Log in

View Full Version : Please tell me what you think - guide me



Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 10:02
Hi, I thought I put this a post similar to this in the lounge, it must have been deleted (I can guess why since it was a little political) I have now found a place to post this: here, please read and tell me where I have gone wrong or where I am spot on. thanx.

I have been using this little piece of writting to get poeple to join my specific group in my country. please give some sought of critique:

I don’t have all the answers, but the thing is without the constraint of democracy, we select few will have a much greater chance of coming up with something better than what democracy can evolve into.

When people vote they do not vote for the party that is the most morally correct or most fit to rule that will uphold the constitution of that country. They vote based on their own selfish interests. There are a lot of people in my country who are criminals because the system as it stands doesn’t offer them a job or food, but these people are still expected to follow the restrictions of our society, clearly the social contract is not kept up, this is only the fault of how our constitution plays a role in governance in my country, it can only limit new bills and acts of parliament from not contradicting the constitution but it does in no way stimulate bills to uphold what is already written, e.g. substantial food for all. And because there is no political will to institute such measures, these people find themselves in a hopeless plight simply because the starving are all uneducated and the educated are working class or middle class who either believe in the system or benefit from the system too much as it stands to want it to change.

This states why the society I live in and all democracies are immoral and why they can’t change from within their own democratic systems. This is why we must make a system of debate and a hierarchy that serves the truth best. We must be careful no to tread on the graves of our predecessors, Hitler, Marx and the people who are running America who have done a pretty damn good job up till now. We must crush capitalism (I’m sure that doesn’t need elaboration) We must not imitate their mistakes and we must tread a true line that might not stay fixed, but that will be followed till we find what this planet has only thought about producing but never progressed towards through their self serving rut in democracy.


Everything is debatable, the important thing is we organise and act; we need to spread and collect resources. We must succeed before it is to late to do anything before our currently pretty free environments get more policed, which is where we might be headed, let us do our task while it is easy before it becomes hard and because it is just the right thing to do.

Is it too much to ask this world for some moral consistently? Someone must make the corrections or make the moral concessions in which case I hope all external actions that have an affect on you are based on the same amoral and immoral motives as you have inflicted on the people in your own society.

Perhaps instead of a system that takes you into consideration simply by virtue of being the correct age. We could have a system of debate that determines our rule, much like the system within a one party communist state.

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 10:10
Hi, I thought I put this a post similar to this in the lounge, it must have been.....

this should read:
Hi, I thought I put a post similar to this in the lounge, it must have been.....

Sorry, you will undoubtedly discover untop of not editing my work, I am also a very poor speller, please bear with me.

Ghost Writer
31st May 2003, 11:23
You fool. Capitalism has nothing to do with the plight of the Russians. It amazes me that someone in your situation would chose to organize the same way your predecessors did, in order to implement the exact same system that led your country down the rugged road that it is on.

The problem with your area of the world has everything to do with the fact that your society's entrepreneurial spirit was bred out of it through an absolute reliance on a government that promised to provide you with everything. When central planning fell apart, as it always will due to the built in inefficiencies of such a catastrophic system, your country was led down a path toward what it assumes is capitalism.

In actuality, you still have the remnants of the patron-client network that the old Soviet cadre party created. That is why your version of what you call capitalism is tainted. However, your country has made great strides in its government.

The democracy that you despise is the only tool available to you that will ensure the kind of political change you find necessary to combat this corruption. Through the press, which has become increasing liberated, it is now the responsibility of the citizen to uproot those public officials that abuse their power. If members of your society use this aspect of democracy to expose corruption, and work towards the truth, then the voting public can make wiser choices in at the polls. In addition to the vote, and the press, you now have the ability to apply direct pressure on the government by forming interest groups, which can now exist without the approval of a single manipulative party.

The reason your democracy remains in trouble is not due to the inherent flaws of democracy. It remains as a testament to the damage that can be done by the very type of system that you actively promote. Know this. Your "democracy" has not withstood the test of time and is consider by many to hang in the balance. Many are convinced that time will repair the pains you society has felt as a result of Marxist-Leninist ideology. Others think that it will turn back down the dark path that you advocate.

I hope there are others in your country that understand that the problems your democracy is faced with should be blamed on the totalitarian regime that failed you to begin with. Hopefully, your countrymen will move to take direct responsibility for your country's future at the individual level. This is best done through democratic means that promote free-market principles. The wounds your country has endured need time and energy to heal. Democracy is the only hope you have.

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 12:00
This has got nothing to do with Russia, sorry I didnt even think I should have stated I am South African. Please reavulate the actual situation now. I am very interested to see what you have to say on the matter.

Ghost Writer
31st May 2003, 12:08
Sorry, your broken English and the situation you described led me to jump to conclusions. Most of what I say in defense of democracy still applies. I debated whether or not my assessment was correct, based on the fact that you actually praised Hitler. I don't think many Russians would agree with that aspect. That should have been the tell that told me that my first instinct was wrong, and that you were more an advocate of fascism than socialism. If you are into the Aryan brotherhood, then there is really no help for you short of a bullet.

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 12:19
I only meant to mention all the people who tried to take over the world, in form or another.

Let me just add a compaint I have emailed to all the MEC's emails I could find

The way democracy is conducted in this country circumvents all the proactive restrictions in our constitution e.g. substancial food for all est. It only seems to be proficient at limiting new bills and acts of parliament so that they don’t contradict what is in the constitution. We might aswell contradict it than not uphold it, am I the only one who does not see the difference in these two offences.
I feel strongly that the constitution be rectified to accommodate this problem that no one has seemed to perceive.


This however will never be rectified, as democracy seems to find it crutial to have no restrictions in its way, it only makes sure the minority will never be picked on, but it can ignore the starving minority (they arent really the minority but are made so with there inforced inability to vote correctly and their indoctranation by the rulling party, which will always be present in a democratic sociaty)

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 12:28
Sorry the first "minority" should be a "majority"
Perhaps the problem I think is the greatest in democray is representaion, it just doesnt seem to work, but if you have 1 party and a debating system within it or somehting of the like, that I can imagine working no some half attempt at a political debate and at the end there is a vote where people just vote for their party and not the most viable argument. But in a debate it isnt reduced to such unjust/untrue factors.

Ghost Writer
31st May 2003, 12:37
Give me one example where a single-party system has worked.

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 12:44
China, and dont tell me all the shit going on in China, they work pretty damn well, and they wouldnt be able to face the huge challenges in China without such a governance, eg over population, something that democracy would never be able to combat becuase democrcy is based on the people which are short sited and basicly to hedanistic to be practicle. i know that forced arbotion might now be entirley a good and moral thing, but it just shows how much more (as in very complicated difficult stuff can be taken on) can be done without the constraint of a democracy.


(Edited by Unrelenting Steve at 5:27 pm on June 9, 2003)

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 13:30
Dont leave me hanging, please reply

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 14:29
Well if neone else wants to reply to nething please do so, some more input would be lovley.

Ghost Writer
31st May 2003, 15:57
I will have to get back to you, as I became preoccupied with the WMD situation in Iraq. I will get back with a response, but I must sleep for now. I will say this. Your use of China as an example of how a one party system has worked is hilarious. Not only does it demonstrate your ignorance of world events, it shows that you actually have no concern for the human condition, as you claim. That makes you a hypocrit. China? That's the best you can do. I would have used Mexico long before I would even consider mentioning China as a success story for the one-party system. LMFAO!

Unrelenting Steve
31st May 2003, 22:10
Could you not have said nething constructive? I never condoned what the Chinese do, only to say that they are obviously tackling situations that would otherwise not be adressed by a theoreticly perfect democratic state! I dont see you contradicting that, no only making slanderous rebukes that have no substance. You are choosing not to see (or are too ignorant to see) my point, and through this you call me "not having concern with the human condition". What a feeble rebuttle, if you cant combat my argument dont slander it. Is your denile in your system so strong that you cant even see when your being pathetic?

Eastside Revolt
31st May 2003, 23:02
Unrelenting Steve,

Do you know what is for dinner?

Unrelenting Steve
2nd June 2003, 19:06
Could someone plz post something! I would really like some constructive crit.

synthesis
3rd June 2003, 01:04
Ghost Writer: Would you say that you support democracy 100% of the time, or would you ever support a single-party state if it benefitted you?

Unrelenting Steve
6th June 2003, 18:29
why do they always run away when you demolish their argument?

Unrelenting Steve
9th June 2003, 18:25
So sorry plz look at my correction, the "now" is supposed to be a "not", I am so sorry, the fault is mine. But please continue, I would like to see this particular debate to conclution.