The Swastika

[Revy]

Interesting site, Reclaim the Swastika (http://www.reclaimtheswastika.com/).

I agree with them that the swastika is not inherently a bad symbol. I once went to a museum here in Florida and they had a section of the Seminole tribe and artifacts and there were swastikas ,and this use of the swastika seems to be present all over the world in every continent. I agree with them that people should not confuse their use of it with Nazism or fascism.

[bcbm]

Obviously people should recognize other uses of the symbol, but it can never be reclaimed.

[Holden Caulfield]

i think it is a asthetically attractive symbol, and that is why it has been used for so long through out history, romans, hindus, nazis etc...

but due to the fact it is related with the nazis and the horrors of fascism i think it shouldnt be attempted to be reclaimed, it would be disrespectful to do it

[F9]

under that symbol million of people died, no i do not want to reclaim it!

Fuserg9:star:

[Plagueround]

under that symbol million of people died, no i do not want to reclaim it!

Fuserg9:star:

:hammersickle: <--- This one too. But it doesn't make the symbol itself bad. I'd love the swastika to be reclaimed and restored to its old meaning, but I do not see it happening anytime soon. It is unfortunate, but there is too much pain associated with it.

[F9]

:hammersickle: <--- This one too. But it doesn't make the symbol itself bad. I'd love the swastika to be reclaimed and restored to its old meaning, but I do not see it happening anytime soon. It is unfortunate, but there is too much pain associated with it.

Yeah i saw that coming, and its basically true, but i dont connect the symbol of the workers, with the flag that had this symbol and beyond it million people died.I can see my self in double standards here tbh although i see them in totally different way.

Fuserg9:star:

[Plagueround]

Yeah i saw that coming, and its basically true, but i dont connect the symbol of the workers, with the flag that had this symbol and beyond it million people died.I can see my self in double standards here tbh although i see them in totally different way.

Fuserg9:star:

I see them in a different way as well. Getting people to see that is the hard part. ;)

[Sankofa]

I understand the movement, but the Swastika is never going to be reclaimed. It was ruined the moment Hitler started flying it around. :(

[Gleb]

We made a mistake when we "gave" that symbol to the Nazi; removing them from all usage was a mistake in the first place and now it probably is too late to clean up the mess; in Western world swastika is already "that Nazi symbol" and only a very narrow minority knows the other meaning the symbol bears.

And we have to remember that when we talk about swastika being related to crimes of nazism, we are talking about mainly the occidental world. In southern Asia, the symbol still has pretty much its original meaning and is common not only in decorations of older temples and statues but is still in every-day use as a religious and cultural symbol. It's really not a marginal thing in orient - we are talking about area with over billion inhabitants.

[Organic Revolution]

This is as absurd as the want to reclaim many other hurtful social slurs and such. Why would you want to reclaim a symbol that was the image that sent 12 million prisoners to their death? It is the same as wanting to reclaim 'nigger' as a term that is has nothing but horrible historical connotations to it. Folks who wish to 'reclaim' symbols that were historically used as symbols of death and destruction dont understand the existence of oppressed groups in society.

[PostAnarchy]

Good point. I remember reading how the swastika originally did not have the evil and sinister meaning it does today. Maybe it will be a good idea to reclaim this symbol and out of the hands of the completely undeserving Nazis.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It's definitely a symbol that seems to be used by many different cultures.

I remember watching Fearless, and in one scene where Jet Li's character is talking to his mother, the wall behind her is decorated with a kind of reverse swastika design.

http://www.cabiz.net/heartlink/swastika4.gif

[Module]

This is as absurd as the want to reclaim many other hurtful social slurs and such. Why would you want to reclaim a symbol that was the image that sent 12 million prisoners to their death? It is the same as wanting to reclaim 'nigger' as a term that is has nothing but horrible historical connotations to it. Folks who wish to 'reclaim' symbols that were historically used as symbols of death and destruction dont understand the existence of oppressed groups in society.
This.
The swastika may've had a different meaning originally, but the fact of the matter is that it was adopted by the Nazis, and it is the symbol people associate with Nazism. The sheer importance of the current meaning of the swastika, and what it represents turns all other previous meanings into totally irrelevant history, and as Organic Revolution said, to try to take the swastika away from Nazism is almost disrespectful to the millions of people that died because of it.

[Plagueround]

This.
The swastika may've had a different meaning originally, but the fact of the matter is that it was adopted by the Nazis, and it is the symbol people associate with Nazism. The sheer importance of the current meaning of the swastika, and what it represents turns all other previous meanings into totally irrelevant history, and as Organic Revolution said, to try to take the swastika away from Nazism is almost disrespectful to the millions of people that died because of it.

Given what most people's impression of communism is these days, should we abandon the hammer and the sickle, the red star, etc.? I commonly hear people outraged that we have not abandoned the same symbols used by Stalin and friends. Keep in mind I'm not trying to start any "Stalin: Baby Eater or Socialist Hero?" debates, merely trying to approach the situation from the same perspective.

[Junius]

Its pretty arrogant of some to argue that the Western understanding of the Swastika defines it and that all other uses of it are therefore invalid. It has all sorts of different meanings in both religious and cultural settings. Hell, even various communist movements today still use the symbol, and certainly not as support for Nazism!


Originally posted by Organic Revolution
Why would you want to reclaim a symbol that was the image that sent 12 million prisoners to their death?No symbol sent 12 million to the death camp. That's insulting.


Originally posted by Organic Revolution
It is the same as wanting to reclaim 'nigger' as a term that is has nothing but horrible historical connotations to it.And who are you to define whether a black person wants to use 'nigger' or not? Or whether a Buddhist or a Hindu can use the Swastika in a manner that suits them?


Originally posted by Organic Revolution
Folks who wish to 'reclaim' symbols that were historically used as symbols of death and destruction dont understand the existence of oppressed groups in society.Yeah, just because someone doesn't support the view that the West = world is therefore ignorant of oppression. :rolleyes: You don't understand anything outside your own door step.

Not that I want to somehow 'reclaim' the symbol, since it either represents Nazism or other religious and cultural meanings which frankly as a communist I don't care about.


Originally posted by Desrumeaux
The sheer importance of the current meaning of the swastikaThere is no monolithic current meaning of the swastika. It has multiple meanings in different religions, different cultures and different contexts. Hell, as a discrimination moderator you should recognize the invalidity of broad claims and generalizations!


Originally posted by Desrumeaux
and what it represents turns all other previous meanings into totally irrelevant historySo the way some skinhead uses the symbol in the UK defines it for some Buddhist in Thailand...?


Originally posted by Desrumeaux
and as Organic Revolution said, to try to take the swastika away from Nazism is almost disrespectful to the millions of people that died because of it.1. No one died because of a symbol. Certainly the ideas behind it, but not via a symbol itself. Obviously.

2. There are billions of people whom don't associate it with that. Are you just going to brush aside their meaning of it because it was formerly 'used' in a despicable manner?


Originally posted by TSSG
And we have to remember that when we talk about swastika being related to crimes of nazism, we are talking about mainly the occidental world. In southern Asia, the symbol still has pretty much its original meaning and is common not only in decorations of older temples and statues but is still in every-day use as a religious and cultural symbol. It's really not a marginal thing in orient - we are talking about area with over billion inhabitants.Thank you.

[benhur]

Crusades, witch huntings, and inquisitions killed a lot more people. Are Christians being forced to abandon the cross?

[MarxSchmarx]

Fairly or unfairly, it's probably etched and associated with Nazism forever in the west.

Having said that, the swastika is ubiquitous on Japanese maps; it's used a symbol to denote "temple", kind of like how a cross denotes a church on Western maps.
http://www.yoshiminedera.com/komyoji-fukin.gif

maybe as westerners are exposed to the symbol more often abroad it can be defanged of its meaning. But for now, this is a lost cause; moreover, who cares?

[Revy]

This is as absurd as the want to reclaim many other hurtful social slurs and such. Why would you want to reclaim a symbol that was the image that sent 12 million prisoners to their death? It is the same as wanting to reclaim 'nigger' as a term that is has nothing but horrible historical connotations to it. Folks who wish to 'reclaim' symbols that were historically used as symbols of death and destruction dont understand the existence of oppressed groups in society.

Well, it's interesting you compare the swastika to the n-word.

Because its use was also seen in Africa.

Ashanti goldweights:

http://proswastika.org/e107_images/custom/africa_ghana.jpg

I also think it's interesting that you say the use of the swastika offends oppressed groups. The same people trying to reclaim the swastika from a negative meaning, are mainly Hindus and in the UK in response to the proposed EU law banning the swastika. Last time I checked, the racists in British society don't like South Asians so much.

Do I have a vested interest in this? No. I don't use the symbol. However, I object to the idea that an ancient and positive symbol should somehow forever be taboo because of the fact it was stolen from the people that used it for an altogether different purpose. What these people are envisioning, is the idea that this symbol could be a legitimate religious symbol for people of all ethnicities and cultures to use as they see fit.

Do you perhaps know what the country name of Iran means? "Land of the Aryans". Should they change the name of their country?

[PostAnarchy]

Well, it's interesting you compare the swastika to the n-word.

Because its use was also seen in Africa.

Ashanti goldweights:

http://proswastika.org/e107_images/custom/africa_ghana.jpg

I also think it's interesting that you say the use of the swastika offends oppressed groups. The same people trying to reclaim the swastika from a negative meaning, are mainly Hindus and in the UK in response to the proposed EU law banning the swastika. Last time I checked, the racists in British society don't like South Asians so much.

Do I have a vested interest in this? No. I don't use the symbol. However, I object to the idea that an ancient and positive symbol should somehow forever be taboo because of the fact it was stolen from the people that used it for an altogether different purpose. What these people are envisioning, is the idea that this symbol could be a legitimate religious symbol for people of all ethnicities and cultures to use as they see fit.

Do you perhaps know what the country name of Iran means? "Land of the Aryans". Should they change the name of their country?

that's fascinating stuff there. Was aware that the Japanese used it but the Africans as well - quite a storied history it has!

[bcbm]

I think the people bringing up the fact that the symbol continues to represent something different to large amounts of people are being a little bit too harsh. It seems pretty obvious that what is being referred to here is usage in the western world, given that a majority of posters come from the western world.

[Mujer Libre]

Obviously people should recognize other uses of the symbol, but it can never be reclaimed.
Yup, because none of the cultures that use the symbol use the Nazi swastika- they all look different.

And they still use the symbol- it's commonplace in South Asia for example, with none of the Nazi connotations- because it looks different.

The azi swastika can't ever be "reclaimed" because it wasn't ours at all- it was only ever a Nazi symbol.

[Module]

There is no monolithic current meaning of the swastika. It has multiple meanings in different religions, different cultures and different contexts. Hell, as a discrimination moderator you should recognize the invalidity of broad claims and generalizations!
So the way some skinhead uses the symbol in the UK defines it for some Buddhist in Thailand...?
No one died because of a symbol. Certainly the ideas behind it, but not via a symbol itself. Obviously.

2. There are billions of people whom don't associate it with that. Are you just going to brush aside their meaning of it because it was formerly 'used' in a despicable manner?

Thank you. Firstly, I didn’t say anybody died because of the symbol, I said they died because of Nazism.
Secondly, if Nazism isn’t the ‘current meaning’ of the swastika then there would be frankly nothing for anyone to reclaim; the website wants to reclaim the word in Europe. The way ‘some skinhead’ uses the symbol doesn’t define it for ‘some Buddhist’ in Thailand, but similarly the way some Buddhist uses the symbol in Thailand doesn’t define it for anybody else in Europe. Some Buddhist in Thailand can by all means continue to use the swastika in their religious ceremonies or whatever they want, but that is not an issue. That Buddhist in Thailand can already use the swastika for religious purposes.
This website seeks to reclaim the use of the swastika, from Nazism, to, what, a symbol for good luck in a few religions that are positively marginal in Europe, where the swastika truly represents Nazism. I’m sorry, but (edit: for the people of Europe) the swastika’s relevance to these religions in comparison to millions of people dying is very small. If Buddhists and Hindus want to use the swastika in their own way, fine, whatever. That doesn’t mean that they should “reclaim” it, that is, have their meaning be the commonly acknowledged one.

[Sasha]

my thoughts on the swastika are already expressed by a lot of people, within the western world it will be impossible and insulting to use the symbol again, if hindus etc use it and refuse to give it op i see no problem in that. context is everything.

talking about the :hammersickle:; i used to wear it sometimes as an beltbuckle or a t-shirt (to be honest mostly to piss off my dogmatic anarchist friends) but since i have a lot of mates from eastern europe who took real offence to it i don't do it anymore. so i think that also with that symbol context and situation is importand.

kind of gave up on using both the :hammersickle: and the :blackA: on posters, baners and flyers anyway, i sometimes still use the :star: but most of the times i go for pirate flags or the AFA symbol.

[Dystisis]

This is as absurd as the want to reclaim many other hurtful social slurs and such. Why would you want to reclaim a symbol that was the image that sent 12 million prisoners to their death? It is the same as wanting to reclaim 'nigger' as a term that is has nothing but horrible historical connotations to it. Folks who wish to 'reclaim' symbols that were historically used as symbols of death and destruction dont understand the existence of oppressed groups in society.
Perhaps it is you who don't understand that this symbol is not exclusively a nazi symbol. Perhaps thinking it is shows that you have a very western oriented frame of mind.

[bcbm]

Perhaps it is you who don't understand that this symbol is not exclusively a nazi symbol. Perhaps thinking it is shows that you have a very western oriented frame of mind.

And the Thai Buddhist who uses a swastika has a very Eastern oriented frame of mind and doesn't understand it is a Nazi symbol, eh? :glare:

[Robespierre2.0]

Uh, I don't mean to be rude, but who really gives a shit?
It's just a symbol.

Just make sure you know the context of it. Use common sense. If you walk into a Buddhist shrine all decked out on swastikas, nobody's going to bat an eye.
Don't expect the same reaction when walking into a synagogue.

The Swastika does look cool, though. Admit it. Before you learned about the Holocaust, you thought the Swastika looked cool and drew pictures of it everywhere.
Still, I like the hammer and sickle far better- ideology aside.

[Revy]

Perhaps it is you who don't understand that this symbol is not exclusively a nazi symbol. Perhaps thinking it is shows that you have a very western oriented frame of mind.

Bingo!
This seems to be the perspective pushed in this thread. "This is how it is in the West, but when you come over here, you have to assimilate into our cultural view of the symbol we stole from you!" How delightfully condescending.

[Bilan]

Who cares? It's just a symbol.

[bcbm]

Bingo!
This seems to be the perspective pushed in this thread. "This is how it is in the West, but when you come over here, you have to assimilate into our cultural view of the symbol we stole from you!" How delightfully condescending.

Nobody is fucking saying that. :rolleyes:

[Pirate Utopian]

The Swastika does look cool, though. Admit it. Before you learned about the Holocaust, you thought the Swastika looked cool and drew pictures of it everywhere.
True I was suspended for 3 days in primary school for drawing a swastika on the chalkboard, I just thought it looked cool and for some reason it shocked my catholic teachers.

[Shader]

Damn, the internet is full of anti-socialist pro-usa propaganda, claiming nazism Stalinism and Maoism is the same... Just be carefull. I found this picture, i'm not sure if it is real or not. But who cares? It's just a symbol.
Image: rexcurry.net/ussr-socialist-swastika1919-1920cav-red-army-prikaz.jpg
Anti-communist source: rexcurry.net/ussr-socialist-swastika-cccp-sssr.html (Scroll down)

[Liberte ou la Mort]

I've been convinced - I'm going to reclaim the swastika.

Why should a symbol have to pay the bill of 6,000,000 dead when it was really all done by men!

I have a brilliant idea - I'm going to get a really big swastika printed on my t-shirt and I'm going to walk through downtown beaming with pride. If I happen to come across a group of people who wish to do my person harm because I bear such a symbol I will simply explain to them that this symbol has been used by many indigenous cultures to represent a multitude of socio-cultural meanings.

When and if they recover my body I would prefer to be buried and not cremated as I was brought up catholic.

If they recover my body

[BobKKKindle$]

It seems pretty obvious that what is being referred to here is usage in the western worldLarge numbers of people who are originally of Asian descent now live in what you describe as the "western world" and so banning the swastika in these countries would also have a negative impact on the ability of these groups to follow and sustain their religious practices. The effect of the ban in this respect is important when we consider that one of the main political trends in the "western world" is to try and restrict the cultural freedom of immigrant communities on the pretext that doing so is necessary to encourage social cohesion and prevent religious extremism from gaining a large following within these communities - the most notable outcome of this trend is that women are now being denied the right to wear the hijab, especially in France which has one of the largest Muslim communities in the whole of Europe due to sustained immigration from the countries which used to be part of the French empire, and students are not allowed to wear the hijab in school. If the swastika is banned this will signify a further assault on the cultural freedom of the immigrant population, and this is why any proposed ban needs to be fought by communists around the world.

However, even if there was no chance of a ban having an impact on immigrant communities, it would still be necessary to fight against the threat of banning. It has not yet been explained why it is actually necessary to ban the swastika, as although everyone accepts that the swastika has been used as a symbol of hate and is closely associated with the Nazi regime, at least in some parts of the world, there is no reason to assume that banning the swastika would actually prevent people from turning to Nazi ideology, and it could be argued that the exact reverse would happen, and more people would become receptive to Nazi ideas. Germany is one of the countries which has already implemented a ban on the use of all Nazi symbols and it is even illegal to own a copy of 'Mein Kampf' and yet Germany also has a powerful fascist movement in the form of the NPD, which has recently threatened to make electoral gains in local elections, and despite a state attempt to ban the party in 2003, currently has 12 representatives in the Saxony state parliament, after winning almost ten percent of the vote there in 2004. What so many people in this thread fail to grasp is that the more they try to censor or put down fascism by using the power of the state to prevent people from using Nazi symbols, the more they risk reinforcing its reputation as a protest movement for free speech and against the discredited old politics.

My position is as follows: The swastika should not be banned, anyone should be allowed the swastika, including Nazis.

[BobKKKindle$]

Possibly the funniest thing I have heard in a long time, 12 million...

Close to 12 million people did die during the course of the Holocaust. Jewish people were by far the largest group which suffered persecution under the Nazi regime but they "only" accounted for around half of the total deaths - the Nazis also carried out extermination programs against other groups which were seen as incompatible with their ideas, including homosexuals, the disabled population, other "inferior" ethnic groups within Germany such as the gypsies, as well as political opponents such as communists and proponents of sexual liberation. When these deaths are counted as part of the death toll resulting from the Holocaust, the total number of deaths comes close to 12 million.

[Shader]

Why would you want to reclaim a symbol that was the image that sent 12 million prisoners to their death?

Possibly the funniest thing I have heard in a long time, 12 million...
12 million and counting...

By the way I saw the Alexander Sarcophagus (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Sarcophagus) with my own eyes, it had swastikas!!! :laugh:

[bcbm]

It has not yet been explained why it is actually necessary to ban the swastika

Possibly because this thread is not about banning it and nobody has even suggested banning it- you pulled it out your ass.

[Code1337]

The swastika will never and should never be recovered. It would disrespectful to all the people that died in the Holocaust.

[BobKKKindle$]

Possibly because this thread is not about banning it and nobody has even suggested banning it- you pulled it out your ass.

Yes, I didn't read through the thread carefully enough - but there's no need to get aggressive.

[Gleb]

The swastika will never and should never be recovered. It would disrespectful to all the people that died in the Holocaust.

Damned be those fucking (snip) and their offensive millenial traditions. Damned be.

edited by Holden

[Revy]

I think we can separate what is clearly a nazi swastika and what is clearly a religious swastika.

What Prince Harry wore to the party was obviously Nazi. However, you can not apply that to every usage of the symbol.

For these people, they see the symbol as part of their culture, their religion. For them it has nothing to do with Nazism.

If a socialist were to convert to a religion that used the swastika, it would not be ironic or contradictory, because that is how the symbol was used always. If the swastika had been invented by Hitler, there would be no discussion or debate on this issue. But this is a symbol that has been used by many cultures on all continents by people of all skin tones and many different ethnicities. Is it so wrong to reclaim what was theirs? In these areas of the world even the Communist Parties (in India and Nepal) have used the swastika. Believe it, it's true.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Well, recently in this part of Canada, there' been some controversy over selling/wearing of a scarf, if I remember right it's called the "keffiyeh", as a fashion accessory. This scarf was often worn by Yasser Arafat and others as a display of support for the Palestinian struggle against Israel. Palestinians are asking people, not necessarily to stop wearing the scarf, but to at least take time to learn about the scarf's significance to Palestinian culture.
Should Zionists then call for a ban of this scarf? There are somewhat different circumstances that perhaps don't make this the best example, given the nature and history of Zionism, but the point is that the fact of the different significance of the symbol for people with different backgrounds enough to warrant outlawing said symbol?
Getting back to the swastika, as far as I'm aware there are clear ways to distinguish between the Nazi swastika and others, but in any case, perhaps this squabbling over symbols is just a distraction from the real issues at hand in a world of global exploitation of workers, destitution, war, etc.
I suppose I'm on the fence about this.

[bcbm]

Yes, I didn't read through the thread carefully enough - but there's no need to get aggressive.

When people continually miss the point and basically call everyone racists it makes me a bit snippy (not just talking about you).

[JimmyJazz]

Given what most people's impression of communism is these days, should we abandon the hammer and the sickle, the red star, etc.? I commonly hear people outraged that we have not abandoned the same symbols used by Stalin and friends. Keep in mind I'm not trying to start any "Stalin: Baby Eater or Socialist Hero?" debates, merely trying to approach the situation from the same perspective.

The H&S doesn't mean "communism", it represents the Bolshevik attempt to create an alliance of proletarians and peasantry. It's very specific.

[Black Dagger]

I think we can separate what is clearly a nazi swastika and what is clearly a religious swastika.

What Prince Harry wore to the party was obviously Nazi. However, you can not apply that to every usage of the symbol.

For these people, they see the symbol as part of their culture, their religion. For them it has nothing to do with Nazism.

If a socialist were to convert to a religion that used the swastika, it would not be ironic or contradictory, because that is how the symbol was used always. If the swastika had been invented by Hitler, there would be no discussion or debate on this issue. But this is a symbol that has been used by many cultures on all continents by people of all skin tones and many different ethnicities.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you here, so??? Mujer Libre said the same thing on the previous page!


Is it so wrong to reclaim what was theirs? In these areas of the world even the Communist Parties (in India and Nepal) have used the swastika. Believe it, it's true

But in places were non-nazi 'swastikas' are used there isn't a stigma attached to these symbols, so no one needs to 'reclaim' anything?

[Rosa Provokateur]

I say reclaim in, reclaiming sybols can be done and should be done. The best example is the chi-rho or labarum; it was originally used to represent Constantine's empire and christianity as the state-religion, now it's used to represent the un-organized faith and christianity outside the mainstream.

Another example is the cross; the Romans used it to represent oppression and brutality but now it's closer to representing hope and compassion so long as it isnt used only by those who would abuse it.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Another thought I just had. Reclaiming it for it's original meaning would disarm the neo-nazi movement in a huge way, the day they're not able to use it to stir up anger is the day we've nutered them.

[Black Dagger]

But the nazi 'swastika' is not the same as the historic religious/cultural symbols from which it drew inspiration- and the use of those symbols is still common place, so again - there really is nothing to 'reclaim'.

[Module]

Moved posts on the holocaust to a new thread in Opposing Ideologies.
Click (http://www.revleft.com/vb/holocaust-t95480/index.html?t=95480)

[Melbourne Lefty]

but due to the fact it is related with the nazis and the horrors of fascism i think it shouldnt be attempted to be reclaimed, it would be disrespectful to do it


That is a very eurocentric view.

People in Korea and India still use the symbol frequently. Are you going to ask them to stop?

[bcbm]

That is a very eurocentric view.

People in Korea and India still use the symbol frequently. Are you going to ask them to stop?

Read. The. Thread.:rolleyes:

[DesertShark]

A couple days ago was Pearl Harbor Day so the History Channel had a bunch of shows on about the Nazis and Hitler. Something that I thought was very interesting was that Hitler sent out many expeditions (through Asia, Africa, and South America) to find the swastika being used in other places. He wanted to find it in other places to prove that white people had been everywhere and influenced people all over the world. To him the swastika had always been (throughout history) a representation of white superiority and he was set out to prove it. When thought about in this manner, it seems almost impossible to reclaim.

On a side note: from the same show, they talked about Hitler's rise to power. He had a close friend and mystic that he relied upon to help get himself into power. This mystic was right about everything and Hitler did everything the mystic told him to do. Then once in power, Hitler had his mystic friend killed because he was Jewish.

-DS

[Plagueround]

The H&S doesn't mean "communism", it represents the Bolshevik attempt to create an alliance of proletarians and peasantry. It's very specific.

I'm aware of the origins, but the question remains. Given what people now think of these symbols, many of which are viewed with just as much disdain as the swastika, should we abandon them outright, or teach people of their true and intended meaning?

[Pirate Utopian]

Abandon.
Why give two shits about a symbol when it's about the ideas behind it?

[Bilan]

^^ Missed the point.
Really, this is a non-issue.