Huge success of marxist in the pcf

[bolchevique]

The document present for our comrades La Rispote has obtained more than 15% , this is a great step forward for the forces of real leninism, that is trosky ideas, afte our succesful work in Refundacion Comunista in Italy,that is a real answer about the correct mehtods and ideas of International Marxist Tendency,futher information on www.marxist.com (http://www.marxist.com)

[Revy]

Well, I'm sure I've said before, but while there may be groups in these international organizations that are fine and well, I often find their US sections to be terrible.

For example, the Workers' International League (IMT) has endorsed Cynthia McKinney. Socialist Alternative (CWI) has endorsed Nader. So I prefer to judge these international organizations on a party by party basis. I'm not a Trotskyist, but I'm sure Trotsky would not have approved of all these endorsements of capitalist politicians that are 'progressive'. That's the term they use when supporting these people: 'progressive'. Not socialist, because that is too much. Perhaps their egoism is so great they can not bring themselves to endorse another socialist party.

[bolchevique]

I don't have enough information about the left in The USA,but our comrades works for the creation of a Labour party, and this must be necessarily created out of the union and probably , I suppose that Cindy has got the support of some unions , although I really don't know , The American comrades would bet the best to answer this question

[Random Precision]

I don't have enough information about the left in The USA,but our comrades works for the creation of a Labour party, and this must be necessarily created out of the union and probably

Building a "labor party in the US" is an utterly pointless task. The IMT, of course, having abandoned Leninism, thinks that a social-democratic party is necessary for a revolution. :rolleyes:


, I suppose that Cindy has got the support of some unions , although I really don't know , The American comrades would bet the best to answer this question

The large labor unions in the US are backing Obama actually.

[bolchevique]

the creation of a Labour party by the American working classwould be undoubtless a great step forward and history shows us that the working class have created their parties from the unions and with the correct ideas and method, the ideas of marxism could become the majority and transform this labour party in a revolutionary party

[Random Precision]

the creation of a Labour party by the American working classwould be undoubtless a great step forward and history shows us that the working class have created their parties from the unions and with the correct ideas and method, the ideas of marxism could become the majority and transform this labour party in a revolutionary party

It maybe would be a step forward. The question is, forward in what direction? And can we get where we're going without going in that direction?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"In no sense is a Labor Party that is anything less than the revolutionary party a necessary stage in the development of the working class in countries where there are no workers' parties." - Trotsky

[Small Geezer]

oooooh shame! Bummed out hard!

[Yehuda Stern]

Not only is it correct that a reformist party is not necessary for the development of working class consciousness, it actually impedes that development when it is not part of some mass struggle. To raise this slogan abstractly, when there's no major political struggle of the workers, like back when Trotsky initially suggested the slogan of a Labor Party for the US, is to essentially support reformism.

As for Marxists transforming reformist parties, this is just a centrist myth and fantasy and has actually never happened as far as I know. The only time when it could be said that it has happened is when the SFIO was transformed into the PCF, but then that was only very shortly after the betrayal of the Second International and soon after the Bolshevik Revolution. It's a completely different historical situation.

I'll end with another Trotsky quote:

"a proletarian revolutionist, cannot present himself before the working class with two banners. He cannot say at a workers meeting: I have tickets for a first class party and other tickets cheaper for the stupid ones. If I am a Communist I must fight for the Communist Party."

[bolchevique]

the question is not to transform the reformist parties , the question is what is the best way to create a revolutionary party by isolating from the majority of the workers who vote for these parties and considered their parties or by fighting a hard struggle against the burocracy of these reformist parties and spread the ideas of marxism among the masses, regarding quotation and dont' repeat them in isolation ,but one of thje most serious mistakes made by the members of the poum was not working inside the psoe and pce in the 30, and was critized energically by trosky, and most of the comunist parties were created out of the socialist, and the trade union movement , so this is the reason we should be inside the working parties to recruit member for the ideas of marxism and I can tell you is working , and the numerous miniparties of all kinds go nowhere, and and it is a waste of revolutionary energy,like the long debate you have about swp, this is a real waste of time, swp don't play any real role among the british working class,but everybody is free to do whatever they like with their free time. And we are not going to create the working class party of USA, only millions of American worker would do that and we should be there to explain the ideas of marxism and to make them the majority

[Yehuda Stern]

But then, that's exactly what you're not aiming to do. You're not trying to break away some revolutionary majority from the reformist parties (though that tactic is mostly useless too), you're actually trying to build and transform these parties into revolutionary ones. Just look at what you're doing in France and in Italy - when people break away from the old reformist parties, you actually encourage them to come back and join them!

[Charles Xavier]

they are eurocommunists, reformers.

[Led Zeppelin]

"In no sense is a Labor Party that is anything less than the revolutionary party a necessary stage in the development of the working class in countries where there are no workers' parties." - Trotsky

That's not a Trotsky quote.

It's taken from the site of the "fifth international".