Bin Laden wants to out-do 9/11 and may test Obama

[bootleg42]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/11/10/1226165435339.html

Scary to think about. The U.S. is really pushing these few (and I note few) extremists and it could be a lot of innocent people who suffer (on both sides of course). It has to be us, the left in general, that must push to these wars to end.

I hope the anti-war movement gets off it's ass and does something. Another huge attack inside the U.S. will give the U.S. government an excuse to commit even bigger acts of violence and the cycle will continue on. Comments?????? Opinions?????

[Reclaimed Dasein]

Eh, so what if he does? As far as things go, Al Qaeda is just a normal functioning of the Capitalist system. Despite how much damage the US does to human lives, it doesn't really disrupt the system one way or another.

[OTHALA]

Do you really think Bin Laden is capable of striking the U.S., dont be silly, Al qaeda doesnt' exist, this was a neocon ploy to manufacture a War on Terror. Fight wars for Israel. Billions of dollars have went to the military industrial complex.

[bcbm]

Al qaeda doesnt' exist,

Not in the exact sense it is commonly portrayed in the US but there is certainly a network of Muslim extremists coordinating their efforts to some extent or at least supporting each other financially. Since 9-11 it has become more decentralized but remains a network nonetheless.


this was a neocon ploy to manufacture a War on Terror.

Yeah, the idea that Muslim extremists would attack the US is completely unbelievable, as nothing like it has ever happened before.


Fight wars for Israel.

Oh I love when people tag on anti-Semitic conspiracy theories to the rest of their conspiracy nonsense. The war is not for Israel, its a defense and expansion of US economic and geopolitical interests in the Middle East and West Asia.

[Comrade B]

The war is not for Israel, its a defense and expansion of US economic and geopolitical interests in the Middle East and West Asia.
Even the wars that are actually fought in defense of Israel are for this reason, to secure a foot hold in the middle east to kill people from and continue to threaten civilians world wide into passiveness.

[bcbm]

Even the wars that are actually fought in defense of Israel are for this reason, to secure a foot hold in the middle east to kill people from and continue to threaten civilians world wide into passiveness.

And which wars would those be?

[Revy]

I don't think the wars are for Israel, that's an absurdity from the anti-war right. These types are often patriotic and would love to absolve the great America of its crimes. US imperialism existed long before Israel, and its motives and goals while being related to Israel, are independent of it.

As for bin Laden's threats and statements, I have been skeptical of their authenticity. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but they look fake to me. I have heard the theory that bin Laden died a long time ago in 2001.

[bootleg42]

Eh, so what if he does? As far as things go, Al Qaeda is just a normal functioning of the Capitalist system. Despite how much damage the US does to human lives, it doesn't really disrupt the system one way or another.

This is an example of the dogma that hurts the "revolutionary left". I hope it changes.

As for Israel, the only reason it gets so much support from the U.S. is because Israel happens to have the same interests that the U.S. has. The U.S. supports it not because it "loves it" or some conspiracy bull shit, but because helping Israel benefits the U.S. power in the middle east.

As for Bin Laden's threats, lets assume they're real. We should be worried in that another attack from Bin Laden would give the U.S. (in this case it would be Obama) a BIGGER excuse to completely blow up the middle east and take it over, hence extending the war (like it was not already doing it????).

The point I wanted to make is that we need to organize to get an end to these wars in the middle east, and we can do that by organizing people to demand an end.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The whole thing stinks to me. A third-hand warning of an attack by AQ from a completely unnamed source? Colour me skeptical.

Bin Laden and his ilk have never shied away from personally threatening the US and it's allies, so until he or someone else like him speaks up, I consider this to be merely scaremongering.

[Comrade B]

wide into passiveness. And which wars would those be?
The US rarely physically fights directly in the middle east, but the fill Israel with enough guns to kill everyone that opposes them

[bcbm]

The US rarely physically fights directly in the middle east, but the fill Israel with enough guns to kill everyone that opposes them

Israel fights its own wars for its own imperialist purposes. The US supports Israel because of their similar interests and ideology in the region. Still, Israel often acts on its own accord in ways that anger the US, or outright against the US.

[Vendetta]

Sounds like bullshit to me.

[Kukulofori]

I hope they do.

A destruction of America would be good for everyone.

Except the civillians I guess, but it's not like the people who would die in America's future imperial pursuits are less entitled to live than the casualties that would come from this.

[bcbm]

I hope they do.

A destruction of America would be good for everyone.

Except the civillians I guess, but it's not like the people who would die in America's future imperial pursuits are less entitled to live than the casualties that would come from this.

No terrorist organization on the planet has the means to completely destroy the country. It would at best mean massive civilian casualties for everyone. You're a fucking moron.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I hope they do.

A destruction of America would be good for everyone.

Except the civillians I guess, but it's not like the people who would die in America's future imperial pursuits are less entitled to live than the casualties that would come from this.

The fact you would even say "I guess" after recognizing the tragedy which would ensue around civilians is stupendous.

No respectable leftist wants Osama to secure a terrorist attack. I think you'd find more friends in the Ron Paul crowd.

[GPDP]

Calm down, guys. She's definitely no libertarian right-winger. She is just expressing her distaste for US imperialism.

Nevertheless, I too condemn that comment. Kij, you should never wish for a terrorist attack on the US, no matter how much you think we deserve it. I doubt anything good can come out of an al-Qaeda attack. The only way to overthrow the US government and progress into something better is through a popular revolt, not an attack from outside.

[bcbm]

Calm down, guys. She's definitely no libertarian right-winger. She is just expressing her distaste for US imperialism.


Forgive me if somebody saying myself, my family, my friends and scores of other innocent people dying would be good for everyone irks me.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Some of the viewpoints on this thread are incredible.

1) Al Qaeda is, in fact, a real, tangible organization. The first I heard of the them was back in the mid-90s.
2) All attacks by Muslim fundamentalists aren't fabricated by the government to support Israeli imperialism.
3) Supporting the deaths of millions of innocent civilians in the United States is not cool. It's pretty horrible, in fact.

That is all.

[Annie K.]

Forgive me if somebody saying myself, my family, my friends and scores of other innocent people dying would be good for everyone irks me.You're so egocentric...
But the facts are that no terrorist attack could destroy the US. That's regrettable. No reason to hope for one, still.

[Coggeh]

Bin laden is dead.... The US just use him as a tool for creating fear as do al-qaeda .

I agree with agora77's post for the most part point 1 and 3 . But i do think the US government and corporate media are fabricating so many issues to create fear for the American public

[benhur]

One should never wish terrorism upon any nation/people. It's plain sick.

[Wanted Man]

It doesn't really matter if bin Laden is dead or alive, he's just one guy. It's not as if islamic terrorism will stop when he dies. The horrors of 9/11 are well known, although they stand in no comparison to the thousands of deaths that are directly caused by capitalism and imperialism on a daily basis. bin Laden (and islamic terrorism in general) is used as a bogey man. When San Francisco wanted to keep out military recruiters, Bill O'Reilly said: "Okay, so then we can tell the terrorists: if you want to blow up Coit Tower, go ahead."

It's ignorant to suggest that 9/11, Al Qaeda and islamic terrorism are somehow so uniquely evil and reactionary that they deserve special notice amongst all the other 'evils' (as if the hypocritical moralism of the imperialists has anything to do with reality) in the world. Apart from being a shabby excuse for unbridled imperialism, the problem of the "War on Terrorism" is that it's basically all about fighting and attempting to destroy an abstract concept. Terrorism is not an existing force with an X amount of military units that can be fought and annihilated in he open field.

Of course, attacks like 9/11 can only be condemned, but they would not have existed if it wasn't for everything that led up to them. Recognise this, instead of just falling for the usual hypocrisy when the imperialists use these attacks as justification for their endeavours.

[Kukulofori]

Obviously I don't want anyone to die, but then you can't exactly topple an empire by asking nicely either.

[bcbm]

But you can topple it with terrorist attacks? Get your head out of the sand.

[Bilan]

You're so egocentric...

And you're a detestable fuck.



But the facts are that no terrorist attack could destroy the US. That's regrettable. No reason to hope for one, still.

You're a lunatic. Seriously. This is blatant blind national hatred, built on a false premise.

[Revy]

I hope they do.

A destruction of America would be good for everyone.

Except the civillians I guess, but it's not like the people who would die in America's future imperial pursuits are less entitled to live than the casualties that would come from this.

You're just sick if you really think that.

[Invader Zim]

You're so egocentric...
But the facts are that no terrorist attack could destroy the US. That's regrettable. No reason to hope for one, still.

You are a total fucking moron.

[black magick hustla]

You're so egocentric...
But the facts are that no terrorist attack could destroy the US. That's regrettable. No reason to hope for one, still.

*sips organic herbal coffee paying lipservice to half assed situationist ideas while mumbing "heh american imperialist plebes...."*:rolleyes:

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Al-Qaeda does indeed exist, but it doesn't exist in the way its normally portrayed by the imperialist-subservient media.

Al-Qaeda is more of a current, a tendency, rather than an organization.

Al-Qaeda doesn't have a centralized command structure, with Osama bin Laden and others controlling it in a hierarchial fashion.

Instead, it is a network of de-centralized, loosely-connected cells all over the world.

A cell need not even get direct assistance from the other cells. And Osama bin Laden and his close aides need not even know of its existence until it launches a strike.

Once it does launch a strike, it claims to do so under the aegis of "Al-Qaeda", and then Osama bin Laden can release a video-tape encouraging more such attacks, leading to more cells being formed worldwide.

Anyone who espouses the basic ideology of Salafi-inspired militant Islam can begin operations and consider themselves a cell of Al-Qaeda.

[skki]

Bin Laden has never had a loyal group of Islamic insurgents following his every order. He made a few videos in 2001, around February, that showed him being followed around by masked militants. It later turned out that all these people were hired hands; told to come dressed in black and bring their own guns. He used these videos and other sorts of propaganda to assert himself as a power, and now they're being used as propaganda against him.

[Nakidana]

I'm more afraid of the West than "Bin Laden". Last time he killed three thousand people in the US and the West responded by wrecking two countries and killing a million people in the process.

How many deaths will Western imperialism require the next time Al-Qaeda attacks? Two million? Three?

Oh wait, Obama, the saviour of all that is good and sacred, is at the helm now. Whoopty fuckin' do... :glare:

[BobKKKindle$]

The emergence of terror networks consisting of large numbers of small cells is surely one of the most important and fascinating forms of political globalization which is already changing the way we think about the concept of a war. In the past, war has generally been understood as a prolonged conflict which occurs between nation-states which are recognized as legitimate entities by the rest of the international community, and is conducted in accordance with a set of rules which dictate how each side is allowed to treat any soldiers they capture, which weapons can be used against the enemy, and so on. However, militant networks are not tied to any nation-state and generally lack a centralized command structure, which means that even if the US succeeds in capturing Osama Bin-Laden or any other individual whom they think has a major role within one of these networks, they will not be able to stop "terrorist" attacks from being committed in the future because "terrorism" is driven mainly by a set of ideas which are rooted in the way the US has acted towards the rest of the world throughout history and so will not disappear until the US has stopped meddling in the affairs of other countries.