Hello!

[JohnnyC]

The thing that really attracted me to this site, beside the thing that it's most likely the biggest far left forum on the internet :), is tolerance and friendly discussion between all kind of leftist.I personally support two similar but still different ideologies, libertarian marxism (left communism) and anarcho-communism.I must say it's great to know that place like this exist on the internet.

[Junius]

Hi, welcome.

Out of interest, why do you characterize Left Communism as 'libertarian Marxism?'

[F9]

The thing that really attracted me to this site, beside the thing that it's most likely the biggest far left forum on the internet :), is tolerance and friendly discussion between all kind of leftist.I personally support two similar but still different ideologies, libertarian marxism (left communism) and anarcho-communism.I must say it's great to know that place like this exist on the internet.

LOL it make me lough the particular bold text(mine bold)
Welcome on board comrade:star:

[JohnnyC]

Hi, welcome.

Out of interest, why do you characterize Left Communism as 'libertarian Marxism?'
Left Communism is based on a marxist theory and since it's not authoritarian, like most version of marxism, I consider it to be the opposite, and that means its libertarian.Anyway, I think Libertarian Marxism is the offical name for all anti-authoritharian versions of communism.(Luxemburgism, councill communism ...)

[Black Sheep]

LOL it make me lough the particular bold text(mine bold)
Your post implies unjustified irony comrade...

Welcome JohnyC! (it is a great forum,yeah :wub: )

[Junius]

JohnnyC
Left Communism is based on a marxist theory and since it's not authoritarian, like most version of marxism, I consider it to be the opposite, and that means its libertarian.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'authoritarian.' But Left Communists don't characterize themselves as 'libertarian.' A good portion of the Communist Left was quite anti-democratic, centralist and 'authoritarian.' The influences remain the same today.

[F9]

Your post implies unjustified irony comrade...


Yeah it does implies irony but not unjustified!;) We are not and the most loved people between different ideologies, and this topic came up exactly the day that the topics about GDII have start against anarchists etc story.:lol:

Fuserg9:star:

[JohnnyC]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'authoritarian.' But Left Communists don't characterize themselves as 'libertarian.' A good portion of the Communist Left was quite anti-democratic, centralist and 'authoritarian.' The influences remain the same today.


You and me obviously have different impressions of what left communism is.Here are some quotes from wiki about libertarian marxism

Libertarian Marxism is a school of Marxism that takes a far less authoritarian, or in many cases anti-authoritarian view of Marxist theory than conventional currents such as Stalinism, Maoism, Trotskyism and other well-known forms of Marxism-Leninsm.

and left communism

Libertarian Marxism includes such currents as Luxemburgism, council communism, left communism, Socialisme ou Barbarie, the Johnson-Forest Tendency, World Socialism, Lettrism/Situationism and operaismo/autonomism, and New Left.

I can't post the link, but you can just search for the libertarian marxism page.

[Junius]

JC
You and me obviously have different impressions of what left communism is.

Sure do.


Wiki
Libertarian Marxism is a school of Marxism that takes a far less authoritarian, or in many cases anti-authoritarian view of Marxist theory than conventional currents such as Stalinism, Maoism, Trotskyism and other well-known forms of Marxism-Leninsm.

Agreed (although I think it silly to characterize an ideology but its level of 'authoritarianism')


Wiki
Libertarian Marxism includes such currents as Luxemburgism, council communism, left communism, Socialisme ou Barbarie, the Johnson-Forest Tendency, World Socialism, Lettrism/Situationism and operaismo/autonomism, and New Left.

Disagreed.

Left Communism is characterized by specific outlooks on: national liberation, imperialism, unions, parliamentary politics. 'Authoritarianism' is not one of these outlooks. Many Left-Communists were part of the Bolshevik party, and consider themselves part of that tradition, since the Bolsheviks, at the very least, opposed WW1, opposed social-democracy and supported power to the Soviets. The difference is that the Bolsheviks did support working class struggles. Today all their so-called descendents don't.

We don't see the seeds of the defeat of the revolution inherent in Bolshevism, it was a collapse of the international revolution. Most Left Communists stand for a party, aren't part of the Situationist or autonomous or the New Left (!) tendencies. Most are critical of the idea of a 'democratic economy' as nothing more than workers' self-management of their own exploitation. We're not part of the Anarchist tradition, and certainly not part of the libertarian tradition. Read someone like Bordiga and then tell me that Left Communism is 'libertarian Marxism.' Still, I encourage you to join the Left Communist group. :D

Left Communism is not part of the Anarchist tradition. (http://en.internationalism.org/wr/238_leftcom.htm)

[JohnnyC]

Maybe more precise definition of my ideology would be council communism.I think that working class should organize and lead the economy and state, not party and their leaders, that's what I mean when I say anti-authoritarian.

[Bilan]

welcome to the board

[Junius]

Maybe more precise definition of my ideology would be council communism.

Fair enough. Most Left Communists see councils as a means of organization and revolution too. Look at 1917 - the Soviets were, at the beginning, essentially strike committees.


I think that working class should organize and lead the economy and state, not party and their leaders,I agree with this. But merely because I agree that a party should not be integrated in a state does not mean I am against parties per se (not that I am saying you are).


that's what I mean when I say anti-authoritarian.Personally I just find the use of the word fairly vague. Workers' councils can be as 'authoritarian' in imposing their rule, in the suppression of capitalists and so forth. Luxemburg called for the "Elimination of all parliaments and municipal councils, and takeover of their functions by workers' and soldiers' councils, and of the latter's committees and organs" in What Does the Spartacus League Want? The Soviets shut down the Constituent Assembly in Russia. Authoritarian actions, but ones that were in the interests of workers. I also think it is unwise to fetishise a particular form of organization or see organization as some holy thing...

Welcome anyway. :)