Communism has not been achieved yet!

[thinkerOFthoughts]

I need resources, examples reasons why it has not. Why did most of the Communist community back then claim Russia to be Communist when it wasn't? what refutation are available to me?

(desperate? yeah I am sorry.)

[KurtFF8]

What? You don't need examples or reasons other than the definition of Communism: "A Stateless classless society where the means of production are owned in common"

The "Communist community" never claimed that Russia was Communist but that it was socialist (the transitional stage from capitalism to Communism).

As for why that transition didn't happen, there are quite a few different explanations by the left (one for example being that international socialism didn't happen and the USSR became isolated)

[thinkerOFthoughts]

What? You don't need examples or reasons other than the definition of Communism: "A Stateless classless society where the means of production are owned in common"

The "Communist community" never claimed that Russia was Communist but that it was socialist (the transitional stage from capitalism to Communism).

As for why that transition didn't happen, there are quite a few different explanations by the left (one for example being that international socialism didn't happen and the USSR became isolated)
Thank you that was a breath of fresh air for me:)

[thinkerOFthoughts]

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/communism.htm

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism

well thats what I got for bringing up that definition apparently definitions that show my definition is wrong:confused: and this statement.

Also, the definitions which I provided speak nothing of a stateless society. Instead, it speaks to a superstate which controls everything (which Russia, China, etc) has done. Also, the very heart of Communism deals with societal class. It cannot simply be removed.

Ok... uhhhh

[thinkerOFthoughts]

The problem is aparently that answer is not good enough because "So many communists back then claimed it was a communist masterpiece!" lol and I have no idea what to do about the definition thing! aparently its fairly conflicting:(

[Drace]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism (http://www.anonym.to/?http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism)
The definition there is false, but #1 would be correct if it didn't say "or state". Kind a sad of a thing having Western propaganda printed in dictionaries...


"So many communists back then claimed it was a communist masterpiece!Ehh no.

[thinkerOFthoughts]

The definition there is false, but #1 would be correct if it didn't say "or state". Kind a sad of a thing having Western propaganda printed in dictionaries...
Ehh no.

what about the other definitions given me?

[Q]

http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/c/o.htm#communism

This is the definition given by actual communists.

[Drace]

what about the other definitions given me?

That sentence doesn't make much sense...

What other definition?

[ZeroNowhere]

Debs supported the Russian Revolution, but that's probably because pretty much all of the information he would be getting would be that the US is scared of them, and that it was a socialist revolution. (Socialism and communism are synonyms)
Really, it would be pretty encouraging to a socialist at the time. Also, of course, the SLP believed that Lenin supported De Leonism (not true, unfortunately). However, no socialist would honestly claim that 'Soviet' Russia was ever socialist/communist. Well, unless they were from SPUSA, but apparently they're going to correct that some time soon.

[Plagueround]

The problem is aparently that answer is not good enough because "So many communists back then claimed it was a communist masterpiece!" lol and I have no idea what to do about the definition thing! aparently its fairly conflicting:(

Ask them for sources of these claims. They appear to making you bend over backward for citations...have they done the same?

[ernie]

(the transitional stage from capitalism to Communism).
You see, even on this board people have different definitions of things. AFAIK, Marx never talked about socialism as a transition between capitalism and communism. That's an even stronger argument about the USSR: they were not even trying achieve communism.


As for why that transition didn't happen, there are quite a few different explanations by the left (one for example being that international socialism didn't happen and the USSR became isolated)
Again, Leninist explanations that are really hard to defend (mostly because they are silly).

In general, I think you'll find it really difficult to defend Leninism on non-Leninist boards. That's because it's pretty clear that this paradigm does not lead to communism, and the people you argue with know it. All the usual excuses (revisionism, lack of "international socialism", they didn't grasp the dialectic, etc) won't get you very far in a debate.

[Tower of Bebel]

Just read Marx' critique of the Gotha program, Lenin's state and revolution and Engels letters on the Paris Commune and then compare to the USSR.