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Revy
2nd November 2008, 11:58
There are some anti-Cuba sources which like to paint Cuba both past and present as a homophobic hell....with "perspectives" and claims packaged to look authentic as if they portrayed the real history of Cuba. A common theme is the grand conspiracy - how Cuba allegedly persecutes homosexuals in secret, while maintaining the appearance of tolerance.

Little conclusive evidence is given for these 'facts', just like the claims that Cuba is 'racist' in its policy toward Afro-Cubans. There are two alleged anti-gay programs, UMAP and "Operation P". UMAP at least is based around historical military labor collectives (not "camps") in which some homosexuals may have been interned on the basis of their sexuality. The Cuban government has admitted that these policies were a mistake. There is no evidence that any homosexuals were brutally treated, or as some like to claim, killed. This program lasted for all of 2 years, while Che was away outside of Cuba organizing guerrilla activity (in spite of this, there are many who seek to connect Che to the program). The other, Operation P, is a supposed Nazi-esque concentration camp type of deal, with a P emblazoned on every camp member, the P is said to stand for "Pimps, Prostitutes, and Pederasts". This seems largely mythical and a figment of anti-Cuban sources.

The history however shows that Cuba made homosexual civil rights gains before the US ever even got there. Homosexuality was legalized in 1979, in a time when laws against homosexuality were still being enforced in the United States. In fact, prior to 1970, only one state (Illinois) had homosexuality legal. These laws often had severe penalties. Violence against gays by forces of the state was common in the US, see the police raid against the Stonewall Inn, which was just one of many homosexual bars and meeting places stormed and brutally attacked by police all over America. In Nixon's transcripts, he declared that fags destroy strong nations, and that is why he thought communists were pushing the acceptance of homosexuality. In 1963, a document about Communist Goals for America listed acceptance of homosexuality as one of the goals in which communists believed. In fact, it was not until 2003, that homosexuality was effectively legalized across the USA. That was when Texas attempted to enforce a law against gay sex and the case went to the Supreme Court. Earlier, a decision in 1983 by the US Supreme Court affirmed Georgia's right to arrest homosexuals for the 'crime' of homosexual sex.

Cuba made progress especially in the 90's, when the gay-themed film Strawberry and Chocolate was released in Cuba to critical acclaim within the country. One self-identified, masculine heterosexual male said "Fantastic! I would love to have a friend like that." This is the Cuba in which these bourgeois sources claim that taught children to view homosexuals as un-communist deviants. In this light, those claims look as suspect as ever.

Opponents of Cuba regularly claim that although homosexuality is legal, gay people suffer harassment from police for open displays of homosexual behavior. But homosexuals have been included in May Day marches, and the gay scene has not been oppressed. In fact, gays have gone to Cuba and commented on the gay scene without a mention of harsh and brutal state repression. Mariela Castro, Raul Castro's daughter and Fidel Castro's niece, is able to organize for gay liberation without rebuke or repression.

Carlos Sanchez, the male representative of the International Gay and Lesbian Association for the Latin American and Caribbean Region, visited Cuba in 2004 to participate in the Third Hemispheric Meeting Against the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas). While there, he also made some enquiries into the status of lesbians and gays in the country. In particular, he asked the Cuban government why they had abstained from the vote on the "Brazilian resolution", a 2003 proposal to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights which would symbolically recognise the "occurrence of violations of human rights in the world against persons on the grounds of their sexual orientation." The government justified their abstention by arguing that the resolution could be used to attack and isolate "Arab countries", consistent with US aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq.
Sanchez also wanted to ascertain the possibility of creating a lesbian and gay organization in Cuba. They responded that the formation of an LGBT association would "distract attention" from national security.
Sanchez also met with some local lesbians and gays while there, and he reported the following observations:


There are no legal sanctions against LGBT people.
People are afraid of meeting and organizing themselves. It is mainly based on their experience in previous years, but one can assume that this feeling will disappear in the future if lesbians and gays start to work and keep working and eventually get support from the government. (The National Center for Sexual Education is offering this support).
"Transformismo" (drag performance) is well accepted by the majority of the Cuban population
There is indeed a change in the way people view homosexuality, but this does not mean the end of discrimination and homophobia. The population is just more tolerant with lesbians and homosexuals.
Lesbians and gays do not consider fighting for the right to marriage, because that institution in Cuba does not have the same value that it has in other countries. Unmarried and married people enjoy equal rights.


Therefore, I think it is probably more accurate to infer that homosexuals have made more advances in the Cuban island than in the United States of America. For it was just recently that the Pentagon made statements against homosexuality, as did General Petraeus. There are those who knew of the "fag bomb" which was a bomb directed at the people of Afghanistan which had the words "High jack this fags" (spelled in that manner).

Cuba is certainly not free from homophobia, in any sector of society. There are still those who have a negative opinion of homosexuality, and those that even hate them. Gay people might be hesitant to come out and be free with their sexuality, but this is no different in the U.S. It is a cultural problem, not a problem of government policy. I would also imagine that there might still be white Cubans with racially prejudiced views. Things are changing, clearly, faster than they are in the United States.

There are those who would like to somehow claim that gay people had it better before the Cuban Revolution. This is the most insidious lie of all. Homosexuals were not treated any better. Laws against homosexuality existed and they likely were cruel in action. Homosexuals could only find sexual expression in furtive prostitution, which hardly means tolerance. Again, the myth of a homophobic Cuba plays into those bourgeois gusanos who hate Cuba yet accept more liberal social views. As for the extreme right-wing Cubans, they may not push the issue at all. They may in fact see Cuba as promoting homosexuality.

chimx
3rd November 2008, 17:58
I think it is hard to deny that there was a strong anti-gay culture prior to the 1970s in Cuba. But you are right that that culture shouldn't be used as evidence for perceptions that exist today. Cuba has made a lot of cultural progress in terms of tolerance over the past couple of decades. Wikipedia's entry is actually fairly balanced: link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba). It illustrates progress made, and progress that has yet to be made.

Leo
3rd November 2008, 19:59
Homosexuality was legalized in 1979

That is to say that it was illegal to be a homosexual in a supposedly "socialist" state for twenty years.

Yeah, that's something to brag about :rolleyes:

JorgeLobo
4th November 2008, 01:29
stancel, the originator of this string, offered nothing that would validate any of his claims re. treatment of gays in Cuba. Take it for what it's worth - not much.

Herman
4th November 2008, 20:45
That is to say that it was illegal to be a homosexual in a supposedly "socialist" state for twenty years.

Yeah, that's something to brag about

Apart from the fact the most of the world also had "illegalized" homosexuality at the time? And the fact that most revolutionary leftists saw homosexuality as something wrong and abnormal?

For a country which had (and still has) a "Macho" culture, they've done a lot of progress.

Leo
5th November 2008, 10:02
Apart from the fact the most of the world also had "illegalized" homosexuality at the time?

That's a superb excuse, isn't it? "But rest of the capitalist world was like that also!"... Yeah, that's sort of the point...


And the fact that most revolutionary leftists saw homosexuality as something wrong and abnormal?

I don't think stalinists were revolutionaries. Their position on homosexuality was merely a reflection of this. The stalinists in the third world still have very socially conservative approach which would shock their western counterparts who have their political roots in liberalism.

Led Zeppelin
5th November 2008, 10:15
Apart from the fact the most of the world also had "illegalized" homosexuality at the time?

The USSR decriminalized homosexuality shortly after the revolution.

That was later reverted of course.

Patchd
5th November 2008, 10:21
Apart from the fact the most of the world also had "illegalized" homosexuality at the time? And the fact that most revolutionary leftists saw homosexuality as something wrong and abnormal?

For a country which had (and still has) a "Macho" culture, they've done a lot of progress.
A 1917 Russia was very homophobic too, especially with the influence of the Russian Orthodox church...yet, it was legalised very shortly after the revolution.

A whole 62 years before Cuba's homophobic laws were revoked.

Herman
5th November 2008, 10:40
That's a superb excuse, isn't it? "But rest of the capitalist world was like that also!"... Yeah, that's sort of the point...

The point is that considering the circumstances, Cuba experimenting for the first time progressive changes, it wasn't bound to be a perfect socialist utopia in its early years. The important thing is that it changed its position and now is very supportive of gay rights.


I don't think stalinists were revolutionaries. Their position on homosexuality was merely a reflection of this. The stalinists in the third world still have very socially conservative approach which would shock their western counterparts who have their political roots in liberalism.

I'm not talking about "stalinists" only. I'm talking about the entire revolutionary left: trotskyists, left-communists, maoists, eclectic socialists, anarcho-communists, etc.

ellipsis
7th November 2008, 11:54
I had some friend studying in Cuba and talked about how they had to run around town calling people in order to find an underground gay party. Apparently they have to keep that kind of stuff quiet still.

ellipsis
7th November 2008, 11:55
also stancel, great post, a really enjoyable read:)

duffers
7th November 2008, 12:17
Why the past tense? Also, whilst the state has decriminalised homosexuality, parties and clubs of a gay nature are often raided, with their patrons imprisoned for the night, and roughed up.

Still, not as bad as the camps gays were placed in, in the 60's and 70's, only halting because of international pressure, not moral conscience. We won't even mention placing AIDS suffering gays in quarantine, ending that because of pressure again, but also cost.

Nothing infuriates me more than so called far leftists seeing Cuba as a symbol of what we should achieve. The problem with Marxism for many is that when practiced, it has strayed so far from the teaching of Engels and Marx. If you can't get the mainstay of egalitarianism down, how the fuck can you move forward? What's next, Lenin did alright, despite betraying what the soviet in Soviet Union stood for? Stalin, despite killing more people than Hitler, wasn't so bad in retrospect? Shame on you.