Why has America's army done to earn so much respect? - they [Archive]

Tasha

24th May 2003, 09:48

The 1 million figure of american soldiers dieing is complete bullshit propaganda that they pulled out of their ass. Seriously ask yourself how long would it take for that many soldiers to die in a war? Yea probably around 50 years of some fast dieing or some very unreasonable infantry tactics.

Anyways how do you think americans would feel, if say russia nuked new york city and los angelous. Then russian citizens believed it was the right humane thing to do because it saved some oftheir soldiers. This example clearly shows that americans that support the atomic bombing are clearly biased or uneducated.

The united states waste their budget. for the damage they do to the enemy money wise they always spend a huge amount more with the bombs , missles etc that they use. in some cases 10 times more

Invader Zim

24th May 2003, 11:27

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 5:35 am on May 24, 2003
We have the most highly-trained and technologically advanced military on Earth. We alone spend over $400 billion in military expidentures. The only nation that comes close to that is Russia with a meager $80 Billion.

We have the most highly-trained

Actually no you dont. The UK's standard army has an equil training program to the US elite units such as the Rangers. UK special forces have far higher training than any US unit.

The Isreili army special forces have far higher training than any US unit.

RAM

24th May 2003, 12:26

Quote: from AK47 on 11:27 am on May 24, 2003

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 5:35 am on May 24, 2003
We have the most highly-trained and technologically advanced military on Earth. We alone spend over $400 billion in military expidentures. The only nation that comes close to that is Russia with a meager $80 Billion.

We have the most highly-trained

Actually no you dont. The UK's standard army has an equil training program to the US elite units such as the Rangers. UK special forces have far higher training than any US unit.

The Isreili army special forces have far higher training than any US unit.

Yep! I saw this thing were our RAF piliots were much better than the US and we won this US V UK Championship and the US were so embarrased that thye presented the award after the UK piliots had gone home!
We also train others armys in the world e.g. Zimbabwe!

PS Under the Neo-Conervatives US Defence Spending has incresed by 25%! To fight there "war on terrorism!"

CubanFox

24th May 2003, 12:45

Training the Zimbabwean army is not exactly something to be proud of...Mugabe uses it to intimidate his people.

RAM

24th May 2003, 13:59

No it is not but it is the point that they were trained by us as being a good standard of traning!

nz revolution

24th May 2003, 14:21

You must have seen the interviews with the U$ soldiers in Iraq? Some of them had the IQ of a pea.

One said he wanted to get his nose dirty and get a bit of revenge for 9/11. The reporter said the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia not Iraq. Then the yank said "That stuff is way over my head"

What he doesn't understand the concept of borders and nationalities? Only how to fire a gun and obey orders. He sounds highly trained doesn't he?

RAM

24th May 2003, 15:09

The ONLY good thing about the US military is that they can get you loads of equipment but its shit tranning! Where as the Brits have a smaller but highly highly trained Army!

Dr. Rosenpenis

24th May 2003, 15:51

I honestly believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki did save lives on both sides in the long run. I do not believe however that it was the right thing to do. And I'll be the first to admit that most Americans would rather sacrifice a hundred enemy lives for one American life. I don't condone it in any way. But when you develope a way to change history that happened 40 years before I was born let me be the first to know and I'll help you change it. Using nukes was wrong, but someone was bound to do it eventually. It sucks, but thats the way it is.

It sickens me to see another fellow Communist even sympathizing with the idea of killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in a military conflict. How can you compare the deaths of american soldiers to the death of Japanese civilians?

lostsoul

24th May 2003, 16:05

We have the most highly-trained and technologically advanced military on Earth. We alone spend over $400 billion in military expidentures. The only nation that comes close to that is Russia with a meager $80 Billion.

I don’t think money makes a huge difference, in the korea war(admit it or not), china took America. China was a poor country, poor equipment for their soliders, bad living conditions, and they recently took over a government that just collapsed. And yet they took on America, Austrial, Britain, Canada(and I think one more country). There is no way you can say that, even at that time, China’s military budget was even 5% of Americians.

We also tend to bomb people so that they die instead of our soldiers. We use technology as much as possible to avoid our own casualties. Its just more logical that way I suppose.

This shows the American stupidity, they do that, yet when people try to do guerrilla warfare or sabotage they denounce it as terrorism.

Bush sought to build a coalition of allied nations before going in. If we had wanted to, we could have easily removed the Taliban ourselves.

Actually I don’t think so, the Afgan way of fighting is different then the Iraqi way, Iraq used regular forces and fought. Afgans are using Guerrilla warfare, and from a report I read, I heard they have enough weapons to last them at least 15 years. They also have experience with fighting with the soviets also. I personally don’t think the average solider is as well fit to fight as the average afgan gurillia. (for more on this topic, read “afgan guerrilla warfare”, the fighters themselves talk about their tactics..very intresting.) Americian forces still cannot capture bin laden or Mullah Omar, and many many sources say that Mullah Omar is still in Afganistan. I read a month ago, that it said during the afgan war, he signed some pact which will make all the Taliban go back into gurillia warfare mode, that’s why the cities were captured so easily, but like every week you hear about a rocket being shot at the predients house, or soliders dying.

Zombie

24th May 2003, 18:27

Bush sought to build a coalition of allied nations before going in. If we had wanted to, we could have easily removed the Taliban ourselves.

Who was talking about allied nations? The afghans liberated themselves.

We alone spend over $400 billion in military expidentures.

Money! Money! Money!

Hate Is Art

24th May 2003, 20:08

have you noticed America only gets involved when their interests are threatened. WW1 the Lusitania, WW2 Pearl Habour, AFGHAN 11/9, IRAQ oil, 'NAM and KOREA Communism spreading the truth.

Blibblob

24th May 2003, 20:34

"We alone spend over $400 billion in military expidentures."
Holy shit, I didn't think it was that much. Damn, and I had some stupid patriotic war-mongers saying that the military was underbudgeted and the education system overbudgeted. And straight from the horses mouth "$400 billion".

Dirty Jersey

24th May 2003, 20:38

VictorCommie, I specifically said that I did not condone this action. I also said that the majority of the populace would rather kill others. They were just pissed about Pearl Harbor. And on another note I do not consider myself a communist yet. Give me time and I'll slowly change.

Anonymous

24th May 2003, 21:22

Actually it's more like $275 billion (thanks to clinton). However , new legistlation has been passed recently that will increase the military's budget to $400 billion by around 2006.

Anonymous

24th May 2003, 21:32

Quote: from lostsoul on 4:51 am on May 24, 2003
North korea(korean war), Iraq, afganistan, Serbia, Vietnam,etc..

Anyone notice they take on seriously weaker countries?

and if there is a even a slight chance of them losing they pussy out and just bomb their opponents?

So why do people think highly of america's army? I would think Germany's, soviet, or china's army would get more respect for doing so much damage to stronger armies.

So where does this respect/fear come from?

Weaker countries? Check again. Each one of them had strengths. Each one of those countries may have had weakness in economy, population, etc, but none of them had any dimished ability to wage war.

Were does it say when you wage war that you must attack an enemy where they are strongest? No sane military leader in 10, 000 years of human hisstory will attack an enemy at their strongest when they have the option of attacking an enmey were they are weakest.

RAM

24th May 2003, 22:49

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:22 pm on May 24, 2003
Actually it's more like $275 billion (thanks to clinton). However , new legistlation has been passed recently that will increase the military's budget to $400 billion by around 2006.

Yeah cos of your neo-conservative hawks!

Blibblob

24th May 2003, 22:58

In my opinion, $275 billion is too much, $400 billion is like flooding the world with oppression...

lostsoul

25th May 2003, 21:57

Quote: from kelvin9 on 9:32 pm on May 24, 2003
Were does it say when you wage war that you must attack an enemy where they are strongest? No sane military leader in 10, 000 years of human hisstory will attack an enemy at their strongest when they have the option of attacking an enmey were they are weakest.

What your saying is correct, but i don't see that as any reason to fear the americian army.

Its just like an adult going to a playground and picking on children. Those people never get respect, they only get fucked up later on.

CubaVictoria1983

25th May 2003, 22:01

Quote: from Victorcommie on 9:23 pm on May 23, 2003
Americans claim the defeat of the Nazis as an American achievement, Americans are over-patriotic, Americans are conceited, Americans can't compare the U$ army to any otehr army because they're too conceited to care or even know what goes on in the rest of the world.

I agree 100% with that post.
They are very arrogant and believe they can conquer the world, hence why they have been trying for so long. It's kind of sad if you ask me.

Pete

25th May 2003, 22:25

I think the American is respected-fearfully- because of their leaders. The cowboy pretension (which is a fabrication of historical truths in order to create a 'history' that does not exist...the Alamo for example...) is alive in their leaders. Truman talked another President out of dropping 'tatical bombs' on Vietnemese troops prior to the Vietnam War. It is only slightly moderate (although Truman is a bad example) advisors that contain America's rage at everyone from breaking loose and destroying the world in the blizzards of atomic winter (they are the only nation to drop nuclear missiles in hostility)

Zombie

26th May 2003, 05:43

but none of them had any dimished ability to wage war.

Like war torn Afghanistan eh? I'm sure those poor bastards could invade France or China if they wanted to!

Were does it say when you wage war that you must attack an enemy where they are strongest? No sane military leader in 10, 000 years of human hisstory will attack an enemy at their strongest when they have the option of attacking an enmey were they are weakest.

12 years of embargos and sanctions in order to reduce a country to rubbles and ashes, then invading it, calling that a war and then screaming VICTORY! VICTORY! at the end is very sane, wouldn't you think?

.A.

ps: Truman was a piece of dogshit, he is one of the best example of how blood thirsty the U$ is.

(Edited by Zombie at 12:44 am on May 26, 2003)

Guardia Bolivariano

26th May 2003, 06:00

The US had 3 real wars.
2 of them in the XIX century agaisnt the UK, in wich the US had strong allies and a enemy that had to fight numerous enemies at once.

The other war was ww2 the americans came in late in that war and they were provided with bases by the UK and strong allies like the USSR.

In the pacific well they had to resort to nukes.

American military history might be full of victories but little honor.

Saint-Just

26th May 2003, 17:23

They create their own respect. It appears to us that there is worldwide praise for them because they are such a big army and a big imperialist power that the image they create for themselves inevitably effects everyone and becomes the norm everywhere as is the nature of imperialism.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 01:38

Quote:
In the pacific well they had to resort to nukes.

American military history might be full of victories but little honor.

Everywhere around the world, when you see an 18 year old with a rifle standing on a street corner, it is bad news. It means: rape, looting, torture, revenge, etc.

A 18 year old USGI with his service rifle on a street corner means cholate bars and saftey. Ask any country that has been defeated by the USGIs in the last 100 years where did the very young children get thier first taste of cholate. Can any other army in the world claim to have given away more cholate bars to children? Why?

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 02:01

People here seem to conveniently forget about the Berlin airlift and how U.S. C-54s dropped package loads of candy and chocolate for the children.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 9:02 pm on May 26, 2003)

lostsoul

27th May 2003, 02:04

Quote: from kelvin9 on 1:38 am on May 27, 2003

Quote:
In the pacific well they had to resort to nukes.

American military history might be full of victories but little honor.

Everywhere around the world, when you see an 18 year old with a rifle standing on a street corner, it is bad news. It means: rape, looting, torture, revenge, etc.

A 18 year old USGI with his service rifle on a street corner means cholate bars and saftey. Ask any country that has been defeated by the USGIs in the last 100 years where did the very young children get thier first taste of cholate. Can any other army in the world claim to have given away more cholate bars to children? Why?

destory people's revolutions, take away their freedom, and use them for mere economic resources.

But as long as your the top supplier of chocalate bars everything bad you do is forgotten!

If America ever fights china or any country actually able to defend herself, then maybe uncle sam should turn to oh henry to support the war. Instead of rockets, just launch "cripy crunch". Maybe Willy Wonka can be your general.

What are you basing your stupidy on? a few pictures from the war in iraq, when a few americians gave candy to iraqi's? You notice they seemed to do it while infront of the camera? The Camera man capturing all that was not by mistake.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 02:31

Quote: from lostsoul on 2:04 am on May 27, 2003

Quote: from kelvin9 on 1:38 am on May 27, 2003

Quote:
In the pacific well they had to resort to nukes.

American military history might be full of victories but little honor.

Everywhere around the world, when you see an 18 year old with a rifle standing on a street corner, it is bad news. It means: rape, looting, torture, revenge, etc.

A 18 year old USGI with his service rifle on a street corner means cholate bars and saftey. Ask any country that has been defeated by the USGIs in the last 100 years where did the very young children get thier first taste of cholate. Can any other army in the world claim to have given away more cholate bars to children? Why?

destory people's revolutions, take away their freedom, and use them for mere economic resources.

But as long as your the top supplier of chocalate bars everything bad you do is forgotten!

If America ever fights china or any country actually able to defend herself, then maybe uncle sam should turn to oh henry to support the war. Instead of rockets, just launch "cripy crunch". Maybe Willy Wonka can be your general.

What are you basing your stupidy on? a few pictures from the war in iraq, when a few americians gave candy to iraqi's? You notice they seemed to do it while infront of the camera? The Camera man capturing all that was not by mistake.

Read the post above your own. You have forgotten the Berlin Airlift in one post.

Ask Tibetian children if they feel safe asking a Red Chinese soldier for a cholate bar.

Tibet? You know the country full a pacifist monks. Where the ones that did not escape died in prison. Why did China use machine guns to invade a country full of pacifist. Could it be imperialism?

Here is what honorable Communist do to pacificst:
http://www.meaus.com/Dalai_Lama_My_Dream_for_Ti.html

(Edited by kelvin9 at 2:35 am on May 27, 2003)

Pete

27th May 2003, 02:42

The Berlin Airlift I know of.

Still you claim your respect is through chocolate bars. So that later kids will buy those bars during their breaks from the sweat shops.

This line of arguement has nothing to do with the thread.

America's army is respected with fear, and that is about it. Except by those business men they have liberated and the dictators who profit as thier people toil.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 03:08

What I see in the previous post is a disdain for American victory and superiority.

Seatshops? How has the US Department of Defense dishonored itself in cobat? Do you mean USGIs round up children and put them in seatshops?

You point your accusations in the wrong direction. Take it up witht he owners of the seatshop, not with the Department of Defense or the USGI who serve.

Communist military have a history of fighting without honor. Ask the Tibetians.

Then ask any 13 year German girl in Berlin in April 1945. What would her chance of getting a cholate bar from USGIs and what would be her chances of getting gang raped by Russians.

Pete

27th May 2003, 03:19

and that was, what, 58 years ago?

America has used cluster bombs in thier last engagement. They have ruined a nation and are now letting the warlords pick over the scraps. You seem obsessed with the fact that you give kids chocolate bars, but what about fruit, or other things that will help them become strong? Many of the US engagements are in nations that then begin to produce cash crops for them that the populance cannot use and then they starve. And of course then you have people like Maj. Ollie North. Selling drugs to American teens to fund a war in Nicarauga that targeted 'soft targets' such as schools and hospitals. Yes. No disgrace there. Or in the running over of Japanese children in occupied Okiwana, and then being relocated from the island without courtmartial. Or perhaps the use of napalm against the Vietnemese after the people there rose up against an American puppet who refused to hold elections. Perhaps you have forgotten the use of unmanned aircraft to bomb a car in Yemen, or the bombing of that pharmectucal plant in Sudan when they where producing affordable drugs for their people. Oh yes how could I forget the treatment of POW's in Guatemalo Bay, Cuba. Or the Bay of Pigs where they decided not to support the counter revolutionaries they trained. Or when they did nto support the uprisings in Iraq after the first Gulf War, or currently in Iraq how they are not letting Iraqi's access their jobs at the ministry of oil, and still haven't returned utilities to many areas of the nation? I must have forgotten how honourable it is two bomb a nation into the stone age, one that they watched commit genocide with American-supplied weapons none the less, twice in 12 years. Not to mention of course the forces that are training Columbian paramilitaries who are now attempting to invade Veneuzula in order to oust a leftist government or the fact that the American army staged the rescue of a female private?

Pete

27th May 2003, 03:23

Btw, Department of Defense. Isn't that one Orwellian masterpiece? Doublespeak all the way ^_^

There are reports of sweatshops being located on US airbases in the 3rd world so that companies can honestly say 'made in America' on the tags. But of course sweat shops exist in north america anyways, and labels are put on in America and not in the nation where they orginiate (this is irrelevant, apologies.)

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 03:38

Quote: from CrazyPete on 3:23 am on May 27, 2003
Btw, Department of Defense. Isn't that one Orwellian masterpiece? Doublespeak all the way ^_^

There are reports of sweatshops being located on US airbases in the 3rd world so that companies can honestly say 'made in America' on the tags. But of course sweat shops exist in north america anyways, and labels are put on in America and not in the nation where they orginiate (this is irrelevant, apologies.)

Can you name the US airbase? The manufacturer? I would like to find out more beyond what I can find here.

Pete

27th May 2003, 03:39

I can talk to my teacher tomorrow and find out. I believe it is in Indonesia and it is Nike.

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 03:40

Let's recap some of the highlights from our capitalist schweinhunt's posts:

"I honestly believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki did save lives on both sides in the long run."

Not from a capitalist...but a mistake posting none the less....Whoops...I bet he wishes he can take this one back!!

Actually it's more like $275 billion (thanks to clinton). However , new legistlation has been passed recently that will increase the military's budget to $400 billion by around 2006.

Good old DC...What a twat...400 billion?? After 12 years of economic sanctions, I could have occupied Iraq with 8 quid and a pellet rifle.

Everywhere around the world, when you see an 18 year old with a rifle standing on a street corner, it is bad news. It means: rape, looting, torture, revenge, etc.
A 18 year old USGI with his service rifle on a street corner means cholate bars and saftey. Ask any country that has been defeated by the USGIs in the last 100 years where did the very young children get thier first taste of cholate. Can any other army in the world claim to have given away more cholate bars to children? Why?

Can you believe this fucking Kelvin guy? He's talking about giving out chocolate bars...I wish I could just smack da taste out dis fools mouth...Like there's no rape, looting and torture in his country...another twat.

People here seem to conveniently forget about the Berlin airlift and how U.S. C-54s dropped package loads of candy and chocolate for the children.

Again Kelvin with the fucking candy argument...If at first you don't succeed Kelvin.....Have that Coke and a smile and SHUT THE FUCK UP!

cheers lads

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 03:40

The USA has NO airbase in Indonesia.

Pete

27th May 2003, 03:42

As I said I have to talk with my teacher.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 03:44

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 3:40 am on May 27, 2003
Let's recap some of the highlights from our capitalist schweinhunt's posts:

"I honestly believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki did save lives on both sides in the long run."
cheers lads

Sorry you got the wrong capitalist. That is not my quote.

Pete

27th May 2003, 03:46

Now Kelvin, if that isn't a gross misquote I do not know what is.

He said: Let's recap some of the highlights from our capitalist schweinhunt's posts:

"I honestly believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki did save lives on both sides in the long run."

Not from a capitalist...but a mistake posting none the less....Whoops...I bet he wishes he can take this one back!!

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 03:49

Whoops...guess I made his pussy hurt....poor Kelvin...READ THEM FIRST!

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 03:50

Cholate bars? I am making a point about the honor and behavior of US service men in occupied countries. Since this is about the honor of the US military. Someone needs to stand up for them here on this Memorial Day.

Again check the behavior and honor of communist soldiers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/berlin_05.shtml

http://www.meaus.com/Dalai_Lama_My_Dream_for_Ti.html

If communist honor is what USGIs strive to reach, then heaven help as all.

(Edited by kelvin9 at 3:51 am on May 27, 2003)

Pete

27th May 2003, 03:54

and what do you have to say to my list of American honourable actions?

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:03

Check the last page Kelvin ...Or did you conveinently forget pete's posting was there....how do you right-wingers put it??

"I have no recollection of that event"

Still a fucking twat this bastard is.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:05

Quote: from CrazyPete on 3:46 am on May 27, 2003
Now Kelvin, if that isn't a gross misquote I do not know what is.

He said: Let's recap some of the highlights from our capitalist schweinhunt's posts:

"I honestly believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki did save lives on both sides in the long run."

Not from a capitalist...but a mistake posting none the less....Whoops...I bet he wishes he can take this one back!!

Please take that up with the capitalist who said it.

Pete

27th May 2003, 04:07

He said it wasn't a capitalist for fucks sake man! Read what we are fucking writing! Tired. Starting to flame. I am off for the night, but be sure to reply to those 'honourable' deeds I listed s'il vous plas(with the tent thing over the a).

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:11

I reckon you feel like Iraq right now Kelvin...superior firepower coming from all angles.....I'd hate to be you

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:20

Quote: Let's recap some of the highlights from our capitalist schweinhunt's posts:

"I honestly believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki did save lives on both sides in the long run."

I dare the both of you to find the orginal post where I said that. Your writting a scripted lie than calling it my words.

(Edited by kelvin9 at 4:22 am on May 27, 2003)

Pete

27th May 2003, 04:22

WE DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT FUCK OFF AND READ WHAT WE FUCKING SAY... ahh that feels good. Now please, kelvin, do us a favour and read ok?

Dirty Jersey

27th May 2003, 04:22

I'm pretty sure I said that.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:25

Quote: from CrazyPete on 4:22 am on May 27, 2003
WE DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT FUCK OFF AND READ WHAT WE FUCKING SAY... ahh that feels good. Now please, kelvin, do us a favour and read ok?

Thank you. Can you then name another "capitalist schweinhunt'" here? Take it up with Dirty Jersey.

(Edited by kelvin9 at 4:27 am on May 27, 2003)

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:25

Yes jersey you did mate...I just did not want to bring too much attention to a fellow comrade...just wanted to touch on it a little....the other tossers...fuck 'em.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:26

What's a schwienhunt?

Zombie

27th May 2003, 04:26

Chocolate bars?
You lost all credibilty you might have had in the past with that hilarious example of yours. God bless those Hershey bars eh!

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:27

Read Swein!

the other mentioned cappie...DC

DARK CAPITALIST....for fuck's sake man...do we have you that flustered??

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:31

Quote:
The united states waste their budget. for the damage they do to the enemy money wise they always spend a huge amount more with the bombs , missles etc that they use. in some cases 10 times more

It is not wasted. The USA has always been very happy to provide US service men what ever they want if it will protect them. The USA has the philosophy that is it much better to spend the money instead of spending lives. So you have a problem of with that? Then maybe we should just save the money because graveyards are cheaper than smart bombs.

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:32

Here's the whole post for you again Kelvin...read it.

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 3:40 am on May 27, 2003
Let's recap some of the highlights from our capitalist schweinhunt's posts:

"I honestly believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki did save lives on both sides in the long run."
(NOTICE HERE I DO NOT MENTION YOU)
Not from a capitalist...but a mistake posting none the less....Whoops...I bet he wishes he can take this one back!!

Actually it's more like $275 billion (thanks to clinton). However , new legistlation has been passed recently that will increase the military's budget to $400 billion by around 2006.

Good old DC...What a twat...400 billion?? After 12 years of economic sanctions, I could have occupied Iraq with 8 quid and a pellet rifle.

Everywhere around the world, when you see an 18 year old with a rifle standing on a street corner, it is bad news. It means: rape, looting, torture, revenge, etc.
A 18 year old USGI with his service rifle on a street corner means cholate bars and saftey. Ask any country that has been defeated by the USGIs in the last 100 years where did the very young children get thier first taste of cholate. Can any other army in the world claim to have given away more cholate bars to children? Why?

Can you believe this fucking Kelvin guy? He's talking about giving out chocolate bars...I wish I could just smack da taste out dis fools mouth...Like there's no rape, looting and torture in his country...another twat.

People here seem to conveniently forget about the Berlin airlift and how U.S. C-54s dropped package loads of candy and chocolate for the children.

Again Kelvin with the fucking candy argument...If at first you don't succeed Kelvin.....Have that Coke and a smile and SHUT THE FUCK UP!

cheers lads

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:36

Quote: from Zombie on 4:26 am on May 27, 2003
Chocolate bars?
You lost all credibilty you might have had in the past with that hilarious example of yours. God bless those Hershey bars eh!

Yes God bless the Hershey bars.

Commie soldiers should at least do the women in occupied countries and wear a condom when they rape them:

"up to two million German women were raped during the last six months of the Second World War"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/berlin_05.shtml

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:38

[/quote]It is not wasted. The USA has always been very happy to provide US service men what ever they want if it will protect them. The USA has the philosophy that is it much better to spend the money instead of spending lives. So you have a problem of with that? Then maybe we should just save the money because graveyards are cheaper than smart bombs.
[/quote]

I have a better idea. Stop imperialistic politics. Sound good Aga Kahn? Oh I forgot...you yanquees just love killin' brown folk...ahhhhh....to be alive....A little killin' of some brown folk...a pitcher of Bud Lite and a few hours bowlin'.....now that's living the American dream..

Kelvin, you're still a twat.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:44

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 4:32 am on May 27, 2003
Here's the whole post for you again Kelvin...read it.

I am pretty sure we agree I did not post that quote. Your comrade did. So then Dirty Jersey is a capitalist schweinhunt? So then did I miss read the top line? Or what? Is there another capitalist schweinhunt you have in mind?

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:46

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:48

I have a better idea. Stop imperialistic politics

Sure when Red China stops thier imperialistic expansion in Tibet.

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:53

you're very obtuse Kelvin.

READ THE ENTIRE POST....NOTICE THE "NOT FROM A CAPITALIST" PART....

I'm done explaining it to you. I would have better luck with a chimp.

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 04:57

you're talking about stopping the spread if imperialism....shortly after you country has occupied another...how could you even bring it up?? You should of known I would respond with this post...you are such a fool....I guess predicting any type of human response or behaviour is above your intellectual capacity.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 04:59

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 4:53 am on May 27, 2003
you're very obtuse Kelvin.

READ THE ENTIRE POST....NOTICE THE "NOT FROM A CAPITALIST" PART....

I'm done explaining it to you. I would have better luck with a chimp.

And you were very unclear. Read the first three lines yourself. Is the quote recapping a capitalist schweinhunt or not?

Zombie

27th May 2003, 05:03

Kelvin? I guess all your fellow countrymen aren't rapers after all. Since you live in a nation under a god, rape is forbidden and not practiced. You are a very pure race. My apologies. Now go back to your Hershey.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 05:17

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 4:47 am on May 27, 2003

Quote: from kelvin9 on 4:36 am on May 27, 2003

Quote: from Zombie on 4:26 am on May 27, 2003
Chocolate bars?
You lost all credibilty you might have had in the past with that hilarious example of yours. God bless those Hershey bars eh!

Yes God bless the Hershey bars.

Commie soldiers should at least do the women in occupied countries and wear a condom when they rape them:

"up to two million German women were raped during the last six months of the Second World War"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/berlin_05.shtml

We all know that the BBC is definately above posting fictitious right-wing propoganda...Damn Kelvin...I'M SWITCHING SIDES RIGHT NOW SINCE THE BBC SAID IT!!

Nice. You deny it happened. Ask my childhood neighboor. As a girl in Berlin she dressed like a boy to avoid being raped. Still that did not protet her.

http://www.warandchildren.org/Literature.htm

"victorious soldiers rape and pillage to their hearts' content"
http://www.booksmags.com/books/shop199/pd0...030414/History/ (http://www.booksmags.com/books/shop199/pd0670030414/History/)

"first-hand testimony to gruesome Soviet crimes, ranging from the vilest murders and rapes on down, against helpless non-combatants"
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p43_Grau.html

http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2002/05/...52002104901.asp (http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2002/05/08052002104901.asp)

" The author "was 'shaken to the core' to discover that even their own Russian and Polish women and girls liberated from German concentration camps were also violated."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/war_rape.htm

OK don't believe the UK.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 05:24

Quote: from Zombie on 5:03 am on May 27, 2003
Kelvin? I guess all your fellow countrymen aren't rapers after all. Since you live in a nation under a god, rape is forbidden and not practiced. You are a very pure race. My apologies. Now go back to your Hershey.

I was pretty certain that pillage and rape is not rampant within USGIs ranks. In the same breath I would be wrong to claim that a USGI has never raped in an occupied country. USGI simply do not use rape as a weapon of war. After all that would be a dishonorable way to wage war. Do you agree?

Zombie

27th May 2003, 06:48

It is a dishonorable way to wage war, yet I, neither you, can prove or disprove the fact that these acts are happening, NO MATTER which army or country we are referring to. Do not come and tell me the USGI are trained well and paid well and wouldn't that or wouldn't do this, cos' it's all bullshit, and you know it.
You have to experience first hand the war, and see for yourself what is truly happening, regarding rapes and such, to be able to prove your saying.

Yet I cannot help myself to ask you, do you think of dropping nukes or chemical bombs on civilian populations, as an honorable way to wage war?

And finally, do you think there IS an honorable way to wage war? Isn't war in itself dishonorable?

.A.

lostsoul

27th May 2003, 06:59

Quote: from kelvin9 on 4:36 am on May 27, 2003

Quote: from Zombie on 4:26 am on May 27, 2003
Chocolate bars?
You lost all credibilty you might have had in the past with that hilarious example of yours. God bless those Hershey bars eh!

Yes God bless the Hershey bars.

Commie soldiers should at least do the women in occupied countries and wear a condom when they rape them:

"up to two million German women were raped during the last six months of the Second World War"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/berlin_05.shtml

i don't like to flame the cappies here, but i seriously think your are the stupidest of the bunch. How are you using the actions of individuals to pass judgment on an entire social/economic system??

America has one of the biggest prision populations in the world, that makes you and your entire country rapists and murders. Thats how stupid you sound.

I'm sure if you know the stats of rapes, then i'm assuming you would also know that the soviet's had a policy of shoting any of their own men found looting or doing harm to the people?

Next time please think before posting, mr.o henry.

Also, this is not related to americians military at all. My question had nothing to do with germany or soviets. It was simply about america.

Invader Zim

27th May 2003, 07:08

Quote: from COMRADE RAF on 4:57 am on May 27, 2003
I guess predicting any type of human response or behaviour is above your intellectual capacity.

I rather liked your chimp crack that was clever, but there are better ones, keep them coming though.

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 07:28

My well is deep comrade AK47. Ask good old kelvin here.

Nothin' for the "After 12 years of economic sanctions, I could occupy Iraq with 8 quid and a pellet rifle" eh??

I was quite fond of that one.

Cheers comrade!

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 08:20

Quote: from Zombie on 6:48 am on May 27, 2003
It is a dishonorable way to wage war, yet I, neither you, can prove or disprove the fact that these acts are happening, NO MATTER which army or country we are referring to. Do not come and tell me the USGI are trained well and paid well and wouldn't that or wouldn't do this, cos' it's all bullshit, and you know it.
You have to experience first hand the war, and see for yourself what is truly happening, regarding rapes and such, to be able to prove your saying.

Yet I cannot help myself to ask you, do you think of dropping nukes or chemical bombs on civilian populations, as an honorable way to wage war?

And finally, do you think there IS an honorable way to wage war? Isn't war in itself dishonorable?

.A.

Sorry within the narrow scope of I am talking about the behavior of soldiers on the ground. Even aircrews who dropped the atomic bombs performed thier duty with honor. The dishonor falls upon the politcal leadership who sent them there to drop the bombs.

Regarding pilage and rape. I again fall back to my cholate bar defense. Why have USGIs been associated with saftey and cholate bars around the world. When teenagers with rifles from different counties are look upon with fear.

Yezhov

27th May 2003, 08:22

Kelvin, I am sorry to read your posts. They are pure babble. The USGI don't rape RAMPANTLY in occupied territory, and not honorable? Look to a small occupied Japanese territory called Okinawa. In a survey conducted at the only school there. 70% of females aged from 14-20 had been sexually abused by your 'honorable' GI's. Not only do they sexually abuse them, they also run them over in their cars while under the influence, they also test their weapons in the the hills etc etc.

Not terribly 'honorable' Kelvin.

Nikolai.

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 08:32

Quote: from Yezhov on 8:22 am on May 27, 2003
Kelvin, I am sorry to read your posts. They are pure babble. The USGI don't rape RAMPANTLY in occupied territory, and not honorable? Look to a small occupied Japanese territory called Okinawa. In a survey conducted at the only school there. 70% of females aged from 14-20 had been sexually abused by your 'honorable' GI's. Not only do they sexually abuse them, they also run them over in their cars while under the influence, they also test their weapons in the the hills etc etc.

Not terribly 'honorable' Kelvin.

Nikolai.

Please provide a source? So I know what events you are talking about.
What time period are you talking about. I am aware of recent drunk driving accidents by US Marines stationed there. They are also in jail in Okinawa. I am also aware of a recent rape by a US Marine. He is also in jail in Okinawa. Criminal behavior stationed abroad is a different matter than using pillage and rape as a weapon of war. I am familiar with Okinawa. They cherish there children very much. A criminal convicted of a crime against children would be very lucky to be able to survive to the end of his term.

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 08:40

Nikolai,

I do indeed enjoy your posts. Your facts are accurate and well stated...It is unfortunate you have hat to read kelvin's nonsence on two threads. He has reduced most of these arguments to absolute absurdity.

reductio ad absurdisimmum, ad oculus

I do hope you stay a while, as intelligent comrades are hard to find.

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 8:42 am on May 27, 2003)

notyetacommie

27th May 2003, 12:40

kelvin, what you stated about the Soviets is an opinion rather than hard fact. Have you seen a single document ( and I mean a real document written in cyrillic and signed by a Soviet official- a real Soviet official or the living witness-a real witness, not a nazi daughter trying to get back at the Soviets for the death of her murderous father - and I need to have her e-mail address or something)? The accusations you make here are very strong. In criminal court, you know, one has to prove such facts BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT to bring in a verdict. That Beever guy certainly tries to diminish the Soviet merit in the victory over the nazis, moreover, I got the impression that he was more sympathetic with Nazis than with the Soviets.
Where did he get all the "documents" he was referring to? From the USSR archives? I would think that IF these documents ever existed, which is still to be proved by you, they would be unavailable to a foreign historian. This makes me think the author was making the whole thing up for the benefit of you and other US patriots so that you could think that your country is the greatest ever.

But, playing on your ground... Suppose all of this is true. 1. it beats me how everyone refers to the Soviet army as the Russian army. There were 15 republics in the Soviet Union. There are more than 50 nations living in Russia apart from Russians proper. So, you'd better be specific of what nationality were the guys- Russian, Byelorussian, Ukrainian, Moldavian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Georgian, Azerbaizhanian, Armenian, Kazakh, Turkmen, Uzbek, Kyrgys, .... just to name the nations making up the Soviet Union and leaving aside all those making up Russia.

2. Did the US GIs ever have ALL their family killed by the enemy? Say, by the Nicaraguans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Koreans- shall I go on with the LONG list of the raped nations, not just individuals? Do you know that 20000000 Soviets were killed in this war? What would you feel if you had so many Americans killed by your enemy? Would you be still sending chocolate bars to poor kids? Well, this chocolate stuff is really a good one, especially if you remember that between the fall of Berlin (and the fall of the Hershey bars?) and the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki there was only 4 months. Are you trying to say that the Japanese kids were inferior to the German kids?
3. The story about Soviets raping people released by them from the concentration camps is simply ridiculous. As you are, holding on to it.

NeedForRevolution

27th May 2003, 13:00

i had no time to read all comments so i dont know if it was mentioned...

the USA did NOT win ww2.... it were the soviets...
the USA got defeated in vietnam and when they began to loose troops they chickened out
they did not yet win the war against terror and they never will

Anonymous

27th May 2003, 14:43

Quote: from notyetacommie on 12:40 pm on May 27, 2003
kelvin, what you stated about the Soviets is an opinion rather than hard fact. Have you seen a single document ( and I mean a real document written in cyrillic and signed by a Soviet official- a real Soviet official or the living witness-a real witness, not a nazi daughter trying to get back at the Soviets for the death of her murderous father - and I need to have her e-mail address or something)? The accusations you make here are very strong. In criminal court, you know, one has to prove such facts BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT to bring in a verdict. That Beever guy certainly tries to diminish the Soviet merit in the victory over the nazis, moreover, I got the impression that he was more sympathetic with Nazis than with the Soviets.
Where did he get all the "documents" he was referring to? From the USSR archives? I would think that IF these documents ever existed, which is still to be proved by you, they would be unavailable to a foreign historian. This makes me think the author was making the whole thing up for the benefit of you and other US patriots so that you could think that your country is the greatest ever.

But, playing on your ground... Suppose all of this is true. 1. it beats me how everyone refers to the Soviet army as the Russian army. There were 15 republics in the Soviet Union. There are more than 50 nations living in Russia apart from Russians proper. So, you'd better be specific of what nationality were the guys- Russian, Byelorussian, Ukrainian, Moldavian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Georgian, Azerbaizhanian, Armenian, Kazakh, Turkmen, Uzbek, Kyrgys, .... just to name the nations making up the Soviet Union and leaving aside all those making up Russia.

2. Did the US GIs ever have ALL their family killed by the enemy? Say, by the Nicaraguans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Koreans- shall I go on with the LONG list of the raped nations, not just individuals? Do you know that 20000000 Soviets were killed in this war? What would you feel if you had so many Americans killed by your enemy? Would you be still sending chocolate bars to poor kids? Well, this chocolate stuff is really a good one, especially if you remember that between the fall of Berlin (and the fall of the Hershey bars?) and the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki there was only 4 months. Are you trying to say that the Japanese kids were inferior to the German kids?
3. The story about Soviets raping people released by them from the concentration camps is simply ridiculous. As you are, holding on to it.

So then my next door neighbor was lying about being gang raped?

Does anyone have any documents signed by Hitler authorizing an order to build concentration camps? I guess than it was all a myth too. The survivors testimony don't count since it was not recorded by a Nazi.

There are plenty of survivors from Berlin.

notyetacommie

27th May 2003, 15:05

There are none who survived in many Ukrainian, Russian and Byelorussian cities. You know, the difference between Hitler and Saddam (or any other leader of a screwed country) is that Hitler (and the Germans who supported him, and who should have known about the risk of killing 20mln and getting revenge from the Soviets) attacked the USSR, while NONE of the nations that the US has been fighting with so far attacked the USA. Not even the Japanese, as the US were the first to bomb their submarine, thus declaring war on them, and as the Pearl Harbor wasn't an American state then, it only became the state around 1959.
Are you trying to say that raping is more evil than simply killing civilians?
As far as I know, some Soviet soldiers were subject to court martials for killing the German POWs after their whole families had been raped and murdered, and there are documents that prove this, but I haven't heard of any documents supporting what that Beavor block is saying. Talking about the Communist imperialism living in the country where anglo-saxons RAPED and KILLED Native Americans during the times of coloniazation is, you know, not politically correct. Are you a Native American? No? Get off from this land!!!

Pete

27th May 2003, 16:03

Kelvin, reply to my list please.

The case of Okiwana is documented in Canadian (and probaly Euro) news sources. They where not court martialed/tried, but re stationed to the Motherland.

Vinny Rafarino

27th May 2003, 20:20

So then my next door neighbor was lying about being gang raped?

Does anyone have any documents signed by Hitler authorizing an order to build concentration camps? I guess than it was all a myth too. The survivors testimony don't count since it was not recorded by a Nazi.

There are plenty of survivors from Berlin.

I do believe you have outdone yourself this time Kelvin. Your absolute idiocy will never cease to amaze me.

I myself can walk up to my next door neighbour and claim to have been "gang-raped" by the Red Army(RAF!)
during WWII. Does this make it so? How well do you know this "victim". Does she suffer from any mental disorders? During undergrad, I had the, ahem, luxury of interviewing several patients suffering from dementia and schizophrenia. It would not have been unlikely for any of these patients to claim the were being gang raped by Charlton Heston and his NRA cronies on a nightly basis. (Even Ted Nugent was involved!) This does not mean it actually happend. Grow up laddie.

As far as Nazi Death Camps are concerned, if you require any more proof of these existing then someone should remove you from this forum straight away

Pete

27th May 2003, 20:31

RAF you must remember that the Soviets hated the Germans, and in most cases felt that they where dealing out swift revenge for what happened in their lands for the three years before. Aswell the Germans where starved and routinely excecute (no one surrendered today again, oh well) in battle and POW camps, but the Germans did the very same thing to the Russians. They hated each other, and it shows.

But what kelvin is doing, in reality, is one of two things. A) He is avoiding addressing the dishonours of the army of which this thread is about and claims chocolate as his only defense.

or

B) He is trying to justify his beloved armies actions by saying 'other people do it too it is okay.'

Vinny Rafarino

28th May 2003, 01:06

I understand precisely what Kelvin is doing...Besides of course proving in an international forum the "quality" and political ignorance of American voters. "DUBYA! DUBYA! DUBYA!" I'm not a child Comrade Pete. I understand that there were indeed rapes committed by the Red Army prior to and after the occupation of Germany. But to hold the Communist movement responsible for these crimes is pure fantasy. I do not hold the Wehrmacht accountable for the crimes of the SS, as these soldiers were simply unaware of the atrocities being committed. The argument Kelvin presents is not only nonsense but quite simply, its pedomorphic. I do not have any more time to waste on this boy.

Is it not possible then that this "neighbour" of Kelvin's is simply a figmental image created by him in a vain attempt to sway opinion away from the real fact:

KELVIN IS A TOSSER.

Cheers lads.

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 1:08 am on May 28, 2003)

Pete

28th May 2003, 01:08

I was more stating it to get it out in the open so he cannot start on that speel again.

Vinny Rafarino

28th May 2003, 01:12

Understood Comrade. Cheers.

Urban Rubble

28th May 2003, 06:25

Kelvin, this is how I know you are a complete moron. Pete made a LONG post about all the different attrocities American soldiers commited and you completely ignored it. Go back, read it and respond to it. It's painfully obvious that you didn't reply because you have no facts to back your baseless arguements.

Also, it took you about 10 posts to realize no one said you made the comment about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The first time I read that post I realized he never said you made the statement. People responded over and over explaining it to you, after about the 10th time you got it (I think).

Before responding you should read peoples posts all the way through. You should find a cappie with alot more knowledge because your arguements are stupid and repetitive. Seriously, find someone who knows more about the subject because you are really fucking stupid.

Vinny Rafarino

29th May 2003, 03:27

Bang-up job comrades. Your arguments were clear, profaound and also very well substantiated with factual information. I am proud to be comrades in arms with you...I think we have beaten this thread to death.

Piss off Kelvin, you useless twat!!

(sorry, I just could not help myself.)

IHP

29th May 2003, 03:53

Ah, yes Okinawa, a favourite of mine. I thank comrade Nikolai for brining this up. Just a hint though, provide a source because whoever you're arguing with probably doesn't believe you. I also thank CrazyPete because what he said is true.

First of all apologies all round. I haven't really been very active lately. Its time for that to change though.

Heres a source of Okinawa. A book I read a while ago called: BLOWBACK: The Costs and consequences of American Empire by Chalmers Johnson. Chapter 2 "Asia's last colony: Okinawa" pg's 35-66.

In regards to the most recent rape. It was THREE men, not one as you stated Kelvin, their names were Marcus Gill, Rodrico Harp and Kendrick Ledet. Gill was known as the 'tank' over 6 feet tall and weighed 270 pounds. They embarked on the trip 'just for fun'. The girl was twelve.

In regards to the survey. Thats absolutely true. Page 46.

One, stress, one of the recent drink-driving accidents ended in the death of a woman with her two children. All dead. Lance Corporal Lori Padilla was shipped home and was sentenced to two years imprisonment.

"They cherish there children very much. A criminal convicted of a crime against children would be very lucky to be able to survive to the end of his term"

Well there goes that theory when it comes to the US military.

I could continue...but I won't. You are wrong Kelvin. Don't defend what your army does.

--IHP

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 06:57

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 3:53 am on May 29, 2003
Ah, yes Okinawa, a favourite of mine. I thank comrade Nikolai for brining this up. Just a hint though, provide a source because whoever you're arguing with probably doesn't believe you. I also thank CrazyPete because what he said is true.

First of all apologies all round. I haven't really been very active lately. Its time for that to change though.

Heres a source of Okinawa. A book I read a while ago called: BLOWBACK: The Costs and consequences of American Empire by Chalmers Johnson. Chapter 2 "Asia's last colony: Okinawa" pg's 35-66.

In regards to the most recent rape. It was THREE men, not one as you stated Kelvin, their names were Marcus Gill, Rodrico Harp and Kendrick Ledet. Gill was known as the 'tank' over 6 feet tall and weighed 270 pounds. They embarked on the trip 'just for fun'. The girl was twelve.

In regards to the survey. Thats absolutely true. Page 46.

One, stress, one of the recent drink-driving accidents ended in the death of a woman with her two children. All dead. Lance Corporal Lori Padilla was shipped home and was sentenced to two years imprisonment.

"They cherish there children very much. A criminal convicted of a crime against children would be very lucky to be able to survive to the end of his term"

Well there goes that theory when it comes to the US military.

I could continue...but I won't. You are wrong Kelvin. Don't defend what your army does.

--IHP

That's great. I can't read that can I? Can you provide a link?

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 06:59

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 3:53 am on May 29, 2003
.

In regards to the most recent rape. It was THREE men, not one as you stated Kelvin, their names were Marcus Gill, Rodrico Harp and Kendrick Ledet. Gill was known as the 'tank' over 6 feet tall and weighed 270 pounds. They embarked on the trip 'just for fun'. The girl was twelve.

That was a horrible crime. Not a war atrocity.

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 07:05

Quote: from Guardia Bolivariano on 6:00 am on May 26, 2003

American military history might be full of victories but little honor

We are talking about the honorable behavior of USGIs at war.

And we are talking about rape as a weapon of war.

"RAF you must remember that the Soviets hated the Germans, and in most cases felt that they where dealing out swift revenge for what happened in their lands for the three years before. Aswell the Germans where starved and routinely excecute (no one surrendered today again, oh well) in battle and POW camps, but the Germans did the very same thing to the Russians. They hated each other, and it shows. "

Thank you Crazy Pete.

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 07:07

Quote:

Piss off Kelvin, you useless twat!!

(sorry, I just could not help myself.)

Last resort of someone back up against the wall? Is always name calling.

RedComrade

29th May 2003, 07:27

My Grandpa got shot at by Japanese imperialists. My other Grandpa was shot fighting in the Korean war when he was drafted. I have nothing but respect for both men and I dont give a damn if this is marxist or not. My grandparents laid there lives on the line because they perceived it as being in the best interest of all men and women and I will never disrespect them for it even if I disagree with the war.

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 07:33

Quote: from Yezhov on 8:22 am on May 27, 2003
Kelvin, I am sorry to read your posts. They are pure babble. The USGI don't rape RAMPANTLY in occupied territory, and not honorable? Look to a small occupied Japanese territory called Okinawa. In a survey conducted at the only school there. 70% of females aged from 14-20 had been sexually abused by your 'honorable' GI's. Not only do they sexually abuse them, they also run them over in their cars while under the influence, they also test their weapons in the the hills etc etc.

Not terribly 'honorable' Kelvin.

Nikolai.

"In regards to the most recent rape. It was THREE men, not one as you stated Kelvin, their names were Marcus Gill, Rodrico Harp and Kendrick Ledet. Gill was known as the 'tank' over 6 feet tall and weighed 270 pounds. They embarked on the trip 'just for fun'. The girl was twelve. "

Is this how 70% girls were raped?

1) We not at war with Japan.
2) The above rape was a crime not a weapon of war?
3) Japan is the government of Okaniwa, it is not occupied.
4) If 70% of women are raped in Okaniwa by USGIs, then the Japnese government is keep a good secret.

http://www.ipss.go.jp/English/S_D_I/Indip.html#t_1

Should I do the 70% math on the population figures?

How many reporters are there that would love to break that story of thousands of Japanese girls raped by USGIs?

Let's see the link so I can understand it beyond the scope of what you have posted. I am making lots of guesses from your slim material.

(Edited by kelvin9 at 7:34 am on May 29, 2003)

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 07:44

Quote: from RedComrade on 7:27 am on May 29, 2003
My Grandpa got shot at by Japanese imperialists. My other Grandpa was shot fighting in the Korean war when he was drafted. I have nothing but respect for both men and I dont give a damn if this is marxist or not. My grandparents laid there lives on the line because they perceived it as being in the best interest of all men and women and I will never disrespect them for it even if I disagree with the war.

Both brave men and the conducted themselves honorably. The dishonor goes to the men who got them there. A simple test: If you do something terrible on the battlefield, did you enjoy doing it?

If did not enjoy it then your A-O-K?

If you enjoy it your a dishonorable and sick bastard.

If a man gets an erection, he is enjoying it. Thanks to Crazy Pete, we already established the rapes by the Red Army happened.

IHP

29th May 2003, 11:26

Your skills of perception are somewhat lacking here. That facts there are supported by me. And no I can't find you a link on the internet. There other ways to look up information other than the internet.

The situation I gave you of the rape was the one that YOU referred to. I was restating it correctly.

"We not at war with Japan.
2) The above rape was a crime not a weapon of war?
3) Japan is the government of Okaniwa, it is not occupied.
4) If 70% of women are raped in Okaniwa by USGIs, then the Japnese government is keep a good secret."

1)You are occupying a territory. The majority of the area is taken up by military installations. The US is responsible for the well-being of the citizens there.

2) See above

3)Yes it is. Do you want to see the maths? How much land is military installations etc?

4) No, read what has been said by comrade Nikolai, and I confirmed. 70% between 14 and 20 have been sexually abused, forced into things they do not want to do of a sexual nature.

As I said above for the 70%, Learn to read, your link is irrelevent.

"How many reporters are there that would love to break that story of thousands of Japanese girls raped by USGIs"

Well, you misread something and it's like a rolling thunder, no? And the majority of these cases aren't reported outside of military jurisdiction.

"That was a horrible crime. Not a war atrocity"

Raped on one side of the street or raped on the other side of the street. The military control the area, so that makes it ok? You're one cold hearted bastard.

What else you got?

--IHP

nz revolution

29th May 2003, 11:33

American soldiers are as honourable as communist (soviet & chinese) soldiers.

Remember My Lai in Vietnam you idiot? As well as numerous massacres.

Then there is always Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

notyetacommie

29th May 2003, 12:08

kelvin, you know, it is very hard resisting the desire to turn to name calling reading your posts. I don't know if the US system of educatoin is to blame or is it just some kind of genetic deviations...
Do you really think that the Soviet Army used rape as their major weapon?
Listen, Kelvin, imagine the following:my army occupies your beloved USA ( I know it's hard to imagine that as USA is a bigger aggressor than the Nazi Germany, all other countries are not nearly as aggressive as that)
. My army murders 1/20 of your entire population, rapes many of your women, takes millions as slaves to work at the death camps, ruines thousands of your cities and villages, kills every single relative of yours, most of your friends, you've seen all the bodies of murdered children and women while you were going by in counterattack, --------what would you feel towards my nation? would you feel like throwing Hershey bars? What's more important, would you feel like raping your compatriots just released from a death camp?
Back to your chocolate argument. Do you know that the Americans were also very indulgent to the Nazi war criminals? DO YOU FUCKING KNOW THAT THEY EMPLOYED THE NAZI SPY NETWORK IN EASTERN EUROPE VIRTUALLY INTACT, and the head of the Nazi intelligence services was very closely related to the first head of the CIA Allen? In fact, it was Allen who gave him the job.
Speaking about the undocumented rape in the war time while your own soldiers commit the more documented rape NOW, while in peace with Japan is immoral.

I really wish someone raped you in the peace time some day, so that you could reconsider your stand on the issue.

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 14:16

Quote:
"That was a horrible crime. Not a war atrocity"

Raped on one side of the street or raped on the other side of the street. The military control the area, so that makes it ok? You're one cold hearted bastard.

What else you got?

--IHP

Rape is horrible? So that means I said it was OK. Your trying to put a quote in my mouth that I never said.

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 14:18

Quote:
4) No, read what has been said by comrade Nikolai, and I confirmed. 70% between 14 and 20 have been sexually abused, forced into things they do not want to do of a sexual nature.
--IHP

You mean take your word for it? If I do then you don't you take my word for it. Please provide the link I'll and I'll comment on it.

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 16:00

Quote: from CrazyPete on 4:03 pm on May 27, 2003
Kelvin, reply to my list please.

The case of Okiwana is documented in Canadian (and probaly Euro) news sources. They where not court martialed/tried, but re stationed to the Motherland.

I can not comment on it until you yourself get the story right. (Probably Euro?)

Please provide link.

Anonymous

29th May 2003, 16:06

Quote
Is it not possible then that this "neighbour" of Kelvin's is simply a figmental image created by him in a vain attempt to sway opinion away from the real fact:

KELVIN IS A TOSSER.

Cheers lads.

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 1:08 am on May 28, 2003)

You'll be right if you can provide us with a document from a doctor that shows me to be mental.

The neighbor was indeed raped. Should I not take her word for it? I remember as a kind woman who was had a common bond with my parents, both of which were orphans in WW2. You don't have to take my word for it. I have tried to back up all my claims with links for you to review. You don't have to take my word for it. Now how about you?

Pete

29th May 2003, 16:27

Kelvin, Okinwana was perhaps one of my arguements. Reply to the rest. I said probaly Euro because they are known to be more objective than American sources, especially when dealing with American war crimes.

I am sure the people of Iraq are thanking your soldiers for the honourable way that they dropped the cluster bombs.

Urban Rubble

30th May 2003, 02:00

I see what Kelvin is doing, he's skipping peoples posts with questions he can't answer.

Go back to page 10, read my post, THEN go back and read Pete's list of U.S war crimes, then respond. Anyway, I'm sure you won't reply to this because you won't be able to say SHIT about Pete's list.

IHP

30th May 2003, 02:48

Please, oh please reply to mine properly after you have answered Pete and Urban Rubble.

I'll answer to the few things you DID respond to.

Rape is horrible? So that means I said it was OK. Your trying to put a quote in my mouth that I never said."

No, I'm not. You were trying to excuse it simply as a crime. The US occupies the area. It is a military crime committed by your USGI's.

"You mean take your word for it? If I do then you don't you take my word for it. Please provide the link I'll and I'll comment on it."

I have already provided a source, but I cannot find a link. I have already suggested that there are other ways to find information. Use your head.

You have responded to about two things that are possibly borderine. The fact is, you cannot refute the truth. What about the rest of my post, hmm?

Pretty poor response from a right-winger, I think.

Also, do you think you could actually put your arguments into one post instead of two, three, four? Thanks.

--IHP

notyetacommie

30th May 2003, 03:28

Kelvin, could you send me an e-mail address of your neighbour?

ComradeRiley

30th May 2003, 03:42

The USA got there ass kicked in Somalia and in vietnam and in North Korea (because of the Chinese) and Cuba (bay of pigs)

(Edited by ComradeRiley at 3:49 am on May 30, 2003)

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 01:30

Quote: from
I really wish someone raped you in the peace time some day, so that you could reconsider your stand on the issue.

Sorry if I was unclear on the issue. I will clarify it now. Rape is horrible as a standard operating procedure for soldiers at war. Rape is horible as a civil crime.

Pete

31st May 2003, 01:36

Kelvin, but during military occupatoin, is that not similar to being at war? Or are the Iraqi's shot murdered instead of killed during wartime?

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 01:44

Quote: from nz revolution on 11:33 am on May 29, 2003
American soldiers are as honourable as communist (soviet & chinese) soldiers.

Remember My Lai in Vietnam you idiot? As well as numerous massacres.

Then there is always Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

My Lai did occur. I could level the same requirement on you from your fellow comrades and ask for proof. I will not. There was a cover up and Medina and Calley were court marshalled. It is very clear what behavior the US Amry expects from it soldiers. Ever hear of a Red Army soldier getting court marshalled for the atroticies in Berlin? Yes it did happen.

There is no similiar expectation of behavior in communist armies.

The bombs. Again the dishonor falls upon the men who brought about the chain of events leading to the bombs, not the behavior or the men carrying out the mission.

Just a little off thread. Again the question is the behavior of soldiers on a battle field.

Pete

31st May 2003, 01:47

The bombs. Again the dishonor falls upon the men who brought about the chain of events leading to the bombs, not the behavior or the men carrying out the mission.

Ever hear of the Nuremburg Trails? That arguement ahs no validity.

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 01:49

Quote: from CrazyPete on 1:36 am on May 31, 2003
Kelvin, but during military occupatoin, is that not similar to being at war? Or are the Iraqi's shot murdered instead of killed during wartime?

When the war is over the rape is a civil crime. I am still waiting to read a link to the Washington Post, Pravada, or Japanese newspaper reporting mass rapes on Okiniawa.

Again I would like to know how those reports came about and from whom?

(Edited by kelvin9 at 1:51 am on May 31, 2003)

Pete

31st May 2003, 01:51

BTW what is Pravada. GOod luck finding it in Wasthington post, and Japanese newspapers are in japanese...

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 01:52

Quote: from CrazyPete on 1:51 am on May 31, 2003
BTW what is Pravada. GOod luck finding it in Wasthington post, and Japanese newspapers are in japanese...

A Russian newpaper.

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 01:54

Too bad I can not capture video. You would love to see the reports from Bremya about Stalin.

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 02:02

Quote: from CrazyPete on 1:47 am on May 31, 2003
The bombs. Again the dishonor falls upon the men who brought about the chain of events leading to the bombs, not the behavior or the men carrying out the mission.

Ever hear of the Nuremburg Trails? That arguement ahs no validity.

Sure.

The nuclear bomb: Quote from the Enola Gay, " My God, what have we done?"

Red Army Rapes: Ever hear of man not enjoy ejaculation?

Pete

31st May 2003, 02:16

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...=44&ItemID=2751 (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=44&ItemID=2751) the intro tells of one rape.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...=41&ItemID=2397 (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=41&ItemID=2397) i wonder why these men need to know of war crimes

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east...2/okinawa.rape/ (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/07/02/okinawa.rape/)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/28/...ain299018.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/28/world/main299018.shtml)

http://www.fredoneverything.net/yyOkinawa.shtml 2nd paragraph

http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-01-00.html

But, nothing happened. So the cycle has restarted

http://www.walrus.com/~dawei/articles/apc-e.html first paragraph

http://dailybeacon.utk.edu/issues/v73/n13/...kinawa.13v.html (http://dailybeacon.utk.edu/issues/v73/n13/okinawa.13v.html)

http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/femisa/jan96/0016.html

http://www.smn.co.jp/e/key/0023k01e.html

http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/ic...is/0709fear.htm (http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/icc/crisis/0709fear.htm)

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j071101.htm

http://www.jcp.or.jp/tokusyu/okinawa/Okinawa.pdf

Is that enough for you? It took 6 years for the honourable USGI"s to be arrested and 7 for them to be charged. Yes I see the honour there . Of course this incident is not isolated (feel free to browse these large varieties of sources)

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 02:48

Again I do not deny it. The GIs were criminals. It is horible behavior.

Were the GIs issued weapons and ammo when the crimes took place?

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 02:50

How about those Nike plants on the military bases in Indonesia?

Anonymous

31st May 2003, 02:53

Quote: from notyetacommie on 3:28 am on May 30, 2003
Kelvin, could you send me an e-mail address of your neighbour?

I have moved away from my childhood home. Not to worry, there were more survivors. You can read about Irene:

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/cultura...rts+News.0.html (http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/cultural/news/display.var.654749.Arts+News.0.html)

Pete

31st May 2003, 02:59

Hey kelvin teachers are busy people. As I said it may not be indonesia. But it happens. Of course the US media would not tell you. Search "sweat show us army base" if you can't wait.

Urban Rubble

31st May 2003, 05:15

Kelvin, you seem to be missing the point.

I'm sure in just about every war in the history of mankind there has been various rapes, murders, whatever, regardless of political ideology. You are trying to say that communist armies use rape and attrocities as a weapon in war, that's not true.

If you want to talk about GI's getting away scot free with rape and murder, then let's talk about Vietnam. Have you ever heard of Vietnam ?

Not to mention we were there for no fucking reason at all.

IHP

31st May 2003, 07:32

Still waiting for a response from you Kelvin.

--IHP

kelvin90701

1st June 2003, 18:18

Quote: from Urban Rubble on 5:15 am on May 31, 2003
Kelvin, you seem to be missing the point.

I'm sure in just about every war in the history of mankind there has been various rapes, murders, whatever, regardless of political ideology. You are trying to say that communist armies use rape and attrocities as a weapon in war, that's not true.

If you want to talk about GI's getting away scot free with rape and murder, then let's talk about Vietnam. Have you ever heard of Vietnam ?

Not to mention we were there for no fucking reason at all.

Sorry I believe I did reply to My Lai? It is very clear what the policy regarding rape and looting is in the US Army. Capt. Medina did not get off scott free, he was court marshalled.

Yes there was not reason for it. What was the Red Army's policy in Berlin during WW2, it was certainly not to stop the rapes.

kelvin90701

1st June 2003, 18:21

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 7:32 am on May 31, 2003
Still waiting for a response from you Kelvin.

--IHP

Sorry for the slow response. I get back when I can, but a 5-4 brown haired green eyed 20-something dance instructor is far more interesting than politics.

kelvin90701

1st June 2003, 18:24

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 2:48 am on May 30, 2003

I have already provided a source, but I cannot find a link. I have already suggested that there are other ways to find information. Use your head.

You have responded to about two things that are possibly borderine. The fact is, you cannot refute the truth. What about the rest of my post, hmm?

--IHP

Oh, sorry can not comment on your evidence. After all I can't review it can I. Getting research? It is not my job to prove your point. Bring your research here so we can all look at it.

Pete

1st June 2003, 18:43

Drop the CCCP that has nothing to do with why America is feared and hated not respected.

BTW where you banned again?

kelvin90701

1st June 2003, 19:28

Quote: from CrazyPete on 6:43 pm on June 1, 2003
Drop the CCCP that has nothing to do with why America is feared and hated not respected.

OK. Then it is not DoD policy to encourage rape and looting. It is DoD policy to stop rape and looting of GIs during armed conflict. America? That would include the behavior of all American's not just GIs. Then my comment is that Americans are just as human as everyone else in the wolrd. Citizens of the USA commit crimes during peace just like everyone else while they are abroad and at home. The US Army strives to conduct itself with with greater professionalism and higher standard of conduct that other standing armies of the world. (Again I point to the Hershey bar defense). Today it would be the MRE defense. I can easily make the blanket statement that other standing armies to not make the attempt to feed thier enemies.

Pete

1st June 2003, 19:34

Hershey bar is bullshit. It is like "sorry for killing your mom and dad, here eat this candy that will give you the shits in a few days and smile."

The DoD should be the Department of War, Conquest, and Neo-Imperialism. Department of Defense so Orwellian.

Their standards may be high, but standards are guidelines to follow that mean nothing. I mean you do use clusterbombs on civilians. There is no excuse. That demands a few ICC charges not respect or honour. But of course the Yanks are afraid of the ICC and place them selves above it.

kelvin90701

1st June 2003, 20:14

Quote: from CrazyPete on 7:34 pm on June 1, 2003
I mean you do use clusterbombs on civilians. There is no excuse.

There is no excuse for cluster bombs on civilians. Take it up with the heads of state who sent the GI there, not the GIs. Civilian colatteral casualities have a legal precedence in WW2 and WW1. There is no moral justification for civilian casualities. GIs have a duty to disobey illegal orders not immoral ones.

Regarding your position on Okiniawa. I will step way out line and way off thread here:

No the USA is not going to leave Okiniawa. By the Japanese Consititution, they are restricted from every building a large standing army forever. By default the USA has to assume responsibility for the defense of Japan forever. The Japanise main land needs to be defended and thier government has ineffect sold the people and realestate to the DoD in exchange for military defense.

WW2 has taught Japan's neighbors that Japan should never have a large standing army forever. Japan still needs to be defended, by who? The South Koreans? The Philipinees? The Chinese? The Austrailians?

Communist efforts to eject the US bases will be invane unless the Japanese mainland agrees that it will be in its best interest not to have a USA presense regardless of what the people of Okiniawa want.

Pete

1st June 2003, 20:21

So they defend the little islands south of the heart land...

This thread is about the AMerican army, and the legal precedence is that the soldiers who carry out the orders are just as responsible for their actions. That is out of WWII.

IHP

2nd June 2003, 01:18

Fair enough about the lady. :)

"Oh, sorry can not comment on your evidence. After all I can't review it can I. Getting research? It is not my job to prove your point. Bring your research here so we can all look at it. "

Firtly, based on that theory I would assume that the only copy of the book exists in Melbourne, Australia. Curious...

But further than that there are other points that you not argued. The only point that is 'in doubt' if you will, is the % of sexual abuse in Okinawa. You haven't addressed anything else yet Kelvy-baby.

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 1:20 am on June 2, 2003)

notyetacommie

2nd June 2003, 05:55

Quote: from kelvin9 on 1:44 am on May 31, 2003

Quote: from nz revolution on 11:33 am on May 29, 2003
American soldiers are as honourable as communist (soviet & chinese) soldiers.

Remember My Lai in Vietnam you idiot? As well as numerous massacres.

Then there is always Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

My Lai did occur. I could level the same requirement on you from your fellow comrades and ask for proof. I will not. There was a cover up and Medina and Calley were court marshalled. It is very clear what behavior the US Amry expects from it soldiers. Ever hear of a Red Army soldier getting court marshalled for the atroticies in Berlin? Yes it did happen.

There is no similiar expectation of behavior in communist armies.

The bombs. Again the dishonor falls upon the men who brought about the chain of events leading to the bombs, not the behavior or the men carrying out the mission.

Just a little off thread. Again the question is the behavior of soldiers on a battle field.

You keep amazing me with your ignorance and desire to throw dirt on the Soviet army. Check out this link:http://www.mn.ru/issue.php?2002-24-38. It is a counter arguement of the Russian Ambassador to the G.B. Grigory Karasin. He argues that the facts described by Beavor are true.
"There is no similiar expectation of behavior in communist armies."
As for the expectation of behavior, this interview holds the fact that 4148 looters or other military criminals engaged in violent actions were court-martialled by the Soviets in 1945. Some of them were sentenced to death. The US army sentenced to death 69 persons over the same periode of time.
I am sorry this is all in Russian, but you must know the language of the peope you accuse of being so violent if you want to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt, just to read their documents as well, right, kelvin?
As a matter of fact, my uncle served in Eastern Germany, and he told us that the Soviet soldiers were treated with due respect, which would not be the case had they been such murderers and rapers as described by Mr Beavor.

IHP

2nd June 2003, 06:04

The link from notyetacommie's post.

try now (http://www.mn.ru/issue.php?2002-24-38)

It's in Russian though.

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 6:05 am on June 2, 2003)

notyetacommie

2nd June 2003, 11:47

Thanks IHP:)
I will probably translate it later, too bad I have no time to do it now...

Vinny Rafarino

4th June 2003, 05:14

Quote: from kelvin90701 on 6:21 pm on June 1, 2003

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 7:32 am on May 31, 2003
Still waiting for a response from you Kelvin.

--IHP

Sorry for the slow response. I get back when I can, but a 5-4 brown haired green eyed 20-something dance instructor is far more interesting than politics.

Do you want a little prize or something toughguy?

IHP

5th June 2003, 05:21

I'll give Kelvin a prize if he would just respond for crying out loud. Well...?

--IHP

Loknar

5th June 2003, 05:29

From the orgional topic of this post it implied that America would just crumble to a real fight. Well I got news for you, we didnt become powerful by playing nice and our nationalistic pride would ensure we never are invaded. Hell after Pearl Harbor happened people in Cali were armed and patroling the streets expecting Japenese to land. We are not the type who pick fights with the small guy, we are the type that looks out for our intereasts just as every other nation on this planet does. Oh, in some places we carry gun concealed.......

Loknar

5th June 2003, 05:34

notyetacommie

Dont evemn say that the Red Army was a nice bunch of people. 5,000 in Berlin were court marshalled? Well that's small compared to the hundreds of thousands of rapes. Those court marshalled must have killed someone.

In any event every war will have its share of war crimes.

Will it surprise everone to know that more people died under European imperialism than American imperialism?

IHP

5th June 2003, 05:36

"Well I got news for you, we didnt become powerful by playing nice"

I'm sorry. Loknar is it? Right. You do realize what side your taking here right? This is exactly the essence of this topic. America doesn't play nice. Exactly.

We are not the type who pick fights with the small guy

You are either the funniest person on this board, or the stupidest. Which is it? America spends $400 billion dollars on defense. What did Afghanistan have? Small pockets of Guerilla fighters. What about Iraq's depleted poorly armed military? To name the two must recent conflicts.

"that looks out for our intereasts just as every other nation on this planet does"

I beg of you. Are you funny or stupid? Interests..? Other peoples? Hmmm...curious.

--IHP

IHP

5th June 2003, 05:38

"Dont evemn say that the Red Army was a nice bunch of people. 5,000 in Berlin were court marshalled? Well that's small compared to the hundreds of thousands of rapes. Those court marshalled must have killed someone.

In any event every war will have its share of war crimes.

Will it surprise everone to know that more people died under European imperialism than American imperialism? "

Please provide some stats, and some non biased sources. Thank you.

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 5:39 am on June 5, 2003)

Loknar

5th June 2003, 05:42

I'm sorry. Loknar is it? Right. You do realize what side your taking here right? This is exactly the essence of this topic. America doesn't play nice. Exactly.

I agree here, but why are we sop bad for not taking shit?

You are either the funniest person on this board, or the stupidest. Which is it? America spends $400 billion dollars on defense. What did Afghanistan have? Small pockets of Guerilla fighters. What about Iraq's depleted poorly armed military? To name the two must recent conflicts.

The big guy naturally spends more on defense, I dont see your point. Why was our invasionof Afghanistan wrong? We hit them in their nest and ever since they've been running, we did the same to the Barbary pirates.

I beg of you. Are you funny or stupid? Interests..? Other peoples? Hmmm...curious.

Why are you always so insulting toward me?
And tell me,. what has America done that is so orgional?

IHP

5th June 2003, 05:50

"I agree here, but why are we sop bad for not taking shit?"

Situation: A bully continually beats other smaller children up. What's so bad about that? He's serving his self interest, and not 'taking shit'. Not an entirely fair scenario.

"The big guy naturally spends more on defense, I dont see your point. Why was our invasionof Afghanistan wrong? We hit them in their nest and ever since they've been running, we did the same to the Barbary pirates."

Hang on, you are changing your argument. You said that you are not the 'prick that picks on the small guy'. So now you are the big guy? Try a bit of direction here Loknar.

Further than that. The justification for invading Afghanistan is a different argument altogether. Your argument wasn't about that. I was showing that Afghanistan is an example of the small guy, that according to you, America don't 'pick on.'

"Why are you always so insulting toward me?
And tell me,. what has America done that is so orgional?"

I wasn't insulting, I was serious. Let me get this straight. Other countries have killed people and invaded other lands, so that's ok. Is that what you mean by original?

--IHP

Loknar

5th June 2003, 06:03

[Situation: A bully continually beats other smaller children up. What's so bad about that? He's serving his self interest, and not 'taking shit'. Not an entirely fair scenario.

That does happen I agree, but considering what past empires have done we are nothing new.

Hang on, you are changing your argument. You said that you are not the 'prick that picks on the small guy'. So now you are the big guy? Try a bit of direction here Loknar.

We're the big guy, but we dont go around just looking for a fight with the smaller guys.

About afghanistan: You seemed to indicate that it was wrong of us to take the necessary actions we took. Tell me, why is it bad that we spend $400 billion on defense?

I wasn't insulting, I was serious. Let me get this straight. Other countries have killed people and invaded other lands, so that's ok. Is that what you mean by original?

Not exactly, me attitude is : Dont ***** about our actions when you do/did the exact same thing.

You were serious? How about this: Do you consider your self to be rude? I've not been the niceist person but I've tried. If you think I'm stupid then point it out and ask m,e to adress my comments.

(Edited by Loknar at 6:07 am on June 5, 2003)

IHP

5th June 2003, 06:15

"That does happen I agree, but considering what past empires have done we are nothing new. "

Ok, you don't seem to be understanding. I point a gun at someone, shoot them in the face constantly until their face is unrecognizable. But that's ok, because other people have done worse. Poor stance Loknar, poor stance.

"We're the big guy, but we dont go around just looking for a fight with the smaller guys."

Oh really? I think you're a little misguided. When was the last time you went to war with China? You fight little guys because you know you can win easily. Classic schoolyard bully.

"About afghanistan: You seemed to indicate that it was wrong of us to take the necessary actions we took. Tell me, why is it bad that we spend $400 billion on defense?"

Why were your actions necessary? Has al-quaeda been totally disbanded? No. Have you caught Osama bin Laden? No. Was anything achieved? Yes. Pipeline.

You think that $400 Billion dollars is perfectly ok to spend on military? The education sector is struggling. What about your health and welfare system? No, that amount of money is a paranoid overkill.

"Not exactly, me attitude is : Dont ***** about our actions when you did the exact same thing."

Again, poor stance. The 'someone else did it too, so that makes it ok' stance. I don't think so Loknar. Nice try, but no.

"You were serious? How about this: Do you consider your self to be rude? I've not been the niceist person but I've tried. If you think I'm stupid then point it out and ask m,e to adress my comments. "

You were offended by me asking if you were 'stupid'? Well, I apologize. It's not my fault you try and justify murder and imperialism. Don't worry Loknar. I can be much, much meaner.

--IHP

Loknar

5th June 2003, 06:32

Oh really? I think you're a little misguided. When was the last time you went to war with China? You fight little guys because you know you can win easily. Classic schoolyard bully.

We fought CHina during the Korean war. And I may add we pushed the COmmies back to the 38th Parellel and SK is still not a Commie regime.

Why were your actions necessary? Has al-quaeda been totally disbanded? No. Have you caught Osama bin Laden? No. Was anything achieved? Yes. Pipeline.

We just had an attack on our country, we needed to get rid of a problem. Whaty would you have us do? Sit in the corner and cry about it?

You think that $400 Billion dollars is perfectly ok to spend on military?

I think we should spend more...

The education sector is struggling.

It's been proven that an increase of money does hardly anything. The parents and teachers are the key.

What about your health and welfare system? No, that amount of money is a paranoid overkill.

We have health for people who cant affore insurance and elderly and it should remain that way. Nationalized health care is a nighmare I dont even want to contemplate. Welfare is ok, we actually force people to get a job. Social programs would suck up so much of our money it simply isnt worth it. When I go to a hospital I am treated with in a few hours.

Again, poor stance. The 'someone else did it too, so that makes it ok' stance. I don't think so Loknar. Nice try, but no.

No it doesnt make t ok but dont call us Nuremburg war crminals and Dont act so innocent.
[b]
You were offended by me asking if you were 'stupid'? Well, I apologize. It's not my fault you try and justify murder and imperialism. Don't worry Loknar. I can be much, much meaner.

--IHP
[/quote]

I am not offended by your comment I am bugged about your attitude. It is obnoxious, I lived for 15 years with my couisn why was the exact same way.

Loknar

5th June 2003, 06:37

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 5:38 am on June 5, 2003
"Dont evemn say that the Red Army was a nice bunch of people. 5,000 in Berlin were court marshalled? Well that's small compared to the hundreds of thousands of rapes. Those court marshalled must have killed someone.

In any event every war will have its share of war crimes.

Will it surprise everone to know that more people died under European imperialism than American imperialism? "

Please provide some stats, and some non biased sources. Thank you.

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 5:39 am on June 5, 2003)

Let me look around. Aside from Military History magazine and the History Channel I need a webpage.

But in the mean time: Is it possible for a Commie army to act bad?

IHP

5th June 2003, 06:54

"We fought CHina during the Korean war. And I may add we pushed the COmmies back to the 38th Parellel and SK is still not a Commie regime."

You cite Proxy wars as your big accomplishment. And we're talking about now.

"We just had an attack on our country, we needed to get rid of a problem. Whaty would you have us do? Sit in the corner and cry about it? "

Please provide all relevent sources, and hard evidence that the civillians in Afghanistan caused your 'attack.' Sit in the corner and cry? No. Blow to high heaven any one else in the world an use this attack as justification? Absolutely not.

"I think we should spend more... "

Well, you sir are extremely unworldy, and paranoid. People in other parts of the world live on less than $2 a day, and you want more money spent on military? You are a joke.

"It's been proven that an increase of money does hardly anything. The parents and teachers are the key"

Once again, I have asked you several times: are you serious? That's why schools have to bow down to corporations for money? The poor teachers put up with disgusting conditions in substandard buildings. Don't you ever blame teachers for your the terrible state of your education system. Also, please show me the statistics that prove what you claim, to be an absolute truth.

"We have health for people who cant affore insurance and elderly and it should remain that way. Nationalized health care is a nighmare I dont even want to contemplate. Welfare is ok, we actually force people to get a job. Social programs would suck up so much of our money it simply isnt worth it. When I go to a hospital I am treated with in a few hours."

Oh, so you think the homeless want to be homeless? I don't think so.

I can't be bothered to dredge up statistics and criticism. You believe what you want

'No it doesnt make t ok but dont call us Nuremburg war crminals and Dont act so innocent'

First, so it isn't ok to do what you do? You're wrapping yourself up in circles here Loknar. Second, where did I call you Nuremburg war criminals? I didn't. Third. This isn't about me. How am I acting so innocent? What did I do?

"I am not offended by your comment I am bugged about your attitude. It is obnoxious, I lived for 15 years with my couisn why was the exact same way."

My attitude is obnoxious? Please explain to me why. I don't really care what happened with your cousin, but he sounds like a pretty rational bloke.

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 6:56 am on June 5, 2003)

IHP

5th June 2003, 06:59

"Let me look around. Aside from Military History magazine and the History Channel I need a webpage. "

OK, I just saw George W. do the splits naked while smoking a cigar with his cowboy hat on. I swear it! I saw it in a magazine. I just can't prove it.

"But in the mean time: Is it possible for a Commie army to act bad?"

This is not what the topics about. But in answer, which Commie army are you talking about? I, myself, have never seen a 'commie army' anywhere in the world. Ever.

--IHP

Loknar

5th June 2003, 07:24

Please provide all relevent sources, and hard evidence that the civillians in Afghanistan caused your 'attack.' Sit in the corner and cry? No. Blow to high heaven any one else in the world an use this attack as justification? Absolutely not.

So we should save lives if someone may acidently die?

Well, you sir are extremely unworldy, and paranoid. People in other parts of the world live on less than $2 a day, and you want more money spent on military? You are a joke.

I was only kidding actually. I think the current budget is fine.

Once again, I have asked you several times: are you serious? That's why schools have to bow down to corporations for money? The poor teachers put up with disgusting conditions in substandard buildings. Don't you ever blame teachers for your the terrible state of your education system. Also, please show me the statistics that prove what you claim, to be an absolute truth.

Ok, show me how the american educational system is going down the drain,. Because where I live math scores just went up. My sources , damn, it was a while ago i read it. But the source may have been conservative so I dont think you would believe it. If you would like I think I cann dig it up

I'm not blameing the teachers, I blame the parents. The teachers need to have dictatorial power in the class room. Also not every school is a slum, in fact most arent. I live in a Urba area.

Oh, so you think the homeless want to be homeless? I don't think so.

This is why I am for unemployment but if they refuse to work then they dont deserve to take up space.

I can't be bothered to dredge up statistics and criticism. You believe what you want

And you believe what you want.

First, so it isn't ok to do what you do? You're wrapping yourself up in circles here Loknar. Second, where did I call you Nuremburg war criminals? I didn't. Third. This isn't about me. How am I acting so innocent? What did I do?

I was beimng scarcastic about the nuremburg statement. I know it sounds like a circle, but it isnt. I just think other nations should act hypocritical toward us. And I wasnt referring to you. I'll be more clear in the future.

My attitude is obnoxious? Please explain to me why. I don't really care what happened with your cousin, but he sounds like a pretty rational bloke.

Yeah he's a great guy.

I find your attitude obnoxious, you dont bother to debate me you only bother to respond in the 'i'm right'' attituude.
--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 6:56 am on June 5, 2003)
[/quote]

Loknar

5th June 2003, 07:26

OK, I just saw George W. do the splits naked while smoking a cigar with his cowboy hat on. I swear it! I saw it in a magazine. I just can't prove it.

This is what I mean, obnoxious. Why did you repond like this even though I said I would search for a web page?
[b]
This is not what the topics about. But in answer, which Commie army are you talking about? I, myself, have never seen a 'commie army' anywhere in the world. Ever.

[/quote]

Really? Are you going to tell me that Mao's guerilla army was made up of capitolists?

Urban Rubble

5th June 2003, 20:20

"Oh, so you think the homeless want to be homeless? I don't think so.

This is why I am for unemployment but if they refuse to work then they dont deserve to take up space"

Oh my God, are you that fucking naieve ? First, you can't get un-employement unless you have a certain amount of hours from a previous job, obviously if the homeless had a job they wouldn't need un-employment. Second, a very small portion of homeless people "refuse work", they simply cannot find work. You are so insensitive, but that's America I guess, "hey, I'm doing all right, who cares about the rest of the world".

You say it's O.K to spend $400 billion on defense ? Are you aware that $400 billion dollars would be enough to feed the entire world for at least a year ?

You think teachers are to blame for our shitty education system ? Man, you should run for some kind of political office, with that stance I'm sure you'd win. It's amazing no one in this country sees the stupidity of a pro baseball player making $10 million a year for playing a game, yet the teachers who are shaping the minds of future citizens are paid $20,000 a year. That's fucking sad man, how do you justify this?

You are hopeless, just like the rest of this fucking country. Let's just to keep bombing Third World countries and calling the craters "freedom holes", that's the solution.

Loknar

5th June 2003, 23:54

Urban Rubble

Oh my God, are you that fucking naieve ? First, you can't get un-employement unless you have a certain amount of hours from a previous job, obviously if the homeless had a job they wouldn't need un-employment. Second, a very small portion of homeless people "refuse work", they simply cannot find work. You are so insensitive, but that's America I guess, "hey, I'm doing all right, who cares about the rest of the world".

Ha, anyone can get on SS and welfare now. It is not used for its orgional purpose. There are famlies who live off of welfare because they dont want to work. Believe me, my father was of this group and a friends family as well. If you loose your job you get money though.

Can we agre that if people dont want to work they dont deserve welfare?

You say it's O.K to spend $400 billion on defense ? Are you aware that $400 billion dollars would be enough to feed the entire world for at least a year ?

Most famines are man made, I dont see why it is America's responcibility. Every time we do send fopod some asshole warlord just takes it.

You think teachers are to blame for our shitty education system ? Man, you should run for some kind of political office, with that stance I'm sure you'd win.

No, I said that the parents are mostly to blame.

You are hopeless, just like the rest of this fucking country. Let's just to keep bombing Third World countries and calling the craters "freedom holes", that's the solution.

Tell me your solution.
Do you agree that military actions is necessary at times?

IHP

6th June 2003, 01:45

"So we should save lives if someone may acidently die"

So collatoral damage is perfectly okay? A few people here and there can die to satisfy America's rage? Unbelievable.

"I was only kidding actually. I think the current budget is fine"

Really? Military spending is extremely excessive. It is not 'fine'.

'Ok, show me how the american educational system is going down the drain,. Because where I live math scores just went up. My sources , damn, it was a while ago i read it. But the source may have been conservative so I dont think you would believe it. If you would like I think I cann dig it up '

Once again you can't prove anything. Am I being 'obnoxious'? It's you that has to put up with the educational system, not me. Have it your way.

"I'm not blameing the teachers, I blame the parents. The teachers need to have dictatorial power in the class room. Also not every school is a slum, in fact most arent. I live in a Urba area'

Oh? You could have fooled me. Hence "The parents and teachers are the key" So now it's not the teachers fault? Make up your mind.

I was beimng scarcastic about the nuremburg statement. I know it sounds like a circle, but it isnt. I just think other nations should act hypocritical toward us. And I wasnt referring to you. I'll be more clear in the future."

That would be appreciated. There seems to be a lot of confusion about when you are serious or not. Curious..

"I find your attitude obnoxious, you dont bother to debate me you only bother to respond in the 'i'm right'' attituude"

Ok, I'm going to say it: You are a fool. I have been debating with you, and of course with the "i'm right attitude'. Why wouldn't I? Well you're obnoxious for thinking that you're right. Get a clue.

'This is what I mean, obnoxious. Why did you repond like this even though I said I would search for a web page? '

No you did not.

"Really? Are you going to tell me that Mao's guerilla army was made up of capitolists?'

How were they communist? You can call yourself anything you want, it doesn't make it so.

--IHP

Loknar

6th June 2003, 02:22

So collatoral damage is perfectly okay? A few people here and there can die to satisfy America's rage? Unbelievable.

Sometimes the gloves have to come off.

Really? Military spending is extremely excessive. It is not 'fine'.

Well you have your opinion and I have mine.

Oh? You could have fooled me. Hence "The parents and teachers are the key" So now it's not the teachers fault? Make up your mind.

I said that the parents and teachers are key. I mean that to imply you need the 2 to ensure a child gets a good edcuation.

That would be appreciated. There seems to be a lot of confusion about when you are serious or not. Curious..

Lack of emoticons :)

Ok, I'm going to say it: You are a fool. I have been debating with you, and of course with the "i'm right attitude'. Why wouldn't I? Well you're obnoxious for thinking that you're right. Get a clue.

But I dont go with a pissy attitude. You only know how to talk not communicate.

No you did not.

Yes I did.

How were they communist? You can call yourself anything you want, it doesn't make it so.

WHy would they go on a long march if they didnt believe in their cause?

Anonymous

6th June 2003, 02:37

Quote: from notyetacommie on 5:55 am on June 2, 2003

Quote: from kelvin9 on 1:44 am on May 31, 2003

Quote: from nz revolution on 11:33 am on May 29, 2003
American soldiers are as honourable as communist (soviet & chinese) soldiers.

Remember My Lai in Vietnam you idiot? As well as numerous massacres.

Then there is always Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

My Lai did occur. I could level the same requirement on you from your fellow comrades and ask for proof. I will not. There was a cover up and Medina and Calley were court marshalled. It is very clear what behavior the US Amry expects from it soldiers. Ever hear of a Red Army soldier getting court marshalled for the atroticies in Berlin? Yes it did happen.

There is no similiar expectation of behavior in communist armies.

The bombs. Again the dishonor falls upon the men who brought about the chain of events leading to the bombs, not the behavior or the men carrying out the mission.

Just a little off thread. Again the question is the behavior of soldiers on a battle field.

You keep amazing me with your ignorance and desire to throw dirt on the Soviet army. Check out this link:http://www.mn.ru/issue.php?2002-24-38. It is a counter arguement of the Russian Ambassador to the G.B. Grigory Karasin. He argues that the facts described by Beavor are true.
"There is no similiar expectation of behavior in communist armies."
As for the expectation of behavior, this interview holds the fact that 4148 looters or other military criminals engaged in violent actions were court-martialled by the Soviets in 1945. Some of them were sentenced to death. The US army sentenced to death 69 persons over the same periode of time.
I am sorry this is all in Russian, but you must know the language of the peope you accuse of being so violent if you want to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt, just to read their documents as well, right, kelvin?
As a matter of fact, my uncle served in Eastern Germany, and he told us that the Soviet soldiers were treated with due respect, which would not be the case had they been such murderers and rapers as described by Mr Beavor.

It is a book review. What it has to say has already been said here.

IHP

6th June 2003, 14:05

"Sometimes the gloves have to come off."

And it doesn't matter who they come off at. How about you live in a place that has been bombed several times. The bombs come again. Well, heck, the gloves had to come off. How old are you?

"Well you have your opinion and I have mine"

Absolutely. Unfortunately, homeless people don't have an opinion that counts. Nor do single working parents etc.

"But I dont go with a pissy attitude. You only know how to talk not communicate"

Surely you have soft skin.

"WHy would they go on a long march if they didnt believe in their cause?"

Belive in what you want. It doesn't make it so.

--IHP

Loknar

6th June 2003, 15:16

And it doesn't matter who they come off at. How about you live in a place that has been bombed several times. The bombs come again. Well, heck, the gloves had to come off. How old are you?

Sometimes it doesnt unfortunately. We were correct in bombing Dresden and useing atomic bombs. I wouldnt want to have you in charge of any country while involved in a war, you would surrender before the enemy even reached you borders.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, homeless people don't have an opinion that counts. Nor do single working parents etc.

I am from a single parent home and I cann tell you that if ther parents work hard their children can do just fine. But overall my point was that if a person doesnt want to work then he is taking up space and shouldnt be supported by hard working peoples tax dollars.

Surely you have soft skin.

No I dont, if we were talking in real life I wouldnt mind talking even worse but it is a pain in thr ass to type an arguement. And I have anger problems, road rage ect.. so I am be no means soft skin. Hell I stare people down while I drive.

Belive in what you want. It doesn't make it so.

So 80,000 people followed Mao because....?

IHP

6th June 2003, 23:42

Ok, that's about enough. You are an idiot. This finishes now. Your mickey mouse arguments are an absolute joke. I just hope one day you get bombed by a superpower, warmonger.

--IHP

Loknar

7th June 2003, 05:12

If that is how you are going to finish, then you've lost the arguement.

(Edited by Loknar at 5:13 am on June 7, 2003)

Pete

7th June 2003, 05:15

He did not loose the arguement, your last post did not address the arguement of the thread, war monger.

Vinny Rafarino

7th June 2003, 05:55

Did we not already prove that this little boy is simply that...A wee laddie....For fuck's sake man!...Stop embarrassing yourself!

Loknar

7th June 2003, 06:11

Little boy? Dude I am 6 feet tall and close to 300 pounds. Dont call me a little boy you computer nerd.

IHP

7th June 2003, 07:59

Says you with Cartman as his avatar? And gets offended by my 'obnoxious attitude'? Hmph. By the way, on what grounds do you base this 'computer nerd' on? The fact that he's posting on a message board much like yourself?

I finished the argument because I tire of your pathetic arguments. Seriously, like RAF said, stop embaressing yourself.

Ta-ta.

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 2:16 pm on June 7, 2003)

RAM

7th June 2003, 21:48

The American troops were appauling in Iraq! They would shoot first and ask questions latter! Iraqis would wave support in fear so that they were not shot at and the US would fire on the media!

Vinny Rafarino

8th June 2003, 01:03

Quote: from Loknar on 6:11 am on June 7, 2003
Little boy? Dude I am 6 feet tall and close to 300 pounds. Dont call me a little boy you computer nerd.

I see...Eating disorder, low self esteem, low intelligence.
Your future is bleak little boy.

Pete

8th June 2003, 01:49

Quote: from RAM on 4:48 pm on June 7, 2003
The American troops were appauling in Iraq! They would shoot first and ask questions latter! Iraqis would wave support in fear so that they were not shot at and the US would fire on the media!

They are still in Iraq RAM. Recently a few more soldiers were killed by Iraqi geurrillas. The war is not over, it is only beginning.

Loknar

8th June 2003, 02:00

I see...Eating disorder, low self esteem, low intelligence.
Your future is bleak little boy.

HAHA. I carry 6 gallon buckets (1 for each arm) on my job (I have to walk far sometimes, last night I had to walk about 30 yards and up a flight of stairs), I use a 30 pound (I should buy a 35 Pounder) dumbell for armcurls and a 15 pounder (I should actually buy a 20 pounder) for arm bars.

(Edited by Loknar at 2:01 am on June 8, 2003)

Vinny Rafarino

8th June 2003, 02:19

Now it all fits together.......We have a meathead among us!

None of this impresses me boy. Now to more imprtant matters.

Yes RAM this was will last many years...Eventually Iraq as we knew it will no longer exist...Much like post-occupied Japan. Soon their will be a nice western-friendly government in place with a nice "native Iraqi" president who was probably born in Detroit.

Let us review our list of little Americas in the middle east....
Turkey
Saudi-Arabia
Kuwait
Afghanistan
Iraq

That's a big list boys....We're in trouble.

Loknar

8th June 2003, 02:41

Turkey is not an American puppet state neither is Saudi Arabia. If this were true then TUrkey would have allowed us to use their soil for a northern front in Iraq. Saudi Arabia hates us, they just like us drilling their oil.

You must be child, you always have to throw back an insult. I bet you are a totally different person in real life who wouldnt say half the shit you say to me . If this ups your own self esteem then by all means continue to insult me.

(Edited by Loknar at 2:46 am on June 8, 2003)

Pete

8th June 2003, 03:01

Turkey
Saudi-Arabia
Kuwait
Afghanistan
Iraq

Turkey is more or less in America's pocket. Of course they have autonomity, puppets do not make themselves that obvious.

The Sauds are being torn between America and Islam (many many attacks in Saudi). But at the moment the American connection is strong and the Sauds keep their tightfisted rule.

Kuwait...Did you see those babies bouncing in 1991?

Afganistan: NO! Afganistan is now in the hands of feuding warlords picking over the scraps of a country. The Taliban, if I am to believe what I read, are slowly re gaining popularity because atleast they provided stability, where as America has handed them hell. Civil war, not puppet state.

Iraq is still not subdued, and I don't think it will be...ever. The longer America stays in and the more they point their guns around the harder it will be keep control. Pan-arabism is a force not to be reckoned with, espeically with TWO common enemies.

CubanFox

8th June 2003, 03:05

Personally I think that intelligence is far superior to atheltic ability, Loknar and RAF.

Pete

8th June 2003, 03:16

Okay. A little thing I forgot, or two.

There has been atleast 1 war fought by America to protect the Sauds...

and Lonkar and RAF STOP FLAMING! I don't want to close this thread, but I will see what I can do to stop your bloody immature flame war. And I don't give to shits who started it!

Loknar

8th June 2003, 03:20

CubanFox

I agree, but you should appear strong in my opinion because it is a sign of strength.

IHP

8th June 2003, 06:14

No, it's not, it's a sign of insecurity, falling back on these supposed 'strengths.' Bucko, outside of my university course, I'm a concreter. I work with big, strong guys all the time. Not one of them feels the need to boast about it. What's the classic saying? 'If you ain't got it, talk about it. Grow up, please, you are on a political message board, even if your 'strength' were to be true, it has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of an argument.

--IHP

Loknar

8th June 2003, 06:39

Never Cry in front of anyone.
Be strong both physically and mentally
Never show off
Admit when you're wrong
If you have something to tell someone dont have someone else do it for you

That is what I believe.

I wasnt talking about winning an arguement. I was orgionally adressing your comment that I was fat and low intelligence.

IHP

8th June 2003, 07:05

Nice rationale, I hope you implement it one day.

"I wasnt talking about winning an arguement. I was orgionally adressing your comment that I was fat and low intelligence. "

When did I say that? I'm an arsehole, but I'm not that blatant.

--IHP

Loknar

8th June 2003, 07:41

It was RAF, my mistake. sorry

Loknar

8th June 2003, 07:53

Never Cry in front of anyone.
Be strong both physically and mentally
Never show off
Admit when you're wrong
If you have something to tell someone dont have someone else do it for you

I've lived by all of these rules.

atlanticche

12th June 2003, 19:32

so you mean Loknar that america should invade whoever it doesnt like

RAM

12th June 2003, 21:14

Quote: from CrazyPete on 1:49 am on June 8, 2003

Quote: from RAM on 4:48 pm on June 7, 2003
The American troops were appauling in Iraq! They would shoot first and ask questions latter! Iraqis would wave support in fear so that they were not shot at and the US would fire on the media!

They are still in Iraq RAM. Recently a few more soldiers were killed by Iraqi geurrillas. The war is not over, it is only beginning.

I know that they are soory am error in my typing

RAM

12th June 2003, 21:17

Quote: from CubanFox on 3:05 am on June 8, 2003
Personally I think that intelligence is far superior to atheltic ability, Loknar and RAF.

I would agree with that!

Comrade Mathew

18th June 2003, 14:55

To all who think the american army is soooo great just one fact...

American seals get trained by german combat divers!!!
Also in america just sergents are trained to lead a troop in germany every privat learns that!
the only problem about our army is that its not big enough if it was we would kick american asses

goldglove

18th June 2003, 16:39

"Pan-Arabism is a force not to be reckoned with..."

Crazy Pete, I think you meant to say it is a force to be reckoned with....

goldy

Caldric

21st June 2003, 01:01

the only problem about our army is that its not big enough if it was we would kick american asses

Keep dreaming, U.S has a larger population, is huge compared to Germany and has massive army and can in a matter of a few short weeks throw millions of Conscript troops into battle. Most Germans are afraid of having some type of strong army, and are unwilling to fight at all. So how big is the German Airforce, I'm estimating about 1500 aircraft. U.S has 62000 aircraft of which 3000 are fighters for the air-to-air role. Germany has good tanks, just not a nuff, only about 750 tanks. U.S has 12.000 tanks, of which are upgraded M-60's and of all M1 versions. You must alos have strong Navy as well. Besides, fighting the U.S is impossible because of nukes. U.S has 10,856 Nuclear warheads. Germany got zip. No chemical weapons either.

(Edited by Caldric at 1:25 am on June 21, 2003)

IHP

21st June 2003, 02:14

Caldric, I'm not agreeing with whoever you have quoted there, but need I just clarify it for you?

You have boasted about the size, not the capability outside of pure quantity. Whoever you have quoted, I believe he/she was saying that man for man, aircraft to aircraft, that the German army could defeat the U.S army.

I'm not going to justify that, as I didn't state it to begin with. But I think you just misunderstood.

--IHP

Zombie

22nd June 2003, 08:22

U.S has 10,856 Nuclear warheads

hey bucko, guess who led to the invention of those nuclear weapons you brag about so much. yes yes that's it.

so you mean Loknar that america should invade whoever it doesnt like

it has always done so, read some Chomsky "What Uncle Sam really wants", it will give you a rough idea of how much American Imperialismo beats all previous countries at it. It's sickening.

RAM

22nd June 2003, 10:20

Err you can fight terroism without starting wars with nations. The UK has done that with the IRA

Loknar

23rd June 2003, 06:56

And the IRA continues to bomb them. Didn’t they cut an opening in the roof of a van and launch some mortar rounds at Parliament?

Anyway, if you read history you will know that hitting the nest is always a successful way of dealing with terrorists. We did it in the 1800‘s and we did in in Afghanistan. You notice the results when you hear AL-Queda members asking for $80 over a radio set.

Oh, and everyone knows that had Beijing or Moscow been hit like America Kabul would be in ruins,

RAM

23rd June 2003, 10:30

The UK Police has taken measures against the IRA e.g. there were very few bins on railway sations or in the centre of London so that terrosits could not put bombs in the bins. That is a simple way of dealing with terroism that probaly prevented some bombs working in central Lodon and in other parts. Also if one strikes at the bees next then you can end up encouraging then with more angar at you and make things worse! Hmmm I would stick with the UK appraoch of taking our own steps to preven terroim without invading other countries to do it and being more suceesfull.

(I would not call the war in Afghanistan and Iraq a UK war as it was just a blood commitemt by Blair for Bush!)

notyetacommie

24th June 2003, 03:17

Oh, and everyone knows that had Beijing or Moscow been hit like America Kabul would be in ruins,

[/quote]

At the very least, the Russians or the Chinese would destroy all the poppy fields instead of encouraging the drug traffic the way you do. Some anti-terrorist heroes, ha!

Loknar

28th June 2003, 07:04

Quote: from notyetacommie on 3:17 am on June 24, 2003
Oh, and everyone knows that had Beijing or Moscow been hit like America Kabul would be in ruins,

At the very least, the Russians or the Chinese would destroy all the poppy fields instead of encouraging the drug traffic the way you do. Some anti-terrorist heroes, ha![/quote]

No they wouldnt,. Nobody gives a damn about poppy seeds, it is something for you to complain about.

CubanFox

28th June 2003, 08:32

Quote: from Loknar on 7:04 am on June 28, 2003

Quote: from notyetacommie on 3:17 am on June 24, 2003
Oh, and everyone knows that had Beijing or Moscow been hit like America Kabul would be in ruins,

At the very least, the Russians or the Chinese would destroy all the poppy fields instead of encouraging the drug traffic the way you do. Some anti-terrorist heroes, ha!

No they wouldnt,. Nobody gives a damn about poppy seeds, it is something for you to complain about.[/quote]

You have no idea what a poppy field is used for, do you?

Loknar

28th June 2003, 13:04

Quote: from CubanFox on 8:32 am on June 28, 2003

Quote: from Loknar on 7:04 am on June 28, 2003

Quote: from notyetacommie on 3:17 am on June 24, 2003
Oh, and everyone knows that had Beijing or Moscow been hit like America Kabul would be in ruins,

At the very least, the Russians or the Chinese would destroy all the poppy fields instead of encouraging the drug traffic the way you do. Some anti-terrorist heroes, ha!

No they wouldnt,. Nobody gives a damn about poppy seeds, it is something for you to complain about.

You have no idea what a poppy field is used for, do you?[/quote]

http://www.heroin.org/afghanistan/index.html
http://www.heroin.org/poppy.html

Ã‘Ã³ẊÃ®Ã¶ŉ

28th June 2003, 20:12

They didn't destroy the poppy fields because the CIA makes money out of it.

Rastafari

3rd July 2003, 18:27

Quote: from Victorcommie on 5:23 am on May 24, 2003
Americans claim the defeat of the Nazis as an American achievement, Americans are over-patriotic, Americans are conceited, Americans can't compare the U$ army to any otehr army because they're too conceited to care or even know what goes on in the rest of the world.

This is called Nationalism, friend, and America just has more of it than anyone else

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 20:51

Quote: from AK47 on 11:27 am on May 24, 2003

We have the most highly-trained

Actually no you dont. The UK's standard army has an equil training program to the US elite units such as the Rangers. UK special forces have far higher training than any US unit.

The Isreili army special forces have far higher training than any US unit.

Both of these claims are fallacies and not measurable

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 20:52

Quote: from nz revolution on 2:21 pm on May 24, 2003
You must have seen the interviews with the U$ soldiers in Iraq? Some of them had the IQ of a pea.

One said he wanted to get his nose dirty and get a bit of revenge for 9/11. The reporter said the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia not Iraq. Then the yank said "That stuff is way over my head"

What he doesn't understand the concept of borders and nationalities? Only how to fire a gun and obey orders. He sounds highly trained doesn't he?

There are stupid soldiers and smart soldier in every military

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:10

Quote: from RAM on 12:26 pm on May 24, 2003

We have the most highly-trained

Yep! I saw this thing were our RAF piliots were much better than the US and we won this US V UK Championship and the US were so embarrased that thye presented the award after the UK piliots had gone home!

Dude, get serious.

I would like to see any of this documented, because I can tell you, most analysts will agree that US pilots are better than RAF pilots. They have more combat experience, more training ours, and better frequency of training

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:13

Quote: from lostsoul on 4:05 pm on May 24, 2003

I don’t think money makes a huge difference, in the korea war(admit it or not), china took America. China was a poor country, poor equipment for their soliders, bad living conditions, and they recently took over a government that just collapsed. And yet they took on America, Austrial, Britain, Canada(and I think one more country). There is no way you can say that, even at that time, China’s military budget was even 5% of Americians.

This is just a plain Fallacy. China took much, much heavier losses than the USA when the two forces met during Korea.

US forces did go back to the 38th parallel, but that was our objective the whole time. As far as fighting and battles go goes, the chinese got creamed by the US

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:17

Quote: from Zombie on 6:27 pm on May 24, 2003

Who was talking about allied nations? The afghans liberated themselves.

Oh, really? Wow, great timing for them to "liberate themselves" after we bombed the taliban and rooted them out of power after 10 years of the opposition fighting them to no avail. I guess the afghan people were going to do it anyway, without our help. America really had nothing to do with it. Purely coincedence.

What an idiot

"The afghans liberated themselves."

LOL,LOL, I just had to read this comedy again.
What an idiot.

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:24

Quote: from lostsoul on 4:51 am on May 24, 2003
North korea(korean war), Iraq, afganistan, Serbia, Vietnam,etc..

Anyone notice they take on seriously weaker countries?

and if there is a even a slight chance of them losing they pussy out and just bomb their opponents?

So why do people think highly of america's army? I would think Germany's, soviet, or china's army would get more respect for doing so much damage to stronger armies.

So where does this respect/fear come from?

You conveniently left out the cold war, the american revolution, the war of 1812, WWII, and our involvement in WWI.

We were the underdog in every one of those wars

what about Somalia, when 50 US troops fought there way out of the middle of a city against 5000 gunmen and countless obstacles, and most survived?

During gulf war I, the Iraqi army was the world's 4th largest, and 4x the size of US forces deployed in Iraq.

The NVA army and vietcong in vietnam was very well equipped and well trained, sponsored by the USSR, and overpopulated US forces by millions

Afghanistan started the fight, we didn't. They should have considered the size difference before crossing us.

Serbia? They had highly capable ex-soviet equipment. Also, again, they were given the chance to avoid war

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:31

Quote: from Guardia Bolivariano on 6:00 am on May 26, 2003
The US had 3 real wars.
2 of them in the XIX century agaisnt the UK, in wich the US had strong allies and a enemy that had to fight numerous enemies at once.

The other war was ww2 the americans came in late in that war and they were provided with bases by the UK and strong allies like the USSR.

In the pacific well they had to resort to nukes.

American military history might be full of victories but little honor.

mere excuses and dismissal of american power. even with all the battles england fought in XIX century, the US was still the underdog, and deserves every bit of credit dfor its victories

stop making excuses, and just concede to american power

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:34

Quote: from lostsoul on 9:57 pm on May 25, 2003

Quote: from kelvin9 on 9:32 pm on May 24, 2003
Were does it say when you wage war that you must attack an enemy where they are strongest? No sane military leader in 10, 000 years of human hisstory will attack an enemy at their strongest when they have the option of attacking an enmey were they are weakest.

What your saying is correct, but i don't see that as any reason to fear the americian army.

Its just like an adult going to a playground and picking on children. Those people never get respect, they only get fucked up later on.

well, were are not the bully, we are the savior. we've been in plenty of fights where we were the underdog

if you have no reason to fear the US army, it because you have no proposition of actually facing them. if you did, you would not be smug

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:44

Quote: from notyetacommie on 3:05 pm on May 27, 2003
There are none who survived in many Ukrainian, Russian and Byelorussian cities. You know, the difference between Hitler and Saddam (or any other leader of a screwed country) is that Hitler (and the Germans who supported him, and who should have known about the risk of killing 20mln and getting revenge from the Soviets) attacked the USSR, while NONE of the nations that the US has been fighting with so far attacked the USA. Not even the Japanese, as the US were the first to bomb their submarine, thus declaring war on them, and as the Pearl Harbor wasn't an American state then, it only became the state around 1959.
Are you trying to say that raping is more evil than simply killing civilians?
As far as I know, some Soviet soldiers were subject to court martials for killing the German POWs after their whole families had been raped and murdered, and there are documents that prove this, but I haven't heard of any documents supporting what that Beavor block is saying. Talking about the Communist imperialism living in the country where anglo-saxons RAPED and KILLED Native Americans during the times of coloniazation is, you know, not politically correct. Are you a Native American? No? Get off from this land!!!

this guy is actually suggesting that we attacked japan 1st?

now you've lost all credibility

attacking a prying sub is different that a surprise bombing attack on a soveriegn base

the Japaneze started WWII in the pacific, and they are responsible for the ultimate outcome, no one else

Capitalist Imperial

23rd July 2003, 21:50

Almost all of these posts are pure BS, hating, dismissal, and excuse making

luckily for me, i really don't have to really explain america's success and power

our record speaks for itself, and real world results will always take precedence over your petty excuses

BTW, if china or north korea wants to step up, will be happy to add to our winning record against them as well

Xprewatik RED

23rd July 2003, 22:00

Capitalist Imperial sorry to burst your bubble, but the USSR won World War Two. The USSR fought 2.5/3 million Axis soldiers as opposed to the less than 500,000 forces which opposed the: French resistance, United Kingdom, United States, Australia, and other Common Wealth nations.
World War one was primarily won by French soldiers who boar the brunt of the Western front. The 2million Us troops involved in the AEF group were supplied completly with French and English armarments because the buisnessmen appointed to organized the war effort still had not managed to get the heavy armarments pumping.
Vietnam you lost and in the process MURDERED yes MURDERED 1million innocent citzens.
Other than that you have never engaged in a war against an even 2nd world nation.

Capitalist Imperial

24th July 2003, 02:50

Ghost Writer

24th July 2003, 08:17

It pisses me off to hear all the disparaging remarks these guttermouth left leaning whining yellow bellied cowards make. Therefore, I chose to steer clear of this topic. It's nice to see somebody who actually has some understanding or the real world, and the significance of the U.S. military power. Good to see you back, CI.

Your Friend,

Stormin Norman

notyetacommie

24th July 2003, 09:53

Quote: from Ghost Writer on 8:17 am on July 24, 2003
It pisses me off to hear all the disparaging remarks these guttermouth left leaning whining yellow bellied cowards make. Therefore, I chose to steer clear of this topic. It's nice to see somebody who actually has some understanding or the real world, and the significance of the U.S. military power. Stormin Norman

Do you still think the real world is what you think it is? I'm glad you found another idiot who is always ready to boast of the murders the US has commited over the years in history.

CI,please read this:http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/forrel/cuba/cuba020.htm
I'd say Khrushev was a very reasonable man, much more reasonable than your war-monger Kennedy.

Also, read this: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSkhrushchev.htm

It says that actually Kennedy accepted Khrushev's ultimatum, which lead to the withdrawal of the Soviet WMDs from Cuba. So, it was Kennedy who was chicken. But, you know, sometimes it's wiser to be a chicken, because if Kennedy had not been chicken then, we wouldn't be discussing things here now, and I doubt there would be anyone living on Earth at all.

The USSR had a lot of neighbors who possessed WMDs, and they weren't going to screw their neighbors, but when the Americans faced such a situation, they simply shitted their pants. That says something about their national character, right?

Xprewatik RED

24th July 2003, 10:19

really? the soviets won WWII? I guess you forgot all about the pacific theatre, which we fought pretty much by ourselves, and destroyed the Japaneze navy, something that russia was not able to do when they fought Japan. where were you in the pacific? yeah, looks like you weren't even there. so, take credit for your one theatre, we fought in 2, and one of them we fought without allied help. yes, we had ome spplements from china, australia, and the UK, but it was by no means an allied effort like in europe.

to say that "the soviets" won world war II exposes your lack of historical knowledge and understanding of the allied effort. everyone deserves credit for WWII. Without the US in the west, the soviets would have been defeated, and vice versa. we needed each other.

First of all the war in Europe was won by the USSR.
In Asia it was the US in China. Since China held of millions a Japanese armed to the teeth. However you did not lose 30million people in that war.

The USSR loss in afghanistan was the beginning of the end of the soviet empire, while Americas loss in vietnam really didn't affect america ecoomically or poilitically.

then, 12 years after you left afghanistan, the US went in and did it right.

oh, and I remember when we spat in your face during the cuban missle crisis, and sent kruchev packing with hs tail between hs legs

First of all, I hate the USSR more than you can understand. It oppressed and destroyed my country. Second of all in the Cuban missle crisis the US wet its pants in fear. Than they withdrew nukes from Turkey just so we wouldnt step on you.
But the USSR is gone. Get over it. Only one oppressive nation left.

-You know when you bombed Lebenon and murdered people.
-When you killed 10,000 people in Somalia
-Vietanam
-bombing of Laos
-bombing of the Guatemala
-Arming a Guatemalain army which murderd 200,000 people
-Supplying Saddam Huessein during the 1980's
etc...

(Edited by Xprewatik RED at 1:20 pm on July 24, 2003)

Mr MOAB

24th July 2003, 18:13

Some of you may remember me by the name M1 Abrams. I've been content as of late to merely observe and not put in my two cents. However, this thread has compelled me to return in rare form as MR. MOAB. While most of this incoherant babble isn't even worthy of a response, some comments require immediate attention. First and formost how dare you denounce the United states role in WWII. It was not just a victory for the US but for the world. Those that do not know that either a) can't read or B) chooses not to. History speaks volumes about Americas ability to wage TOTAL war on any country on this earth. Your argument that if only germany had our numbers they could defeat us is ridiculous. The greatest boxer on earth may very well be a lightweight. Yet if confronted by even an average heavyweight he would be quickly be destroyed. And germany is hardly as proficient in waging war as we are. For those of you that question our victory in the pacific because we "resorted to using nukes" you are idiots. When war is on it's on! Period! The gloves are off! I do not question the use of the Atom bomb for the same reason I don't question the Iraqis current guerilla attacks on the US; because it's WAR! You use whatever means you must to get the job done. Now in the case of the Iraqis, there efforts are little more than a proverbial paper cut to the US. But the The atom bomb effectivly ended the war. Did it save more lives than it took? I say who cares. It ENDED the war with us as the victors. Now even if you don't believe in war, it is a reality. And once it starts someone has to end it. I'll end with a quote that I think clearly defines the United States stance toward all it's military counterparts. I was at a party and having a verbal altercation with a man. He was making threats and being loud. I let him talk and then said this. "You can say anything you want, but at the end of the day if we go into the back yard, you're the one who's going to the hospital, not me!" Figure it out guys.

(Edited by Mr MOAB at 6:22 pm on July 24, 2003)

Invader Zim

24th July 2003, 18:34

Xprewatik RED it hurts me to say this but CI has got the USSR's and the rest of the allies significance in WW2 far more accuratly than you have. However firstly before I say anything more I add that with out the USSR we would have lost the war! But I do not believe that the USA necessarily turned the tide of WW2, even if they did then it was hardly they who should get the credit for it. I dont know how many men there were from the USA however I do know it was tiny compaired to the troop input of other nations on the western front alone. But the USA was funding and supplying many of the allied nations before they joined and with out that Britain would have fallen at least. Britain being a major player in the defence of europe falling would have caused the collapse of the western front. All those troops defending iot could have been moved to the eastern front and annialated the USSR's resistance. All this remember is before the USSR had begun to start winning battles and recapturing land.

WEll thats my take on the situation as it stood, all the allies needed each other. If you care to try and shred this to pieces I will be more than happy to dig up the debate on this in the history forum.

AK47

Mr MOAB

24th July 2003, 20:39

Show some respect commies

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

24th July 2003, 20:58

Wow what an intelligent and really marvelous words!

Stupid

Mr MOAB

25th July 2003, 16:50