The American Elections

[Coffee Mug]

Tomorrow the USA hold elections for president among other things. In my opinion boycotting the elections by not voting is simply an attest of apathy rather than a strong political statement.

Revolutionary Left or simply American Democratic Party liberal, our support needs to reflect our views or the closest to it, and Barack Obama's campaign is clearly the most accurate choice for the Revolutionary Left.

Violently overthrowing the government is completely impossible at this time simply by the numbers of ideological enemies. The hate-drenched community of Storm Front even outnumbers the members of this forum.

Action needs to be taken and voting for Barack Obama is the clearest thing we can do at this time.

[zimmerwald1915]

Obamabots are not appreciated. Have a nice life.

[GPDP]

And who the fuck says we need to go vote for Obama?

If you're of the mind that not voting is an ineffective tactic, fine, whatever. But don't you tell us to go support that imperialist piece of shit, just because McCain is an even bigger lump of shit.

If I absolutely had to vote, I would much sooner vote for a third party candidate, or better yet, write in a big-ass :blackA:!

[RHIZOMES]

Tomorrow the USA hold elections for president among other things. In my opinion boycotting the elections by not voting is simply an attest of apathy rather than a strong political statement.

Revolutionary Left or simply American Democratic Party liberal, our support needs to reflect our views or the closest to it, and Barack Obama's campaign is clearly the most accurate choice for the Revolutionary Left.

Violently overthrowing the government is completely impossible at this time simply by the numbers of ideological enemies. The hate-drenched community of Storm Front even outnumbers the members of this forum.

Action needs to be taken and voting for Barack Obama is the clearest thing we can do at this time.

He'll win anyway, so I can't see how a few reformists-masquerading-as-revolutionaries voting is going to change much. I have this thing called *principles*. I will not waste my vote on any capitalist party or politician.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I could possibly see someone voting for Obama to get the trade union laws hanging up in Congress passed, but I think calling him the most accurate choice for socialists is stretching it.

[JimmyJazz]

Revolutionary Left or simply American Democratic Party liberal, our support needs to reflect our views or the closest to it, and Barack Obama's campaign is clearly the most accurate choice for the Revolutionary Left.

Clearly. :lol:


Violently overthrowing the government is completely impossible at this time simply by the numbers of ideological enemies. The hate-drenched community of Storm Front even outnumbers the members of this forum.


To the question, what do revolutionaries do in non-revolutionary times, Lenin's answer was to build the party, to build the organization that can transform the revolutionary opportunity into a revolutionary victory. Build now, because if you wait, it will be too late. From Lenin's point of view, the entire reason for the party from the very beginning was preparation for the revolutionary opportunity.

Preparation means many things. It means being involved in the most critical struggles of the day, at the points of greatest conflict between the classes. It means fighting to win the movements that spontaneously respond to smaller crises in capitalist society to a truly progressive and revolutionary outlook. It means reading and studying, absorbing the lessons of revolutionary struggle around the world—from the experience of Asian, African, Middle Eastern and Latin American revolutionaries, along with Marx, Engels, Lenin and the other theoretical and practical leaders of the working class and oppressed.

Preparation means organizing the party for the multiplicity of challenges that it will face. It means a commitment to recruiting new cadre from among the many new, and not so new activists, and particularly among the most exploited and oppressed workers.http://socialismandliberation.org/mag/index.php?aid=40

[zimmerwald1915]

If I absolutely had to vote, I would much sooner vote for a third party candidate, or better yet, write in a big-ass :blackA:!
One reason to hate touch-screen voting machines is that you can't do this anymore :(

[BurnTheOliveTree]

http://www.truthout.org/110308A

It's not even a bourgeoisie democracy, it's an absolute house of cards.

-Alex

[fabiansocialist]

Revolutionary Left or simply American Democratic Party liberal, our support needs to reflect our views or the closest to it, and Barack Obama's campaign is clearly the most accurate choice for the Revolutionary Left.

You are kidding, surely ...?


Violently overthrowing the government is completely impossible at this time simply by the numbers of ideological enemies. The hate-drenched community of Storm Front even outnumbers the members of this forum.

Out of idle curiosity, I just went and took a look at this Stormfront site. While I would agree that they're a bunch of racist knuckleheads, it seems they are just as sick of the present system as people here.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Yes, but they have false consciousness.

The "reserve army" of labor, that can enter production during periods in which capital wants to expand, only to be discarded afterward, is often claimed to be created by 'colored' immigrants in Europe, Australia, and the United States.

It's crucial to recognize that, simply because, we stress the international commonality of all wage-laborers.

[fabiansocialist]

Yes, but they have false consciousness.

The "reserve army" of labor, that can enter production during periods in which capital wants to expand, only to be discarded afterward, is often claimed to be created by 'colored' immigrants in Europe, Australia, and the United States.


Very true. And -- I'm guilty of going off-topic -- these monkeys seem to ascribe magical powers to Jewish people. It is said that conspiracy theories are the ideology of the stupid -- it certainly applies to these SF knuckleheads.

[Oneironaut]

I'm voting on a local renewable energy initiative but beyond that, I'll leave the ballot blank. I have been told to exercise my "duty" to vote so many fucking times in the past week that I just walk away instead of saying my usual, "I will never vote for any capitalist pig- be it a Democran or Republicrat."

[Forward Union]

If I lived in the US I'd vote Repbulican.

Why?

Tactical voting to stop the Democrats from getting in, Democrats are a party of the Rich, all rich people, who are just as bloodthirsty as anyone else. Remember Kosovo? Democrats sending troops to Eastern Europe? Bombing kids? tisk tisk. Oh and let's not forget which party opposed ending slavery.

Plus Traditional Republicanism (as opposed to Neo Conservatism) recognises the very real tension between the people and the state. The right to bare arms and overthrow the government and all that.

Sure, Republicans aren't the revovlution but they're the best things we can do at the moment. Right?

[Labor Shall Rule]

^
I
I
I

Lol

Obama's 'left' phraseology convinces too many activists to surrender their class politics for Democrat reconciliationism.

[fabiansocialist]

Obama's 'left' phraseology convinces too many activists to surrender their class politics for Democrat reconciliationism.

Now is the time for reconciliation and bipartisanship.

[Jazzratt]

Now is the time for reconciliation and bipartisanship.

No it isn't. It's never the time for reconcillitation with our class enemies, it's never time to jettison our principals and give up the fight. It's not the time now and it wasn't the time back in the days of the fabian society.

[fabiansocialist]

No it isn't. It's never the time for reconcillitation with our class enemies, it's never time to jettison our principals and give up the fight. It's not the time now and it wasn't the time back in the days of the fabian society.

I'm joking, dammit. Do I have to spell my sarcasm out in block letters?

[Jazzratt]

I'm joking, dammit. Do I have to spell my sarcasm out in block letters?

Well, given that you seem to have named yourself after a reformist group and the fact I've not really seen many of your other posts it's a fairly easy mistake to make.

[fabiansocialist]

Well, given that you seem to have named yourself after a reformist group and the fact I've not really seen many of your other posts it's a fairly easy mistake to make.

For the record: given a choice today, I'd choose a less innocuous name. Reform doesn't work, can't work. Only bloody revolution. And then line up the b**tards like the Romanovs and ... well, you get the gist.

[Elway]

McCain or Obama . . . Which capitalist flunky shall I support?

In truth, I'm voting for Obama. But whatever; I'm not fooling myself. What's the "advantage" for voting against McCain? I 110% HATE the religious right. But get real: Obama ain't nothin'. In fact, he's gonna be shocked when he sees millions march in the streets of D.C. in a few years 'cause they don't have housing, medical coverage and retirement, and will be surprised that speeches won't feed their bellies, or make homes appear over their heads by magic.

[Martin Blank]

In fact, he's gonna be shocked when he sees millions march in the streets of D.C. in a few years 'cause they don't have housing, medical coverage and retirement, and will be surprised that speeches won't feed their bellies, or make homes appear over their heads by magic.

In fact, it will be the opposite. He won't be "shocked". As a former community organizer, he knows what's coming and, more importantly, he knows how to properly co-opt it. As long as the liberals and reformists are going to be left in charge of such movements, an Obama regime ("Bush's Third Term") will be successful at getting them to limit themselves to little more than impotent appeals ... while policing "their" movements for "troublemakers" like us.

[BIG BROTHER]

Well I can't vote really, but I would encourage people here from California to vote if not for any candidate, against the propositions 8,6, and 4.

And as candidates go, I say the best strategy is to vote for third party candidates, not because they have any real chance at wining, but I see it as the easiest way to get any concession from the Democrats if they see they're loosing their base. Not that we only want concessions, but to overthrow them.(but of course if you don't vote you won't be overthrowing them anytime sooner so yea)

And if you are an anarquist I say just go vote and write in something like fuck the state, or fuck capitalism or something like that.

[Wanted Man]

Some people from my class are actually going to stay up all night for the results (time difference, you know). A study from a national newspaper showed that 92 percent of Dutch people favor Obama, but barely anyone actually knows what he stands for. 62 percent of the Dutch Obama supporters think that he supports gay marriage. 75 percent of them are under the illusion that he wants to pull troops out of Afghanistan. 78 percent think he is against the death penalty.

According to that same newspaper, even Dutch Obama campaign volunteers in the US don't know what their own man stands for. A member of the gay-friendly liberal party D66, on Obama's position: "He's against??? Well, okay, he's against gay marriage, but not against gays!" Three Obama campaigners of the Young Socialists, the youth movement of the Dutch Labour Party, are also surprised by this fact. They are not troubled by Obama's much more right-wing positions at all. "This election is not about ideals, but about getting votes." "We call ourselves Young Social Democrats here. Socialists are something dirty here. People run away from it sometimes, it scares them, it's hot stuff."

The Dutch government parties PvdA (Labour), CDA (Christian-Democrats) and CU (smaller Christian party) all support Obama. The same goes for the opposition parties SP (socialists), GroenLinks (greens), D66 (left-liberals) and TON (far-right :confused:). Only the VVD (right-liberals/conservatives), SGP (extreme christian party) and PVV (far-right) support McCain. The Party for Animals (don't laugh) supports Nader.

By the way, you can see the international Obama madness here: http://www.economist.com/vote2008/?mode=leadershipboard

Watch brainless Dutch celebs pick Obama here (with one exception): http://www.depers.nl/video/299867/BNers-kiezen-Obama.html

[Wanted Man]

Also, FOX News are really on form today: http://wonkette.com/404120/a-childrens-treasury-of-todays-hilarious-fox-news-clips#more-404120

The "Black Panthers intimidating Republicans" thing is hilarious.

[Peaceful Revolutionary]

Yeah. If anything, I'm going to have to say that for this election, third-party is probably the best way to go. And if not that, if I had to choose between the two candidates, I'd probably have to go with Barack, simply because of the fact that I'm really praying that McCain doesn't win.

[Elway]

62 percent of the Dutch Obama supporters think that he supports gay marriage.

With the small exception of military weddings and the like, the U.S. President has virtually no power over whether homosexual marriage would ever be legal in the states of the United States.