Patriotism - what it means to you [Archive]

Bianconero

13th June 2003, 17:59

Patriotism is, for me, a method of the ruling class to brainwash the workers so that they don't realize their class interests.

Basically, patriots claim that patriotism is based on love for your country and on respect for other nations. However, I ask when does one become a nationalist (no respect for other nations) then? Seing the United States, they claim to be patriots, yet a lot of these so - called "patriots" are racists lacking respect for other nations.

Coming back to marxism and patriotism. Marxists, in my oppinion, can only be loyal to their class, to the workers, to those exploited by the capitalist class. However, I see patriotism as a valid mean for socialist countries like Cuba ("Patria o muerte" ) to fight imperialist - capitalist attacks.

Conclusion: patriotism as such is reactionary, whereas it can be usefull to defend socialism too.

(Edited by Bianconero at 6:03 pm on June 13, 2003)

Nobody

13th June 2003, 18:00

Well said Bianconero, I totally agree with you.

Sensitive

13th June 2003, 18:01

If you want to feel patriotic, just look at my avatar. :biggrin:

rumblefish86

14th June 2003, 01:52

Nobody chooses the country of their birth, so to be patriotic is stupid. Patriotism is just another form of class divide

Vinny Rafarino

14th June 2003, 04:24

Patriotism is the conservative word for nationalism...same useless ideal and very dangerous.

Kapitan Andrey

14th June 2003, 04:48

Bianconero...Patriotism is, for me, a method of the ruling class to brainwash the workers so that they don't realize their class interests.
...half-true...

Real patriotism is when you leave normal or poor and someone (foreign) is trying to make you VERY poor or kill you...when you got nothing to loose, when behind your back is your capital, parents, wife, children...WHEN WHOLE NATION FIGHTING BACK TO BACK WITH YOU!!!...

Yes, this is it!

anti machine

14th June 2003, 05:03

oh Andrey...please post more often. Please. You bring a smile to my face.

I consider American patriotism to be nothing more than loyalism. It really should be referred to as such. There is hardly a difference between the loyalists of late-18th century and the "patriots" today. THe "true" patriots were those such as Abbie Hoffman, who proclaimed that he loved his country and would even fight for it, but not launch an offensive war waged by the bourgeoisie and fought by the lower classes.

Is there any merit to the expression Love my country but fear my government? I think RAF hit it on the nose. Patriotism is nationalism, a superiority of one country and peoples over another. It's sectarianism of mankind, dividing humanity into factions which are an ultimate hindrance to any sort of global, egalitarian state.

Som

14th June 2003, 05:12

As always, countries are silly.

Such arbitrary concepts really, nothing but little lines marking where one government begins and the other ends.

I get bored of the silly lines governments draw.

(Edited by Som at 2:28 am on June 27, 2003)

Hampton

14th June 2003, 05:13

"It is the duty of every patriot to protect his country from his government." - Thomas Payne

Anonymous

14th June 2003, 05:19

Quote: from rumblefish86 on 8:52 pm on June 13, 2003
Nobody chooses the country of their birth, so to be patriotic is stupid. Patriotism is just another form of class divide

What does that have to do with it? Sure, I was born in this country by a matter of chance, and I consider myself lucky in that respect. But by know means should it prevent me from feeling pride in the accomplishments of my ancestors and fellow countrymen through these last centuries. I take pride in my country's government, I pay taxes to support it, and, when old enough, will participate in it through voting. If I didn't like this country I'd move.

I guess you could say we're dealing with a different level of pride and love here. Something that has more to do with culture and bloodlines then anything else.

Kapitan Andrey

14th June 2003, 05:27

Hampton...Ha-ha!!! Well said!!! :biggrin:

El Brujo

15th June 2003, 01:53

Don't feel like going through this sermon right now so Ill just quote one of my posts from ISF:

"People must understand that things are not black and white concerning issues of national identity and that we believe proper revolutionism is neither ultra-nationalist (NS, yaknee "patriotism", etc.) nor ultra-internationalist (ultra-left Trotskyist revisionism). We are nationalists in the sense that we want to fight imperialism to preserve national self-determination but we don't believe we are racially/culturally "superior" to other people nor do we disrespect other peoples national self-determination the way fascists and imperialist "nationalists" do. In the same way, we are internationalists in the sense that we want to help other exploited peoples achieve socialism but we don't believe class is the only unifying factor, nor deny the existance of the labor aristocracy in the U$, the way revisionists do. The common goal of all exploited people of the world is to establish socialism but each ethnicity/nationality/culture has their own diverse experiences and will create and react to revolutions in different way's."

And here's one from Nateddi and Mao that makes sense:

"QUOTE (nateddi @ Jun 7 2003, 06:38 PM)
People must move away from a dogmatic liberal's definition of nationalism and adopt a more flexible one that does not group leftist ideas such as national liberation and self-determination with rightist ideas of a master race and hyper-patriotism. I am a Russian nationalist and pan-Latin Americanist as well as a staunch leftist.

de Gaulle made a distinction between people's different concepts of patriotism. He said that some are patriotic because they want the best for those who live in their country and that they have a respect for their own nationanhood and independence and that of other nations and their own cultures. But there are those that think their culture is superior to all other culture and have no respect for the nationhood of other countries.

You may call this bourgeois patriotism perhaps. An idea that is one of the foundations for imperialism.

True patriots are those that wish to build their own society into one that is strong and can give all its people good standards of living. Patriotism that respects the right of other countries to their independance. Patriotism is integral when revolutions start on national levels, One must understand the circumstances of ones own country and want which is best for thier people and not let a bigger power exploit them for their individual gain."

Ghost

17th June 2003, 20:02

What's wrong with patriotism. It is just the way in which people can feel, for lack of a better word, proud of their home nation.

For those of you who say you don't believe in patriotism, you're saying you'll just stand by and let some evil dictator try and sieze control of your country? If this dictator was in another country, you don't care as much, but if it was in your own, I'm sure you'll soon have something to say about it.

Unrelenting Steve

17th June 2003, 20:26

Patrotism, because of its huge base in emotion not fact, it can cloud what is actualy going on, patriotism can make poeple overlook and delude themselves when their country does something dispicable. No we didnt kill any civilians, America is all about truth and Liberty!.

"For those of you who say you don't believe in patriotism, you're saying you'll just stand by and let some evil dictator try and sieze control of your country? If this dictator was in another country, you don't care as much, but if it was in your own, I'm sure you'll soon have something to say about it."
----What the hell? How can you link patriotism with not being able to see what your countries doing wrong other than how I just described it???? U really are indoctranated. Patriotism and caring about whats happening in your country are two things which are very hard to link logicaly as a genreal rule, which is what you have done, which is utterly absurd.

Ghost

17th June 2003, 20:41

Patriotism is wanting to stand up for your country in some way against something wrong or invasion. You are only not patriotic if you don't care about what happens to your country as a nation.

Unrelenting Steve

17th June 2003, 20:50

Patriotism: Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
synonym: Nationalism
1.Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
2.The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other
3.The aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination
4.The doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals

Where in there is standing against what is wrong?
Did Bush teach you english?

(Edited by Unrelenting Steve at 7:55 pm on June 17, 2003)

Ghost

17th June 2003, 20:58

You're missing the point. I don't think I'm explaining it very well though. I know what I mean, I just can't put it into words vey well.

Nationalism and patriotism are very close though.

Unrelenting Steve

17th June 2003, 21:07

Go to the what the world thinks about America topic.
because you dont have a case here.

Sinistra

23rd June 2003, 23:38

i cant see what is the problem with patriotism . a normal man will always have love for his family . the same love he will have fore his trybe , and for his country .

Anonymous

24th June 2003, 00:03

Quote: from Unrelenting Steve on 4:07 pm on June 17, 2003
Go to the what the world thinks about America topic.
because you dont have a case here.

He's English.

Zombie

24th June 2003, 00:20

Quote: from Sinistra on 11:38 pm on June 23, 2003
i cant see what is the problem with patriotism . a normal man will always have love for his family . the same love he will have fore his trybe , and for his country .

depends what you mean by country.
is it the population? culture? or government?

Anonymous

24th June 2003, 02:02

Why? Was this motive good? Or was it just to give someone the finger? Does giving someone the finger serve some high purpose? What purpose does this serve:

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bon...nie2f2frjs.html (http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bonnie2f2frjs.html)

"So far, there's been no arrest. But there is a queasy link to what happened to that red Cavalier.

For the very night it was vandalized, another resident in the same Sam Hughes Neighborhood was struck by thieves.

Sometime during the night of May 27, Betty McKasson's flag was stolen from her front porch.

You may have read the story in this space a week ago. The flag once draped the casket of Betty's husband. And no other flag will do, especially for Betty's son, Steven, who lost his father when he was but 3 years old. "

Vinny Rafarino

24th June 2003, 02:50

I cannot believe you bothered to post this drivel on a message board BoyKelvin90210. People are vandalised every day. Houses are burglerised, women and children are raped, people are murdered. Who cares if some broad's flag was stolen. These kids should have burned this useless symbol of oppression right on her front lawn and at the same time also set aflame that silly car.

anti machine

24th June 2003, 02:55

amen RAF

Anonymous

24th June 2003, 03:04

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 9:50 pm on June 23, 2003
I cannot believe you bothered to post this drivel on a message board BoyKelvin90210. People are vandalised every day. Houses are burglerised, women and children are raped, people are murdered. Who cares if some broad's flag was stolen. These kids should have burned this useless symbol of oppression right on her front lawn and at the same time also set aflame that silly car.

You make me fucking sick.

Anonymous

24th June 2003, 03:09

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 2:50 am on June 24, 2003
I cannot believe you bothered to post this drivel on a message board BoyKelvin90210. People are vandalised every day. Houses are burglerised, women and children are raped, people are murdered. Who cares if some broad's flag was stolen. These kids should have burned this useless symbol of oppression right on her front lawn and at the same time also set aflame that silly car.

I am sure the kids taught the grief stricken widow a lesson.

What the hell? How about sending the widow to prison for being a subversive? That should teach her. Nah prison is too good for her, how about beaten into submission until she renounces nationalism.

I am sure making the widow grief is all in her best interest.

Good post comrades.

Anonymous

24th June 2003, 03:13

Why so bitter? Even for a widow.

RAF if you went back to school and earned a usefull degree then maybe you can start to make some real money and not be so bitter.

Last time I checked a PhD in Poly Sci makes about as much as a B.S. in Engineering, you really have got nothing to loose.

Kapitan Andrey

24th June 2003, 03:54

RAF!!! WTF!? This events happening in EVERY country...so what do you suppose to do!?

Vinny Rafarino

24th June 2003, 19:49

I'm not too concerned about money mate. I have everything I need. I am back in school son. Or did you forget already? On a side not, it's pretty much common knowledge here that Kelvin90210 is not to bright. Engineering eh? I would not allow you to engineer my dick from my jeans much less anything important.

Andrey. Stop babbling.

Do about what? The rapes and murdereds or flag and car burning?

Sabocat

24th June 2003, 21:06

Quote: from kelvin9 on 9:02 pm on June 23, 2003
Why? Was this motive good? Or was it just to give someone the finger? Does giving someone the finger serve some high purpose? What purpose does this serve:

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bon...nie2f2frjs.html (http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bonnie2f2frjs.html)

"So far, there's been no arrest. But there is a queasy link to what happened to that red Cavalier.

For the very night it was vandalized, another resident in the same Sam Hughes Neighborhood was struck by thieves.

Sometime during the night of May 27, Betty McKasson's flag was stolen from her front porch.

You may have read the story in this space a week ago. The flag once draped the casket of Betty's husband. And no other flag will do, especially for Betty's son, Steven, who lost his father when he was but 3 years old. "

The only thing that sucks about that story is that I didn't do it.

apathy maybe

27th June 2003, 01:51

George Orwell was a patriot, his patriotism was for the people of England, he wanted an English Socialism.

Me I think that patriotism is silly.

Palmares

27th June 2003, 02:02

Quote: from apathy maybe on 11:51 am on June 27, 2003

Me I think that patriotism is silly.

Couldn't agree more. To me, patriotism IS nationalism.

Kapitan Andrey

27th June 2003, 02:18

RAF, you are kiddling...rapeings and murders are everywhere!

kelvin

27th June 2003, 02:43

Quote: from Disgustapated on 9:06 pm on June 24, 2003

Quote: from kelvin9 on 9:02 pm on June 23, 2003
Why? Was this motive good? Or was it just to give someone the finger? Does giving someone the finger serve some high purpose? What purpose does this serve:

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bon...nie2f2frjs.html (http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bonnie2f2frjs.html)

"So far, there's been no arrest. But there is a queasy link to what happened to that red Cavalier.

For the very night it was vandalized, another resident in the same Sam Hughes Neighborhood was struck by thieves.

Sometime during the night of May 27, Betty McKasson's flag was stolen from her front porch.

You may have read the story in this space a week ago. The flag once draped the casket of Betty's husband. And no other flag will do, especially for Betty's son, Steven, who lost his father when he was but 3 years old. "

The only thing that sucks about that story is that I didn't do it.

Communist up and down claim to have the moral high ground over capitalist, from your attitude, I am sure you do not.

Ex Nihilo

27th June 2003, 02:46

You guys do know there is such a thing as good nationalism, don't you?

(Edited by Ex Nihilo at 2:47 am on June 27, 2003)

kelvin

27th June 2003, 03:03

Sure I do. What was good about making a widow grief?

Palmares

27th June 2003, 03:16

Quote: from Ex Nihilo on 12:46 pm on June 27, 2003
You guys do know there is such a thing as good nationalism, don't you?

(Edited by Ex Nihilo at 2:47 am on June 27, 2003)

What? Imperialism? Social Nationalism (the correct ideology of Nazism)?

You got me.

Please alobarate.

Ex Nihilo

27th June 2003, 03:21

Quote: from kelvin on 3:03 am on June 27, 2003
Sure I do. What was good about making a widow grief?

Nothing. I was addressing the communists that were talking about the differences between patriotism and nationalism.

-- Dark Capitalist

Sabocat

27th June 2003, 12:32

Quote: from kelvin on 9:43 pm on June 26, 2003

Quote: from Disgustapated on 9:06 pm on June 24, 2003

Quote: from kelvin9 on 9:02 pm on June 23, 2003
Why? Was this motive good? Or was it just to give someone the finger? Does giving someone the finger serve some high purpose? What purpose does this serve:

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bon...nie2f2frjs.html (http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bonnie2f2frjs.html)

"So far, there's been no arrest. But there is a queasy link to what happened to that red Cavalier.

For the very night it was vandalized, another resident in the same Sam Hughes Neighborhood was struck by thieves.

Sometime during the night of May 27, Betty McKasson's flag was stolen from her front porch.

You may have read the story in this space a week ago. The flag once draped the casket of Betty's husband. And no other flag will do, especially for Betty's son, Steven, who lost his father when he was but 3 years old. "

The only thing that sucks about that story is that I didn't do it.

Communist up and down claim to have the moral high ground over capitalist, from your attitude, I am sure you do not.

Spare me from your Rush Limbaugh logic.

My compassion is for people that aren't blinded by a fad induced patriotism. I'm assuming that by having her cavalier decorated like a flag, she supports the "endless war and war on terror" and all the rest of the jingoistic nonsense bullshit. If this ***** lived in Germany in the 40's she would have been waving a red flag with a swastika too. Obviously not a "free thinker".

kelvin

27th June 2003, 15:04

Quote: from Disgustapated on 12:32 pm on June 27, 2003

Quote: from kelvin on 9:43 pm on June 26, 2003

Quote: from Disgustapated on 9:06 pm on June 24, 2003

Quote: from kelvin9 on 9:02 pm on June 23, 2003
Why? Was this motive good? Or was it just to give someone the finger? Does giving someone the finger serve some high purpose? What purpose does this serve:

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bon...nie2f2frjs.html (http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30618bonnie2f2frjs.html)

"So far, there's been no arrest. But there is a queasy link to what happened to that red Cavalier.

For the very night it was vandalized, another resident in the same Sam Hughes Neighborhood was struck by thieves.

Sometime during the night of May 27, Betty McKasson's flag was stolen from her front porch.

You may have read the story in this space a week ago. The flag once draped the casket of Betty's husband. And no other flag will do, especially for Betty's son, Steven, who lost his father when he was but 3 years old. "

The only thing that sucks about that story is that I didn't do it.

Communist up and down claim to have the moral high ground over capitalist, from your attitude, I am sure you do not.

Spare me from your Rush Limbaugh logic.

My compassion is for people that aren't blinded by a fad induced patriotism. I'm assuming that by having her cavalier decorated like a flag, she supports the "endless war and war on terror" and all the rest of the jingoistic nonsense bullshit. If this ***** lived in Germany in the 40's she would have been waving a red flag with a swastika too. Obviously not a "free thinker".

She does not own a cavalier decorated flag. From your attitidue you have no compasion at all. How ever you measure the act of stealling the flag that draped her husbands coffin, nothing good was achived.

No one was educated by the act.
The anti-fad-patriotism cause was not advanced.
The widow did not renouce nationalism.
Intelligent people not blinded did not win more converts.

The widow waving the swistika if she lived in Germany? Your guessing.

Sabocat

27th June 2003, 15:21

I was speaking of the vandalising of the flag decorated cavalier that also appeared in the article.

As far as the flag that was stolen goes, if she was so damned attached to it, why was she flying it? And you're right, I can't rationalize attachment to a piece of cloth...sorry.

Sometimes a protest act isn't understood by all people. That's their problem.

I don't care if she was converted. She knows that there are people out there that disagree with her display of blind patriotism. (speaking of the car here....before you go off on a right wing tangent)

Of course I'm guessing about the flag and swastika. How could I possibly do otherwise on that subject. Unless you can confirm reincarnation and we have a time machine to go back and look for her.

Thank you oh master of the obvious.

dopediana

27th June 2003, 15:38

people learn to have a natural affinity for where they grew up. that's why american patriotism is so widespread. when you're white, you walk around the suburbs, you see happy families with their minivans and 2.5 children and 1.4 dogs and you think "gee, isn't america great? the land of opportunity!" if you're a minority, you get grants and scholarships from the government or you sit at home all day watching mtv or jerry springer and trying to emulate other people. in either situation, americans are totally constricted. they absorb "news" from CNN and FOX and just because those stations say so, all other news is suddenly irreputable and biased. stories of tragedy and heroism from 9/11 are prevalent in americans' minds because it's the first real brush with a huge national tragedy that they've ever had.
they don't consider the streets of kabul which have lain in ruins for years. they don't consider starving children in africa. they don't consider people living in trashbag tents in the favelas of rio.
they bask in the glory of america and think "we're lucky shits that we don't have all that going on. we're great. let's just call all the shots." and one guy in my history class who i nearly strangled said "we're america. this is our chance. it's our time to shine. we can act unilaterally. we know what we're doing is right."
glory. what does he know about it? HE FUCKING QUIT ROTC BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO MAKE HIM SHAVE HIS FUCKING SIDEBURNS! that's not patriotism. americans are not patriots. americans are nationalists.

i think we need some of the wisdom of the fabulous samuel clemens.

"You see my kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions, or its office holders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing, the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect the body from winter, disease, and death. To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags--this is loyalty to unreason, it is pure animal; it belongs to monarchy, was invented by monarchy; let monarchy keep it."

"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world--and never will."
- "Consistency" speech, essay

- A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

Vinny Rafarino

27th June 2003, 20:21

Good points Amaryllis. However...Nationalis...Partriot...It's all the same garbage. We all know what the yanquees are up to. You can fucking smell the disease from miles away.

Back to Kelvin90210. You just don't get it do you ya dim witted bastard? We don't give a fuck about some silly yanquee's flag. I don't care if it was used to wipe the shite from Comrade Lenis arsehole, it's still a symbol of oppression that must be destoyed. Stick it out and I'm gonna cut it off you silly little boy!

Whine like a fucking 3 year old toddler lost in a department store all you want. We don't care son. I even would not mind seeing YOU doused in some fucking gasoline and set ablaze! So quite simply 90210 go fuck yourself, 'cos your archaic nationalism gets you nowhere here.

Sabocat

27th June 2003, 20:24

"We don't care son. I even would not mind seeing YOU doused in some fucking gasoline and set ablaze! "

Mmmmmm....cappie bonfire.

dopediana

27th June 2003, 20:44

90210....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! do you live in beverly hills? or do you just watch the tv show starring tori spelling who looks like a fricking dead FROG?

i'll confess, i watched it when i was in middleschool, before i got smart.

Vinny Rafarino

27th June 2003, 22:17

BoyKelvin90210 is a huge fan of this decadent piece of shite. He even spouted other postal codes in Beverly Hills that are "far superior" to 90210 a while back. I'm sure he has the whole series on video tape. I'm sure he was devestated when the peach pit burned down.

BoyKelvin90210...Always good for a laugh.

EDIT:

Oi Kelvin90210...Has that dance instructor bird of yours figured you out yet and dropped for a socialist? Or is she still using you for your money.

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 10:20 pm on June 27, 2003)

kelvin

28th June 2003, 16:23

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 8:21 pm on June 27, 2003
Good points Amaryllis. However...Nationalis...Partriot...It's all the same garbage. We all know what the yanquees are up to. You can fucking smell the disease from miles away.

Back to Kelvin90210. You just don't get it do you ya dim witted bastard? We don't give a fuck about some silly yanquee's flag.
Whine like a fucking 3 year old toddler lost in a department store all you want. We don't care son. I even would not mind seeing YOU doused in some fucking gasoline and set ablaze! So quite simply 90210 go fuck yourself, 'cos your archaic nationalism gets you nowhere here.

Although I do not take you seriously, there are legal and moral implications of threating to use violence. The public act of anouncing to use violence and commit physical harm can have deep legal ramifications in any country.

Anyhow you'll never get past the guards at my gate. After having to carry automatic weapons for protection against communist I have learned to sleep with one eye open and have body armour and firearms nearby. I sleep very well, but I can be armed in less than one second, and covered in body armour in less than 10. If I'm awake, unless you cowardly stab me in the back, you'll never even get close.

Communist claim to have the moral superiority over capitalist. I am sure from the attitude of all your posts here you folks have none.

I suggest you retract your statements and save them to a file on your computer for future protection from criminal prosecution.

Good post commrade.

The Feral Underclass

28th June 2003, 16:38

What is the difference between a pot of yoghurt and the United States of America?

If you leave a pot of yoghurt on its own, it will develop a culture :)

Calmed down after your fits of hysterics....good!

What does it mean to be patriotic? To love ones counry? What is there to love about my country? People say, "be proud of your heritage and your history."

Apparently, slave trading, colonialisation, imperialism, exploitation and murder are all things that I am supposed to be proud off. I dont think so! And actually, if you look at your any of the western countries, they all have the same histories. There is nothing about the heritage of nations that is worthy of pride.

The question of US patriotism is a little more complecated than simple love of the country. It comes down to a mentality, that somehow America is percieved to be the biggest powerfullest country in the world...which it is of course. Read 'Why do people hate America.' It is objective, most of the time, though it does tend to be a little bias to the anti-american argument. However it does pose some interesting questions about US culture (or lack off) and how the US government acts towards and in the rest of the world. Very interesting indeed.

On a revolutionary level, when you come down to it, there is no difference between working class people. We are all oppressed exactly the same. Nations are irrelevant, and in my oppinon a revolution can not be isolated to one country, therefore when an international revolution happens, nations will cease to exist.

Vinny Rafarino

28th June 2003, 16:48

Although I do not take you seriously, there are legal and moral implications of threating to use violence. The public act of anouncing to use violence and commit physical harm can have deep legal ramifications in any country.

Anyhow you'll never get past the guards at my gate. After having to carry automatic weapons for protection against communist I have learned to sleep with one eye open and have body armour and firearms nearby. I sleep very well, but I can be armed in less than one second, and covered in body armour in less than 10. If I'm awake, unless you cowardly stab me in the back, you'll never even get close.

Communist claim to have the moral superiority over capitalist. I am sure from the attitude of all your posts here you folks have none.

I suggest you retract your statements and save them to a file on your computer for future protection from criminal prosecution.

Good post commrade.

I've got a better idea. In place of dousing you with petrol and making a fucking torch out you KKKelvin, how about I pop over and give you the great equaliser. Two shots to the back of the head toughguy. You in no way intimidate me son.

File that KKKelvin.

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 4:51 pm on June 28, 2003)

The Feral Underclass

28th June 2003, 17:56

Every time I read one of Comrade RAF's posts all I manage to get is "blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah."

Does anyone else have that?

dopediana

28th June 2003, 18:18

for fuck's sake, stick by your comrades, LC. we have too much mudslinging in here as it is. and RAF mudslings enough for the both of you. :) (love you, raf)

The Feral Underclass

28th June 2003, 18:41

kelvin

28th June 2003, 20:22

kelvin

28th June 2003, 20:41

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 4:48 pm on June 28, 2003

Although I do not take you seriously, there are legal and moral implications of threating to use violence. The public act of anouncing to use violence and commit physical harm can have deep legal ramifications in any country.

Anyhow you'll never get past the guards at my gate. After having to carry automatic weapons for protection against communist I have learned to sleep with one eye open and have body armour and firearms nearby. I sleep very well, but I can be armed in less than one second, and covered in body armour in less than 10. If I'm awake, unless you cowardly stab me in the back, you'll never even get close.

Communist claim to have the moral superiority over capitalist. I am sure from the attitude of all your posts here you folks have none.

I suggest you retract your statements and save them to a file on your computer for future protection from criminal prosecution.

Good post commrade.

I've got a better idea. In place of dousing you with petrol and making a fucking torch out you KKKelvin, how about I pop over and give you the great equaliser. Two shots to the back of the head toughguy. You in no way intimidate me son.

File that KKKelvin.

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 4:51 pm on June 28, 2003)

I am sorry. I mean absoutley no threat or intimidation. I am pretty sure any of my post never implied any threat or intimidation.

Unless your a paramilitary or special forces you'll have very little luck. I typically rank top 1% for police pistol qualifications. Not that I am any good, but civilian police are very poor close quarters combat shooters, and very rarely train. A typically officer will maybe discharge 100 rounds a year for training and qualification. I on the other hand train regularly for fun, typical rounds down range are 200 for rifle and 200 for pistol. I suggest before you handle any firearms for combat purposes, seek instruction, otherwise you are more dangerous to yourself. Plus holding a can of petrol and discharging a firearm is extremely dangerous. Fumes from the container can ignite upon discharge and spark from a firearm.

Can I use the above post as my signature? I will use the exact quote to appear:

I've got a better idea. In place of dousing you with petrol and making a fucking torch out you KKKelvin, how about I pop over and give you the great equaliser. Two shots to the back of the head toughguy. You in no way intimidate me son.

File that KKKelvin. - RAF

kelvin

28th June 2003, 20:54

Quote: from the amaryllis on 6:18 pm on June 28, 2003
for fuck's sake, stick by your comrades, LC. we have too much mudslinging in here as it is. and RAF mudslings enough for the both of you. :) (love you, raf)

You can not chose your family, but you can chose your friends. I don't know your opinion of me, but on the other is clearly agression, violence, bitterness, and foul language.

Vinny Rafarino

29th June 2003, 01:48

Me and RAF are by no means comrades, comrade. If he was a nazi and I was a jew, we still wouldnt be far enough apart.

And maybe when RAF stops acting like an arrogant, self rightous, pontficating, right wing, authotarian know it all, then the mudslinging will stop.

Correct we are nothing alike. I am a communist. You are simply a tool used by capitalism to destroy communism. You boy are no better than BoyKKKelvin here and shall be treated no better.

I understand you have very limited experience with the actual communist party considering your obvious political ineptness. But that is not an excuse for your counter revolutionary ideals.

Vinny Rafarino

29th June 2003, 01:57

KKKelvin can you not read? You are an imbecile. Please show me the portion of my post that says I will be holding a can of petrol and discharging a firearm. Let us review. Once again I will place the specific text in bold for you son.

"I've got a better idea. In place of dousing you with petrol and making a fucking torch out you KKKelvin, how about I pop over and give you the great equaliser. Two shots to the back of the head toughguy. You in no way intimidate me son."

You have the intellect of a child. Or at least similar Libertarian Commie over here.

Use it as your signature son, I can care less.

Unless your a paramilitary or special forces you'll have very little luck. I typically rank top 1% for police pistol qualifications. Not that I am any good, but civilian police are very poor close quarters combat shooters, and very rarely train. A typically officer will maybe discharge 100 rounds a year for training and qualification. I on the other hand train regularly for fun, typical rounds down range are 200 for rifle and 200 for pistol. I suggest before you handle any firearms for combat purposes, seek instruction, otherwise you are more dangerous to yourself. Plus holding a can of petrol and discharging a firearm is extremely dangerous. Fumes from the container can ignite upon discharge and spark from a firearm.

I thought you would have already know who the fuck I am boy. It's not like I have been hiding it. Look at my avatar you silly fool.

dopediana

29th June 2003, 06:25

get over yourselves, all three of you. reading back, you're just fucking spamming. oops. and there i go, bumping it to the top again.

The Feral Underclass

29th June 2003, 06:47

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 2:57 am on June 29, 2003 Blah Blah, Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah. blah..

RAF, quick, turn around....your house is on fire!

onepunchmachinegun

29th June 2003, 19:57

why be nationalistic when you can be internationalistic?
why should you be more solidaric with people just because they where born the same place as you?
why should you die for you country?

it isn't up the individual person where he/she is born. the only reason I see why a person can be patriotic is because they bond to the country where they are born. they have never tried to be born another place, the fewest have... that point makes patriotism complete senseless to me!

I'm from Denmark. I like the nature in Denmark, those few places where it haven't been destroyed. but still I have no other bond to Denmark and I would never even consider fighting for the country's freedom! rather I would fight for an anarchistic revolution and I would also fight for an anarchistic federation...

my point on patriotism!

Al Khabir

29th June 2003, 21:46

Its official: patriotism is there to iron out individuality, just like advertising. It is about putting the needs of something which you possibly do not believe in before your own beliefs.

Then look at what happens to CO's during wartime. If patriotism doesnt mean loyalty at the end of the bayonet I dont know what it means.

The Feral Underclass

29th June 2003, 22:00

I am from the UK but I am living in Denmark...great country! Loving it...im working for Tvind ;) ...actually, im a solidarity worker going to africa and I dont have anything to do with the teachers group. Anyway, I live in Juelsminde most of the time, but I am in a place called Nebbergård Alle about 25km from københavn (i like to usre the tree extra vowls on my keyboard whenever I can).

Where abouts are you from?

elijahcraig

30th June 2003, 04:09

You ought to read Emma Goldman's "Patriotism", it will explain my viewpoint. Enemy of Liberty.

Kapitan Andrey

30th June 2003, 04:23

We - Russians got a (kind'a) conception called RODINA...

It is more that patriotism, motherland,fatherland ect.

I our part of WW2 main army propaganda was:"RODINA-Mother is calling for you!"

Sense of our duty to serve our RODINA is coming with the milk of our Russina mothers!!! Every true Russian must give his live to protect our RODINA if it is in danger!

Thats how!

(Edited by Kapitan Andrey at 4:27 am on June 30, 2003)

elijahcraig

30th June 2003, 04:36

"Defend the motherland" is probably the worst hit on communism available.

Kapitan Andrey

30th June 2003, 04:44

WHAT!? :angry:

Zombie

30th June 2003, 05:11

who is this 'mother' you are talking about? the Russian elite? the Russian government? or the Russian people?

elijahcraig

30th June 2003, 13:34

Any nationalistic slogans should be shot down from the start. Millions dead for what? Stalin's totalitarian state, that is all.

Kapitan Andrey

2nd July 2003, 06:04

Idiots!

Zombie...You are not from Russia, so you cant FEEL the meaning of word RODINA!!!

elijahcraig...moron! That war was not only defending >stalin<...it defended WHOLE SLAVS NATIONS!!!...or you such stupid and you don't know what am I talking about!?

Hitler called all Slavs - Nedo-humans!!! And wanted to eliminate them!!!

elijahcraig

2nd July 2003, 08:03

I am against any nationalism, that includes your "defend the motherland" announcements. Calling me stupid solves nothing. Stupid? ...

Kapitan Andrey

3rd July 2003, 03:14

Idiot! Defending from eleminating IS NOT NATIONALISM!!!

elijahcraig

3rd July 2003, 03:33

I didn't say I was against defending yourself, but if they were defending against elimination, they weren't really defending the motherland, they were defending themselves. That slogan is nationalistic, pure and simple.

Kapitan Andrey

3rd July 2003, 03:53

A-AR-R-RGH!!!

YOU ARE NOT RUSSIAN, SO YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THIS WORD AND WHOLE SLOGAN!!!

Let's stop our discussion, because it might end by hard insultings!!!...

elijahcraig

3rd July 2003, 03:54

Explain to me what you mean by me "not being Russian, so I can't understand"? I don't mean to be offensive, I just might understand this correctly.

Kapitan Andrey

3rd July 2003, 04:17

...this feeling comes from heart!

Sometimes our country is bad: little level of life, corruption, big money stealing ect.

But sometimes this events goes down and country got serious problems and YOU feel, that Rodina is calling for you to help Russians, that suffering somewhere (example from our time - Pridnestrov'e in Moldova)...and you feel:"FUCK ALL THAT BAD EVENTS, I MUST HELP MY BROTHERS!!!"...this just...hard to explain to foreign people...

I wanted to help Serbs by any way...but I was young...

elijahcraig

3rd July 2003, 04:26

So it is nationalistic?

Urban Rubble

3rd July 2003, 04:30

"FUCK ALL THAT BAD EVENTS, I MUST HELP MY BROTHERS!!!"...this just...hard to explain to foreign people..."

So Krapitan, you're saying that only Russians know what it's like to want to help their countrymen ? You get funnier everyday.

By the way, Putin sucks.

elijahcraig

3rd July 2003, 04:37

Yes, that's what I mean by this. It's not a singular thing.

Kapitan Andrey

3rd July 2003, 05:23

Fuckin' Rubble, by saying Brothers I meant not only Russians, but all Slavs especially Serbs!!!

elijahcraig

3rd July 2003, 05:35

But saying that we can't understand that because we're not "brothers" is ridiculous. I would fight for someone if they were being invaded, it is not a one-sided thing.

Kapitan Andrey

3rd July 2003, 05:51

How nice!? Have you fought for N.Cyprus, Serbia, Iraq!?

But anyway...will you figth if yankee got to Cuba!? I will!!! They become my brothers !!!

elijahcraig

3rd July 2003, 07:19

Yes I would fight.

Al Khabir

3rd July 2003, 20:52

Give any of us a gun and the help of the people and im sure we would all fight! we are brothers in socialism! Divisions from small matters only helps the Nationalists, but in a time of war we would unite with each other. It is what would happen afterwards that would be dangerous...

redstar2000

4th July 2003, 23:35

As a native-born citizen and life-long resident of the Great American Empire, patriotism to me is an undiluted pile of shit and I wouldn't bother squeezing a pimple on my ass to defend the U$A in any way whatsoever.

According to Marx and Engles, the international working class has no country. That sounds reasonable to me.

:cool:

Vinny Rafarino

5th July 2003, 00:10

i DEFOEND MOTHERLAND!!! iF YANKEE GO CUBA I FIHGT!!
YANKEE CANOT TAKE RUSSWIAN SPIRIT!!! RUBBLE IS IDIOT!! rODINA IN MY SPIRIT PROCTECTS BROTHERS FROM BIG MONEY THAT KELLS RUSSIAN SPIRIT!!! EVEN SLAVS AND SERBS!! YOU ARE MORON!!!

rAW DEaL bILL

5th July 2003, 03:20

holy fuck. these people are sooo nationalistic. whats with you people and obsesseing with your "motherland"??? who gives a fuck where someones from! shit! if i was form russia and someone attacked it or somethign i would NOT be defending my COUNTRY id be defending my SELF. FUCK countries! theyre like religions allt hey do is divide and start hate. who gives a fuck about ru country?!?!? god. some peopel disgust me. anyway patriotism is just americas form of nationalism. its a way for the government to brainwash its people intot hinking this countries better than all the rest and making them like the idiots here like andrey, so that if anything ever happens where theres an invasion itll have millions of people outraged that anyopne could ever try to harm the great wonderful u$a and have all those poeple rushing to the battlefields to "fight for their country" its all a load of shit if you ask me and people like captain andrey are perfect examples of what the governments are trying to accomplish. keep it up andrey its exactly what they want. peace.

rAW DEaL bILL

5th July 2003, 03:23

fighting for socialism however is totaly different. but, i wouldnt defend the country of cuba id defend its people. someone needs to do that NOW too and kill castro. put in ANYTHING but another fucking dictator to ruin the name of communism. absolute power corrupts absolutly.

Zombie

5th July 2003, 21:08

But anyway...will you figth if yankee got to Cuba!? I will!!! They become my brothers !!!

yeah, all you need is a green light huh.

You say you want to fight for Cuba, but Iraq was attacked no more than 5 months ago, where were you then?
Or you don't want to be brother with Iraqis? Huh? Huh?

Vinny Rafarino

5th July 2003, 21:42

Zombie. You are off your fucking rocker today son. Can you not see that I was mocking Andrey. Do you really want to go down this road again with me? Just say the words mate.

canikickit

6th July 2003, 00:10

Now, now, now RAF, why would you presume that Zombie is quoting you when it is Andrey's words which appear?

Kapitan Andrey

6th July 2003, 02:46

rAW DEaL bILL,RAF...

Fuck you, morons!!! Especially RAF(-fike) !!!

raf(-fic)! It is stupid to mock me by wrong english and wrong quotes!!!
rAW MoRon bILL...Who da' hell are you!? 13th years old sucker!? SHUT UP you little yankee-peckerhead!!!

Defending Rodina is not nationalism!!! Every nation, that live in Russia will stand to fight our enemy!!! Is that nationalism!?

...but Chechnya is not kind'a defence of Rodina...this is restoring of order!!!

(Edited by Kapitan Andrey at 2:49 am on July 6, 2003)

Felicia

6th July 2003, 02:55

Andrey, I'm sorry, but your insults are just too cute! I can't help but giggle...... "yankee-peckerhead"? Awww it's even cuter when you're really angry! :) Can I ask how old you are? :)

da svedenya, I must go to sleep now. Good night :)

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 03:36

kapitan andery, i love you. you are hillarious. please keep up the good work. youknow, you should realy be getting paid for this kind of comedy. "Every nation, that live in Russia will stand to fight our enemy!!! Is that nationalism!?" ummm... YES! i stated why and how in my other post moron. russian-"peckerhead" fighting to defend yourself? fine. but defending your "country" and being outraged anyone could do such a thing to such a wonderfull place IS NATIONALISM. your a perfect example of governmental brainwash. they WANT you to be so defensive of a fucking piece of land (which, might i add is capitalist) they WANT you to "defend motherland" as if it was some holy land. but like i said keep it up your HILLARIOUS. im beggining to think your like a bot that wa smade to entertain us man. i love you andry. you just make my day :biggrin:

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 03:50

and your racism against "yankees" can go right back to you. u hate yanks cuz some of them did bad things. well russians soiled the name of sommunism! they fucked up something that started out with great intentions! they fucked up theyre revolution! u dont see me racist against russians do you? okthen! biznotch! lol. i hate the yankee government and the percentage of yanks. but u cant ever say ALL of something is bad. except nazis. and fascists. but yea u know. peace.

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 03:52

communism* :-P

Kapitan Andrey

6th July 2003, 03:55

SHUT UP!!! yankee-little boy!!!

...soon...very soon...we will crush all yankee...Have you heard about Nuclear Apocalypsis!?...HA-HA-HA!!! Are you sceared!? Yea...your trousers are wet already!!! Go away and get dry!!! :biggrin:

Felicia

6th July 2003, 04:03

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 11:55 pm on July 5, 2003
SHUT UP!!! yankee-little boy!!!

...soon...very soon...we will crush all yankee...Have you heard about Nuclear Apocalypsis!?...HA-HA-HA!!! Are you sceared!? Yea...your trousers are wet already!!! Go away and get dry!!! :biggrin:
aww, a nuclear apocalypse really isn't anything to be happy about. It doesn't just affect the countries at war, it affects all of us, our environment, everything :(

Felicia

6th July 2003, 04:05

*oh, it says I didn't post......... *

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 04:09

like i said kapitan, i love you! u realy are hillarious! thank you for listening to me and keeping up the good work, while NOT listening to me and being a racist skinhead wank! ur great man! peace

Kapitan Andrey

6th July 2003, 04:34

Get lost, kid!

felicia...oh...don't be sad...I've been kidding...don't be angry on me...and wisit Chit Chat...and you'll se something...really sad!

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 05:05

very intelligent comment kapitan! im beggining to expect i may be less intelligent then.... dare i say it? a 13 yr old yank! how pathetic!

Kapitan Andrey

6th July 2003, 05:13

You are insulting yourself...that's funny! :biggrin:

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 05:27

was i? i think i was actualy insulting u kapitan. hate ta brake it to ya.

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 05:29

i meant to say "it" in the post to you. its called a typo. u make a lotofem u should know dude. and just cuz u were probobly a fuckign idiot at 13 (wouldnt surprise me u are one now) doesnt mean i am fuckface.

Kapitan Andrey

6th July 2003, 09:36

Ha-ha! You just again prooved, that you are little assehole and fuckface!!! :biggrin:

Anonymous

6th July 2003, 09:39

This is some fucked up shit right here.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 9:42 am on July 6, 2003)

Kapitan Andrey

6th July 2003, 10:27

Shut up, warmonger! :angry:

Zombie

6th July 2003, 11:34

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 4:42 pm on July 5, 2003
Zombie. You are off your fucking rocker today son. Can you not see that I was mocking Andrey. Do you really want to go down this road again with me? Just say the words mate.

I was quoting Andrey, like Cani said. Read my posts a few times before attacking me nonesensly again.

Soul Rebel

6th July 2003, 13:07

(Edited by SenoraChe at 1:08 pm on July 6, 2003)

Felicia

6th July 2003, 14:16

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 12:34 am on July 6, 2003

Get lost, kid!

felicia...oh...don't be sad...I've been kidding...don't be angry on me...and wisit Chit Chat...and you'll se something...really sad!

ok, aslong as you're kidding :)

Vinny Rafarino

6th July 2003, 16:04

Quote: from canikickit on 12:10 am on July 6, 2003
Now, now, now RAF, why would you presume that Zombie is quoting you when it is Andrey's words which appear?

Whoooops. I'm an asshole.

Vinny Rafarino

6th July 2003, 16:18

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 4:04 pm on July 6, 2003

Quote: from canikickit on 12:10 am on July 6, 2003
Now, now, now RAF, why would you presume that Zombie is quoting you when it is Andrey's words which appear?

Whoooops. I'm an asshole.

HA HA HA!!!...Yous are all 13 yaers old fucukface yankee and assehole!!! HA HA HA!!!

Felicia

6th July 2003, 16:25

grow up raf

Vinny Rafarino

6th July 2003, 16:42

For fuck's sake Felicia. Just because you dig this imperialistic cock-sucker does not mean we must as well. At 35 I think I've done all the growing I'm gonna do missy.

Felicia

6th July 2003, 17:16

A mocking comment like this doesn't exactly exhibit grownup behaviour.

"HA HA HA!!!...Yous are all 13 yaers old fucukface yankee and assehole!!! HA HA HA!!! "

And it's a shame that you're going to stop trying to mature your attitude at 35, because you've got a long way to go.

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 19:26

i do believe someone got played mofo! :biggrins: lol. RAF, were u mocking the stalinist nationalist moron russian or me?

Felicia

6th July 2003, 19:30

Quote: from rAW DEaL bILL on 3:26 pm on July 6, 2003
i do believe someone got played mofo! :biggrins: lol. RAF, were u mocking the stalinist nationalist moron russian or me?
He was mocking Andrey, that's why I intruded. However, if it were you he was mocking, I may not have ;)

(Edited by felicia at 3:30 pm on July 6, 2003)

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 19:40

i seeeeeeeeee. *sniffles* lol. ok i had a speach prepared to yell at RAF that now wont be nessesary. peace

Soul Rebel

6th July 2003, 19:48

It seems we have once again gotten off topic, but here is what patriotism means to me:

its the ability to love your country, while being able to recognize its mistakes and flaws. Being able to see these flaws does not make you anti-american, anti-chinese, anti-french, etc. Truthfully, it makes you a better citizen because you are seeing what is wrong and want it to improve.

Many americans, or other people, do not understand that. They believe that to be patriotic that you must love everything about the country and that it is better than the rest. They have this mentality that either you love everything or you leave. This to me in not patriotism but plain old stupidity. To have such a loyalty to any country without seeing its flaws is being a brainwashed individual.

Felicia

6th July 2003, 19:57

Quote: from rAW DEaL bILL on 7:40 pm on July 6, 2003
i seeeeeeeeee. *sniffles* lol. ok i had a speach prepared to yell at RAF that now wont be nessesary. peace

haha, I was just teasing you :)

patriotism to me is not being ashamed of my country's past history. I am, I'm ashamed of what we've don't to our native peoples (it's because of their condition that we've dropped from in the UN ranking as the best place to live.... that's our government's fault because of how they're treated).
I'm ashamed of our racist actions in somalia :angry:

that's it for now :)

Soul Rebel

6th July 2003, 20:02

see felicia- that to me would be a form of patriotism because you are able to see what your country has done wrong.

i love spain, but am ashamed of the things we have done in the past. However, by recognizing what we did wrong and not wanting to repeat the same mistakes that my ancestors had done i am a better spaniard. my proffesor really helped me see this.

rAW DEaL bILL

6th July 2003, 20:07

yea spains done some pretty fucked up shit man. i dont know much about it know but i know there was an anarchist revolution that was wiped out by the communists and then the fascist :( wah. i also heard theres a pretty good anarchist population still in barcelona but thats about it... i dont consider knoing ur countries faults patriotism though. it hink thaqts just being critical. patriotism is blind love and pride for your country, usualy brought on by corperate media or governmental brainwash so the people can be easily swayed into thinking whatever the ruling party is doin is right cuz its "the american way" for example or something.

Soul Rebel

6th July 2003, 20:15

yeah, spain has done some crappy things, but unlike the us they have recognized this (except when it comes to el pais basque). the spanish population has recognized their mistakes and have tried to avoid doing it again. as a result, they have become a very open minded people.

there is still a very large population of anarchists. i dont know if you can read or write in spanish, but i can give you some websites to check it out. there is also a very large socialist population. people there are extremely political and really know their stuff. im telling ya- never cross a spaniard the wrong way when it comes to politics :)

see i think that knowing you country's faults is essential because you want your country to improve. i seriously think we have been led to believe that patriotism is blind love, when in reality that is just ignorance.

Felicia

6th July 2003, 22:56

Quote: from SenoraChe on 4:02 pm on July 6, 2003
see felicia- that to me would be a form of patriotism because you are able to see what your country has done wrong.

i love spain, but am ashamed of the things we have done in the past. However, by recognizing what we did wrong and not wanting to repeat the same mistakes that my ancestors had done i am a better spaniard. my proffesor really helped me see this.

Thankyou. :)

I was watching a program a long time ago on the Somalia incident (that I first learned of in school) and I started hating canada. ooooo it pissed me off.

If you don't know what happened, a bunch of canadians captured a somalian boy and tortured him to death, they took photos of the soldiers posing with the captive. They beat the child's head in with a baseball bat, to the point where his skull was mush. They burned him with cigarettes, etc. The military unit (can't remember the name of it now) was later abolished by our government because of what happened, and it was found that many of the canadians in that unit were aryans.

Kapitan Andrey

22nd July 2003, 06:55

felicia...thank you for defending me!

rAW DEaL bILL...Fuck you again, you little-yankee-fuckface!!! :biggrin:

COMRADE RAF...SHUT UP and don't insult Felicia!!! :angry:

Dr. Rosenpenis

22nd July 2003, 07:44

I am not a patriot, not by devotion and love to my country, or by pride and motivation to improve my country. My loyalties lie with the international proletariat.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

22nd July 2003, 12:46

That I am anti-nationalist and not patriotic doesn't mean that I hate "my country".

Felicia

22nd July 2003, 13:03

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 2:55 am on July 22, 2003
felicia...thank you for defending me!

rAW DEaL bILL...Fuck you again, you little-yankee-fuckface!!! :biggrin:

COMRADE RAF...SHUT UP and don't insult Felicia!!! :angry:

Oh hun, you're always welcome :)

Al Khabir

22nd July 2003, 16:08

I dont think we need to be ashamed of our countries past mistakes.. As long as we learn from them is enough. The British empire is a perfect example. A hundred years ago empire was a perfectly acceptable concept in the west so we shouldnt judge them on their actions as society has changed so much.

dopediana

22nd July 2003, 16:23

raw deal bill, don't ever let me see you mocking andrey again. or anyone for that matter. you're just as bad as raf.

al khabir, ethical relevance may work for some people but to say that NOW we should not be ashamed is totally wrong. that's like justifying the trail of tears because it was the common american mentality that indians were inferior, no matter how "noble" a "savage" jefferson proclaimed them to be. i refuse to accept that. it's wrong. we all KNOW BETTER. we have to responsibility of atoning for our past mistakes, at least admitting fault if nothing else.