My friend has major problems

[spice756]

My friend has major problems.

We got talking about New York city had he was saying alot of people in Harlem have a ghetto mentality (what ever that means).

And he was saying racial stereotype that blacks and hispanics are more sexual active and have higher sex drive.Is he racist or what is with the stereotype .

He goes on to say communism and socialism controls every aspect of person life and this was the case in the USSR.

He also goes on about society out of control do to this hip-hop and ghetto look (what ever ghetto look is ).And saying the hippies and punk look of 60's and 70's was rebellions to sociaty.

Anyways how do I debunk those claims.

[Sentinel]

We got talking about New York city had he was saying alot of people in Harlem have a ghetto mentality (what ever that means).Start by asking him to be more precise -- what does he exactly mean by that?


And he was saying racial stereotype that blacks and hispanics are more sexual active and have higher sex drive.Is he racist or what is with the stereotype .Ask him to provide scientific evidence for this assertion. By failing to do so, he proves himself wrong.


He goes on to say communism and socialism controls every aspect of person life and this was the case in the USSR.Point out to him that libertarian, anti-authoritarian socialists and communists, who opposed the way the USSR was run, exist.


He also goes on about society out of control do to this hip-hop and ghetto look (what ever ghetto look is ).Once again, ask him to specify what he means.


And saying the hippies and punk look of 60's and 70's was rebellions to sociaty.This is largely correct. Besides other things they did constitute a rebellion against accepted norms, and in favor of individual autonomy.

This belongs in Discrimination, moved.

[Black Dagger]

Your friend sounds very ignorant.

Sentinel has made a good reply above, i would just stress the importance of deconstructing his assumptions - obviously your friend has taken on-board a lot of stereotypes.

Stereotypes are unsophisticated generalisations that homogenise large groups of people, attributing to them innate group characteristics that can't be logically/rationally justified. With this in mind you should have ample room to draw out the contradictions and assumptions in what they have said simply by probing their views.

You've already done this a bit in your topic post, where you ask 'what is ghetto culture'? As stereotypes are quite simple and provide only the illusion of 'truth' it should be very easy for you to render most of your friends views quite meaningless simply by questioning their assumptions in this way. Asking 'what does that really mean?' Say 'ghetto culture' - will require them to flesh out what is really impossible to substantiate - stereotypes. Each layer of explanation will make their argument weaker and weaker - as stereotypes only appear to 'make sense' when they are not questioned or analysed critically - indeed they're not really designed to cope with much or any critical reflection. So question their assumptions, get them to justify their POV with evidence - they will not be able to - and as a response provide counterexamples - real evidence that contradicts the generalisations they have attempted to pass as 'reason'.

[Organic Revolution]

I think you should first recognize which social grouping s/he comes from, show statistical information that proves the arguments wrong, and then drive the point home with "Show me scientific proof that race exists".

[Dean]

My friend has major problems.

We got talking about New York city had he was saying alot of people in Harlem have a ghetto mentality (what ever that means).

And he was saying racial stereotype that blacks and hispanics are more sexual active and have higher sex drive.Is he racist or what is with the stereotype .

Most people I know have a ghetto mentality. They want to stay within a group of like-minded friends and aquaintinces.

But, I am sure that he wasn't talking about that kind of ghetto mentality, but the racial notion of cultural norms. Unfortunately for his position, indigents of all colors and locales have a wide range of malignant and productive social tendancies. His thinly-veiled racism isn't accurate or subtle, and you should tell him that.


He goes on to say communism and socialism controls every aspect of person life and this was the case in the USSR.
Typical western schoolwork filth. Ask him to cite examples, and to define communism. If the fault with social control of economics is it's centralist character, why should you embrace the more centralized and intrusive system of capital?



He also goes on about society out of control do to this hip-hop and ghetto look (what ever ghetto look is ).And saying the hippies and punk look of 60's and 70's was rebellions to sociaty.

Anyways how do I debunk those claims.
Ridiculous. Those were/are in fact active endorsements of social attitudes. The productiveness/destructiveness of those attitudes may be up in the air, but the notion that they are somehow anti-social tendencies is patently false. This cat is clearly not trying very hard.

[PostAnarchy]

My friend has major problems.

We got talking about New York city had he was saying alot of people in Harlem have a ghetto mentality (what ever that means).

And he was saying racial stereotype that blacks and hispanics are more sexual active and have higher sex drive.Is he racist or what is with the stereotype .

He goes on to say communism and socialism controls every aspect of person life and this was the case in the USSR.

He also goes on about society out of control do to this hip-hop and ghetto look (what ever ghetto look is ).And saying the hippies and punk look of 60's and 70's was rebellions to sociaty.

Anyways how do I debunk those claims.

The short answer is yes your friend is racist...sadly.

The long answer what to do about it is complex as sadly, someone who holds a racist view by definition does not do so by some logical or rational methodology but rather by ignorance and stupid generalizations and stereotypes about certain people that probably comes from either his parents or close relative or friends.

What I would suggest to do is not to hurl insults; no matter how accurate those insults are as people who feel insulted aren't naturally to hear your arguments with an objective point of view. But rather, listen to their response to their reasons and then offer a respectful but firm rebuttal. Let them know that this point of view is racist. Don't call them racist as again as much as it is warranted it will be more likely to turn off the person than anything else. But continually remind the person how racist the particular point of view or opinion is.

If they accept that it is racist and continue to defend it...well....not sure what else to say besides they have a lot of maturing to do and hopefully they will grow out of it.

[Foldered]

Using any stereotype is prejudice in its own right.

[Drace]

He also goes on about society out of control do to this hip-hop and ghetto look (what ever ghetto look is ).

That didn't make much sense :-$


And saying the hippies and punk look of 60's and 70's was rebellions to sociaty.

They were...

[Arreola]

Maybe I'm going to look as a troll, but what is wrong with describing something as "ghetto".

A quick search to "redneck" shows the same type of stereotype and hatred and no one makes a big deal about it.

[Black Dagger]

A quick search of where? Really, could you demonstrate with evidence this apparent double standard?

Side-bar - i'm getting really sick of people signing up to this site to whinge about anti-white racism, yeah...

[Arreola]

A quick search of where? Really, could you demonstrate with evidence this apparent double standard?

A quick search in the forum.
I can't post links, but here are some quotes, there's even a "White Trash" thread and no one denies the existence of "white trash". What is the difference with "ghetto culture"?

England has good looking women, they're just not good looking in an inbred redneck slack-jawed yokel kind of way.


I hate country music, and I hate those inbred redneck motherfuckers that sing it too.

Dammit, those pieces of shit piss me off. I'm going to get Garth Brooks guitar, and I'm going to beat him with it until he stops breathing. Then I'm going to take the strings from the guitar, go to Clinton Black's house and strangle him until he's unconcious. When the fucker wakes up, he'll be tied up, and I'm going to have sex with his wife in front of him. Then I'm going to kill his cat. *Afterwords, I'll burn his house down with him inside.


Sorry but I think of country I think of trailerpark trash complaining about their dead dawgs and why their sis won't give them a blowjob.


I'm sorry about the redneck thing... but, what else can we call them, they can't just be southerners!




Side-bar - i'm getting really sick of people signing up to this site to whinge about anti-white racism, yeah...
Why would you be sick?

[Black Dagger]

Why can't you post links?

Also, i don't understand your point.

On the one hand you say 'what is wrong with describing something as "ghetto"' but on the other you complain about the stereotyping of whites? So do you have a problem with stereotyping poor folks period - or just when whites are concerned?


Why would you be sick?

Because it's absurd? No one here advocates racism - against anyone - white or black - all racism is abhorrent - but to emphasis 'anti-white racism' (in a society built upon white supremacy) or worse, to elevate it as some do - as if it is some kind of huge remarkable problem is to be woefully ignorant of the history and present reality of racism and social oppression in western society. It's the same with people who take up the cross of 'male oppression' in a patriarchal society. They're either incredibly ignorant, stupid or prejudiced. Go read stomfront, it's full of 'anti-white racism' rants - apparently white men are the most opprressed people on earth :rolleyes:

[counterblast]

Ask him to provide scientific evidence for this assertion. By failing to do so, he proves himself wrong.


Whether there is scientific evidence for this claim or not is irrelevant; because the problem isn't that people in the Black or Latina communities might be "more prone to sexual activity"; its that this persons friend racistly presupposes every Black or Latina person fits into this stereotype before he even meets them...

[Arreola]

On the one hand you say 'what is wrong with describing something as "ghetto"' but on the other you complain about the stereotyping of whites? So do you have a problem with stereotyping poor folks period - or just when whites are concerned?
Describing something as "ghetto" is stereotyping poor blacks.
Describing something as "redneck" or "white trash" is stereotyping poor whites.

Everyone in this thread has agreed that describing something as "ghetto" is classist and racist.
Few people in this forum would agree that describing something as "white trash" or "redneck" is something to bother about, concerning the huge amount of post with those terms in the forum.
If that is not a double standard I don't know what is.

The forum tells me to have a certain amount of posts to allow links in my posts, sorry.

[Black Dagger]

Few people in this forum would agree that describing something as "white trash" or "redneck" is something to bother about, concerning the huge amount of post with those terms in the forum.
If that is not a double standard I don't know what is.


I disagree.

I've been posting on this forum for four years, and in that time there have been frequent discussions about the terms 'white trash' and 'redneck', and whether these terms are classist in nature. And contrary to your claim neither term is used with much frequency, and when they are used they are also often contested, 'white trash' in particular (which is obviously classist). 'Redneck' has different connotations to 'white trash' and is not inherently classist - stemming from its usage to attack racist whites, rather than poor whites specifically. Also neither term is inherently racist. Both are probably more commonly used by whites to label other whites, and this reflects class prejudices rather than racial ones.

[TC]

My friend has major problems.
...
Anyways how do I debunk those claims.

Get better friends.

[Black Dagger]

That may be the origins of the term, but are you seriously suggesting that connotation is implied by most (any?) people who use the term today? As i wasn't suggesting that origin of the term was its use against racist whites, but simply that it had this usage (don't you agree?) and is different to 'white trash'. Obviously outside of the US the origins are even less relevant, in australia for example - the term 'redneck' is basically a synonym for a racist person from the country or someone who holds similarly 'old-fashioned' views.

[spice756]

Stereotypes are unsophisticated generalisations that homogenise large groups of people, attributing to them innate group characteristics that can't be logically/rationally justified. With this in mind you should have ample room to draw out the contradictions and assumptions in what they have said simply by probing their views.


Yes I know what the definition of tereotypes is ''oversimplified conception: an oversimplified standardized image of a person or group''

But is stereotypes racist ? And how far does stereotypes have to go?



hip-hop and ghetto look
Start by asking him to be more precise -- what does he exactly mean by that?
ghetto mentality



Sorry I'm not up on the slangs of what is ghetto look ,hip-hop so on.

And because I don't know what it is I cannot have a debate with him.




But, I am sure that he wasn't talking about that kind of ghetto mentality, but the racial notion of cultural norms. Unfortunately for his position, indigents of all colors and locales have a wide range of malignant and productive social tendancies. His thinly-veiled racism isn't accurate or subtle, and you should tell him that.

What is racial notion of cultural norms ? Are you saying he is grouping people on way life than others?



Ridiculous. Those were/are in fact active endorsements of social attitudes


I'm not sure what social attitudes have to do with this thread.



The long answer what to do about it is complex as sadly, someone who holds a racist view by definition does not do so by some logical or rational methodology but rather by ignorance and stupid generalizations and stereotypes about certain people that probably comes from either his parents or close relative or friends.


So how do I find out if he is racist ? He just seems to be using stereotypes.I never heard him say anything he hates blacks or hispanics .

[spice756]

That may be the origins of the term, but are you seriously suggesting that connotation is implied by most (any?) people who use the term today? As i wasn't suggesting that origin of the term was its use against racist whites, but simply that it had this usage (don't you agree?) and is different to 'white trash'. Obviously outside of the US the origins are even less relevant, in australia for example - the term 'redneck' is basically a synonym for a racist person from the country or someone who holds similarly 'old-fashioned' views.


Well rednecks are really hillbilly the old backwards conservative views most of them racist.Anyways I think that is the divination .( not sure)

White trash I don't know what it means.




Describing something as "ghetto" is stereotyping poor blacks.
Describing something as "redneck" or "white trash" is stereotyping poor whites.

The only thing I can find on redneck is.


Redneck refers to a stereotype of usually rural, Caucasian (i.e. white) people of lower socio-economic status in the United States and Canada. Originally limited to the Appalachians, and later the South, the Ozarks, the Great Plains and the Rocky Mountains, this stereotype is now widespread throughout North America. Southern comedian Jeff Foxworthy defines "redneck" as "a glorious lack of sophistication


I still hear people use the term now and than .

[Melbourne Lefty]

He goes on to say communism controls every aspect of person life and this was the case in the USSR.


It was a totalitarian society.

Shit was not good there.



Describing something as "redneck" or "white trash" is stereotyping poor whites.


I dont use it, I dont like the vibe.

I dont attack poor black people as 'trash' so I dont call poor white people 'trash' either.

[The Red Next Door]

what is he talking about?