Pop Music a Tool of the Enemies of the U.S.? - In some cases

[Ghost Writer]

I know that many people here love popular music. I thought I would set up a whole post devoted to uncovering the hidden messages, and the overall hatred that many in the music industry, especially the rap segment, have for our democracy.

Pop culture has become a powerful influence on the political culture in our society. Hence, it deserves some discussion from a political viewpoint. Is the music industry soley a capitalist venture, or are there some who understand the significance that exposure to the glim glam popularized ignorance that abounds within the music industry can have on a nations youth? Has there been a serious attempt to breach the structure of our societal foundation through the use of the hive-mind mentality that surrounds this relatively new phenomenon?

Below I will start the discussion with a post I wrote when I was discussing the socialist ideology that certain segments of Mid-Eastern terrorists condone. The relationship between people like Qudafi and the Nation of Islam is striking. How have the political views of black leaders been mimicked through the use of a very powerful medium, namely music labels? Is the suppossed degeneration of our inner city youth really an accident, or will the worlds next terrorist training camps exist in areas like Compton and Baltimore, under the guise of gang warfare? Will the nations left use class warfare to further their violent cause, and will this impending violence utilize the disenfranchised youth of the inner city? These are all decent questions, even though some of them extend beyond what is logically realistic. The following provides some indication that this theory is not as far fetched as they may seem on the surface.

"I am sure if you like Marx, you will love the GREEN BOOK by Mu`ammar al-Qadhafi. (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8744/readgb.htm)

Yes, you are in good company. Many of the world's great terrorists have, in fact, been devout Marxists. Hell, Louis Farakan's relationship with Qadhafi has helped to export his inspirational thinking to the inner city youth of the United States. Those who may lack the ability to read adequately can now become well versed in the teachings of Qadhafi (http://www.2pac-outlawz.com/kadafi.html), as much as they are educated in the wisdom of Marx. (http://www.ratm.com/) Yeah, pop music is all just harmless fun, not in any way meant to undercut the underlying principles of the United States."

(Edited by Ghost Writer at 8:27 pm on May 13, 2003)

[The Sniper]

lol what aload of bullshit, music is mearly a medium that some artists use to express there views. Just coz some of their views tend to be anti-american doesnt mean there arnt alot of pro american ones. Its liek saying books are evil because some ppl write terrorist manuals. Fucking retard.

[Ghost Writer]

Death Row records, according to their own web-site, has sold 50 million records, and has yielded 750 million dollars in sales. They own about 20% of the market share, with respect to rap music. This organizations monetary value, their ties to organized crime, and their involvement in police corruption attests to the fact that this sort of company goes well beyond the scope of mere artists trying to get there message out. They have been involved with racketeering, murder, and intimidation. DeathRow Records can be compared to the Hell's Angels. We know that they have paid off police, and it seems reasonable to suspect that such a crime syndicate, with this kind of money has the clout necessary to get involved politically.

I never stated that music was evil. What I did suggest is that we take a harder look at the significance of this medium, and the effect this message could have on our society. Seeing the correlation between violence and rap music, after its inception in the 1980's, leads rational people to ask relevant questions. No one is advocating censorship. All I am suggesting is that we take a look at the message, where it spawns from, and what effect it has on our nation's future political culture. Surely, one would not think it is stupid to suggest such critical review.

[Ghost Writer]

Below is an excerpt from Body Count's controversial Cop Killer song that caused a stir up on Capitol Hill during the early 1990's. Do you think these lyrics were meant to instill a general attitude that undermines the authority of the police?

"COP KILLER! YEAH!

I got my black shirt on.
I got my black gloves on.
I got my ski mask on.
This shit's been too long.
I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off.
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off.

I'm a COP KILLER, better you than me.
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grieving,
(FUCK 'EM!)
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even, ha ha.

I got my brain on hype.
Tonight'll be your night.
I got this long-assed knife.
and your neck looks just right.
My adrenaline's pumpin'.
I got my stereo bumpin'.
I'm 'bout to kill me somethin'.
A pig stopped me for nuthin'!

COP KILLER, better you than me.
COP KILLER, fuck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your momma's grieving,
(FUCK HER!)
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even, yeah!

DIE, DIE, DIE PIG, DIE!"

[CubanFox]

Though you may not like what they say, respect people's freedom of speech.

[Ghost Writer]

How haven't I respected the freedom of speech of others, Cubanfox? People who espouse their views and opinions subject their viewpoint to the scrutiny of others. In fact, this is the hallmark of our belief in such a system. If people are allowed to say anything they wish, except when it comes to offering criticism of the views of others, how is that freedom of speech? I would argue that the sole purpose for our 1st Amendment was to make sure that absurdities could be sujected to ridicule, and subsequently dismissed as illogical, or just plain stupid. I have acted in accordance to this aspect of the 1st amendment, and by labeling me as an enemy of this belief, you demonstrate the exact same behavior as myself. You are ridiculing me for my beliefs, just as I am ridiculing those who produce the garbage known as rap. Therefore, I fail to see your point.

[commie kg]

You're right GW, music is a powerful medium, but that doesn't mean that all music that is even somewhat leftist is a tool of "anti-Americans".
There are quite a few right wing bands, too.
Alot of country music, and theres all that skinhead crap, bands like "Angry Aryans" and such.

Although I don't like rap, alot of the views expressed in it are a result of years of poor treatment by the white upper and middle classes. I don't condone kids in the ghetto actually going out and killing cops, but I can see why they would want to.

[Anonymous]

"In highly publicized work, researchers at the University of California at Irvine (UCI) demonstrated that listening to Mozart's Sonata for Two Pianos (K.448) enhanced visual spatial learning skills. Frances H. Rauscher, PhD and her colleagues conducted a study with 36 undergraduates from the department of psychology who scored 8 to 9 points higher on the spatial IQ test (part of the Stanford-Binet Intelligence scale) after listening to 10 minutes of Mozart. Gordon Shaw, one of the researchers, suggested Mozart's music may be able to warm up the brain, "We suspect that complex music facilitates certain complex neuronal patterns involved in high brain activities like math and chess. By contrast, simple and repetitive music could have the opposite effect." In a follow up study the researchers tested spatial skill by projecting 16 abstract figures similar to folded pieces of paper on an overhead screen for one minute each. The test looked at ability of participants to tell how the items would look unfolded. Over a 5-day period, one group listened to Mozart's Sonata for Two Pianos, another to silence, and a third to mixed sounds, including music by Philip Glass, an audiotaped story, and a dance piece. The researchers reported that all three groups improved their scores from day one to day two, but the group that listened to Mozart improved their pattern recognition scores 62% compared to 14% for the silence group and 11% for the mixed group. On subsequent days the Mozart group achieved yet higher scores but the other groups did not show continued improvement. The researchers proposed that Mozart's music strengthened the creative right-brain processing center associated with spatial reasoning. "Listening to music," they concluded, "acts as an exercise for facilitating symmetry operations associated with higher brain function. Don Campbell gives a nice summary of this work in The Mozart Effect, along with many other examples of music enhancing learning and healing the body. Campbell writes that in his experience Mozart's violin concertos, especially numbers 3 and 4 produce even stronger positive effects on learning."



"Certain music can also be very destructive. It is no coincidence that the majority of teenagers who end up being sent to residential treatment facilities or group homes listen to more heavy metal music than other teens. Music that is filled with lyrics of hate and despair encourage those same mind states in developing teens. What your children listen to may hurt them. Teach them to love classical music when they are young. "

"Music is influential from a very early age. Dr. Thomas Verny in his book The Secret Life of the Unborn Child cites scientific experiments showing that fetuses preferred Mozart and Vivaldi to other composers in early as well as later stages of pregnancy. He reported that fetal heart rates steadied and kicking lessened, while other music, especially rock, "drove most fetuses to distraction," and they "kicked violently" when it was played to their mothers. "

"Classical music and most beautiful soothing, stimulating music can make a positive difference in your brain. "


More (http://www.brainplace.com/bp/music/default.asp)

[T Blair]

Pop Music is not a medium for artists to express themselves, it is a medium much the same as classical Hollywood Cinema – a medium who’s sole motivation is PROFIT; it is “solely a capitalist venture…” despite some pseudo symptomatic undertones (Cop Killer – The black man’s been the victim of police brutality, now it’s time to strike back, yo!…) As a primary agent of socialization Pop Music will of course have an influence on the youth, but the benefits almost always outweigh the coasts. Pop Music is a business; it’s not interested in selling a message, or increasing the mental capacity of the youth, it’s interested in selling records. While I appreciate this thread and its intentions, I question the legitimacy of your argument. You’re referencing tracks from the early 90’s to support your hypothesis of a NEW generation of black Terrorists. If this was a highscool project from 7 years ago, I can try my best to sympathize. If anything, the violent political content found in POPULAR rap lyrics is on a steady decline...not to imply that it is by any means obsolete. Furthermore, if this thread serves as an implict petition to BAN rap, then let me be the first to sign it!

TBLAIR.





(Edited by T Blair at 12:35 am on May 14, 2003)

[hazard]

its typical capitalist hypocrisy

if ANTI-CAPITALIST music makes money, then it is marketed. go figure

[Hampton]

Let's see a song about killing cops or an unarmed black man being shot 41 times. What's going to make me hate the police more?

(Edited by Hampton at 4:06 pm on May 14, 2003)

[hazard]

the idea sorta begs the question

if people want to hear anti-capitalist lyrics, doesn't that make them anti-capitalist? 9 out of 10 people you ask though will say they are not. to me its clear evidence of capitalist mind control. train people to say things like seals honking horns. but the capitalists cannot change the way people really feel. and how they really feel is displayed predominantly in their art, such as music and movies and books. all of the most popular of which are clearly anti-capitalist.

[RedCeltic]

Cop Killer isn't on the top ten pop charts is it? No it's not. Most songs that are popular (hence the term pop music) are about sex. Take the #1 song on Billboard today for example.


Get Busy, by: Sean Paul

Shake that thing Miss Kana Kana
Shake that thing Miss Annabella
Shake that thing yan Donna Donna
Jodi and Rebecca

Woman Get busy, Just shake that booty non-stop
When the beat drops
Just keep swinging it
Get jiggy
Get crunked up
Percolate anything you want to call it
Oscillate you hip and don't take pity
Me want fi see you get live 'pon the riddim when me ride
And me lyrics a provide electricity
Gal nobody can tell you nuttin'
Can you done know your destiny

Yo sexy ladies want par with us
In a the car with us
Them nah war with us
In a the club them want flex with us
To get next to us
Them cah vex with us
From the day me born jah ignite me flame gal a call me name and its me fame
Its all good girl turn me on
'Til a early morn'
Let's get it on
Let's get it on 'til a early morning
Girl it's all good just turn me on

Woman don't sweat it, don't get agitate just gwaan rotate
Can anything you want you know you must get it
From you name a mentuin
Don't ease the tension just run the program gals wan pet it
Just have a good time
Gal free up unu mind caw nobody can dis you man won't let it can
You a the number one gal
Wave you hand
Make them see you wedding band

[Chorus]
Yo sexy ladies want par with us
In a the car with us
Them nah war with us
In a the club them want flex with us
To get next to us
Them cah vex with us
From the day me born jah ignite me flame gal a call me name and its me fame
Its all good girl turn me on
'Til a early morn'
Let's get it on
Let's get it on 'til a early morning
Girl it's all good just turn me on

Woman Get busy , Just shake that booty non-stop
When the beat drops
Just keep swinging it
Get jiggy
Get crunked up
Percolate anything you want to call it
Oscillate you hip and don't take pity
Me want fi see you get live 'pon the riddim when me ride
And me lyrics a provide electricity
Gal nobody can tell you nuttin'
Can you done know your destiny

[Chorus]
Yo sexy ladies want par with us
In a the car with us
Them nah war with us
In a the club them want flex with us
To get next to us
Them cah vex with us
From the day me born jah ignite me flame gal a call me name and its me fame
It's all good girl turn me on
'til a early morn'
let's get it on
let's get it on 'til a early morning
girl…it's all good just turn me on

Yo, Shake that thing
Miss Kana Kana shake that thing
Yo, Annabella shake that thing
Miss Donna Donna
Yo Miss Jodi yu'r di one and Rebecca shake that thing

Yo shake that thing
Yo Joanna shake that thing
Yo Annabella shake that think
Miss Kana Kana

[Chorus]
Yo sexy ladies want par with us
In a the car with us
Them nah war with us
In a the club them want flex with us
To get next to us
Them cah vex with us
From the day me born jah ignite me flame
gal a call me name and its me fame
Its all good girl turn me on
'Til a early morn'
Let's get it on
Let's get it on 'til a early morning
Girl it's all good just turn me on
[x2]

Let's get it on 'til a early morning
Girl it's all good just turn me on

Is Sean Paul talking about getting busy and starting a revolution or getting busy as in having sex? hmmm?

And... #2 on the bilboard chart.. is 21 Questions by 50 Cent Featuring Nate Dogg From the album "Get Rich Or Die Tryin'" (a capitalist title if I've ever seen one)


[50 Cent talking]
New York City
You are now rockin'
With 50 cent
You gotta love it

[50 cent]
I just wanna chill and twist a la
Catch ? on my seven-forty five
You drive me crazy shorty I,
Need to see you and feel you next to me
I'll provide everything you need and I
Like your smile I don't want to see you cry
Got some questions i gotta ask and I
Hope you can come up with the answers baby

Chorus: [Nate Dogg]
Girl it's easy to love me now
Would you love me if i was down, and out
Would you still have love for me girl? (x2)

[50 Cent]
If I fell off tomorrow, would you still love me?
If I didn't smell so good, would you still hug me?
If I got locked up and sentenced to a quarter century,
Could I count on you to be there to support me mentally?
If I went back to a hoopty from a Benz,
Would you *poof* and disappear, like some of my friends?
If I was hit and i was hurt, would you be by my side?
If it was time to put in work, would you be down to ride?
I get out and peel a nigga cap, chill and drive
I'm asking questions to find out how you feel inside
If I ain't rapped cus I flipped burgers at Burger King,
Would you be ashamed to tell your friends you feelin' me?
And in bed, if I used my tongue, would you like that?
If I wrote you a love letter, would you write back?
Now we could have a little drink, you know a night cap
And we could go do what you like, I know you like that

[Nate Dogg]
Girl, its easy to love me now
Would you love me if i was down, and out
Would you still, have love for me girl (x2)

[50 Cent]
Now would you leave me if your father, found out I was thuggin'?
Do you believe me when I tell you, you the one I'm lovin'?
Are you mad cus I'm askin' you 21 questions?
Are you my soulmate, cus if so, girl you a blessin'
Do you trust me enough to tell me your dreams?
I'm starin' at you tryin' to figure how you got in them jeans
If I was down, would you say things to make me smile?
I'll treat you how you want to be treated, just teach me how
If I was with some other chick and someone happened to see
And when you asked me about it, I said it wasn't me
Would believe me, or up and leave me
How deep is our bond if that's all it takes for you to be gone
We only humans girl, we make mistakes
To make it up, I'll do whatever it takes
I love you like a fat kid love cake
You know my style, I'll say anything to make you smile

Chorus: [Nate Dogg]
Girl, it's easy to love me now
Would you love me if i was down, and out
Would you still, have love, for me girl (x2)

[Nate Dogg]
Could you love me in a Bentley?
Could you love me on a bus?
I'll ask 21 questions
And they all about us (x2)

[redstar2000]

Why the "Mozart" effect?

Why not the Bach effect, or the Handel effect, or the Corelli effect, or the Palestrina effect, or the Tellermann effect, or the Monteverdi effect, or...??? All of those guys, and many others, were far superior composers, so why Mozart?

Mozart wrote elevator music before elevators were invented.

:cool:

[T Blair]

The term “anti-capitalist” is being used out of context.
It is foolish to presuppose a song about “killing cops” is “anti-capitalist.”
Though, from a generic perspective, America represents the acme of a capitalist system, there is a clear distinction that is to be drawn between “anti-America” and “anti-capitalist” music.
That horrible and demoic band, The Hives, are from Socialist Sweden, and their horrid excuse for music is still clattered with the boring, bland and predictable "fuck this and fuck that..." type nonsense.
I think you're giving Artists too much politcal credibility; as indicated by the recent media frenzy over the War on Iraq – Pop artists have no idea what they’re fucking talking about.
They want to shoot cops because impressionable kids think it's cool, not because they're "anti-capitalist."

furthermore:
Any Pop Artist singing an anti-capitalist tune would share in the same shameless hypocrisy as the Label representing them.

[hazard]

die, die, die pig die IS about as anti-capitalist a statement I can think of

[T Blair]

"Fuck police brutality..."
is the explicit meaning of this song.
The same explicit meaning can be found in Spike Lee's
"Do the Right thing."
Spike Lee: The boy George spokesperson for "Nike."

This song and Spike Lee's film advocate equal civil rights and liberties for all, as opposed to socialism, which just plain suppresses them.

[hazard]

as the capitalist "watchdogs", being against the police is to be against capitalism. its not about the guarddogs of society, but about the society that needs and protects its guarddogs from crimnal prosecution.

[suffianr]

I'd sooner ban polka and country music. Goddamned Satan-worshippers. :cheesy:

[Ghost Writer]

It looks like Stanford University's Islam in Amerca course discusses this very topic. It appears that this question is relevant enough for them to devote a whole lecture to the impact that Islam has had on rap music, and how this shapes the religious and culture attitudes of black Americans.

source: Stanford University: Islam in America Religious Studies Course (http://www.stanford.edu/class/relstud199/)

I wonder how many rap artists support the idea of Jihad. From the lyrics that I have read it is evident that some rappers who have been influenced by the Nation of Islam subscribe to an anti-semetic, anti-white worldview. Clearly, some of them have a tendency to lean toward class warfare, and outright bigotry.

I wonder how Islamists view rap's attitude toward women? Is the derogatory message about "*****es", and "hoes" rooted in what they view as an Islamic tradition? Judging by what I have seen from Islamic theocracies, it's entirely possible. Women are treated as second class citizens by those who practice Islam, and this aspect of the religion could very well be related to the denegrating language that many rappers use.

I have been the victim of racism while trying to strike up conversation with inner city blacks. Some blacks have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to white America. In fact, talking with some of them it seems as if they truly believe that race war is an inevitablity. Like militia groups, they subscribe to a predetermined future, a future that will lead to a bloody fight between the "ruling class" and the "underpriviledged". Again, I must wonder what effect the music has played in an attitude that prevails in certain areas.

Of course, there are other socializing factors that may factor into the political culture of this rather large minority group. However, the message of the music is loud and clear. Islamists views of Jihad, Marxist views of classism, and militant racism are all prevalent in the lyrics, and these messages are often mimicked by those who purchase the labels. It all comes back to the age old question does art imitate life, or does life imitate art. My suggestion is that both life and art feed off of each other, and that the art is pure feedback, a symptom of the problem. However, this medium has an amplifying effect, and has a tendency to act as its own motive force, which further intensifies the problem.

[hazard]

whiner:

if you think that the music plays a part, why s it being marketed? what would the capialists have to gain through a race war or a revolution? nothing. they would have nothing to gain.

the music is, as I assert, marketed because that is what the people want to hear. if they wanted to hear mind control ala advertisements about how great capitalism is (even though it isn't) THAT would be marketed. its the only way to make sense out of this "phenomenon".

btw: you and your stanford frat boy buddy's are only doing a service to anti-establishment music by blaming violence and whatever upon it. keep up the good work!

[Ghost Writer]

I think T Blair answered the question that you raise when he said:

"Pop Music is a business; it’s not interested in selling a message, or increasing the mental capacity of the youth, it’s interested in selling records."

I think this is largely true, except maybe in Sug Knights case. He is more interested in his organized crime syndicate, and advancing his criminal ventures by creating minions underlings for him to manipulate. Even if they know they are doing damage, the record industry puts profits first, and produces what sells, among black America that happens to be rap music.

Not all rap music has the overtones that I spoke to earlier. Much of it is pure bling bling materialism, with the general formula that flashy jewelery, tight cars, austentacious housing, and multiple hookers are the American dream. I find that this type of rap mostly resonates among white suburban kids, and other people too stupid to concern themselves with music that has a strong political message. However, even that type of rap advances a harmful message, as it is shallow and primarily advances the cause of ignorance. Rap in this context glorifies stupidity, and sets those who subscribe to its hollow viewpoint back intellectually. This kind of rap puts forms before substance. I take substance over forms everytime. Therefore, I have a particularly strong hatred for the baffoonery it promotes.

[Moskitto]

Rap music is pretty shit, my mum occasionally covers music lessons at her school and she ends up trying to teach about rap, I'm more into some nice heavy rock myself.

[Invader Zim]

Pop music is a crime against all humanity not just capitalism. I mean its all just talentless crap created by the record industry. Just take the spice girls or blue. What a load of shit... Yes they have good singing voices, but its crap the music...

By comparison to other groups they suck, i would rather listen to some relativly tallentless rock bands than to that abomination that is pop.

[synthesis]

This kind of rap puts forms before substance. I take substance over forms everytime.

Seems we've got a fan of dialectics on our hands! :biggrin:

[Ghost Writer]

"Seems we've got a fan of dialectics on our hands"

How do you figure?

[CruelVerdad]

Music can have big influence in people specially youth...
Thats why musician should learn that they have power to change things, i think they should think more about their songs and send powerful messages to everyone that listen to them...

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Dude don't be so hypocrytical, most "artists who sing lyrics like "fuck the system", "kill the cops" etc. only do it for the money. Because it sells most nowadays to the fake punk bastards. The music industry just concentrates on what sells most, so it's partly the fault of your own system.

Second of all, music is also beeing used by the "other side". Remember the campaigns of Bush and Gore? It was full of artists trying to convice voters with pre fabricated songs.

Third there are loads and loads of singers, actors, artists who claim to be patriotic by singing a whole album full with things like, why the us is so "great".

There is also a lobby of politicians and "patriotic" americans, who watch the artists and put pressure on artists who dare to critizese (<-?) the system, bush, the war etc.

A fine example is Madonna with her new clip, inwhich she throws a handgrenade at Bush. The lobby got pissed, threatend....she was afraid to loose her support and money and had it cut out.

It's about the money.

[truthaddict11]

take the dixie chicks after that ones comment on bush and when there record sales "fell" there comes an apology, anyways artists dont see much from record sales it mainly goes to the record companies and thier distributers.