Advanced or Civilized? - To all Those who call other culture

[Nobody]

Here in OI I have noticed several members call un or under-devolped nations uncivilized. What bothers me is the corralation between calling "primative" people uncilivized. Since when does being advanced equate civilized? I mean I know lots of Americans who lack all vestiages of being civil. Hell, I question if any of this techology makes us any more "civilizied" than Bushmen. I argue they are more civilized, in many regards, then we are, in the West. They have a more devolped social system, basically pure communism. They live in harmony with their surrondings, and often with other tribes, but not in all cases. Now look at us. We fight each other, whether it is our neighbor or an other country. We have devolped a ruling class. We lead high stress lives and relieve that stress by abusing drugs of various sorts, or violent escapist games/litureture. While I believe we are more advanced in a techical sense, we are less civilizied then many other "primative" cultures in a social sense. Please think twince before a appling the label uncivilized on other cultures, or make sure you are using it in the right context.

p.s. sorry for the rant, but now i feel much better.

Edit Grammer, spelling, purpose

(Edited by LevTrosky at 3:15 am on June 15, 2003)


(Edited by LevTrosky at 4:10 am on June 15, 2003)

[Pete]

"Civilized" is a eurocentric word. If it isn't a eurocentric word, it holds a lot of eurocentric connotatoins.

[Liberty Lover]

So you would call the massacre of one million Tutsi’s during the Rwandan genocide civilized?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 3:02 am on June 15, 2003
So you would call the massacre of one million Tutsi’s during the Rwandan genocide civilized?

LL, did you ever consider that there are more than one tribe in Africa? Pay attention boy! Did you see Comrade Lev make any specific claims about any specific tribe?

"No" is correct little one. Would you like a cookie before nap time? Perhaps a nice glass of warm milk and a binkey will do the trick. Does that sound nice little boy?

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 3:12 am on June 15, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

COMRADE RAF,

Wow! What a lame response.

I'm not really good with fools, but a friend who is wrote something down for me; Oh, yeah, "Fuck off." May you live a long life and be the butt of many jokes to come.

[Totalitarian]

Down with Civilisation!

Gorilla Warfare!

[Nobody]

Totalitarian, I just want people to stop misusing the word uncivilized. I'm not a Shaker (religious group that does believe in techology.) or anything. LL Comrade RAF made a good point, so this is were you take back what you said (which was ignorant), and say you're sorry.

[Umoja]

If you consider the murder of so many Tusis and Hutus uncivilized, then you can't say anyone is civilized. Look at all the Europeans who killed each other over racial violence? World War II ring a bell?

[Liberty Lover]

LevTrosky,

I refer to your latest discharge of plebeian verbiage in which, you have proven, once again, that there is no such thing as unutterable nonsense. I provided an example of why African lifestyle is considered by some to be uncivilised. Note also, what happened in Rwanda is a regular occurrence throughout the continent in question. From the Congo to the Sudan these savages are currently involving themselves in the arbitrary and deliberate killing of their fellow man.

Parenthetically, in future, kindly proofread your posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of this message board with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 3:39 am on June 15, 2003)

[Anonymous]

Culturally inferior is a better term than uncivilized. Civilization is defined by the existence of city-states (or just cities). Obviously Africa (in most places) is both uncivilized and culturally inferior. While Iran, for instance, is culturally inferior yet civilized.




(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 10:39 pm on June 14, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from Umoja on 3:35 am on June 15, 2003
If you consider the murder of so many Tusis and Hutus uncivilized, then you can't say anyone is civilized. Look at all the Europeans who killed each other over racial violence? World War II ring a bell?


I think the Holocaust was the epitome of savagery. Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide me with a quote were I have said anything otherwise.

[Nobody]

LL, I take it back, I guess I was being uncivilized.

[Totalitarian]

Quote: from LevTrosky on 3:26 am on June 15, 2003
Totalitarian, I just want people to stop misusing the word uncivilized. I'm not a Shaker (religious group that does believe in techology.) or anything. LL Comrade RAF made a good point, so this is were you take back what you said (which was ignorant), and say you're sorry.


No, i'm serious.

Cities are unnatural environments for humans. They add to alienation, disease and psychoses. We (the domesticated humans) are becoming victims of our technology.

Another reason is that "civilisation" and the associated prosperity leads to a lower birthrate. In many western countries as well as japan, the birthrate is below replacement levels which poses big problems for the future. Capitalists then take advantage this situation by bringing in foreign immigrants to exploit as cheap labour.

I advocate an agricultural, hemp-based economy.

[Totalitarian]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 3:37 am on June 15, 2003
While Iran, for instance, is culturally inferior yet civilized.

AHA...!! So this is the reason you want to bomb iran!

To eliminate their "cultural inferiority", eh?




(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 10:39 pm on June 14, 2003)
[/quote]

[tacoernie]

"No, i'm serious.

Cities are unnatural environments for humans. They add to alienation, disease and psychoses. We (the domesticated humans) are becoming victims of our technology. "


hear hear, cities are not nice places, you city folk all seem to be insane. a culture living way way beyond its means doesnt strike me as being particually advanced.
i can see cities are the centres of civilization, the universities, art galleries etc, but they are also the centres of crime, hate, and loneliness, the people are rarely smiling and distrust any stranger talking to them.
tom sawyer was on to a good thing

[187]

Civilized and uncivilized are subjective terms. Anyone who compares their own society to anothers to define them as uncivilised or inferior is foolish.


(Edited by 187 at 6:27 am on June 15, 2003)

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 3:36 am on June 15, 2003
LevTrosky,

I refer to your latest discharge of plebeian verbiage in which, you have proven, once again, that there is no such thing as unutterable nonsense. I provided an example of why African lifestyle is considered by some to be uncivilised. Note also, what happened in Rwanda is a regular occurrence throughout the continent in question. From the Congo to the Sudan these savages are currently involving themselves in the arbitrary and deliberate killing of their fellow man.

Parenthetically, in future, kindly proofread your posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of this message board with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 3:39 am on June 15, 2003)


I can't believe this tosser just said "plebeian verbiage".
I bet he has his on-line thesarus open at all time. No offense to my younger comrades but I think LL must be a adolescent.

[Liberty Lover]

RAF,

Simply because someone uses words you are unfamiliar with does not mean they required a dictionary or thesaurus to discover there meaning.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 7:19 am on June 15, 2003)

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 6:31 am on June 15, 2003
RAF,

Simply because someone uses words you are unfamiliar with does not mean they required a dictionary or thesaurus do discover there meaning.

Not buyin' it lad.

[Anonymous]

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 1:25 am on June 15, 2003

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 3:36 am on June 15, 2003
LevTrosky,

I refer to your latest discharge of plebeian verbiage in which, you have proven, once again, that there is no such thing as unutterable nonsense. I provided an example of why African lifestyle is considered by some to be uncivilised. Note also, what happened in Rwanda is a regular occurrence throughout the continent in question. From the Congo to the Sudan these savages are currently involving themselves in the arbitrary and deliberate killing of their fellow man.

Parenthetically, in future, kindly proofread your posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of this message board with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 3:39 am on June 15, 2003)


I can't believe this tosser just said "plebeian verbiage".
I bet he has his on-line thesarus open at all time. No offense to my younger comrades but I think LL must be a adolescent.


What a pathetic attack.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 7:45 am on June 15, 2003

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 1:25 am on June 15, 2003

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 3:36 am on June 15, 2003
LevTrosky,

I refer to your latest discharge of plebeian verbiage in which, you have proven, once again, that there is no such thing as unutterable nonsense. I provided an example of why African lifestyle is considered by some to be uncivilised. Note also, what happened in Rwanda is a regular occurrence throughout the continent in question. From the Congo to the Sudan these savages are currently involving themselves in the arbitrary and deliberate killing of their fellow man.

Parenthetically, in future, kindly proofread your posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of this message board with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 3:39 am on June 15, 2003)


I can't believe this tosser just said "plebeian verbiage".
I bet he has his on-line thesarus open at all time. No offense to my younger comrades but I think LL must be a adolescent.


What a pathetic attack.


Agreed. I could have done much better. I was busy making your hero littlebill look silly. Would you like a crack at the title son? I also enjoy making capitalist adolescents like your self feel so low they will hopefully do the world a favour and clip themselves.

[Anonymous]

Don't flatter yourself.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 8:12 am on June 15, 2003
Don't flatter yourself.

And DC goes down in the first! Oh boy he's not going to get up. This lad looks hurt.

I have not seen someone get beaten this quickly since that zany character Mike Tyson almost killed Micheal Sphinx in 91 seconds. Good try though boy. Ya gotta lotta heart kiddo!

[IHP]

The trend for abuse has continued here. Come, now lads, all this is unnecessary.

Liberty Lover my old foe. Where have you been? You haven't been around much. Long live Whitlam! ;)

--IHP

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 8:45 am on June 15, 2003

Liberty Lover my old foe. Where have you been? You haven't been around much. Long live Whitlam! ;)

--IHP

I’ve had a plethora of assignments do to. I’m not going to be back long either, with the trials coming up and all.

By the way, whom do you want to win the Labor leadership vote? Howard will win the general election with a senate majority either way so it doesn’t bother me too much.

[redstarshining]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 4:36 am on June 15, 2003
LevTrosky,

I refer to your latest discharge of plebeian verbiage in which, you have proven, once again, that there is no such thing as unutterable nonsense. I provided an example of why African lifestyle is considered by some to be uncivilised. Note also, what happened in Rwanda is a regular occurrence throughout the continent in question. From the Congo to the Sudan these savages are currently involving themselves in the arbitrary and deliberate killing of their fellow man.

Parenthetically, in future, kindly proofread your posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of this message board with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 3:39 am on June 15, 2003)



There is no such thing as an african lifestyle or culture, just compare the south african cultures to, let's say Maroccan or Tunisian culture. While there are certainly similarities among african lifestyles and a common heritage, I would still call it a pretty heterogenous conglomerate of _related_ cultures.

Anyway, I don't quite understand the reference to Sudan and Rwanda. Are you saying the more violence in a country against it's own people the less civilized is it's culture? I'm sure I just misunderstood you here ;)

Funny you mentioned Congo though, as the whole civil war down there is financed by daughter corporations of -western!- corporations such as Siemens. Congo has the biggest tantalite supply in the world. TA is necessary to produce semiconductors. Almost all radios, digital watches, computers ( even the one I'm typing on ), cellphones etc etc etc have semiconductors partly made of TA. Most of Europe's TA or Coltan, as the industry calls it, comes from Congo. Within the last 10 years prices for tantalite increased by more than 800%. Still a miner in Congo earns less than a dollar a day, workers are treated like slaves down there. Without such a cheap production hightech products would be unaffordable in a free market environment of the 1st world.
This example is typical of capitalist production, Germany for example has only 30% domestic Industry. The reason is that most of the secondary sector produces overseas in third world countries. We live off the wealth of the third world. So, WHO is the root cause of the continuous civil war and the devastating economic situation in Congo?

[IHP]

LL, I know what that can be like.

Howard will win no doubt. As for Labor, I don't think either of them have what it takes.

I suppose I'm in two minds: One Big Kimbo had his chances and blew with his reactionary policy. So stay out of it. Second: Simon the (un)likeable is just such a boring old sod, he's so far removed from anything slightly charismatic.

To be honest I think it should be neither of them. Perhaps Tanner or Latham, though I haven't looked enough into their politics to make any decisions as yet. I'll get back to you.

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 9:31 am on June 15, 2003)

[CruelVerdad]

It all depends in what you think is civilization, maybe wearing clothes, or having a car, trying to earn money?

Or maybe being in touch with nature, knowing a lot of things (reading)?

[apathy maybe]

Really I think that the Australia system needs compleate reform. Proporitional representation in the lower house (Hare-Clark anyone?) based on population (with movable borders) scrap the states replacing the senete with a similar body but on equal area rather then the present. And lots of other things.

As to civilisation I think that the Australian Aboriginals (having had more then 40 000 years to get it right) had a pretty good system. And I would rather live in that system then some of the systems around today.

[Palmares]

In regards to Aussie politrix, Crean unfortunately won, and has now guaranteed Howard another term in office. Four straight conservative victories... should I even bother voting?

Back on to the Thread subject, I believe in relativism. Perhaps it can be said some things are better or more logical than others, but not wrong.