Increased racism in the USA

[Dimentio]

I think the election of Obama can have a detrimental effect on minorities, given that the right-wing edge of the GOP could theoretically move more to the right, thus beginning to reach conclusions similar to those of Stormfront and the VNN.

Only today, Stormfront had about 75000 visits, and the site was actually down for a while due to big traffic.

I think that white supremacism is dying in the USA out of the obvious reasons that more and more Americans are multiracial or belong to the minority groups, but this diminishment of importance could be combined with increased radicalism from the shrinking white supremacist recruitment base.

Thus said, a lot of right-wing nutters might turn from fundamentalists into racist fundamentalists, and a possible revival of the militia movement is at hand. This might most likely not affect Obama's popularity, as the right-wing nutters are shed by most sensible people. But these insane conspirationists might decide to take out their frustration over at the new emperor is an African-American on the coloured minorities.

Do you think there is any basis for this theory?

[Elway]

I cannot see how America, or the world, for that matter, will do an about-face and stop the slow but steady inter-relationships between people of all ethnic backgrounds, especially where people act in an assimilated manner.

In fact, this is not good news for those in our movement (I'm not one of them), who expect to woo people to socialism, on the argument that capitalism is by its nature racist. I know many here will not agree with me, but it doesn't matter; the exit polling shows Americans are far less concerned over race than they were even 20 years ago.

We should ALWAYS stress, in my opinion, that the basis for our movement is the color "green". Those with more money, subjegatge those with less money, and ALL deserve to enjoy the riches of the world, not one class.

The ranks of the "anti-United States citizenship", of black Americans who are progressive, and try and convince other blacks to not assimilate in the USA, have been dealt a serious defeat, and they should recognize it.

Our argument MUST always be based on class. ALWAYS!

Yes, I know this is an oversimplification on my part, I merely say that today, more black Americans are proud of being Americans, and this has to be accepted.

Poverty, lack of jobs, a ruling class who owns our lives and our futures, for me, is what being a radical leftist is all about.

[The Douche]

I think the only people who are going to make a serious transition into the white nationalist movement are going to be people that already should've been there.

The right wing of the conservative side of US politics is composed mainly of two kinds of people closet racists in the tradition of southern democrats (Gov. Wallace style, states rights as a tool of the white bourgeoisie) and conspiracy nuts (who are largely non/anti-racist). There is some overlap usually on the "jewish issue". But the overlap isn't really that large.

The majority of the "militia movement" is in fact of the non-racist tendency. They fear "globalism" and the diminishing national sovreignty of the US. In fact I saw recently a major voice for the militia movement get ostracised from one of their major websites because of some anti-semitic comments.

That said, the "states rights" (aka segregationist) side of the movement does have an armed element and a "militia movement" of their own but it is not as numerous.

Back to the original topic. Those segregationists should have already been declaring themselves white nationalists, but hid behind the term "states rights" or in some cases "libertarian" or "constitutionalist", those people, I think, will make the move to the WN movement, largely in groups like the Council of Conservative Citizens, and the League of the South. But the anti-globalist and "New World Order" nuts are unlikely to hop in bed with the racists.

[AAFCE]

I believe if Obama fails to live up to his expectations, it may cause fence sitters to turn to the right thinking he (his race) failed to change anything, and never will.

Every little mistake he makes will be watched very closely.

[ChairmanArt]

The system of United States capitalism is founded on white supremacy. Race not being as important to the average American as it was 20 years ago is not so much a suggestion that racism has been overcome, merely that people have stopped paying attention; after all, infant mortality, unemployment, and incaraceration rates are astronomically higher while life expectancy, housing, and education standards are astronomically lower for people of color than for whites. The appointment of Obama to head of the empire and subsequent declaration of a "post-racial" society by the bourgeoisie and their mouthpieces is but a means of dismissing the fact that this system is white-supremacist regardless of its mass murderer-in-chief, and the struggles for liberation that could arise from anger at the white supremacist nature of the system.
As for a backlash of white-supremacist sentiment following Obama's election, I see that as very much being a possibility, and we revolutionaries must be there to oppose them at every step of the way, while of course also denouncing Obama as the bourgeois tool that he is.

[jake williams]

those in our movement ... who expect to woo people to socialism, on the argument that capitalism is by its nature racist
It's not about "wooing" - it's about people who believe that they're not racist but the effects of whose serious actions are. I just really, really hate hypocrisy, especially hypocrisy that's part of a system of oppression.

[Elway]

Capitalism throughout history: I've studied a lot of history and the exploitation of people by a ruling class is entirely possible without racism per se. Slavery, oppression, wage abuses, a monied class at the expense of the worker, war, poverty, and class division was invented during the Neolithic Period, when, for the first time, everyone didn't have to farm. This division of labor, and the rise of a ruling class that did not farm IS, for my money (cool joke, huh?), THE beginning of an economic system that became harmful to humans.

This occurred in western Africa just as it happened throughout Asia and what is today Mexico and Peru.

I can go on but (I hope) most of you know all this. The USA hardly invented racism, or slavery, or oppression, it simply has its version of it. If a magic wand removed ALL racism from the US today, capitalism would still be alive and well, and there would be a majority of working class people screwed by the system. Only revolutionary forces will, in my view, change this.

I don't think I'm going to convince some of you of my view, so we'll leave it at that. Since my lifetime, America has become less racist. I am talking about individual people and their relationships toward one another. It simply isn't 1955, or 1985 for the matter of that. As I've watched America become less racist, I have also watched the dissolving of what served as its middle class. This is my best argument, that the lessening of a race-based society does not "lead" to socialism. Socialism leads to socialism.

If you REALLY believe the USA is as "racist" today as it was in 1776, you are, for my money, on Pluto. If you begin a lecture with such a notion, who's going to believe you when you want to talk about class and equality?

[BraneMatter]

The majority of the "militia movement" is in fact of the non-racist tendency. They fear "globalism" and the diminishing national sovreignty of the US. In fact I saw recently a major voice for the militia movement get ostracised from one of their major websites because of some anti-semitic comments.



I'm glad you pointed this out. It would be a grave error to associate the militia movement with racism and the white supremacists. Granted, any group can call itself a militia, even a racist group, but the militia movement is not, on the whole, a racist movement. Most militias will kick you out for racist views. They are strict Constitutionalists (holding to the original intent doctrine), and their main fear is "the new world order" and a police state in the U.S. They are also strong supporters of the Second Amendment. Many in the movement are also "Christian fundamentalists" of one stripe or another.

Like most Americans, those in the militia movement generally have little knowledge of socialism, and they fear it because they believe all the anti-communist propaganda that has been the dominant 'patriotic' line especially since the end of WWII. So most in the militia movement are ardent supporters of capitalism.

Capitalism will always use racism, when it can get away with it, as a means of exploiting workers. Racism, then, is a device often used by capitalism, but its main aim is exploitation, and that must always be pointed out. Ending racism in a particular instance does nothing to change the nature of the capitalist system.

We miust always point out that while ending racism is certainly a worthy goal on its own, as socialists we have the larger goal of seeing capitalism itself vanish from the earth.

We must not forget, also, that ever since the first white European settlers arrived in the New World, racism and exploitation have been constant features of the various colonial and national political entities the white settlers established and ruled over.

[Incendiarism]

It's quite astonishing how people somehow reconcile the contradictions of Obama winning, because on one hand we have people who believe that he will eventually be assassinated(supposedly for reasons other than skin color), and on the other hand we have those who feel that minorities can no longer assert themselves. They both think racism is dead. :rolleyes:

[spice756]

I don't think I'm going to convince some of you of my view, so we'll leave it at that. Since my lifetime, America has become less racist. I am talking about individual people and their relationships toward one another. It simply isn't 1955, or 1985 for the matter of that. As I've watched America become less racist, I have also watched the dissolving of what served as its middle class. This is my best argument, that the lessening of a race-based society does not "lead" to socialism. Socialism leads to socialism.


There are still racist just a small amout:( to still cause big trouble in jobs like police ,court so on.If a area in any given city or area is 5% or 10% racist is still bad .Obama means a change than what the US was like before does not mean a big change the left will like.

And the US is still divided look at this election map and election map from all the election to the civil war of the north and south all the same.The south is very conservative and some may or may not be racist they fear communism and socialism and changes very slow.The other parts ar more moderate conservative and the ultra conservative is in the south..

If any one would talk about free healthcare in the 80's you would not get in not even 2% vote and talk about distribution wealth you would be killed in the 80's:( if you talk about distribution of wealth .

Yess communism and socialism are US enemies they gone to wars over it .Just look at the 60's the comminist and socialist put in jail and beaten by police.

If you tax the rich and business you would be laugh at and not get in.

Any social programs you would be painted a has a socialist.

Yes time has change in the US from the 60's but time changes slow in the US than other countries.

No way in the 70's and 80's say vote me in and I support.

1 free healthcare
2 distribution of wealth
3 tax the rich and business like mad
4 less tax to poor and working class.
5 social programs

Just the fact you talk about it and got in is a big miracle.No one in the 70's and 80's would vote you in not even 2% of the people.Even the fact you say one thing and do other when you in power.Do I believe Obama is going do those things no no no no no he is not .The business will corrupt him and he will represent the business not the people.

[redguard2009]

Blacks are still disproportionately represented in US jails. Minorities still require equality clauses in employment. Ethnic divides in the population are still as segregated and physically distinct as they were 20-30 years ago, with "white neighbourhoods" and "black neighbourhoods" and "hispanic neighbourhoods".

Racism may have been written out of the constitution, but like the situation faced by Jews throughout the world during the 20s and 30s, subtle yet far-reaching forms of "socially-accepted" racism still exist. Yes, we've got black Secretaries of State, Senators and now a President, but, as mentioned in the OP, we've still got sites like Stormfront as popular as ever, and while there is no coherent racist movement to speak of, minorities are still discriminated against.

This reminds me of some silly obscure news report I saw a couple of weeks ago where some reporters interviewed a few southern hicks down south. A couple of them were fervently anti-Obama on the basis that he was "a ni**er" and they didn't want "one of them" as President. Another, a woman, seemed disgusted by that attitude -- but then turned around and insulted Obama for being a Muslim. It was almost ironic; she was against racism against blacks (atleast enough to show distaste at racist remarks) but fully racist towards Muslims.

Also, she was a complete Hillary supporter. Lulz.

[jake williams]

I am talking about individual people and their relationships toward one another.
I think it's more racist to separate into gated communities than it is to be "racist" towards people whom you nevertheless actually live close enough to to be unpleasant to. I think essential beliefs behind the Vietnam War are way, way more racist than a lot of people who wouldn't vote for Barack Obama because he's black.


If you REALLY believe the USA is as "racist" today as it was in 1776, you are, for my money, on Pluto.
Racism functions differently. If you use a very narrow definition of racism, then I guess maybe, but I don't. I wouldn't compare them quantitatively because there are major systemic and ideological changes.

[KickMcCann]

Coming from a position that sees the election as managed and directed by the ruling class, I see the objective behind an Obama presidency as to envelop the African-American community into the greater population that identifies strongly as American, while also identifying the American government/ruling class as legitimate and sovereign.
The ruling class doesn't want a race war, that would be too dangerous/unprofitable for them. But they do treasure instability and fear, factors with which they can easily manipulate and direct the general population. Up until now, there has always been a steady undercurrent in the African-American community that mistrusted and rejected the American system and its rulers, Obama's election will severely reduce their influence and numbers.
The elite want a semi-unified population of workers and consumers to increase sales and productivity. To be honest, that's not a bad thing, if socialism or communism is supposed to emerge from capitalism, it can only happen when we on the bottom are not divided with petty differences and superstitions.
I do find it hilarious however, that the right-wingers who once proclaimed they were "proud to be an American" are now "ashamed to be an American" and have openly joined the secessionist ranks in Texas and Alaska in hopes of building an apocalyptic, theocratic, whites-only 'libertarian' state. But wait a minute, I thought this was "a dangerous time for America, and whether you like him or not, we all must rally around the president in this time of war" (their words not mine) :lol:

[Elway]

I see the objective behind an Obama presidency as to envelop the African-American community into the greater population that identifies strongly as American,

Thank you! (I love reading what I've written elsewhere. Ha!)

For those of you on the cool, cutting edge like I am, you're aware that there is a campaign to use the history of rap, in a series of DVDs, to explain racism against the black community in America. It's political objective is one from the medium-far left, and in some cases, has revolutionaries in its cause. Its main purpose is to work for black non-assimilation in the USA; to encourage black Americans not to sing the national anthem, or atempt to join the army, etc.

ONE of the results of the election is this plan has taken a major hit, and this must be admitted. More black Americans polled today believe their children can be U.S. President, over 60%. This would not have been believed as recently as 20 years ago.

As this belief becomes part of the American psyche, it works to lessen racism. The mind must move FIRST, before the body will. "Fighting racism", in my view, is far more mental than physical. I suppose that view can be challenged, with statistics about black males youths incarceration and poverty levels, but it's just the way I think. Others will argue that the physical is more important; I believe people move toward that once the mental sinks in.

Forty years ago, it would be impossible for me to surround myself with non-racist people. They were just that numerous. My father tells me while he never used the word ni**er, he heard it used by a lot of other people, and you couldn't construct your life patttern to avoid such people. Now, if someone uses that term, you can tell them to go fuck themselves and continue surrounding yourself with those who believe that all people are equal.

I started my comments (way up there) stating that I couldn't see how America would ever do an about face from its move toward less racism. That's all I said. I stick to it. I realize there are a lot of statitics and facts you can show to demonstrate there is racism in the USA. Obviously.

But to challenge what I wrote, you have to take one of two positions:

1. America has not slowly lessened racism from 1776 onward.

2. America WILL do an about face, and roll back the changes made since 1776 onward.

[jake williams]

But to challenge what I wrote, you have to take one of two positions:

1. America has not slowly lessened racism from 1776 onward.

2. America WILL do an about face, and roll back the changes made since 1776 onward.
No. I'm arguing for a qualitative change rather than a quantitative change. It's a fundamental logical difference, and it's neither of your two "positions".

[Elway]

No. I'm arguing for a qualitative change rather than a quantitative change. It's a fundamental logical difference, and it's neither of your two "positions".

If you asked 100 black man or woman, chosen at random, whether they believed their lives were qualitatively changed for the better, in realtion to blacks living in 1955, my argument is that 85% would say it has. Either measurement, makes no difference.

Remeber, that "racism" can also be discussed in terms of other means, too. Fewer "white" Americans probably believe they would be chosen for a job over a black person today, compared to 1955.

The quality of life, and the quantities on life, are better today for non-whites, as a general rule, than it was in 1888, 1925, and 1955.

[jake williams]

If you asked 100 black man or woman, chosen at random, whether they believed their lives were qualitatively changed for the better, in realtion to blacks living in 1955, my argument is that 85% would say it has. Either measurement, makes no difference.
Well shit, sure, but an Iraqi wouldn't - in fact, even a conservative American Arab might not. Also, while it's better than how it was in the 50s, it's not near as much so as white people tend to think it is in their infinite self-fascination.

[Elway]

Well shit, sure, but an Iraqi wouldn't - in fact, even a conservative American Arab might not. Also, while it's better than how it was in the 50s, it's not near as much so as white people tend to think it is in their infinite self-fascination.

Jammoe,

You really have to go back to the top of this thread and learn about my motives for my comments. Serpent asked the forum whether it were possible that the Obama victory could create an increase in racism. While racism can be discussed in many ways, THIS specific thread has (based on Serpent's opening comment) an African-American aspect to it, and so I addressed my answer to meet his question.

Asking an Iraqi (meaning someone living in Iraq), as you suggest, about African-American facism in the 50s, versus today, doesn't seem to serve our discussion in any way. Frankly, you lost me on that one.


Fewer "white" Americans probably believe they would be chosen for a job over a black person today, compared to 1955.


I remind you of this quote of mine because if you believe white Americans still view themselves as being on top of the world 'cause they're white, you haven't talked to many people under 30. Many don't even have a color consiousness. Obviously, racism in the USA is alive and well, but the percentage of people who think they're the shit, BECAUSE they are white, is less today than it was in, let's say, 1972. If you don't know this, or feel this, we are on different planets. You can find ALL SORTS of racists in America, and throughout the world. But every 5 years, IN MY OPINION, WITH NOTHING TO SUPPORT IT, I believe this decreases.

And I also believe what Serpent wrote up top will not happen, which was the reason for my comments in the first place.

Thank you for the:
Well shit, sure I needed to know we had some frame of agreement.

[Guerrilla22]

I don't know how the right in the US could possibly move more to the right. They've always been racist and homophobic, they just attempt to disguise their hatred, well some do. The right really doesn't have a choice, they're going to either have to accept that Obama is the leader of the country, move to another country, or kill themselves. The latter two options are most preferable from my standpoint.

[ev]

I think President Obama will get assassinated, probably because of his skin color than his politics. Alot of conservative superficial white supremacists still exist in the US, there is no denying this. I know definately that alot of african americans voted for Obama due to the fact that he was african american. Same was with Hill-dawg, pro-feminists voted for her and not because of her politics but because she was a woman. To me the 2008 US presidential election was one of trivial characteristics and not of politcal differences which is rather degrading. I think President Obama is better than that simple-minded pro Cold-war II fool.. Anyway, even though because of trivialality Obama's victory he is still the lesser of two evils.

[Elway]

I think President Obama will get assassinated, probably because of his skin color than his politics. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidential_assassination_a ttempts)

There have been many assassination attempts of U.S. Presidents. You don't have to be a black man to get shot at while in office.

wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidential_assassination_a ttempts

[ev]

Thats true but I think Obama will set a record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2U_KRpz5NY
:laugh:

[E.F. Mohammed Martinez]

The rightwing republican party is more dangerous now!

BEWARE Revolutionary Left Comrades! Make no mistake how the Racist Xenophobe RepublicsKKKum adversary is not going away anytime soon! After losing the Presidential elections with Barack Obama as the soon-to-be President of the U.S., and a Black man to add insult to "their" injuries, the white supremacist enemies will not rest until "their" white supremacist virtues are "vindicated"!

"If you ignore them, ...they will go away!" Yea, ...right! Now, where have we heard that phrase before?! Wasn't that what the German Jews used to think of the Brown Shirt Nazi goons who were at Adolf Hitler's behest and direct orders to terrorize Germany's Jewish population in 1936? We all know what happened thereafter in 1941, ...don't we?!
NEVER underestimate these racist enemies creatures of habit! When Barack Obama was voted overwhelmingly and declared the next President elect, many rightwing adherents, mostly white bigoted uneducated Mayberry RFD male types and their GOP "leaders" were already organizing and plotting everso eagerly how to retake the White House through more hatemongering, fear and whatever it takes to accomplish their macabre and sinister political coup d' etat within the electorial American VOTERS!

It's up to US Revolutionaries of the Left who are committed to the People's Struggle, ...not only in rhetoric, but in revolutionary deeds! Get involved and organize in your immediate communities or at-large.

President Obama hopefully might and might not turn out to be OUR "Progressive" cup of tea in the final outcome, but for the moment this is all we got going for our oppressed people of America now. I strongly suggest WE Revolutionaries of the Left must take a "wait and see" attitude until our soon-to-be President Obama implements his on hands policy after January 20, 2009, Inauguration Day.

However, if anyone has noticed how CNN and other media news reports have exposed how white racist Americans, are using the facade excuse that; "Obama will enact laws that will curtail the present Gun Shops to go out of business when he (Obama) restricts the sale of guns and gun ownership per se."

I have witnessed on the television news media how most Gun Shops throughout America are almost full of mostly aggressive white males standing in line by the ringing sound of cash registers throughout the nation!

After a careful analysis of this gun buying spree phenomenon, it has come to mind that usually these ilk mindset types of "John Wayne" gun toting loving white "conservative" people at most Gun Shops are just covering themselves of their real sinister motives of gun hoarding by accusing the soon-to-be President Obama's new possible "strict gun laws".

In reality I assume that these same racist looking people are just stocking up with these guns because they are in the erroneous warped belief of an "impending race war" between "them" and the "non-white mongrel mud people" (Blacks, Browns, Yellow, Red, etc)! I am in the belief this is white racist America's worst case scenario once Obama takes office as U.S. President!

This is the year for ALL oppressed people of America, including progressive poor non-racist whites, to be vigilant and ready for these bigoted racist wounded losers to commence their vicious verbal and even physical attacks enmasse on those who do not look like "them"! Keep your powder dry Comrades!
I sincerely hope that this worst case scenario is just a figment of my imagination, but nevertheless, after hearing our racist enemies rabidly ranting and raving on "conservative" (intolerant racist) talk radio, I gather it's best to be on the lookout for any move "they" make.

POWER TO ALL OPPRESSED PEOPLE!
"IF IT'S A GOOD FIGHT, ...I WANT TO BE IN IT!"
SI SE PUDO! / YES WE DID!
HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! / TILL VICTORY FOREVER!

E.F. Mohammed Martinez=WHITE RACIST AMERIKKKA'S WORST NIGHTMARE!



:hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle: :hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle: :hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle: :hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle: :hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle: :hammersickle::hammersickle::hammersickle:

[Elway]

"Obama will enact laws that will curtail the present Gun Shops to go out of business when he (Obama) restricts the sale of guns and gun ownership per se."


Just to help any idiot who believes this statement, the President of the United States does not enact laws. Congress enacts laws.

Where Congress has not acted in certain situations, or where Congress has given authority to the executive, the President can issue an executive order.

The issues raised in this quote, dealing with gun shops, have already been ruled by the Supreme Court under Lopez, to be a state issue, where the president and Congress have no power to act re: local sales of guns. O'Conner wrote the majority opinion, and it is still good law.

I know that ultra-right wing idiots like KKK types and racist organizations "believe" the President enacts laws 'cause they didn't get passed the third grade. If these jokers had half a brain they'd be dangerous. I guess I don't believe they can get their trucks off their cinder blooks and get them working, let alone organize a political movement.