cliCHE Guevara??? - Is socialism becoming too trendy?

[Jarvis Cocker]

I had to endure a wicked wait in the barber-shop the other day. I passed the time by browsing through an old addition of time magazine. One of the articles was doing a promo piece for a up-coming Johnny Depp film; I suspect it was some film produced by time-Warner, which one I can’t recall. What shocked me about the article was that Depp was wearing a Che necklace. While I think that it’s great that educated bands like RATM have introduced the ideals of socialism to the mainstream, I question if the ideology is loosing some of its credibility to politically inept stars that simply advocate its essence to appear profound and deep.

What do you think? The more popular the better?
Or do rat bastards like Depp give the ideology a bad name?

[Nobody]

I have mised feelings on the topic. Firstly, we commies are badly out numbered, with a really inpet way of recuritment, you discover it on your own. But if someone saw that picture of Depp, and deicded to learn more about Che and Marx and our ideals, great. But if that person decides to try and be like Depp and wear che shirts without knowing who is is and what he stands for, then all we believe is for naught.

[nz revolution]

Well said Lev.

[Urban Rubble]

I have mixed feelings about this too, however I've been drinking so I'm not going to post anything worthwhile.

All I have to say is the name of this thread is fucking hillarious, cliCHE Guevara, HA !

Welcome to the boards Jarvis.

[Urban Rubble]

Jarvis, I just read a different post of yours, if you are so anti-communist why do you think it's great that Rage advocates it ?

[Jarvis Cocker]

I'm anti-ignorance aswell.

Educated people form educated opinions.

[Sabocat]

I suppose that it's quite possible that Depp is legitimately interested in Che. It's possible that he has read about him, and is a believer in socialist revolution. I would say unless you knew Johnny Depp personally, it would be difficult to judge.

I don't think it's fair to imply that he's just a "poser" because he is an actor. Most of us here on this board work for a living within the capitalist system. That doesn't mean we aren't seeking a change right?

Depp also is a bit anti U$ and lives in France, so it's quite possible that he does know a thing or two about the icon hanging around his neck.

I also agree, that maybe if more people see the symbol of Che, and ask questions, read about him and communism and socialism, that's a benefit to our battle. Educating the masses, as to a different way of life is what we should all be about.

[El Che]

" (...) politically inept stars that simply advocate its essence to appear profound and deep."

I`m going to be pedantic and tell you that this doesn`t read right. The essence is the fundamental. A correct understanding of that which is fundamental.

[Danton]

On Depp.. Though undoubtedly a subversive actor not of the Hollywood mould I think his dual appearance in that wretched anti-Castro tripe "Before night falls" as a Transvestite prisoner and then sadistic revolutionary officer with a bone-on for imprisoned gay writers nails his colours to the mast and it aint red.

Che's iconiclism will see that his image is constantly regurgatated and hijacked by second rate actors and pop tarts desperatley seeking credability with the youth. If it leads to even a minority seeking truth and understanding of the man and his ideals then it can't be all bad news.

"They think we are retarded? it is they who are retarded... the bastards" - Iraqi info minister

[Sabocat]

Quote: from Danton on 6:03 pm on June 2, 2003
On Depp.. Though undoubtedly a subversive actor not of the Hollywood mould I think his dual appearance in that wretched anti-Castro tripe "Before night falls" as a Transvestite prisoner and then sadistic revolutionary officer with a bone-on for imprisoned gay writers nails his colours to the mast and it aint red.

Che's iconiclism will see that his image is constantly regurgatated and hijacked by second rate actors and pop tarts desperatley seeking credability with the youth. If it leads to even a minority seeking truth and understanding of the man and his ideals then it can't be all bad news.

"They think we are retarded? it is they who are retarded... the bastards" - Iraqi info minister

Wow...didn't know about that film. Sorry to hear that about Depp.

Fuck him then.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I definately hear what Jarvis is trying to say.

I don't think there is any real relevance in his mention of Johnny Depp in particular.

It does seem as though people are wearing revolutionary (not necessairly Socialist) icons on their t-shirts, hats and whatever else as a trendy thing. I remember once when I had a book on Che in school with me, and one of my friends said, "Oh, that's the guy from all the t-shirts".

However, I do think, like Lev said, that it will sometimes be a good thing whereby people will see the face and look into it. That's certainly how I became interested in Che. Saw him on a few people's t-shirts and asked one of my well-educated friends who it was. He told me, and I bought the Anderson book and that is how my leftist ideology started. So it could work as an advantage.

Besides, is there really a disadvantage to it?

[truthaddict11]

i may be mistaken but wasnt "Before Night Falls" about the treatment of Gays in early post-revolution Cuba?
The writer fought in the revolution too.

Can a mod please move this thread to Che Guevara forum where it belongs?

[restrictedfreedom]

A girl I know from elementary school who I have gornw up with and consider a sister has a Che shirt. She was wearing it one time and I inquired to her if she knew who Che was. She informed me that he was a key player in the Mexican Revolution...

I talked to her for awhile about all of it, and I haven't seen her wear the shirt since. I guess his ideals turned her off. Would it have been better for me not to say anything and allowed her to be an unwilling and unknowing walking advertisement?

Also, I had a Che book in school and a girl said "that's the guy from the Jay-Z Video"

I have another friend with a Che shirt, but I have never asked him if he knew who Che was. I saw a ton of Che shirts at hot topic last week.

[Danton]

Truth addict.

The film poses as a morality tale of human rights abuses of homosexuals, yes. The tone though is very anti-Castro as you would expect from Hollywood studios and effectivley a low rent back-ally cheapshot against the revolution. No the protagonist, one Reinaldo Arenas did not fight in the revolution as he himself attests, he did join the rebels toward the end but I feel, given his persuasion he was looking for something else. Indeed..

I am not homophobic at all but I think Cuba's treatment of gays were simply reflective of the times.


"We will welcome them with bullets ...and shoes" -Iraqi info minister.

[Dirty Commie]

Quote: from Socialsmo o Muerte on 10:03 am on June 2, 2003
I definately hear what Jarvis is trying to say.

I don't think there is any real relevance in his mention of Johnny Depp in particular.

It does seem as though people are wearing revolutionary (not necessairly Socialist) icons on their t-shirts, hats and whatever else as a trendy thing. I remember once when I had a book on Che in school with me, and one of my friends said, "Oh, that's the guy from all the t-shirts".

However, I do think, like Lev said, that it will sometimes be a good thing whereby people will see the face and look into it. That's certainly how I became interested in Che. Saw him on a few people's t-shirts and asked one of my well-educated friends who it was. He told me, and I bought the Anderson book and that is how my leftist ideology started. So it could work as an advantage.

Besides, is there really a disadvantage to it?



That is almost exactly how I became a leftist too.
Except, I started by watching a movie on Castro and sitting in on union mettings when I was six.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

LOOOOOOL 'cliCHE' thats pure genius. I think that people wearing socialist infulenced clothing is alright, though it would be nice to see people being a bit more curious about the image printed on their chest.

[suffianr]

Che Guevara is the most accessible reference to revolution that anyone out there with an inkling of socialism would ever want...Or perhaps even need.

Jarvis Cocker's assumption that "the ideology is loosing some of its credibility to politically inept stars that simply advocate its essence to appear profound and deep", is simply a misguided attempt at trying to undermine the influence and pervasiveness of Che's image as a cultural icon.

We have Che. The question is, how come capitalism doesn't have a Che Guevara, too?

A cultural representation of it's ideology? A moral spokesperson?

Or is it that something like capitalism is already so ingrained and entrenched in the minds of most people that it doesn't need to be heralded in the form of cultural icons?

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I'll tell you what....

What a fuckin post that was by suiffianr.

I stand corrected. One of the best posts I have ever read on CheLives.com

[YKTMX]

Quote: from Danton on 6:28 pm on June 2, 2003
Truth addict.

The film poses as a morality tale of human rights abuses of homosexuals, yes. The tone though is very anti-Castro as you would expect from Hollywood studios and effectivley a low rent back-ally cheapshot against the revolution. No the protagonist, one Reinaldo Arenas did not fight in the revolution as he himself attests, he did join the rebels toward the end but I feel, given his persuasion he was looking for something else. Indeed..

I am not homophobic at all but I think Cuba's treatment of gays were simply reflective of the times.



So was the final solution.

[truthaddict11]

personally I think Che would be disgusted the way people on both sides Capitalist and Socialist use his image to "sell" thier stuff. yes this website has his name and his likeliness of him on it but this board is not a Che Guevara fan club, it is a leftist community.
His image has become a pop icon much the way how Boris Karlof as Frankenstein or Marilyn Monroe have become they have easily reconizable images of them. I wonder how much of this Che fandom would exist if that famous photo was never taken.
Im not telling anyone on any side not to wear his image but try the best you can to educate people instead of criticizing them and perhaps alienating them.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I think the fact that Che was killed at an early age and in such controversial fashion is more important than the Korda photograph.

[Bianconero]

Personally speaking, it's annoying, depressing to see so many people coming up with Guevara and not knowing what he stands for. But then, as somebody already mentioned, if his bloody head looking 'cool' (whatever) makes people think, then so be it. I won't complain.