what do these terms mean now?

[534634634265]

many on this site have at some point proposed different definitions, or altered ones, to the many LOADED words leftist politics tends to get wrapped up in.
i personally think we have some sort of duty to look at and re-evaluate these words, lest all the connotations and annotations and denotations get muddled. i'll bold and italicize the words i think are too loaded.

i think the vanguard is the first group of people to act. the first to take action against the state. thus anyone from a primitivist to a social reformer, anyone taking direct action is acting in a vanguard role.

i think the word state is overly loaded as well. the state is the organization of the people in question. whether its a authoritarian corporate state or a state of primitive living, or even an anarchist federation (still the "state" of being and organization). we need to break the word state of its connotation as a bad or evil thing. the state CAN be an organ of oppression, but it is not definitively such.

i think the word socialist needs to lose its authoritarian overtones. i don't believe in the necessity of a bureaucracy, but i do believe in the importance of societal good. as far as i see it, a socialist should be someone interested in advancing the cause of society, not any authority of -cracy's or -ism's.

seperate thought, but to say that people should exist in a completely consensus based society and to point to non-human interactions as a model is foolish to me. show me animals that exist in a completely non-hierarchical setting?

there are always elders and young that cannot provide for themselves, and there are providers. there are mothers(or fathers) who raise young and their mates that bring in the bread so to speak. even in primitive cultures, there are those whose say in the decisions for the body of people/animals is limited. maybe there exist societies where no one is disenfranchised (that would be nice).

[Dean]

In fear, we invent Gods and Governments, to hide we invent Gods and Governments. Behind lies a truth that's ugly and shallow. Our lives are a journey, confined and narrow.

[534634634265]

i just think if we could somehow depoliticize the words that we use to discuss these things, maybe we could facilitate better communication.:thumbup:

[wasteman]

I lol'd

[RGacky3]

Whenever I hear the word "Vanguard" I stay the hell away, because I know what type of Leftists use that word and I know what comes next.

[ZeroNowhere]

Whenever I hear the word "Vanguard" I stay the hell away, because I know what type of Leftists use that word and I know what comes next.
Hey, the Russian Revolution worked, your type of revolution hasn't worked yet, and is thus impossible. Get away from me, sectarian scum.

[RGacky3]

Hey, the Russian Revolution worked, your type of revolution hasn't worked yet, and is thus impossible. Get away from me, sectarian scum.

No it did'nt work, well, it worked for lenin, and Stalin and Trotsky, but not for communism. Nor did any other Vanguardist revolution after that.

Yes my type of revolution HAS worked, Spain, Ukrain, Chiapas, Paris and so on.

BTW tell the "Because it was'nt worked yet its impossible" to every single innovator ever to exist.

I'm not sectarian, I don't ask people to follow a dude or a group of dudes like vanguardists do.

[534634634265]

I'm not sectarian, I don't ask people to follow a dude or a group of dudes like vanguardists do.

this is what im talking about. your being a judgemental dick without even realizing it. im not some hardline idiot, or a statist, nor do i believe in the creation of a co-ordinator class. you look up the word vanguard in the dictionary. it doesnt indicate a political belief with the definition, theres no requirements to use the word. please step off my shoes, dude.:mad:

[RGacky3]

you look up the word vanguard in the dictionary. it doesnt indicate a political belief with the definition, theres no requirements to use the word. please step off my shoes, dude.

I'm based that statement on the history of people that use the word vanguard to describe their group, generally thats what they turn out to be.

[534634634265]

I'm based that statement on the history of people that use the word vanguard to describe their group, generally thats what they turn out to be.
where did i describe myself as a member of a vanguard? where did anyone align themselves with the term vanguard? did you read the OP? even if i was claiming to be acting in a vanguard role, i just showed you what my definition of that word was, and how it has no organizational affiliation.

i started this thread because of moments like this. people take a word that has a clear and concise DENOTATION and then begin to through it around with lots of CONNOTATIONS.

others words that i think we should re-examine:
capitalism, capitalist, middle-class, and proletariat.
also, i'd like to work TOGETHER(that means not bickering and talking shit) to figure out a clear and relatively short statement on what our current cause for dissent is.

i feel that we are disenfranchised from participation in the decisions that control our daily lives. i feel that we are denied the basic rights(physical needs) of clean water, clean air, and clean food. anyone care to add?

[RGacky3]

I understand that, and I was'nt talking shit, my point was that making definitions is useless, the definitions of a word will always be subjective and based on historical context.

For example, I'll go back to Vanguard, people to explained to me what the Vanguard means, in reality, and what the misconceptions are of the theory.

However historically, the word Vanguard has been associated with what I consider to be something negative.

Now of coarse you could work to get rid of the connotations attached to that word, but thats a very hard uphill battle, and for everyone that does that there are 10 Leninist using it with its historical connotations.

You cannot FORCE defninitions on words, whether or not your definition is the origional and most accurate one. Like I said in another post, words are just tools to get an idea accross.


i feel that we are disenfranchised from participation in the decisions that control our daily lives. i feel that we are denied the basic rights(physical needs) of clean water, clean air, and clean food. anyone care to add?

Yeah I agree. Thats what being a socialsit is all about.