Is their a difference?

[thinkerOFthoughts]

Between the Government and say Capitalism? I mean Capitalism is the way it functions but is it the Government? Do Communists fight against the Government or the force that drives it?

[Q]

Between the Government and say Capitalism? I mean Capitalism is the way it functions but is it the Government? Do Communists fight against the Government or the force that drives it?

The state under capitalism is the protector of the bourgeoisie and ensures its hegemony. Communists fight for the overthrow of the capitalist state and replace it with a workers state (i.e. a state where the working class dominates over the capitalists).

I recommend you read The State and Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm).

[gorillafuck]

We fight against capitalist governments

[thinkerOFthoughts]

Surly it cant be just Capitalist governments? I mean their must still be different kinds of governments out their Exploiting the workers via different means than Capitalism?

[thinkerOFthoughts]

The state under capitalism is the protector of the bourgeoisie and ensures its hegemony. Communists fight for the overthrow of the capitalist state and replace it with a workers state (i.e. a state where the working class dominates over the capitalists).

I recommend you read The State and Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm).

Thanks for the link I wont be able to start reading it tonight but I will start reading it soon. Currently I am reading the book about an Intro to Anarcho-Communism :) but I will get around to the other thing :)

[ernie]

Between the Government and say Capitalism? I mean Capitalism is the way it functions but is it the Government? Do Communists fight against the Government or the force that drives it?
I don't think you can do one without the other. The ruling class uses the state to defend itself, so we'll end up fighting the battles against agents of the state (cops, soldiers, etc), anyway. That being said, I think we must always be clear that the ruling class is whom we're fighting, and not "the state" as some independent thing.

[ernie]

Thanks for the link I wont be able to start reading it tonight but I will start reading it soon. Currently I am reading the book about an Intro to Anarcho-Communism :) but I will get around to the other thing :)
I think you should read Marx before (instead of?) reading Lenin. It's a good idea to have a firm grasp on historical materialism before you before you read about Leninism; it will help you to read it more objectively. It's also a good tool when you're reading anarchists. I found it helped me appreciate works like God and The State better.

[Black Sheep]

The state is a tool of class oppression.

The state is the monopoly of power and authority.

The 1st definition is the Marxist one, who said the 2nd?

[Drace]

Capitalism is an economic mode of production. I do not see how you can say capitalism is the government...

The government is a set of people which have political powers that those in it do not have. Capitalism is run by the individuals who own the means of production, and is withheld with the use of those who are able to dominate the people (The Government)

BTW, there are anarcho-capitalists who believe the government should be overthrown but not capitalism.

[ZeroNowhere]

BTW, there are anarcho-capitalists who believe the government should be overthrown but not capitalism.
There are no anarcho-capitalists, because anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron. The so-called 'anarcho-capitalists' are pretty much just fascists in disguise, extreme statists.

[#FF0000]

There are no anarcho-capitalists, because anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron. The so-called 'anarcho-capitalists' are pretty much just fascists in disguise, extreme statists.

To elaborate, anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron because capitalism requires hierarchy and coercion, and therefore could not possibly be anarchist.

[Comrade_Ceaucescu]

Anarchism good, in long run! NEED NO STATE! FIGHT, WORKER, FIGHT!

But in short run, state powerful state needed. So it need be worker state, not fascist bourgeoisise pig state

[Drace]

There are no anarcho-capitalists, because anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron. .It isn't an oxymoron logically. Capitalism by definition, does not require a state. And whether anarcho-capitalism can work or not, it doesn't matter. All I said is that is an ideology some hold.


The so-called 'anarcho-capitalists' are pretty much just fascists in disguise, extreme statists

How the shiz? When someone believes there should be no state, you say that they actually believe the opposite?...

[revolution inaction]

It isn't an oxymoron logically. Capitalism by definition, does not require a state. And whether anarcho-capitalism can work or not, it doesn't matter. All I said is that is an ideology some hold.

It is anarchism is anti capitalist, not just anti state.



How the shiz? When someone believes there should be no state, you say that they actually believe the opposite?...

They don't actually want to get rid of the state they just want it privatised :)