So much to say, let's make this about iraq

[mentalbunny]

Well I've been watching the BBC news recently and there's quite a lot of interest, like the situation in Israel and the meeting in St Petersburg, but right nwo I want to talk about Iraq and WMD. We all know what the politicians are saying, and we all know there's a huge debate about the credibility of the evidence used before the conflict. What I want to know is how important people think that is and why?

Personally, and this is jsut my opinion mind you, I'm more concerned with what's actually happening than any lies in the past. True it means you can't trust them now but we don't need to trust them, we jsut need to keep a firm eye on them.

I also want to know what the capitalists think of the whole situation.

[Ghost Writer]

It is very important that we find those weapons, for two reasons. First, so the deadly results of such weapons can not be unleashed on the American people, or anyone else. Second, because it presents a huge credibility problem for the United States. It may hinder our justification for further action in Iran, and North Korea, where we have precisely the same problem with weapons of mass destruction. If we can not back our fight up with evidence it will be extremely difficult to make the same case, if a need to attack N. Korea or Iran should arise.

(Edited by Ghost Writer at 12:01 pm on May 31, 2003)

[ComradeRiley]

N.Korea wouldkick USA's ass and the Chinese wouldnt allow the yanks to invade

[Ghost Writer]

Is that what you think? Stupidity is always fascinating to me. Truly laughable. Do you really think the Chinese would further sacrfice their economic growth for a black sheep like N. Korea. This is not the Cold War era, need I remind you.

[ComradeRiley]

They did it before for N.Korea against USA and they will do it again, why??? because the Chinese dont want yanks on their doorstep

[Ghost Writer]

I suggest you review your history. Here is a timeline (http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/TimeLine.htm). You should pay particular attention to the number of casualties.

" 54,246 Americans, died during the Korean War; 33,629 were killed in action. In addition, 228,000 Korean soldiers and untold numbers of civilians, 717 Turkish soldiers, and 1,109 soldiers of the United Kingdom, and many other UN volunteers gave their lives, and over 110,000 American were wounded and MIA."

"American estimates of enemy casualties, including prisoners, exceed 1,500,000, of which 900,000, almost two-thirds, were Chinese. Other estimates are higher, official Chinese figures are much lower."

Let me also remind you that this isn't the 1950's. Our weapons and intelligence is far more advanced these days. Back then the difference between us and our enemies was much smaller, in terms of technology.

[ComradeRiley]

far more intelligence???? president bush??? please make sence how can you say far more intelligence when Bush is in charge?? also China has a much bigger army than the USA and N.Korea is unified with Nuclear weopans. Whenever the USA takes on a country with even a slight bit of unity they lose.

You can state your figures but at the end of the day the USA lost in N.Korea, they were pushed back out of the country

Do you know anything about when the USA tried to take on Somalia? (big mistake by USA)

(Edited by ComradeRiley at 12:42 pm on May 31, 2003)

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from ComradeRiley on 12:04 pm on May 31, 2003
N.Korea wouldkick USA's ass and the Chinese wouldnt allow the yanks to invade


LOL LMFAO LMFAO LOL LOL

[Zombie]

LOL LMFAO LMFAO LOL LOL

don't choke on yourself now baby

[Zombie]

Quote: from Ghost Writer on 7:00 am on May 31, 2003
It is very important that we find those weapons, for two reasons. First, so the deadly results of such weapons can not be unleashed on the American people, or anyone else. Second, because it presents a huge credibility problem for the United States. It may hinder our justification for further action in Iran, and North Korea, where we have precisely the same problem with weapons of mass destruction. If we can not back our fight up with evidence it will be extremely difficult to make the same case, if a need to attack N. Korea or Iran should arise.

(Edited by Ghost Writer at 12:01 pm on May 31, 2003)


Credibility credibility credibility... tssk tssk

How about commenting on my last post regarding that issue? Or was I right? Is that why you are silent?

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from Zombie on 2:18 am on June 1, 2003
LOL LMFAO LMFAO LOL LOL

don't choke on yourself now baby


That would be difficult

[Zombie]

No seriously, some people do choke on their own laughter...

[mentalbunny]

*bump* Please respond!

[dopediana]

well, i'm not a cappie who can give you a point of view you'd be interested in hearing, but the war has had no legitimacy thus far. iraq contains no weapons of mass destruction as far as we know. and some conservative shits have tried to pass the empty warheads off as weapons of mass destruction.

actually, i was reading "extra!" and found some interesting news.
remember the toppling of saddam's statue? usa cameras focused in very close on the statue to create the illusion of many people gathering round. however, other media sources took aerial shots and the square is huge, the people are concentrated around the statue. there's a very small number of people attending this "monumental" event, only 200-300 people.
(not to say that iraqis love saddam, only that most of them did not feel safe enough to come out and show defiance. they also are very discontent with the usa troops which could have been another reason for low turnout.)

also lines set by the geneva convention and concerning journalism have been crossed. i forget the journalist's name and i'm too lazy to go downstairs right now and get the article, but i'll post it later. in a nutshell, an american journalist following the troops assisted in killing three of the republican guard. he didn't pull the trigger himself but he spotted them and told the soldier he was with to "shoot those fuckers."

and the "fuckers" were shot. in fact, they were not only killed, they were over-killed with a .50 caliber. the geneva convention states that it is illegal in wartime or any other time to kill a person with such large bullets of such a high caliber weapon. the journalist is also jeopardizing the safety of other journalists to report. in assisting with the elimination of those three soldiers, he is placing himself in the position of a killer as well and breaking the barrier that keeps journalists safe as being outside parties.

iraqi body count minimum is about 3,700. how tragic....

(Edited by the amaryllis at 3:30 am on June 4, 2003)

[CopperGoat]

Holy shit. That body count is huge. You Capitalist assholes you realize that this body count is larger than September 11 body count.

"But no, it's different, because our precious capitalist buildings were destroyed. Now we can't exploit more people than we used to"

[Dirty Commie]

.-[qoute]"But no, it's different, because our precious capitalist buildings were destroyed. Now we can't exploit more people than we used to"[/quote]

Holy shit!! that for some reason makes me laugh at how stupid capitalists are.

(Edited by Dirty Commie at 10:57 pm on June 3, 2003)

[dopediana]

fine. ok. huge bodycount. did anyone read the rest of the post? i found everything i had to say was breathtaking. at least at the time...

[Dirty Commie]

I heard the thing about bullet caliber somewhere else, and I assume you heard of the FOX news guy who got busted trying to steal art from the Iraqi museum...

[canikickit]

You Capitalist assholes you realize that this body count is larger than September 11 body count.

The two events aren't really connected. The reference is irellevant, and displays a bad attitude towards reality.

Well, is anyone actually surprised at the results of this pathetic war? The (universally condemnded) pre-emptive war tactic will be used again, this time the excuse will be that the terroists will run away with the weapons. I can picture the "high speed chase" on CNN now, the US tanks going after two Iraqis in a pickup.

It's such a load of horseshit. Norm, you should consider looking for employment with Fox News, you might as well get paid for spoofing Fox News' line.


because it presents a huge credibility problem for the United States

It doesn't really. The US is pretty incredible as it is. I see from the news over here that your government already falling back on the "moral" justification, and abandoning the whole "W-M-D" hoax.

It wouldn't surprise me if the reported a different story in the US.

results of such weapons can not be unleashed on the American people, or anyone else.

I find it so strange that you and your ilk have to preface such statements with the "American people" line. Most people I know would merely talk about innocent life. Cultural differences, I guess.

[Anonymous]

iraqi body count minimum is about 3,700. how tragic....

Actually, it's more in the order of 5,340.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The Geneva Convention is stupid. it assumes war is some sort of game and sets out rules to use in a time of chaos. all in the name of 'fair play'. silly.
About the calibre thing, isn't .50 just a bit bigger than a magnum (.44 or .45, I forget)?
That doesn't sound to me like overkill.
Also by that reasoning you could say that hitting troops with tank shells is also illegal. Stupid that, effectively saying if you have an advantage don't use it.
I'm not supporting imperialist brutality, but I find it ridicoulus that people have to say 'ooh ooh, they used a big gun, them bad!' to make a point.

[革命者]

Quote: from canikickit on 5:27 am on June 4, 2003

You Capitalist assholes you realize that this body count is larger than September 11 body count.

The two events aren't really connected. The reference is irellevant, and displays a bad attitude towards reality.

Well, is anyone actually surprised at the results of this pathetic war? The (universally condemnded) pre-emptive war tactic will be used again, this time the excuse will be that the terroists will run away with the weapons. I can picture the "high speed chase" on CNN now, the US tanks going after two Iraqis in a pickup.

It's such a load of horseshit. Norm, you should consider looking for employment with Fox News, you might as well get paid for spoofing Fox News' line.


because it presents a huge credibility problem for the United States

It doesn't really. The US is pretty incredible as it is. I see from the news over here that your government already falling back on the "moral" justification, and abandoning the whole "W-M-D" hoax.

It wouldn't surprise me if the reported a different story in the US.

results of such weapons can not be unleashed on the American people, or anyone else.

I find it so strange that you and your ilk have to preface such statements with the "American people" line. Most people I know would merely talk about innocent life. Cultural differences, I guess.
wow, Cani, you reached 5000 posts, already!!! congrats!! keep up the good atmospere on the board with your comical remarks!!

[Ghost Writer]

" find it so strange that you and your ilk have to preface such statements with the "American people" line. Most people I know would merely talk about innocent life. Cultural differences, I guess."

What do you think the "or anyone else" was suppose to mean. Of course I place greater importance in the lives of my brethren, than in the lives of the countless socialists in Europe. Perhaps if the governments of that region had been more inclined to remember old favors, and give the Americans the support they asked for, I would count them as brothers. Unfortunately, the pansies on the left have overrun your once great countries, and watered down your desire to survive. Therefore, I care less about most Europeans than you would like me two. You are right about innocent life. It is precious, and should be preserved. To equate the mindless harpies of the left with innocent people is a joke. Your ilk demands my destruction. Thus, they are my enemy, and I hate them. What would you expect? You don't expect me to be tolerant of my enemy, do you?


(Edited by Ghost Writer at 9:12 pm on June 4, 2003)

[James]

The french don't owe the americans anything really (if you like this silly line of thought) - if anything its sort of equal now.

Fun game: guess which country wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the french?

[Ghost Writer]

You wish motherf*cker. They owe us for both WWI and WWII.

[Loknar]

People please back off of the French military history. Despite the fact that they can be rude they have an excelllent military record. AT least they tried to hold on to their empire unlike the Brits who just left with out a fight.

[canikickit]

What do you think the "or anyone else" was suppose to mean.

That's why I said prefaced. Why ask this question, when you go on to disregard the "or anyone else"?

Of course I place greater importance in the lives of my brethren, than in the lives of the countless socialists in Europe.

I'd imagine that the vast majority of people in Europe (as well as Africa, Asia and South America, which also exist) are as apolitical as anyone of your Fox News watching brethern, Norm. You seem to view Europe as some sort of socialist heaven, it's a pity you have no exposure to the actuality.

Perhaps if the governments of that region had been more inclined to remember old favors, and give the Americans the support they asked for, I would count them as brothers.

That line of reasoning is incredibly flawed. Perhaps you should reference this thread (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=2427&start=0). The US helped Europe battle against those who start pre-emptive/preventive wars, back in the forties. May I remind you that they entered into the war when it was already winding down, and it was Germany who declared war on the US, not the other way around.

Perhaps the "socialist" governements of Europe would have aided the US if the war had been begun by an aggressive rouge nation and was raging across three continents.

The whole comparision is ridiculous.

Therefore, I care less about most Europeans than you would like me two. You are right about innocent life. It is precious, and should be preserved. To equate the mindless harpies of the left with innocent people is a joke. Your ilk demands my destruction. Thus, they are my enemy, and I hate them. What would you expect? You don't expect me to be tolerant of my enemy, do you?

Paranoid nonsense. Go back to the fifties, maybe the "red scare" will have more creedence there.

Man, you're paranoid.

[James]

i'm sorry its true. If it wasn't for those froggies, your proud nation would still be part of the old empire.

Thus, they made you. You saving them was a consequence of their first action of creation.
Silly eh?
Why not just stop with the whole "they owe us booooo hoooo" thing?

[James]

plus have you ever wondered why they are reluctant to go to war?

How many wars have taken place on american soil in the past 80 odd years?

[dopediana]

vive la france!

bloody nationalistic warmongering americans. and some german exchange student at my school has been so brainwashed she presumes to inform ME of all people that americans are patriotic, not nationalistic.

i'm normally very nice with exchange students in particular (don't get me wrong, i wasn't rude at all) but i told her in no uncertain terms that she shouldn't believe everything america's media publishes because it's printed only to inspire certain types of pro-american and pro-war sentiments and tells half-truths and is amazingly biased. i also told her to take her german friends seriously because they know what they're talking about when it comes to politics as opposed to republican americans who hear only what they want to hear and for the most part are religious zealots who inform me that i'm on my way to hell at least 11 times a day.

sorry. a rant. i oughtn't do those but i've got all this pent up frustration.....

[mentalbunny]

Well no one owes any one anything. I know that current diplomacy does seem to go as who owes who a favour but it shouldn't be like that, it should be about the actual situation and where the individual country stantds onit. If the US hadn't gone in to help France then they would have been at risk. They could have come in a lot earlier but they waited, so the war was won later than it could have been. True, the Americans did help win it, but it doesn't mean we should do whatever they want.

Thanks, Diana, for your first post. I didn't say I wanted only capis, I wanted everyone's opinions!

Personally I'm worried about the level of news covereage of post-war Iraq, and why aren't the UN peacekeepers in there? Why is it still the US? I know the UN is mainly concerned with the Congo right now, after reports of cannabilism and the rest, but Iraq is still important.