Socialism - Can it really work?

[Red Rising]

Let me begin by saying I am new. I am also seeking an intelligent discussion/answers. If I appear ignorant in some cases, that is because I have not read the full extent of any socialist works(i.e: Communist Manifesto) and maybe I should. I see talk of a "Socialist American" in some threads. Yet I sit and wonder, how can this be done and will 'just' posting on a message board help this happen? Without true organization and most likely an armed revolution, how could you expect to turn a country into a socialist state? The people of American will not just hand over what little freedoms they have and just embrace the idea of socialism, will they? Lastly...how can you have a successful revolution without the masses support? Just FYI, I'm not attacking the idea, just seeking some answers.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Well without the masses you are right it can't really be done, therefore convicing the masses is one thing we must do. Yes you should read the manifesto...or at least outlines. Posting on message boards is getting arguments straight enough, or should I say flexible enough to stand up to right wing criticism, which it will have to face. Finally I think you have the wrong idea of what the majority here think about socialism. People woll not be giving up freedoms, they will be gaining them. Many here are extremely liberal, few are as authoritarian as todays capitalist government.

Also welcome on your virgin post comrade.

[Red Rising]

Would there be a place I could find this book, or perhaps 'outlines'? I have read the first chapter, and I wanted more. Anyway, you say people would be gaining freedom? What kind of freedoms would they gain? And about the masses again, how do you expect to advert their attention to us(if that would be an acceptable term), without mass speeches, protests and etc? Don't you think it would be time to start this - until waiting for a crisis to happen?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The Communist manifesto (http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html)

or you can find it in any large bookstore, or order it from any bookstore.

The worker will be free from exploitation by the bourgeoisie.

[Pete]

Man and Socialism in Cuba is an amazing read-in addition to being very informative on post-revolution government and society. It is archives here at Che-Lives

[Vinny Rafarino]

If you cannot gain the favour of the masses for mobilisation, then you must make it their only choice.

And yes...The Communist Manifesto and Man and Socialism are required reading. I recommend ready all literature penned by Che Guevara however. I also suggest The Stalin Era by Anna Louise Strong

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 12:38 pm on May 28, 2003)

[Totalitarian]

Socialism is kinship on a large scale. I would like to see a devolved, tribalism rather than the tyranny of international capital or its variants.

[Red Rising]

RAF - If you make it their only choice, you basically want to control them, right? I would think you would want them to favour you through your ideaology, rather then forcing or making them accept your way(s). Speaking of forced; you would have to have an armed revolution for the United States or you would have a horde of resistance. Then, like all governments, will be corrupt. You probably snap and thing "no, he's wrong - socialism is perfect". If we can't live in a perfect world, then nothng is perfect. Could it be true that Democracy is a step and that socialism is a backwards step? If we improve upon democracy, then maybe we could have a better government, higher then any socialism or democracy. Maybe I am just misguided? If so...show me the way.

[synthesis]

http://www.marxists.org

massive library of socialist works

[antieverything]

I recommend reading The Fall of the New Class if you want to see some of the problems with the USSR. There's actually a book that comes before it that I don't have...you may be better off reading it...The New Class.

[crazy comie]

Are you guys thinking about Socialism as in comunisum or as just extreame leftist Socialism.

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Red Rising on 7:26 pm on May 27, 2003
Let me begin by saying I am new. I am also seeking an intelligent discussion/answers. If I appear ignorant in some cases, that is because I have not read the full extent of any socialist works(i.e: Communist Manifesto) and maybe I should. I see talk of a "Socialist American" in some threads. Yet I sit and wonder, how can this be done and will 'just' posting on a message board help this happen? Without true organization and most likely an armed revolution, how could you expect to turn a country into a socialist state? The people of American will not just hand over what little freedoms they have and just embrace the idea of socialism, will they? Lastly...how can you have a successful revolution without the masses support? Just FYI, I'm not attacking the idea, just seeking some answers.


Will communism work? My short thesis, No.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2001.../08/13/001.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2001/08/13/001.html)

The economic reason is enough why Americans will not accept communism. Then take the authority required to make it run? Good luck. Don't forget the 2nd Amendment to protect citizens against authority.

Marx had an extremely clear and bold vision of the human condition. Especially given the time period it was written. The Manifesto is not a plan to run an economy or a factory. It is not a manual to train the future leaders who must deal with the day to day grind of running a business or government infrastructure. It contains guiding principles to run a business or government, but none of the application required to make one run. The example I used in another thread is that of a owners manual in the glove box of a car. The manual will show all the operator features of the car, it will not make you a mechanic. If you can not know the engineering of a car simply by being an expert with the opeators manual.


(Edited by kelvin9 at 3:34 pm on May 29, 2003)