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MindYourself
5th November 2008, 01:12
Some days ago, i was reading a political economy article in the official newspaper of the Greek Communist Party, the article itself being a product of its Central Comission, focused on the inevitable downfall of the capitalistic economic system.

(I strongly suspect this issue has been brought about countless times in this site, and this forum in particular, so i feel i must thank in advance those who reply for their patience.)
It analyzed how the capitalistic system leads to a huge socialization of labour, which does not produce public goods, but goods that apply to the needs of the market and that are profitable to the capitalists, thus leading to a growing inability to cover public needs, as the market itself gradually becomes a monopoly.

Using Marx's exact words, the authors predicted the above facts to lead to a social uprising, finally bringing down the way the capitalistic system works.

Perhaps my perception of Marx's theory is poor, but i think that the above do not take into account the fact that capitalism affects hugely our political and social systems and life.
In my opinion, modern times capitalism, has managed to control a great percentage of the political processes needed, to play a central-planning like role in modern societies. In my perception, big company trusts over the world have managed to pretain a sufficient (according to their profit goals) level of covering needs for the public, while they can still make profit. This method is enhanced by the fact that public medias and tight working programms prevent the vast majority from getting the adequate education and information they need to revolt. They also prevent them from getting the conscience of the potential strength their movement would hold. In few words, people lack the necessary social interaction to revolt substantially.

I say substantially, because the capital usually has the strength to withstand social pressure, by disorientating it towards the political leadership (giving thus an important example of the effects of the above mentioned hypothesis). All the capital has to do is reduce profits for just a little while (if social conscience is too high) and change the political leadership it basically funds. If not, it can practically do anything to continue making profit, even when the problem is a product of interior capitalist processes and not a product of a clash between public and capitalist interests, just like the contemporary financial crisis, when everywhere in the western world, governments use public wealth to refinance their operations.

So to sum up, i think i doubt capitalism has the ablity to destroy itself, unless something truly radical happens concerning people's social awareness to help this whole process get an end.

PS: I posted this thread in the learning section some days ago too.I got some opinions there, but im out looking for some more.

Valeofruin
5th November 2008, 02:46
Capitalism will 'destroy' itself indirectly. IE. it will make revolution a life or death issue.

MindYourself
5th November 2008, 13:51
Capitalism will 'destroy' itself indirectly. IE. it will make revolution a life or death issue.


Only if the mass is conscious and ready. Else they die, or gain something temporary, before getting back to capitalism.
Moreover even an elitist guidance of the masses to the communist cause is doomed to fail if you ask me, just because the socialization of industry will require a dangerous period where the proletariat wont be able to exercise control over the leaders of the revolution.

cop an Attitude
5th November 2008, 15:03
Capitalism will 'destroy' itself indirectly. IE. it will make revolution a life or death issue.

yes, I feel the same way. People are not aware of their class postion or their opression of the bourgeoisie. The media does keep a tiight lid on this topic, they themselves being capitalists thus leaving most to obey the current way. Eventully the search for profit and cut through compition will lead to its demise. The first of which and the one that seems to be the most likly is a major market crash. One side of the market will buckle and then steadly the market will fall. The great depression is only a minor problem compared to a depression today. With most of the world trade working through America's companies a United States market crash would have global effects, from the suburban white collar to the sweatshop worker in china. Depressions happen, its the way of the market, but when will a depression be to big to get itself out. Also during times of major crisis people will be more open to alternatives such as socailism and communism. The goverment is also a tool to keep capitalism in power so if any revolution was to happen the US military would intervine, like they have in the past (granada, cuba ect). People need a slap in the face before they can understand and take action. Capitalism has such a strong grip on the people today, it is where they get their news, where they work and where they get all their cultural norms and the only way for them to see this is for there to be a wake up call.

Bilan
7th November 2008, 12:17
The Theory of the Collapse of Capitalism (http://libcom.org/library/theory-of-the-collapse-of-capitalism-pannekoek)- Pannekoek


The workers' movement has not to expect a final catastrophe, but many catastrophes, political - like wars, and economic - like the crises which repeatedly break out, sometimes regularly, sometimes irregularly, but which on the whole, with the growing size of capitalism, become more and more devastating. So the illusions and tendencies to tranquillity of the proletariat will repeatedly collapse, and sharp and deep class struggles will break out. It appears to be a contradiction that the present crisis, deeper and more devastating than any previous one, has not shown signs of the awakening of the proletarian revolution. But the removal of old illusions is its first great task: on the other hand, the illusion of making capitalism bearable by means of reforms obtained through Social Democratic parliamentary politics and trade union action and, on the other, the illusion that capitalism can be overthrown in assault under the leadership of a revolution-bringing Communist Party. The working class itself, as a whole, must conduct the struggle, but, while the bourgeoisie is already building up its power more and more solidly, the working class has yet to make itself familiar with the new forms of struggle. Severe struggles are bound to take place. And should the present crisis abate, new crises and new struggles will arise. In these struggles the working class will develop its strength to struggle, will discover its aims, will train itself, will make itself independent and learn to take into its hands its own destiny, viz., social production itself. In this process the destruction of capitalism is achieved. The self-emancipation of the proletariat is the collapse of capitalism.

BobKKKindle$
7th November 2008, 12:49
The fall of capitalism is by no means inevitable. Although capitalism will continue to experience periodic crises of overproduction, these crises can only be turned into opportunities for revolutionary transformation if workers are able to overcome the damaging limitations of bourgeois ideology and recognize that all workers have a shared interest in overthrowing the capitalist system and replacing capitalism with a more rational and humane alternative which involves workers consciously controlling production, instead of being alienated from the products of their labour. In the absence of this crucial subjective factor (which can best be provided by means of a revolutionary party, consisting of the most militant and class conscious section of the proletariat) the bourgeoisie may be able to take advantage of crises to turn workers against each other and ultimately to smash workers organizations, as occurred in Germany and other countries which fell under the control of brutal fascist dictatorships. Rosa Luxemburg grasped this reality when she described the choice facing humanity as one between socialism and barbarism - the latter representing fascism, imperialist wars, and all the other problems which arise from the inability of capitalism to resolve its crises by peaceful means.

Bilan
7th November 2008, 13:42
Pannekoek beat you too it :P