The political spectrum is a circle, and the left and right meet at the ends

[GPDP]

Anyone else encounter this little gem? Anyone here believe it?

I mostly get this from centrist liberals who think that communism and fascism are one and the same, and thus the best of all possible systems is a happy middle point (i.e. liberal capitalism, perhaps with some regulation and government intervention).

I must say, it pisses me off to no end.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It's called the Golden Mean Fallacy.

Not only that, but it's incredibly ignorant of the politics of both right and left, and is one-dimensional. Is an anarchist the same as a fascist? Is a Stalinist the same as a Randroid? According to these mindless middle idiots, yes.

[GPDP]

My thoughts exactly. Liberals, from my observation, are not known for their knowledge of political theory and practice outside of the extremely narrow spectrum presented to them daily in the media (liberal vs. conservative). Outside of that tiny band of the spectrum, they tend to be extremely ignorant, and the sad thing is, most of whom I have talked to seem to want to wallow in that ignorance, with no interest whatsoever in learning beyond what they know. Pretty ironic, as liberals often like to think of themselves as being "open-minded".

[al8]

I've encountered this too. Fucking fencesitters are fencesitting. :mad:

They think their bellybutton is the center of the world.

[JimmyJazz]

most of whom I have talked to seem to want to wallow in that ignorance, with no interest whatsoever in learning beyond what they know. Pretty ironic, as liberals often like to think of themselves as being "open-minded".

I think a lot of liberals have a gut feeling that our economic system is not very meritorious and perhaps even systematically exploitative, so they decide that a knowledge of economics or political economy is only useful for exploiting people, and they just avoid it altogether. They don't realize that a knowledge of how capitalism works can be used to change it.

In retrospect, this was roughly my view when I was a liberal, anyway.


Not only that, but it's incredibly ignorant of the politics of both right and left, and is one-dimensional. Is an anarchist the same as a fascist? Is a Stalinist the same as a Randroid? According to these mindless middle idiots, yes.

you could almost be paraphrasing the first few paragraphs of this. (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/morals/morals.htm)

[Dean]

Unfortunately, I've had this opinion the the past. It is an emotional expression of the fact that people of all political ideologies exploit - incidentally, I used the concept to explain how Communism was the centrist position and authoritarians on either trajectory away from that were comparable.

I always remember saying that for some reason - the specific location, people and time. It must be meaningful that I recall that, though I can't certainly say how.

[RGacky3]

Its rediculous, the sad thing is, thats what they teach kids in school, when it comes to social-"sciences" they always over simplify complex issues, and over complicate simple issues. There really is no "left" "right" distinction that is clear cut, the differences are what people view as valid social structures, based on their social ethics.

Maoism is called far left, but so is Anarchism. Libertarianism is called far right, as well as Fascism. Its all about your social philosophy, and that can't really be accurately measured on a graph or line.

[Pogue]

Its ridiculous, assuming that capitalism or centrism isn't radical. Why is capitalism not radical? It kills loads of people and is pretty strict. It annoys me. When they call us radicals. We're not radical. Capitalism is radical. Only a few hold the wealth? Yes, thats radical. So yeh, this concept of centrism is stupid because capitalism is not something you should comprimise with because its not an ideology, its just the way things have become and the violent defense of it by the priviliged.

[RGacky3]

I agree compleatly with H-L-V-S, to me the idea that about 5% of the people control 95% of everything its insane and VERY radical, and the concept that people can split up the earth and say this huge part is mine and you can't come unless I say so and I make the rules, thats rediculous and radical.

If you expalined Capitalism and the State to someone thats never heard of it before (like a guy that lived in a tribal enviroment), he would laugh.

[Demogorgon]

Is a Stalinist the same as a Randroid?
In many ways, yes.

However the idea of the political spectrum being circular is utter junk. Those who hold to the theory define the political spectrum very narrowly to try and get it to fit. But for their spectrum to work, the majority of people cannot be placed on it at all.

[Forward Union]

If by theory you mean "shit someone made up" then yea

[Killfacer]

I think what alot of people mean by it is that the extreme left wing communism which occurred in russia during the soviet union had similarities to national socialism in germany. Obviously as a direct analysis of political spectrum its far to simplistic and is just plain incorrect, but as a way of people with little prior knowledge of poltical ideoligies to compare the soviet union and nazi germany its not entirely inaccurate.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

There's "something" to the theoretical makeup.

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5218/anderch4.gif

IL being the stereotypical Pol Pot/Stalinist conception. IR being the stereotypical Franco/Hitler conception.
IIR being American liberals and British labor.
IIL being Cuba.
VIL being mutualism. VIR being "anarcho"-capitalism.
VR being Ron Paul to David Friedman. VL being Rosa Luxemburg to Peter Kroptkin.

I don't agree with this analysis, however.

[Bud Struggle]

Where's Ronal Reagan? Paint me in there. ;):lol:

[Dean]

Where's Ronal Reagan? Paint me in there. ;):lol:

Don't say that. You're much better than that.

[Bilan]

I think this originates from the similarities between Russia and the Germany in the 30's. It's not an actual understanding, more just propaganda, with a hint of ignorance, and a dash of stupidity.

[Reclaimed Dasein]

Tell them to shut the fuck up and take the political compass.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[redguard2009]

More technically a realistic political spectrum would take the form of a sphere with the north and south poles representing social conservatism and liberalism, respectively, and economic conservatism and liberalism occupying longitudes on opposite sides of said sphere. A person's politics would thus be mapped somewhere on the sphere.

The idea that fascism and communism are the same come from a variety of reasons. First, fascism arose as an opposing ideology to communism and socialism among facets of the moderate powers who reacted to the social and economic liberalism of communist theory with social and economic conservatism. They both are born out of economic hardship and various social stresses; both claim to be a solution to a society's problem. Communism is an emotional expression of good will, co-operation and as corny as it sounds, "love"; fascism is the opposite emotional expression of greed, a hunger for power, anger and hatred. Both are common human emotional reactions to emotional hardships.

A more direct comparison was born out of the Nazi Party's rise in Germany during the 20s when the Nazis (re: National German Worker's Party) essentially adopted some aspects of socialist propaganda as they realized (rightly so) that it contained powerful ideas. As a result a lot of moderates ended up joining, as well as economically liberal/socially conservative folks and socialists with chips on their shoulders. Infact, I read somewhere that while Hitler was in prison some higher-ups in the Nazi Party contacted the Communists and Socialists in Germany offering "peace" and co-operation against the common enemy (the rest of the world, the Treaty of Versailles and the League of Nations in particular) before Hitler came around and slapped them upside the head.

I've even met a few people who called themselves fascist but whose views (both economic and social) were more social-democrat. Fascism as an ideology provides some amount of "anti-conformity" which a lot of people go for, while simeltaneously providing a "powerful reprieve" and medium through which to express discontent.

Still, they should all be mercilessly killed and exterminated from the face of the earth. No quarter given.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

No, the political spectrum is a zigzag with a triangle at one end, a smiley face at the other, and a hexagon floating on top. :rolleyes:

I mean, seriously, you can't just make random shit up - with no argument to back it whatsoever - and pretend that it's a legitimate "theory." Every time people say something outrageous like that, your answer should always be: "Oh really? Prove it."

[LOLseph Stalin]

I have seen this. In my very own history class! Oh the horrors...

Apperently Communism and Fascism are the exact same because they're both totalitarian. No. Not quite... I can tell my teacher obviously hasn't read Marx. There's no mention in there about totalitarian dictators controlling the workers. It is corruption that results in totalitarianism, not communism itself. Fascism on the other hand... lol

[Plagueround]

Where's Ronal Reagan?

Dead, buried, and even less relevant than you claim Karl Marx is. :lol:


Paint me in there. ;):lol:

Ronnie would hate your ideas about wealth distribution and label you a liberal or a commie. :tt2:

[Bud Struggle]

Dead, buried, and even less relevant than you claim Karl Marx is. :lol:

Ronnie would hate your ideas about wealth distribution and label you a liberal or a commie. :tt2:

You know I meant that comment as a joke. :lol:

[redguard2009]

I mean, seriously, you can't just make random shit up - with no argument to back it whatsoever - and pretend that it's a legitimate "theory." Every time people say something outrageous like that, your answer should always be: "Oh really? Prove it."



Kwisatz Haderach (http://www.revleft.com/vb/political-spectrum-circle-t93277/member.php?u=8782)
Christian Communist

roflmfao @ irony

[Plagueround]

You know I meant that comment as a joke. :lol:

Mine was too. :)