View Full Version : BBC incite religious hatred - Spooky?
peaccenicked
11th June 2003, 12:16
http://www.femail.co.uk/pages/standard/art...08&in_page_id=2 (http://www.femail.co.uk/pages/standard/article.html?in_article_id=184108&in_page_id=2)
I watched the program, it was an outrageous smear on the divisions in the Muslims living in Britain.
You seem to be saying that the BBC sprayed the graffiti on when they did not!
I did not see the program!
peaccenicked
11th June 2003, 12:25
INCITE A RIOT
INCITE A RIOT - Urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts. 18 USC
Do you even know what the legal definition of a riot is?
Invader Zim
11th June 2003, 13:31
I however did see the program. It wasnt particularly impressive, it was just your typical spy drama, it even had the gadgets and woman. Not partularly impressive MI5 version of James Bond.
It was not however racist in the least, it mearly created a Drama about some extreamist muslims, which I hasten to add do exist, planning to have a teenager blow him self up in a suicide attack. Which is not exactly far from the truth in some countrys at the moment. I cannot see how it is remotly racist. Boring yes racist no.
I watched the program, it was an outrageous smear on the divisions in the Muslims living in Britain.
Not particularly, it actually showed muslims condeming the extreamists, showing that the majority dispise such acts of terroism.
INCITE A RIOT
INCITE A RIOT - Urging or instigating other persons to riot, but shall not be deemed to mean the mere oral or written (1) advocacy of ideas or (2) expression of belief, not involving advocacy of any act or acts of violence or assertion of the rightness of, or the right to commit, any such act or acts. 18 USC
The person commited an act of Graffiti not riot, for a start.
So if I now was suddenly empowered by your writtings in these two BBC threds to hate the BBC and go to a random wall and spray paint "I hate the BBC" over it, you would have insited a riot. Can you not see the stupidity of your own comments?
Moskitto
11th June 2003, 13:36
RAM, he said Incites you're inciting me to kill you, does that mean you're going to commit suicide? No, it means your actions are encouraging me to kill you. The peaccenicked claimed the program incited the grafiti, that means the BBCs actions encouraged it, not the BBC did it themselves, FOOL.
peaccenicked
11th June 2003, 14:01
"I love the BBC'' AK47. The Drama gave the impression that there was a significant number of potential suicide bombers organised in Mosques. There is a difference between racial and racist hatred. It was a Mosque that was attacked.
Her Majestys loyal spin doctors cant cover up that it was an inciteful piece of propagandistic crap which the whole series is, in that it tries to make heroes out of the intelligence services who get their best kicks out of keeping tabs on trade unionists and peace activists.
The BBC at excutive level are a bunch of elitist servants of the British establishment who serve the class interests of the British ruling class,
They do this by pretending that the propaganda they give is impartial and unbiased. I saw through them when I was seven. I hated them then and I will continue to do so untill the BBC stops spinning for big business and reports the truth about whats really going on in our countries and the rest of the world.
Why is not cover human rights abuse in Turkey,Saudi Araba and many of the 100 torturing nations that have mostly ties to western interests,. Why does not amnesty international have a weekly programme..
Get Real.
Quote: from Moskitto on 1:36 pm on June 11, 2003
RAM, he said Incites you're inciting me to kill you, does that mean you're going to commit suicide? No, it means your actions are encouraging me to kill you. The peaccenicked claimed the program incited the grafiti, that means the BBCs actions encouraged it, not the BBC did it themselves, FOOL.
I based my statement on the article!
Although I can see how the program encourages the grafiti to happen
(Edited by RAM at 2:15 pm on June 11, 2003)
Err the BBC do a lot of specialist programming e.g. they have gone inside the MOD in war stories which took a year of negotations to do so. Here are some of there programes on BBC NEWS 24
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/bbc_...53.stm#hardtalk (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/bbc_news_24/1369353.stm#hardtalk)
Quote: from peaccenicked on 2:01 pm on June 11, 2003
"I love the BBC'' AK47. The Drama gave the impression that there was a significant number of potential suicide bombers organised in Mosques. There is a difference between racial and racist hatred. It was a Mosque that was attacked.
Her Majestys loyal spin doctors cant cover up that it was an inciteful piece of propagandistic crap which the whole series is, in that it tries to make heroes out of the intelligence services who get their best kicks out of keeping tabs on trade unionists and peace activists.
The BBC at excutive level are a bunch of elitist servants of the British establishment who serve the class interests of the British ruling class,
They do this by pretending that the propaganda they give is impartial and unbiased. I saw through them when I was seven. I hated them then and I will continue to do so untill the BBC stops spinning for big business and reports the truth about whats really going on in our countries and the rest of the world.
Why is not cover human rights abuse in Turkey,Saudi Araba and many of the 100 torturing nations that have mostly ties to western interests,. Why does not amnesty international have a weekly programme..
Get Real.
Can you name a tv station that does what you wanted?
peaccenicked
11th June 2003, 14:15
No, that is one of the reasons I am international socialist
Well then you are talking out of you arse!
If you can't name a tv station that does what you want then why complain about the BBC then? Doesen't that mean that all tv sations are guilty. Ok then why don't you work for a tv station then and try and chnage things rather than posting on here!
Invader Zim
11th June 2003, 14:25
Quote: from peaccenicked on 2:01 pm on June 11, 2003
"I love the BBC'' AK47. The Drama gave the impression that there was a significant number of potential suicide bombers organised in Mosques. There is a difference between racial and racist hatred. It was a Mosque that was attacked.
Her Majestys loyal spin doctors cant cover up that it was an inciteful piece of propagandistic crap which the whole series is, in that it tries to make heroes out of the intelligence services who get their best kicks out of keeping tabs on trade unionists and peace activists.
The BBC at excutive level are a bunch of elitist servants of the British establishment who serve the class interests of the British ruling class,
They do this by pretending that the propaganda they give is impartial and unbiased. I saw through them when I was seven. I hated them then and I will continue to do so untill the BBC stops spinning for big business and reports the truth about whats really going on in our countries and the rest of the world.
Why is not cover human rights abuse in Turkey,Saudi Araba and many of the 100 torturing nations that have mostly ties to western interests,. Why does not amnesty international have a weekly programme..
Get Real.
"I love the BBC'' AK47
Ahh yes petty insults agian, I realise that you have no argument really but do you really want to further dammage your case by showing your childish nature?
The Drama gave the impression that there was a significant number of potential suicide bombers organised in Mosques.
No it didn't . Simple as that, if you were so much of a fool to misinterprit what it said and did than thats your problem. It showed about 10 people plotting a terrorist act. 10 out of however many million muslims in this country, does not constitue any thing you have said.
Her Majestys loyal spin doctors cant cover up that it was an inciteful piece of propagandistic crap which the whole series is, in that it tries to make heroes out of the intelligence services who get their best kicks out of keeping tabs on trade unionists and peace activists.
Its just a story, like like James Bond, people watch it because they think it will be good and its broadcast to boost the BBC's dropping ratings. It may be propaganda, but just about any program can be construed to be propaganda. I also dont really care I dont even particularly like the program, but please name a different channel which does not show the same sort of shit? Why mark out the BBC as the only channel which broadcats the occasional nugget of shit.
The BBC at excutive level are a bunch of elitist servants of the British establishment who serve the class interests of the British ruling class,
:sigh: I dont really care, they make good programs that I enjoy watching. But they also make and or broadcast programs which definatly anti establishment and broadcast them. Try watching a program called the new states man, or Yes minister, or Spitting Image.
If ypou actually bothered to watch some of these programs then you would see what bullshit you say.
Also look at the anti establishment films the broadcast such as Fight Club etc.
Then compair the BBC to Soviot broadcasting during the war or to USA TV channels , and you would actually see the massive differance.
Quote: from AK47 on 2:25 pm on June 11, 2003
Quote: from peaccenicked on 2:01 pm on June 11, 2003
"I love the BBC'' AK47. The Drama gave the impression that there was a significant number of potential suicide bombers organised in Mosques. There is a difference between racial and racist hatred. It was a Mosque that was attacked.
Her Majestys loyal spin doctors cant cover up that it was an inciteful piece of propagandistic crap which the whole series is, in that it tries to make heroes out of the intelligence services who get their best kicks out of keeping tabs on trade unionists and peace activists.
The BBC at excutive level are a bunch of elitist servants of the British establishment who serve the class interests of the British ruling class,
They do this by pretending that the propaganda they give is impartial and unbiased. I saw through them when I was seven. I hated them then and I will continue to do so untill the BBC stops spinning for big business and reports the truth about whats really going on in our countries and the rest of the world.
Why is not cover human rights abuse in Turkey,Saudi Araba and many of the 100 torturing nations that have mostly ties to western interests,. Why does not amnesty international have a weekly programme..
Get Real.
"I love the BBC'' AK47
Ahh yes petty insults agian, I realise that you have no argument really but do you really want to further dammage your case by showing your childish nature?
The Drama gave the impression that there was a significant number of potential suicide bombers organised in Mosques.
No it didn't . Simple as that, if you were so much of a fool to misinterprit what it said and did than thats your problem. It showed about 10 people plotting a terrorist act. 10 out of however many million muslims in this country, does not constitue any thing you have said.
Her Majestys loyal spin doctors cant cover up that it was an inciteful piece of propagandistic crap which the whole series is, in that it tries to make heroes out of the intelligence services who get their best kicks out of keeping tabs on trade unionists and peace activists.
Its just a story, like like James Bond, people watch it because they think it will be good and its broadcast to boost the BBC's dropping ratings. It may be propaganda, but just about any program can be construed to be propaganda. I also dont really care I dont even particularly like the program, but please name a different channel which does not show the same sort of shit? Why mark out the BBC as the only channel which broadcats the occasional nugget of shit.
The BBC at excutive level are a bunch of elitist servants of the British establishment who serve the class interests of the British ruling class,
:sigh: I dont really care, they make good programs that I enjoy watching. But they also make and or broadcast programs which definatly anti establishment and broadcast them. Try watching a program called the new states man, or Yes minister, or Spitting Image.
If ypou actually bothered to watch some of these programs then you would see what bullshit you say.
Also look at the anti establishment films the broadcast such as Fight Club etc.
Then compair the BBC to Soviot broadcasting during the war or to USA TV channels , and you would actually see the massive differance.
The BBC are world famous and I don't think if you were to ask people why the bbc is famous that they would say cos of the properganda!
BBC programes have won tv awards at award ceromonies also you are failing to give a wothy rivral of the BBC whihc is better and is unbiased so your argument is flawed and are comparing the bbc with none and by defintion that cannot happen!
peaccenicked
11th June 2003, 15:03
AK your blind defence of the BBC is really sad, if there was 10 extremists in every Mosque in the country that
would make 7,000 extremists. It did not say that directly
but it could and perhaps did leave that impression on those who attacked the mosque with graffitti.
You dont want to consider that possibility. You would rather whitewash it.
'sigh: I dont really care, they make good programs that I enjoy watching. But they also make and or broadcast programs which definatly anti establishment and broadcast them. Try watching a program called the new states man, or Yes minister, or Spitting Image. ''
You dont really care what these bastards are like or what they do or not do to continue this crappy system of capitalism/imperialism.
The Newstatesman was a lightweight hitters as was Yes minister and Spitting image.
The would not put reallly heaving hitting material on TV
at least not very often. Channel four is much better in this area, and even then is so minimal that is effect is merely that of a token to satire.
You should go and see some plays that they wont show on telly.
The BBC shows many films most of the soft,sane respectable. The most hard hitting things on the British media are hard hitting critiques of other countries horribble practices. The british media want us to believe that we live in the best country in the world. You are much like the american patriots on this site who live in the best country in the world because the were born in it.
It is pure dross and humbug.
The BBC is world famous becouse it is giant media corporate like CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS, AOL, ITV.
They are famous so is coca cola that does not mean it not just over hyped fizzy water.
The BBC are a part of what Moskitto calls the 'worlds most complicated dictatorship'
It is an instrument of manufacturing consent and keep mental slavery alive.
BBC Newsnight is the news program of the year!
Invader Zim
11th June 2003, 15:37
Quote: from peaccenicked on 3:03 pm on June 11, 2003
AK your blind defence of the BBC is really sad, if there was 10 extremists in every Mosque in the country that
would make 7,000 extremists. It did not say that directly
but it could and perhaps did leave that impression on those who attacked the mosque with graffitti.
You dont want to consider that possibility. You would rather whitewash it.
'sigh: I dont really care, they make good programs that I enjoy watching. But they also make and or broadcast programs which definatly anti establishment and broadcast them. Try watching a program called the new states man, or Yes minister, or Spitting Image. ''
You dont really care what these bastards are like or what they do or not do to continue this crappy system of capitalism/imperialism.
The Newstatesman was a lightweight hitters as was Yes minister and Spitting image.
The would not put reallly heaving hitting material on TV
at least not very often. Channel four is much better in this area, and even then is so minimal that is effect is merely that of a token to satire.
You should go and see some plays that they wont show on telly.
The BBC shows many films most of the soft,sane respectable. The most hard hitting things on the British media are hard hitting critiques of other countries horribble practices. The british media want us to believe that we live in the best country in the world. You are much like the american patriots on this site who live in the best country in the world because the were born in it.
It is pure dross and humbug.
The BBC is world famous becouse it is giant media corporate like CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS, AOL, ITV.
They are famous so is coca cola that does not mean it not just over hyped fizzy water.
The BBC are a part of what Moskitto calls the 'worlds most complicated dictatorship'
It is an instrument of manufacturing consent and keep mental slavery alive.
AK your blind defence of the BBC is really sad, if there was 10 extremists in every Mosque in the country that
would make 7,000 extremists. It did not say that directly
but it could and perhaps did leave that impression on those who attacked the mosque with graffitti.
The program made no referance to other Mosques having extreamist elements, so why do you interprit that it does? the site you posted also made referance to a comment made stating that there was no link between the spooks program and the attack of Grafitti on that Mosque. I am quite sure that it was not a devilish plot laid down by the BBC to deliberatly have Mosques attacked.
You dont really care what these bastards are like or what they do or not do to continue this crappy system of capitalism/imperialism.
As has already been established they dont, they would hardly show programs that attack the British way of life such as my family if they did. They also would not allow programs such as Yes Minister to gain Air time if they did.
Im not saying that the BBC are completely with out fault and that they do broadcast propaganda or sometimes just shitty programs, however I see no reason to single tham out as evil capitalist oppressors, when they are considerably better and of higher quality than any other channel I have access to. Though be it just the 4 terretial channels, I dont even get channel 5. Not that im going to be missing much.
The Newstatesman was a lightweight hitters as was Yes minister and Spitting image
Actually no, they were some of the most popular comedys Britain has ever prodused, Yes Minister In the top 5 most popular. They also had many underlying messages more so than any other comedy I can think of with the possible exception of MASH and Blackadder Series 4. If you can think of a program which casts a dimmer light on British life and politics (with the exception of Bremner Bird and Fortune a piece of Genius) then I am all ears.
I agree that there are probalems with British TV however you massivly exagerate the problems.
peaccenicked
11th June 2003, 16:11
When you paint a picture, it is supposed to tell a thousand words. TV is focussed it has a captive audience, if it is chosen to be watched :but people depend on it for news, information, and entertainment.
Dramas are full of political content. Scripts are sent in, some get through the process of editing and are produced. The broadcaster is ultimately responsible to the public. The drama, spooks represents what is acceptable to the BBC as useful to public life.
The climate in the west since 9/11 is one of creating fear and attacking civil liberties, the airwaves are tied up through security checks. The Blair government sends out the army preemtively on the last day of a muslim festival. There is an air of uneasiness throughout the western world among muslims who believe that they have been collectively cast into suspicion. The BBC produces a drama which goes into delicate place in ham fisted manner.
Pictures are complicated they are open to many interpretations. The BBC are trained well enough to know this. Yet what is the result a Moisque gets vandalised because it only half covers the issues and leaves people to fill in the blanks. It is irresponsible, in my view, to leave prejudiced and fearful people to come to their own irrational conclusions in the current climate with exploring the ridiculous scenario of a series of suicide Bombings in the UK.
This fear producing programme manufactured hate.
Only someone who delibrately closes their eyes to the true nature of things would not be concerned.
Moskitto
11th June 2003, 17:09
The Drama gave the impression that there was a significant number of potential suicide bombers organised in Mosques.
If that's the way you percieved the program then you view the world the same way as the grafittiers.
Moskitto
11th June 2003, 17:13
oh, and if you can't seperate fact (ie. real mosques, real muslims) from fiction (ie. TV program where they find suicide bombers in a mosque) then you shouldn't be watching television, or reading books, or using the internet, or playing computer games.
Quote: from Moskitto on 5:13 pm on June 11, 2003
oh, and if you can't seperate fact (ie. real mosques, real muslims) from fiction (ie. TV program where they find suicide bombers in a mosque) then you shouldn't be watching television, or reading books, or using the internet, or playing computer games.
Tabliod newspapers have trouble doing that!
Invader Zim
11th June 2003, 17:26
Quote: from Moskitto on 5:13 pm on June 11, 2003
oh, and if you can't seperate fact (ie. real mosques, real muslims) from fiction (ie. TV program where they find suicide bombers in a mosque) then you shouldn't be watching television, or reading books, or using the internet, or playing computer games.
I would agree whole heartedly with that.
peaccenicked
11th June 2003, 17:57
Utterly take for instance the people who supported the war they could not seperate fact from fiction.
They told us everything the TV news told us. A mixture of Pentagon lies and embedded journalists who did not see anything much of the war other than what they were told to see.
They even came away with the most outrageoues lie of them all that this was a war of liberation as if the US/UK
are the military wing of amnesty international. This is so ignorant of mass murder and daily torture in other countries it is unbelievable.
These people who supported the war should be put into an institution that helps to deprogramme people from cult.
The war party cult should be banned from watching the TV or reading only pro war tabloids.
The British and US population are the laughing stock of the rest of the world.
Quote: from peaccenicked on 5:57 pm on June 11, 2003
Utterly take for instance the people who supported the war they could not seperate fact from fiction.
They told us everything the TV news told us. A mixture of Pentagon lies and embedded journalists who did not see anything much of the war other than what they were told to see.
They even came away with the most outrageoues lie of them all that this was a war of liberation as if the US/UK
are the military wing of amnesty international. This is so ignorant of mass murder and daily torture in other countries it is unbelievable.
These people who supported the war should be put into an institution that helps to deprogramme people from cult.
The war party cult should be banned from watching the TV or reading only pro war tabloids.
The British and US population are the laughing stock of the rest of the world.
Do you have a source for this laughing stock claim?
El Che
11th June 2003, 18:59
Peacceniked, if you want my advice, don`t waste your latin on these two.
Quote: from AK47 on 3:37 pm on June 11, 2003
Quote: from peaccenicked on 3:03 pm on June 11, 2003
AK your blind defence of the BBC is really sad, if there was 10 extremists in every Mosque in the country that
would make 7,000 extremists. It did not say that directly
but it could and perhaps did leave that impression on those who attacked the mosque with graffitti.
You dont want to consider that possibility. You would rather whitewash it.
'sigh: I dont really care, they make good programs that I enjoy watching. But they also make and or broadcast programs which definatly anti establishment and broadcast them. Try watching a program called the new states man, or Yes minister, or Spitting Image. ''
You dont really care what these bastards are like or what they do or not do to continue this crappy system of capitalism/imperialism.
The Newstatesman was a lightweight hitters as was Yes minister and Spitting image.
The would not put reallly heaving hitting material on TV
at least not very often. Channel four is much better in this area, and even then is so minimal that is effect is merely that of a token to satire.
You should go and see some plays that they wont show on telly.
The BBC shows many films most of the soft,sane respectable. The most hard hitting things on the British media are hard hitting critiques of other countries horribble practices. The british media want us to believe that we live in the best country in the world. You are much like the american patriots on this site who live in the best country in the world because the were born in it.
It is pure dross and humbug.
The BBC is world famous becouse it is giant media corporate like CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS, AOL, ITV.
They are famous so is coca cola that does not mean it not just over hyped fizzy water.
The BBC are a part of what Moskitto calls the 'worlds most complicated dictatorship'
It is an instrument of manufacturing consent and keep mental slavery alive.
AK your blind defence of the BBC is really sad, if there was 10 extremists in every Mosque in the country that
would make 7,000 extremists. It did not say that directly
but it could and perhaps did leave that impression on those who attacked the mosque with graffitti.
The program made no referance to other Mosques having extreamist elements, so why do you interprit that it does? the site you posted also made referance to a comment made stating that there was no link between the spooks program and the attack of Grafitti on that Mosque. I am quite sure that it was not a devilish plot laid down by the BBC to deliberatly have Mosques attacked.
You dont really care what these bastards are like or what they do or not do to continue this crappy system of capitalism/imperialism.
As has already been established they dont, they would hardly show programs that attack the British way of life such as my family if they did. They also would not allow programs such as Yes Minister to gain Air time if they did.
Im not saying that the BBC are completely with out fault and that they do broadcast propaganda or sometimes just shitty programs, however I see no reason to single tham out as evil capitalist oppressors, when they are considerably better and of higher quality than any other channel I have access to. Though be it just the 4 terretial channels, I dont even get channel 5. Not that im going to be missing much.
The Newstatesman was a lightweight hitters as was Yes minister and Spitting image
Actually no, they were some of the most popular comedys Britain has ever prodused, Yes Minister In the top 5 most popular. They also had many underlying messages more so than any other comedy I can think of with the possible exception of MASH and Blackadder Series 4. If you can think of a program which casts a dimmer light on British life and politics (with the exception of Bremner Bird and Fortune a piece of Genius) then I am all ears.
I agree that there are probalems with British TV however you massivly exagerate the problems.
Here is an example of Bremner, Bird and Fortune: -
JOHN FORTUNE:
George Parr, you’re a senior planner at the Ministry of Defence?
JOHN BIRD:
I am yes.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Yes. And you must be very preoccupied at the moment with the possible war against Iraq.
JOHN BIRD:
We’re thrilled. We’re looking forward to it tremendously. Of course it’s what we do war. Defence it the name, attack is the game, that’s our motto.
JOHN FORTUNE:
So you must be feverishly making preparations at the moment?
JOHN BIRD:
Oh we are, because of course it’s our job to make sure that our soldiers have got the best possible equipment. And it’s fine tuned to a peak of perfection, and we’ve been working tremendously hard on that. Last year for example we had a huge military exercise. In fact the biggest deployment of British troops since the Gulf War in, in the Persian Gulf in Oman.
JOHN FORTUNE:
In Oman?
JOHN BIRD:
Yes.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Of course this was operation Swift Sword.
JOHN BIRD:
That’s right, exactly.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Wasn’t it? And did you choose Oman because the terrain and the climate were very similar to Iraq?
JOHN BIRD:
Yes, yes, in fact it’s very close to Iraq of course.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Yes it is.
JOHN BIRD:
And so it was tremendously useful.
JOHN FORTUNE:
And was the operation a success?
JOHN BIRD:
A tremendous success, yes. We learnt an enormous amount.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Such as?
JOHN BIRD:
Well we learnt never to get into one of our helicopters. Our helicopters are of course designed for operations in Northern Europe.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Of course yes.
JOHN BIRD:
And um, under those conditions, normal European conditions the rotor blades, you know, the things that go round to keep it up, they have a life expectancy of about 500 hours. Now we found in Oman, in desert conditions, this was somewhat reduced.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Reduced to what?
JOHN BIRD:
27 hours.
JOHN FORTUNE:
And did this come as a surprise?
JOHN BIRD:
It did to the pilots.
APPLAUSE
JOHN BIRD:
And um, we also had similar problems with the Challengers.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Oh the Challenger tank. This is the army’s main battle tank of course.
JOHN BIRD:
The main battle tank, yes, I mean a very very formidable weapon. Particularly when it’s able to move about.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Was it not able to move about in Oman?
JOHN BIRD:
Well I mean, one of the most interesting things that we discovered out there in Oman was that in the deserts of the Middle East, you can at times get large quantities of sand and
JOHN FORTUNE:
I believe you often do.
JOHN BIRD:
Do you? Yes. Well certainly our experience supports that theory. And um, what happens is that the sand, you see, gets into the air filters of the Challenger tanks, you see, and clogs them up. Now of course the Challenger tank is designed for operations in Northern Europe, and under those conditions an air filter would be expected to last about a year. Once again in the desert this is slightly reduced.
JOHN FORTUNE:
To what?
JOHN BIRD:
4 hours.
JOHN FORTUNE:
So you couldn’t use the tanks?
JOHN BIRD:
No no, no. Not for shooting people and moving about in them. No no. For small cocktail parties and that sort of thing. But um, apart from the prevalence of sand, the heat is another thing you get in the deserts of the Middle East. In fact some of our older vehicles, the engines got so hot the only way to keep them running was to turn on the heaters in the cabs, full on. But then the drivers got so hot, they had to get out every few minutes.
JOHN FORTUNE:
It doesn’t sound very efficient.
JOHN BIRD:
Well no, but you have to remember that these vehicles were designed for operations in Northern Europe.
JOHN FORTUNE:
In Northern Europe. Yes. But of course you had other problems with the army’s assault rifle, rather well publicised problems, with the sand and the dust getting into the mechanism and jamming the gun.
JOHN BIRD:
Yes well, of course there has been some very unfortunate negative publicity about this gun, the AS80-A2 is standard issue British rifle, it’s a lethal weapon. Particularly to anybody trying to fire it. It is, it is completely reliable provided you take elementary precautions. Every time you fire it you take it apart and oil it.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Of course in the middle of the battle there wouldn’t really be time to do that would there?
JOHN BIRD:
Oh you have to find time. You have to find time. It’s the boredom you see, soldiers don’t like, you know, the desert, it’s very very hot, and the sand, and the, you know, we found that even the uniforms are too heavy. The tents were too hot, and in Oman the soldier’s boots melted.
JOHN FORTUNE:
What did you do about that?
JOHN BIRD:
Well we didn’t do anything, we were at home, planning. But what they did, um, was that some of the soldiers could locally buy their own boots.
JOHN FORTUNE:
You’re making this up aren’t you?
JOHN BIRD:
No no. No everything I’m telling you is actually factually true you see.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Well excuse me, General, but it does seem to me that the British Army seems rather ill equipped to fight a battle in the Middle East, because your battle communications system now that didn’t work in Oman did it?
JOHN BIRD:
No, that’s very misleading to say that. Very misleading. It is true it doesn’t work in the desert, but it doesn’t work anywhere else either.
APPLAUSE
JOHN FORTUNE:
Yes precisely. I remember that in Kosovo, soldiers were reduced to relying on their own mobile phones to contact other units.
JOHN BIRD:
Yes, they were, yes. We couldn’t do that in Oman because there isn’t the coverage.
JOHN FORTUNE:
And presumably there wouldn’t be in Iraq either.
JOHN BIRD:
Oh we don’t know. We don’t know. It is possible that Saddam Hussein as well as building up his chemical and biological nuclear capability, is also developing a mobile phone network. Certainly it would be useful if one of our tank commanders could you know, get out of his tank, get on his mobile, and say, you know, my tank has seized up, the rotor blades have fallen off the helicopter, the gun has caught fire, my rifle has jammed and my boots are melting, I await further instructions. And he can send a little picture of himself doing it.
JOHN FORTUNE:
That’s true, absolutely true. So what would you say was the greatest lesson that you learnt in Oman?
JOHN BIRD:
It’s blindingly obvious really. If we are to mount a successful military campaign against Saddam Hussein, we must at all costs, we must get him to come and fight us in Northern Europe. You see, because then all our equipment would work, and er, there’d be a political dividend to you see, because the moment he invaded Poland I mean everybody would agree to attack him you see.
JOHN FORTUNE:
It’s true. But if, if for some reason he can’t be persuaded to invade Poland:
JOHN BIRD:
Yes, a worst case scenario we’re talking about.
JOHN FORTUNE:
A worst case scenario, of course. And the war actually takes place in Iraq, and it’s just ourselves and the Americans, it’s hard to see what sort of military support we’ll be able to offer the Americans.
JOHN BIRD:
Well to be quite frank, I don’t think the Americans are all that bothered about our military support, as you know, I mean they can do all that side of it themselves really.
JOHN FORTUNE:
So what is it that they want from us.
JOHN BIRD:
From us, um, dead bodies I think is what they want. You see I think if a war does occur in Iraq, it’s very important for Washington that not all the bodies in the body bags will be American.
JOHN FORTUNE:
So this is what has been called the blood sacrifice?
JOHN BIRD:
Well exactly. Tony Blair’s words, the blood sacrifice. Yes and Tony Blair himself said, what matters is that we stand up and be counted.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Or in our case, fall down.
JOHN BIRD:
Fall down and be counted, yes.
JOHN FORTUNE:
General, thank you very much indeed.
JOHN BIRD:
It’s been a great pleasure.
JOHN FORTUNE:
Thank you.
APPLAUSE
peaccenicked
14th June 2003, 12:06
RAM > why dont you realise you are completely brainwashed. The idea is to question authority not to thank it for the small concessesions it makes to critical thinking.
El Che, this is my last word on this matter.
Quote: from peaccenicked on 12:06 pm on June 14, 2003
RAM > why dont you realise you are completely brainwashed. The idea is to question authority not to thank it for the small concessesions it makes to critical thinking.
El Che, this is my last word on this matter.
I am NOT brainwashed as to prove that I was not would mean me agreeing wtih you and as I do not thinkt that yor view is the case then I am not going to do that!
peaccenicked
14th June 2003, 14:35
It does not mean agreeing with me but showing that you can question authorith and not just be a braindead brown noser of the State machines broadcasting.
*hmm last word*
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