quote: from truthaddict11 on 3:03 pm on June 24, 2003
I dont know why some people here want to get in bed with cops.
Personally I dont think any cop is one bit deserving of respect and that they are an enemy to the working class
I do not want to get into bed with a cop, I think that cops are deserving of respect and this working class idea is lost on me.
Dhul Fiqar
24th June 2003, 16:21
Of course they are an enemy of the working class, this thread is getting more and more ridiculous and losing it's novelty value at the same time.
RAM has NO EXPERIENCE WITH THE POLICE! He has NEVER encountered them in action. Why don't we start to argue with virgins about what sex feels like while we're at it?
It's pointless, he has no information to back anything up, he just posts totally irrelevant shit from the FUCKING TRAINING MANUAL, for God's sakes... Do you think the Gestapo training manual said: "We are bad people. Your job is to be bad."
No, of course they are going to tell people they are doing a great job, the public is paying their salary after all. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to use the propaganda published by Police Departments as part of any argument.
I have refrained from mentioning this so far, as RAM is the king of dicksizing ("ooh you think this makes you better just because you're an expert?! look at this totally irrelevant coursework on different topics, it makes me better!!!", etc. etc., it's childish in the worst way).
At this point, however, I feel compelled to point out that fact that I have spent the past two years studying criminology as part of my soc. science degree at University at a third year level (long story, the only relevant courses open for the past few semesters). I have actually spent several months of my life pouring over statistics, reports, evaluations and documents from and about the Police (mainly UK, USA and Hong Kong case reports).
Let me tell you that 90% of everything they send out is laughable, there are whole books about reading around the statistical lies they routinely produce to serve their own needs.
A particularly blatant example was in the eighties in the UK where several departments co-operated in fixing crime statistics, they changed classifications of crimes to make it seem like there was a dramatic increase in certain types of crimes and a decrease in others, when in fact nothing had changed but their methods.
They then lobbied for increased financial support, based on the outcome of the statistics they themselves fixed openly. Only a couple of years later when this was looked at by some criminologists was it made public what had happened (I believe The Guardian ran a story on it at the time, I had some clippings from the period).
I could go on forever, the fact is that police are inherently corrupt as an instution. When I say corrupt, I don't mean just "taking bribes", I mean the culture of the police force as it exists today FUNDAMENTALLY NEGATES THE POSSIBILITY OF ACHIEVING THEIR STATED GOALS!!
While the criminological community differs wildly in it's attitude towards the police, it's mostly a question of what should be improved. There are few if any that would argue that the police, in their present incarnation, are an efficient institution. There are some VERY fundamental problems with the way they operate, and if you disagree that is your problem.
I'm sure evolutionary scientists don't stay up at night worrying about creationists, everyone has the right to be a closed minded idiot, and I must honour that right of yours RAM.
--- G.
Moskitto
24th June 2003, 16:43
DAY WARM-UP ACTIVITY 1 ACTIVITY 2 COOLING DOWN
Monday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Tuesday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip 5
minutes
Wednesday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Thursday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip
5 minutes
Friday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Saturday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip
5 minutes
Sunday REST REST
what a woosy training schedule
Monday: 1 hour Paddle - 20 mins free weights maintainance - 1 hour dumbells
Tuesday: 1 1/2 hour Paddle
Wednesday: 1 hour Paddle, 20 minutes circuit training, 1 1/2 hour aerobic/weights training
Thursday: 1 hour paddle
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 3 hour long paddle
Sunday: 2 hour paddle
Quote: from Moskitto on 4:43 pm on June 24, 2003
DAY WARM-UP ACTIVITY 1 ACTIVITY 2 COOLING DOWN
Monday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Tuesday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip 5
minutes
Wednesday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Thursday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip
5 minutes
Friday Endurance
20-40 minutes
Saturday Push-up/Reverse pull-up
10-15 minutes Grip
5 minutes
Sunday REST REST
what a woosy training schedule
Monday: 1 hour Paddle - 20 mins free weights maintainance - 1 hour dumbells
Tuesday: 1 1/2 hour Paddle
Wednesday: 1 hour Paddle, 20 minutes circuit training, 1 1/2 hour aerobic/weights training
Thursday: 1 hour paddle
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 3 hour long paddle
Sunday: 2 hour paddle
That traning that you quoted was only for the police fitnest test as part of inital recruitment and was suggested as a way to get fit not as a police traning schedule
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 4:21 pm on June 24, 2003
Of course they are an enemy of the working class, this thread is getting more and more ridiculous and losing it's novelty value at the same time.
RAM has NO EXPERIENCE WITH THE POLICE! He has NEVER encountered them in action. Why don't we start to argue with virgins about what sex feels like while we're at it?
It's pointless, he has no information to back anything up, he just posts totally irrelevant shit from the FUCKING TRAINING MANUAL, for God's sakes... Do you think the Gestapo training manual said: "We are bad people. Your job is to be bad."
No, of course they are going to tell people they are doing a great job, the public is paying their salary after all. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to use the propaganda published by Police Departments as part of any argument.
I have refrained from mentioning this so far, as RAM is the king of dicksizing ("ooh you think this makes you better just because you're an expert?! look at this totally irrelevant coursework on different topics, it makes me better!!!", etc. etc., it's childish in the worst way).
At this point, however, I feel compelled to point out that fact that I have spent the past two years studying criminology as part of my soc. science degree at University at a third year level (long story, the only relevant courses open for the past few semesters). I have actually spent several months of my life pouring over statistics, reports, evaluations and documents from and about the Police (mainly UK, USA and Hong Kong case reports).
Let me tell you that 90% of everything they send out is laughable, there are whole books about reading around the statistical lies they routinely produce to serve their own needs.
A particularly blatant example was in the eighties in the UK where several departments co-operated in fixing crime statistics, they changed classifications of crimes to make it seem like there was a dramatic increase in certain types of crimes and a decrease in others, when in fact nothing had changed but their methods.
They then lobbied for increased financial support, based on the outcome of the statistics they themselves fixed openly. Only a couple of years later when this was looked at by some criminologists was it made public what had happened (I believe The Guardian ran a story on it at the time, I had some clippings from the period).
I could go on forever, the fact is that police are inherently corrupt as an instution. When I say corrupt, I don't mean just "taking bribes", I mean the culture of the police force as it exists today FUNDAMENTALLY NEGATES THE POSSIBILITY OF ACHIEVING THEIR STATED GOALS!!
While the criminological community differs wildly in it's attitude towards the police, it's mostly a question of what should be improved. There are few if any that would argue that the police, in their present incarnation, are an efficient institution. There are some VERY fundamental problems with the way they operate, and if you disagree that is your problem.
I'm sure evolutionary scientists don't stay up at night worrying about creationists, everyone has the right to be a closed minded idiot, and I must honour that right of yours RAM.
--- G.
Statistic fidderling is not new and always goes on even if it is bad and it should not happen in fear of the goverment.
I am not a creationists and if I was what has that got to do with police? I am not narrow minded at all I can acept that the police are not perfect and that they have problems.
I have also never had any experince with the police as have never been in a situation where I would meet the police.
Dhul Fiqar
24th June 2003, 17:06
You don't even read my posts any more, this is getting more pointless by the minute.
I know you're not a bloody creationist, but you like them are ignoring the entire body of evidence and oppinions of the vast majority of all experts on the matter, to form an oppinion based on your personal feelings.
God did not create the world in seven days. Cops are not a benign force for good. We hold these truths to be self-evident, those that choose not to are no concern of ours.
We call ourselves: "Those in the know". And we base our oppinion on actual evidence of the track record of the police, not their own fucking training manuals!! Join us if you want to, stay a closed minded fool if you want.
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 5:06 pm on June 24, 2003
You don't even read my posts any more, this is getting more pointless by the minute.
I know you're not a bloody creationist, but you like them are ignoring the entire body of evidence and oppinions of the vast majority of all experts on the matter, to form an oppinion based on your personal feelings.
God did not create the world in seven days. Cops are not a benign force for good. We hold these truths to be self-evident, those that choose not to are no concern of ours.
We call ourselves: "Those in the know". And we base our oppinion on actual evidence of the track record of the police, not their own fucking training manuals!! Join us if you want to, stay a closed minded fool if you want.
--- G.
I posted the police recuritment details as they were the truth abot the police in the UK. I also liked the myth and fact part which showed how out of touch some members are with the police and the height and super fit myths that you belived and how far they were from the truth.
You need to also see that in some countires the Police is an extension of the goverment. E.g. the Police in Zimbabwe with Mugaba are an extnesion of his regime. Yes the police suck in Zimbabwe and what they do. Also in countries like China which is a one party state the police are much more brutal than the Police in the UK which has had run ins with the home office which proves that they are independent and are not an extension of the goverment.
Dhul Fiqar
24th June 2003, 17:29
The fact that the vast majority of everything I know about the police comes from British scholars, and that I read their work to study for a course on British police given by a British university seems to have been lost on you in my previous post. I have no knowledge of the police culture in Zimbabwe, but I don't doubt it's worse.
I'm also sure there is a lot more disease there, but that doesn't have much relevance for the way the NHS works in the UK.
You also seem to not understand what you did:
You quoted THE POLICE as saying that the bad things you hear about THE POLICE are not true. Do you really find it shocking that they would deny it? I mean, why would anyone deny something they have done, huh?
Open your eyes and read something other than their own bloody reports, and you might discover how outlandish their publications are. Go to the home page of the North Korean government, read what it says there, and tell me that gives an accurate message of what the regime is like.
It didn't change your mind about North Korea, did it? Why? BECAUSE THEY FUCKING WROTE IT!!! OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE THEMSELVES SOUND GOOD!!
I really hate allcaps, but I swear to Dog that if I see you quote the police about themselves one more time I am going to piss on your mother's cat and mail you my uncle's teeth.
--- G.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 5:29 pm on June 24, 2003
The fact that the vast majority of everything I know about the police comes from British scholars, and that I read their work to study for a course on British police given by a British university seems to have been lost on you in my previous post. I have no knowledge of the police culture in Zimbabwe, but I don't doubt it's worse.
I'm also sure there is a lot more disease there, but that doesn't have much relevance for the way the NHS works in the UK.
You also seem to not understand what you did:
You quoted THE POLICE as saying that the bad things you hear about THE POLICE are not true. Do you really find it shocking that they would deny it? I mean, why would anyone deny something they have done, huh?
Open your eyes and read something other than their own bloody reports, and you might discover how outlandish their publications are. Go to the home page of the North Korean government, read what it says there, and tell me that gives an accurate message of what the regime is like.
It didn't change your mind about North Korea, did it? Why? BECAUSE THEY FUCKING WROTE IT!!! OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE THEMSELVES SOUND GOOD!!
I really hate allcaps, but I swear to Dog that if I see you quote the police about themselves one more time I am going to piss on your mother's cat and mail you my uncle's teeth.
--- G.
When did I quote the Police as saying that they bad things about them are not true?
You will have to find out my adress to possibly post teeth to me
I never say that the Police are perfect. I know that they have mistakes and often that they are an extension of the goverment. Ok then the UK Police force has bad policemen then in a minority of cases.
I define good policing as doing what is good and supporting the public. I know that the police have not always done that and that all nations police forces are guility of that.
Rememeber last night how we agreed that the police should be a force for good?
(Edited by RAM at 5:48 pm on June 24, 2003)
Ok then what about the Stephen Lawrence report into the Met. That pointed out bad sides to the police. I acept that it was bad for the Police then. The met are racist and other police forces as well. Happy?
The Police made an error with the Policing with Prince Williams Birthday. When will you be happy? Until I have branded ALL police as racist, facist, homophobic, cruel and evil?
(Edited by RAM at 6:00 pm on June 24, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
24th June 2003, 18:13
I won't be happy untill the police stops functioning in the way it does, as an institute of oppression. And just so you understand why we are taking you apart, you are arguing the Reagan/Thatcher line. Right-realism, aka fascism, seems to be what you espouse.
Marxist criminology has ALWAYS accepted that the police are a tool of the capitalist classes, and that they are predominantly used as a means of social control over the powerless. This is central to understanding what the police is: A CLASS ENEMY! OUR ENEMY!
And here you are defending them. Of course some of them are nice people, most Nazis were perfectly nice people, they were just "doing their job". It's the exact same thing with the police.
Just because a particular cop isn't consciously killing babies doesn't mean he isn't helping to keep down the proletariate.
Consider this, why are police so obsessed with the crimes of the poor? Drug offenses, petty burglary, vandalism, stick-ups, car theft - all crimes committed by the poor (generally speaking). These receive the brunt of all popular hysteria, the brung of all police power and the majority of funding and resources.
The cops know it's their job to look out for that sort of thing and stop it.
However, it is not their job to look out for well dressed men that may be carrying illegal documents. "Excuse me sir, do you content to a search of your briefcase, I have reason to believe there is a man guilty of tax fraud in the building and you as a white male in a suit fit the profile."
Of course it's ridiculous, but it's no more ridiculous than stopping a black in Harlem because you're looking for an African american implicated in buying some crack earlier in the evening. One is a matter of millions or possibly billions of pounds diverted from the community by decidedly illegal means, the other is a kid putting poison in his own body of his own free will.
The police do not patrol the halls of corporations looking for people that fit the profile of a wealthy white man, but they do cruise through harlem looking for and harassing kids fitting the profile of a young coloured person.
Did you know that most corporate crimes aren't even handled by the police? If you were to call them and say you know your employer is illegally dumping toxic chemicals in Barbados and emptied the retirement fund of all it's employees to buy boats for the chief executives, they would tell you to talk to a fucking committee.
The committee would look at the matter, endless paperwork would ensue, and two or three people might get a few months in a country club.
At the same time certain minorities can't drive a nice car without being pulled over and having their license checked.
The police are serving the interestes of THE BOURGEOIS!! And by defending them, so are you. What in Marx's name are you doing on a leftist messageboard you brainwashed, reactionary fuckhead?
--- G.
Sabocat
24th June 2003, 18:22
There's a reason that the POLICE are called to put down a labor strike.
Because they're tools of the ruling class. How many times have you seen a cop protect a laborer from his employer? How many times have PIGS stopped scabs from crossing a picket line and entering a factory to take the jobs of the strikers?
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:13 pm on June 24, 2003
I won't be happy untill the police stops functioning in the way it does, as an institute of oppression. And just so you understand why we are taking you apart, you are arguing the Reagan/Thatcher line. Right-realism, aka fascism, seems to be what you espouse.
Marxist criminology has ALWAYS accepted that the police are a tool of the capitalist classes, and that they are predominantly used as a means of social control over the powerless. This is central to understanding what the police is: A CLASS ENEMY! OUR ENEMY!
And here you are defending them. Of course some of them are nice people, most Nazis were perfectly nice people, they were just "doing their job". It's the exact same thing with the police.
Just because a particular cop isn't consciously killing babies doesn't mean he isn't helping to keep down the proletariate.
Consider this, why are police so obsessed with the crimes of the poor? Drug offenses, petty burglary, vandalism, stick-ups, car theft - all crimes committed by the poor (generally speaking). These receive the brunt of all popular hysteria, the brung of all police power and the majority of funding and resources.
The cops know it's their job to look out for that sort of thing and stop it.
However, it is not their job to look out for well dressed men that may be carrying illegal documents. "Excuse me sir, do you content to a search of your briefcase, I have reason to believe there is a man guilty of tax fraud in the building and you as a white male in a suit fit the profile."
Of course it's ridiculous, but it's no more ridiculous than stopping a black in Harlem because you're looking for an African american implicated in buying some crack earlier in the evening. One is a matter of millions or possibly billions of pounds diverted from the community by decidedly illegal means, the other is a kid putting poison in his own body of his own free will.
The police do not patrol the halls of corporations looking for people that fit the profile of a wealthy white man, but they do cruise through harlem looking for and harassing kids fitting the profile of a young coloured person.
Did you know that most corporate crimes aren't even handled by the police? If you were to call them and say you know your employer is illegally dumping toxic chemicals in Barbados and emptied the retirement fund of all it's employees to buy boats for the chief executives, they would tell you to talk to a fucking committee.
The committee would look at the matter, endless paperwork would ensue, and two or three people might get a few months in a country club.
At the same time certain minorities can't drive a nice car without being pulled over and having their license checked.
The police are serving the interestes of THE BOURGEOIS!! And by defending them, so are you. What in Marx's name are you doing on a leftist messageboard you brainwashed, reactionary fuckhead?
--- G.
Arn't we all BOURGEOIS by posting on here? If we were your outdated idea of a working class then we may not be able to post on here.
Quote: from Disgustapated on 6:22 pm on June 24, 2003
There's a reason that the POLICE are called to put down a labor strike.
Because they're tools of the ruling class. How many times have you seen a cop protect a laborer from his employer? How many times have PIGS stopped scabs from crossing a picket line and entering a factory to take the jobs of the strikers?
Are called to what is some rare cases they are called to labour strikes but often to make sure that people don't become violent e.g. Huntington life sciences they were needed when people started attacking employers cars
The police are never there to take sides just to make sure that there is no trouble.
Dhul Fiqar
24th June 2003, 18:40
WTF is that supposed to mean? Just because Marx and Engels had money and could afford to sit around writing, they are automatically capitalists and part of the problem?
You really need to read up on what socialism is, I am starting to wonder how you even found your way here. Were you looking for t-shirts or what?
As for being outdated, the original conception certainly is. However, I am obbviously not using the term in the strictest sense. Either you are part of the problem or part of the solution, and you and the police are both part of the problem as any left-wing person defines it.
--- G.
Sabocat
24th June 2003, 18:59
Quote: from RAM on 1:40 pm on June 24, 2003
Quote: from Disgustapated on 6:22 pm on June 24, 2003
There's a reason that the POLICE are called to put down a labor strike.
Because they're tools of the ruling class. How many times have you seen a cop protect a laborer from his employer? How many times have PIGS stopped scabs from crossing a picket line and entering a factory to take the jobs of the strikers?
Are called to what is some rare cases they are called to labour strikes but often to make sure that people don't become violent e.g. Huntington life sciences they were needed when people started attacking employers cars
The police are never there to take sides just to make sure that there is no trouble.
No trouble for the corporations.
Why do you suppose the police were protecting the employers cars? What about the people trying to make a fair wage to have and maintain a car? Whose looking out for them?
So no matter what the employer does to the employee, the police are there to protect the employer right? Thanks for making my point for me.
Eastside Revolt
24th June 2003, 20:22
Someone ban this Facsist.
Dhul Fiqar
24th June 2003, 20:24
He was restricted for being a right-wing imperialist bastard, much like Stormin Norman and Dark Capitalist. He hasn't really done anything to make him worse than them, in fact he is such an embarassment to their cause that I have noticed a distinct lack of their participation in his threads.
We need a clown around here to remind us how ridiculous our opponents can be, and RAM is doing the job perfectly ;)
--- G.
p.s. that being said you are of course free to petition for a ban in CC like everyone else :)
Moskitto
24th June 2003, 21:22
Did you know that most corporate crimes aren't even handled by the police? If you were to call them and say you know your employer is illegally dumping toxic chemicals in Barbados and emptied the retirement fund of all it's employees to buy boats for the chief executives, they would tell you to talk to a fucking committee.
they'd actually tell you to talk to the environmental agency, just like if you told them you're employer was storing food incorrectly or exposing workers to toxic chemicals they'd tell you to talk to the department for environmental health. And rightly so, it's pretty pointless sending armed people after people who aren't actually very likely to shoot back at you, also I daubt a police officer has the training to bring someone to court for so called "white collar offenses." There's quite a lot of training required to bust someone for health and safety offenses. However sending a guy in a suit who's got a card which allows them to search any premises for vermin is pretty useless against someone with a gun.
redstar2000
24th June 2003, 21:22
Well, RAM, I see you're still at it in this thread...removing one foot from your mouth only to replace it with the other.
I understand that arguments about the working class make no sense to you; you probably think socialism refers to partying.
And I perfectly understand your preference for "pain compliance" to firearms: torture is more fun!
I think you are a perfect candidate for police work...the only guy I know who, sooner or later, will manage to trip over a cordless phone.
:cool:
Moskitto
24th June 2003, 21:25
No trouble for the corporations.
Why do you suppose the police were protecting the employers cars? What about the people trying to make a fair wage to have and maintain a car? Whose looking out for them?
So no matter what the employer does to the employee, the police are there to protect the employer right? Thanks for making my point for me.
RAM actually got this wrong, the anti-human (ok, "animal rights") campaigners were attacking employees cars (any employees from managers and accountants to janitors and lab technicians) and their families.
ÑóẊîöʼn
27th June 2003, 11:28
Is riot gear bullet proof? http://web2.gopostal.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://web2.gopostal.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/uzi.gif
In any kind of revolution or massive civilian disobediance, the police will be the first of many enemies in the fucked-up computer game that is life.
I'm tired of having to repeat this. you can't consider yourself a communist if you support the very institutions that get in your way.
(Edited by NoXion at 11:29 am on June 27, 2003)
Sabocat
27th June 2003, 11:50
Quote: from NoXion on 6:28 am on June 27, 2003
Is riot gear bullet proof? http://web2.gopostal.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://web2.gopostal.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/uzi.gif
In any kind of revolution or massive civilian disobediance, the police will be the first of many enemies in the fucked-up computer game that is life.
I'm tired of having to repeat this. you can't consider yourself a communist if you support the very institutions that get in your way.
(Edited by NoXion at 11:29 am on June 27, 2003)
I think there is very little that will stop 150 grains of lead travelling at close to 3000 feet per second in a .30.06 round....not that I'd know anything about that particular round, or that a Browning A Bolt II with the Boss accuracy device and a scope will shoot less than a 1 inch group at 200 yards easily....I'm just saying.....I think that gear will only stop relatively small arms fire. More like pistol and shotgun rounds.
ÑóẊîöʼn
27th June 2003, 12:06
Time to convert that hunting rifle to automatic then.... ooops!
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 6:40 pm on June 24, 2003
WTF is that supposed to mean? Just because Marx and Engels had money and could afford to sit around writing, they are automatically capitalists and part of the problem?
You really need to read up on what socialism is, I am starting to wonder how you even found your way here. Were you looking for t-shirts or what?
As for being outdated, the original conception certainly is. However, I am obbviously not using the term in the strictest sense. Either you are part of the problem or part of the solution, and you and the police are both part of the problem as any left-wing person defines it.
--- G.
No I do not want to buy a Che-Lives T Shirt or come here for that!
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 8:24 pm on June 24, 2003
He was restricted for being a right-wing imperialist bastard, much like Stormin Norman and Dark Capitalist. He hasn't really done anything to make him worse than them, in fact he is such an embarassment to their cause that I have noticed a distinct lack of their participation in his threads.
We need a clown around here to remind us how ridiculous our opponents can be, and RAM is doing the job perfectly ;)
--- G.
p.s. that being said you are of course free to petition for a ban in CC like everyone else :)
I do not have access to the CC
Quote: from redstar2000 on 9:22 pm on June 24, 2003
Well, RAM, I see you're still at it in this thread...removing one foot from your mouth only to replace it with the other.
I understand that arguments about the working class make no sense to you; you probably think socialism refers to partying.
And I perfectly understand your preference for "pain compliance" to firearms: torture is more fun!
I think you are a perfect candidate for police work...the only guy I know who, sooner or later, will manage to trip over a cordless phone.
:cool:
I do not think that socialism refers to partying
I would not tortue you just remove the threat to you and others by living you on the floor in handcuffs
I will not trip over a coradless phone and yes I am possible thinking of applying for the Police
(Edited by RAM at 6:09 pm on June 27, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
27th June 2003, 18:16
I know you don't have access. I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the socialists here ;)
--- G.
RedStar probably supports violence at May Day!
Question. Has RedStar2000 been to a Ma Day Protest and taken part in violence?
Some people probably think that in London 2001 May Day that removing a security camera from John Lewis will change the world! Interesting how they attacked a company where only the workers can have a share in how well the company does. Also people think that May Day attacks the big business when it does not because for the small business to board up and close the shop cots them a lot of money and to a big business it costs them nothing to do that. The violence is so petty and stupid. Also note that this year that there was not much on Che Lives about May Day probably because there was no major violence!
Did anyone end up in this in London in 2001?: -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1307173_oxfordcircus300.jpg
I did hear that some German tourists got caught up in it
I support the idea of May Day. What I do not support is idiots causing violence and trouble and having a fight with the police which they can't win and thinking that they can go anywhere when they cannot!
(Edited by RAM at 8:21 am on June 28, 2003)
redstar2000
28th June 2003, 08:40
RedStar probably supports violence at May Day!
RAM "probably" supports violence at Jerry Lewis film festivals.
Question. Has RedStar2000 been to a May Day Protest and taken part in violence?
If I had, would I be likely to inform a loud-mouthed idiot like yourself?
The violence is so petty and stupid.
Unlike police terror, which is both enormous and "intelligent".
Also note that this year that there was not much on Che Lives about May Day probably because there was no major violence!
Yes, RAM, the "mad dogs" of Che-Lives are only interested in violence...the whole board shows that in every post. If I don't put a brick through a capitalist window first thing in the morning, it spoils my appetite for breakfast.
I support the idea of May Day. What I do not support is idiots causing violence and trouble and having a fight with the police which they can't win...
You? Support May Day? Pull the other one; it's got bells on it!
You support the police and want to be one of them. You've already admitted that.
Have you changed your mind? What did you do with the diaper?
RAM, you are a living example of a lately-coined saying I heard: ignorance can be cured; stupid is forever.
:cool:
You hvae ignored my main points of my post so I will go over them again for you: -
Some people probably think that in London 2001 May Day that removing a security camera from John Lewis will change the world!
Interesting how they attacked a company where only the workers can have a share in how well the company does.
Also people think that May Day attacks the big business when it does not because for the small business to board up and close the shop cots them a lot of money and to a big business it costs them nothing to do that.
The violence is so petty and stupid.
Also note that this year that there was not much on Che Lives about May Day probably because there was no major violence!
Quote: from redstar2000 on 8:40 am on June 28, 2003
RedStar probably supports violence at May Day!
RAM "probably" supports violence at Jerry Lewis film festivals.
Question. Has RedStar2000 been to a May Day Protest and taken part in violence?
If I had, would I be likely to inform a loud-mouthed idiot like yourself?
The violence is so petty and stupid.
Unlike police terror, which is both enormous and "intelligent".
Also note that this year that there was not much on Che Lives about May Day probably because there was no major violence!
Yes, RAM, the "mad dogs" of Che-Lives are only interested in violence...the whole board shows that in every post. If I don't put a brick through a capitalist window first thing in the morning, it spoils my appetite for breakfast.
I support the idea of May Day. What I do not support is idiots causing violence and trouble and having a fight with the police which they can't win...
You? Support May Day? Pull the other one; it's got bells on it!
You support the police and want to be one of them. You've already admitted that.
Have you changed your mind? What did you do with the diaper?
RAM, you are a living example of a lately-coined saying I heard: ignorance can be cured; stupid is forever.
:cool:
I do not support any violence
I support the idea of May Day as a day in the year when you can protest about whatever you want. My view chnages when there is violence and I felt that 2003 May Day in London was good as there was only a few incidents of violence
Here are some more images of May Day 2001 in London to show how stupid the violences was and how good the policing was: -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1307173_riot_police150pa.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1307173_oxfordcircus150.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306475_pcvid150.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306475_kingscross150.jpg%20
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306262_motorbike.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306262_fluffy.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306262_police.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308091_lewis.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308091_arrest.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306786_newfire.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/730000/images/_733601_police150.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1307173_oxfordcircus300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1310000/images/_1310112_snapper_2_150.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308275_aapolice300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308391_contained300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308391_arrest_pa_150.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308391_contained.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306995_oxford150_pa.jpg
Oh look and some stupid violence that achives nothing and will never achive anything!: -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1306786_newkick.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308173_window.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308173_car.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308173_woman.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308173_road.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308173_glass.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308173_shop.300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1308275_aaglazier150.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1305000/images/_1307505_shopfront300.jpg
(Edited by RAM at 9:36 am on June 28, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 9:37 am on June 28, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 9:38 am on June 28, 2003)
(Edited by RAM at 9:39 am on June 28, 2003)
CubanFox
28th June 2003, 09:08
Yeah, the police rock.
http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/1980_02.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1955000/images/_1958496_king150.jpg
truthaddict11
28th June 2003, 13:16
yeah real friendly cops
http://www.internationalsocialists.org/seattle/seattle-032.jpg
http://www.internationalsocialists.org/seattle/bullets.jpg
http://www.internationalsocialists.org/seattle/n30-08.jpg
god bless the men in blue.
Moskitto
28th June 2003, 19:00
I will not trip over a coradless phone
It's actually impossible to trip over a phone cable,
to be able to walk you need to be able to apply 150% of your bodyweight as pressure onto your legs. unless the cable is attached to something, you are applying 120kg+ force to move an object weighing less than 2kg, the chance of tripping is miniscule.
Dhul Fiqar
28th June 2003, 19:33
lol, life is not a mathematical equation mate, at least not one as simple as that one.
There is such a thing as balance and center of gravity, and not all phones are secured to the wall in the same way. It is quite easy to trip over telephone cables given some fairly common circumstances and variables.
--- G.
Moskitto
28th June 2003, 20:11
ah but if the telephone cable is attached to the wall then it is "attached to something." If like me your telephone is just lying on a table your more likely to break the phone, also the positioning of my telephone means that if you did fall over it i would laugh at you very hard.
It is possible to trip over a cordless telephone, in theory if the communication waves could cause ionisation in the air then that could lead to electrostatic repulsion which would repel someone moving towards it, as the ionic bond is strong and unflexible then the subject would simply trip over the beam.
Dhul Fiqar
28th June 2003, 20:26
Why not just whip your dick out and measure it instead of all this effort to sound like a genius? ;)
You made a ridiculously unscientific statement in language that made it sound well thought through, something that is all too easy to do and I deal with on a daily basis on a certain other messageboard.
It is clearly more than possible to trip over a telephone cord, no amount of amino acids and pi calculations will change that fact, mate ;)
--- G.
Quote: from truthaddict11 on 1:16 pm on June 28, 2003
yeah real friendly cops
http://www.internationalsocialists.org/seattle/seattle-032.jpg
http://www.internationalsocialists.org/seattle/bullets.jpg
http://www.internationalsocialists.org/seattle/n30-08.jpg
god bless the men in blue.
I am grateful for them always!
Dhul Fiqar
28th June 2003, 20:36
You, my dear man, are an utter cad.
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 8:36 pm on June 28, 2003
You, my dear man, are an utter cad.
Cad??
Anonymous
28th June 2003, 20:52
From Merriam Webster's Online Collegiate Dictionary (http://www.m-w.com/)
Main Entry: cad
Pronunciation: 'kad
Function: noun
Etymology: English dialect, unskilled assistant, short for Scots caddie
Date: 1833
1 : an omnibus conductor
2 : a man who acts with deliberate disregard for another's feelings or rights
RAM, I had no idea you were an omnibus conductor. :shocked:
(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 8:52 pm on June 28, 2003)
Dhul Fiqar
28th June 2003, 20:54
LOL
People are doing it again only posting images of police in riots!
You probbaly like it when Police die in the line of duty!
Invader Zim
28th June 2003, 21:11
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 8:26 pm on June 28, 2003
Why not just whip your dick out and measure it instead of all this effort to sound like a genius? ;)
You made a ridiculously unscientific statement in language that made it sound well thought through, something that is all too easy to do and I deal with on a daily basis on a certain other messageboard.
It is clearly more than possible to trip over a telephone cord, no amount of amino acids and pi calculations will change that fact, mate ;)
--- G.
Excuse me have I missed something, why are you talking about penis size? Is it out of your own insecurity???(jk) :biggrin:
No seriously now, what the hell do phone cables have to do with anything at all?
Quote: from AK47 on 9:11 pm on June 28, 2003
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 8:26 pm on June 28, 2003
Why not just whip your dick out and measure it instead of all this effort to sound like a genius? ;)
You made a ridiculously unscientific statement in language that made it sound well thought through, something that is all too easy to do and I deal with on a daily basis on a certain other messageboard.
It is clearly more than possible to trip over a telephone cord, no amount of amino acids and pi calculations will change that fact, mate ;)
--- G.
Excuse me have I missed something, why are you talking about penis size? Is it out of your own insecurity???(jk) :biggrin:
No seriously now, what the hell do phone cables have to do with anything at all?
Dhul Fiqar could always have an extension if he wanted one!
Dhul Fiqar
28th June 2003, 21:19
I have no idea where the phonecable thing came from, but I'll explain the dick reference.
Where I come from there is a concept called "dicksizing". It basically means that you try to sound like a big man about something, usually by the way you word it rather than the substance of what you are saying.
If you'll do a search for Moskittos posts in the past few weeks, you will find an awful lot of ridiculous ideas disguised in laughably simplistic scientific terminology. The post above with the staggeringly twodimensional view of the phenomenon of "falling over a telephone wire" was a fine example so I could not resist commenting.
Two variables?? LOL
--- G.
Moskitto
28th June 2003, 21:27
Quote: from AK47 on 9:11 pm on June 28, 2003
Quote: from Dhul Fiqar on 8:26 pm on June 28, 2003
Why not just whip your dick out and measure it instead of all this effort to sound like a genius? ;)
You made a ridiculously unscientific statement in language that made it sound well thought through, something that is all too easy to do and I deal with on a daily basis on a certain other messageboard.
It is clearly more than possible to trip over a telephone cord, no amount of amino acids and pi calculations will change that fact, mate ;)
--- G.
Excuse me have I missed something, why are you talking about penis size? Is it out of your own insecurity???(jk) :biggrin:
No seriously now, what the hell do phone cables have to do with anything at all?
it does of course depend upon how your telephone is arranged, if the cord runs from the plug at one end of the office to the phone superguled onto the wall with clamps, then you are likely to trip over it.
if however your telephone is on the table with the cable taughtly attached to the wall with a clear straight run to the plug then your front foot would kick the cable knocking your phone off the table.
I am biologist however so i think telephones should be banned to stop these stupid physics discussion, however a penis size discussion is of far more biological intrigue.
Quote: from on 1:00 am on Jan. 1, 1970
Oh stop being Pedantic Dhul Fiqar!
ÑóẊîöʼn
28th June 2003, 22:28
You can only kill a cop once, but you can break his ribs many times.
redstar2000
28th June 2003, 23:32
You probbaly like it when Police die in the line of duty!
Well, that is my preference but I do try to be open-minded on the matter; i.e., death from natural causes or accident is perfectly acceptable.
I am grateful for them [the police] always!
I wonder: when blondes gather, do they tell RAM jokes?
:cool:
ÑóẊîöʼn
29th June 2003, 00:20
Quote: from redstar2000 on 11:32 pm on June 28, 2003
You probbaly like it when Police die in the line of duty!
Well, that is my preference but I do try to be open-minded on the matter; i.e., death from natural causes or accident is perfectly acceptable.
I am grateful for them [the police] always!
I wonder: when blondes gather, do they tell RAM jokes?
:cool:
Oh dear, I can't stop giggleing at this one.
:biggrin:
Quote: from redstar2000 on 11:32 pm on June 28, 2003
You probbaly like it when Police die in the line of duty!
Well, that is my preference but I do try to be open-minded on the matter; i.e., death from natural causes or accident is perfectly acceptable.
I am grateful for them [the police] always!
I wonder: when blondes gather, do they tell RAM jokes?
:cool:
You are SICK!
You just see a system am not a person RedStar! You may liike it when Iraq sopilders, or US Soliders die just doing there job!
Blackberry
29th June 2003, 07:21
Quote: from RAM on 7:12 am on June 29, 2003
Quote: from redstar2000 on 11:32 pm on June 28, 2003
You probbaly like it when Police die in the line of duty!
Well, that is my preference but I do try to be open-minded on the matter; i.e., death from natural causes or accident is perfectly acceptable.
I am grateful for them [the police] always!
I wonder: when blondes gather, do they tell RAM jokes?
:cool:
You are SICK!
You just see a system am not a person RedStar! You may liike it when Iraq sopilders, or US Soliders die just doing there job!
Doing their job of spreading imperialism, that is.
(Edited by Neutral Nation at 7:22 am on June 29, 2003)
Quote: from Neutral Nation on 7:21 am on June 29, 2003
Quote: from RAM on 7:12 am on June 29, 2003
Quote: from redstar2000 on 11:32 pm on June 28, 2003
You probbaly like it when Police die in the line of duty!
Well, that is my preference but I do try to be open-minded on the matter; i.e., death from natural causes or accident is perfectly acceptable.
I am grateful for them [the police] always!
I wonder: when blondes gather, do they tell RAM jokes?
:cool:
You are SICK!
You just see a system am not a person RedStar! You may liike it when Iraq sopilders, or US Soliders die just doing there job!
Doing their job of spreading imperialism, that is.
(Edited by Neutral Nation at 7:22 am on June 29, 2003)
Well then I guess that we should not get a job and be unemployed then to stop imperalism then!
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