Beginners - How Do YOU Define X?

[Dean]

I think it would be interesting to see what some of the beginners here think of some specific terms. I would like to see some definitions that beginners have for a few terms:

Capitalism -

Revolution -

Socialism -

Communism -

Anarchism -

Materialism -

Equality -

While there are certainly some "right and wrong" general ideas about these terms, I would like the discussion framed as if there is no concrete, unquestionable definitions.

Beginners, post your definitions to see what us 'timely gurus' have to say about them! :lol:

[Oneironaut]

I'll take a stab i guess:

capitalism: An economic system that is founded upon the pursuit of profit. Its current conception arose out of Britain in the late 1700's however it arose out of feudalism. Capitalism's mode of production consists of private appropriation of profit in the face of a socialized production. This profit arises out of goods being exchanged for more than their value. Workers take no place in the valuing of goods, they merely are paid a set wage. But it is the workers themselves who are the sole producers of value for all of society. However, the value that workers create is essentially robbed by capitalists who own the means of production. Capitalists justify their position with the legal conception of private property. Capitalists would argue that the profit they rob from workers benefits all of society. This system emerged during a historical period when there was a lack of capital in society for all humanity to enjoy in. They argue that they re-invest their stolen value by using these profits of society to create more means of production. Capitalism is going through a constant battle of killing itself then putting more and more bandages on its open wounds, resulting in cyclical recessions and booms. However, through the history of capitalism, it has created the exact means of production that will overthrow the system. The means of production already present that were created by capitalistsn could provide for all of humanity over if operated under a resource and need based economy. This leads us to the next issue...

revolution: A revolution involves the overthrow of the economic system and all its manifestations in society. This will never be done without violent class warfare. Presently, a revolution would involve abolishing private property, destroying the state and its institutions. Workers take control of the means of production that were previously under private authority. Society would be operated in a radically democratic (the end of representative democracy) manner. I can't say with confidence what more will happen.

socialism: Marx argued that a socialist state was necessary for a successful workers revolution. It is in this stage where the workers' state emerges and decides the proceeding of distribution based on their interests as workers. The mode of production is socialized. The wealth of society is fought back from the capitalists at all levels until the capitalist, bourgeois, and petty-bourgeois classes cease to exist. It is at this point that the argued socialist state will begin to whither away and true communism will be realized.

communism: Communism advocates for a truly liberated society where racism, sexism, homophobia and the oppression of man by man. A communist society would truly have no gods and no masters. The fruits of labor which all of society contributes is shared equally and democratically.

anarchism: Anarchism argues that the establishing of a socialist state is inherently hierarchical and will be in constant opposition to the establishment of a classless society. Anarchists instead argue for decentralization and worker controlled communities. Anarchists essentially deny that socialism is a necessary step towards communism. Anarchists believe that communism is possible now.

materialism: Materialism asserts that we are nothing more than we can see. Materialism opposes dualism in that materialism says the is no mind/body separation, it is simply one cohesive organic body. Materialists argue that ideas emerge out of material factors (economic systems) and not from a mystical out-of-reality source. Humans can only know what they experience.

equality: Equality is the elimination of class differences, sexism, racism, and homophobia. No one individual holds any more authority than another.

that kind of wore me out...

[DesertShark]

I'm ready to see how much I really know:

Capitalism - an economic theory/system that relies on the increasing exploitation of resources to fuel itself. It claims a 'free market' that allows everyone (from individuals to corporations) to participate in the acquisition and selling of goods/products/etc. Ideally, the harder one works, the more one would get.

Revolution - a change/overthrow of government or other group/organization exerting power/control over individuals that happens in a short period.

Socialism - an economic theory/system based on the ideal of state or collective ownership over goods and production.

Communism - an economic and social theory/system based on the ideal of collective ownership over goods and production, and the creation of a classless society.

Anarchism - political theory/philosophy with the ideal that government is not necessary; a lack of state or government control/rule; no government or rulers of any type.

Materialism - the belief that material items are important and the acquisition of large amounts of such goods makes an individual more valuable.

Equality - the belief that all peoples should treated fairly without prior judgment based on their race, sex, creed, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or any other such label.

-DesertShark

[Cohacq]

Capitalism - The expoliation done by a minority on the majority.

Revolution - The abolotition of said expolition.

Socialism - Social Democracy or the transition state between capitialism and communism where the state is withered away.

Communism - The final state of the revolution, where no countries exist and we are all citizens of the world, working together for commons goals.

Anarchism - Much like communism, but without the Socialism phase, also centralised.

Materialism - Peoples "need" to always have nicer stuff than others.

Equality - Nobody gets to be worse off than anyone else.

[Ratatosk]

Capitalism - private ownership of the means of production

Revolution - a sudden change in socioeconomic organization

Socialism - in the narrower sense, collective ownership of the means of production, in the broader sense, democratic decision-making in general

Communism - stateless, classless society (or an ideology which aims at creating one)

Anarchism - hm, dunno, I don't think the concept is particularly coherent

Materialism - same thing... I'll leave it up to materialists to define materialism

Equality - a syncategorematic term, individuals are equal with respect to some property if they both have it to the same degree (it's meaningless to talk about equality with specifying this property)

[Dean]

I want to apologise ahead of time if I seem condescending to anyone.


revolution: A revolution involves the overthrow of the economic system and all its manifestations in society. This will never be done without violent class warfare. Presently, a revolution would involve abolishing private property, destroying the state and its institutions. Workers take control of the means of production that were previously under private authority. Society would be operated in a radically democratic (the end of representative democracy) manner. I can't say with confidence what more will happen.[/quotes]
[QUOTE=DesertShark;1274013]Revolution - a change/overthrow of government or other group/organization exerting power/control over individuals that happens in a short period.

Revolution - a sudden change in socioeconomic organization

This narrow sense of revolution is interesting to me. Why should the term 'revolution' only apply to communist-oriented change, and at that, what makes you think a revolution is "quick"?

To put it in perspective: a revolution for the earth completes every year, and the revolution lasts for an entire year. Of course, I was talking about social organization, but the point remains: doesn't a revolution include all of the activity which leads through and out of one mode of production into the next?


socialism: Marx argued that a socialist state was necessary for a successful workers revolution. It is in this stage where the workers' state emerges and decides the proceeding of distribution based on their interests as workers. The mode of production is socialized. The wealth of society is fought back from the capitalists at all levels until the capitalist, bourgeois, and petty-bourgeois classes cease to exist. It is at this point that the argued socialist state will begin to whither away and true communism will be realized.

Socialism - an economic theory/system based on the ideal of state or collective ownership over goods and production.
Communism - an economic and social theory/system based on the ideal of collective ownership over goods and production, and the creation of a classless society.


Socialism - Social Democracy or the transition state between capitialism and communism where the state is withered away.
I think it is interesting how the term appears to refer to the transitional phase. I tend to use it to refer to organization which is heavily progressive but not communist, or to refer to ambiguous revolutionary leftists. In regards to revolution theory, it never seemed to have a distinct meaning to me.


communism: Communism advocates for a truly liberated society where racism, sexism, homophobia and the oppression of man by man. A communist society would truly have no gods and no masters. The fruits of labor which all of society contributes is shared equally and democratically.

[b]Communism - The final state of the revolution, where no countries exist and we are all citizens of the world, working together for commons goals.

Communism - stateless, classless society (or an ideology which aims at creating one)
I agree with all of you here. For me, communism is ultimately and fundamentally the removal of barriers and alienating forces between human beings, which every single one of these ideas seems to refer to in some fashion.


anarchism: Anarchism argues that the establishing of a socialist state is inherently hierarchical and will be in constant opposition to the establishment of a classless society. Anarchists instead argue for decentralization and worker controlled communities. Anarchists essentially deny that socialism is a necessary step towards communism. Anarchists believe that communism is possible now.

[B] Anarchism - political theory/philosophy with the ideal that government is not necessary; a lack of state or government control/rule; no government or rulers of any type.


[b]Anarchism - Much like communism, but without the Socialism phase, also centralised.
Do you mean decentralized? My understanding is that communism/socialism is already a decentralized system.

I don't see how Anarchism is qualitatively different. It seems to me that, fundamentally, the difference between anarchism and communism as ideologies is purely about perceived length of time for the transition. That seems like a pretty slippery waypoint, though, because time is a vague concept for this kind of theory. I consider myself a communist and an anarchist, I don't see how they differ, quite frankly.


materialism: Materialism asserts that we are nothing more than we can see. Materialism opposes dualism in that materialism says the is no mind/body separation, it is simply one cohesive organic body. Materialists argue that ideas emerge out of material factors (economic systems) and not from a mystical out-of-reality source. Humans can only know what they experience.

[B] Materialism - the belief that material items are important and the acquisition of large amounts of such goods makes an individual more valuable.

Materialism - Peoples "need" to always have nicer stuff than others.
Interesting. Firstly, take a cue from RedPlague :-P

Secondly, my sense of this differs as well. I think it is critical to appreciate the mind as a material organ, so I agree with that point. But the mysticism point always bothered me. Mysticism is an affirmation and embrace of your emotional existence. If we understand the mind as a material organ, so too are emotions material, and therefore the allegiance with emotion is an allegiance to a material phenomenon. In that sense, there is nothing immaterial about mysticism.


equality: Equality is the elimination of class differences, sexism, racism, and homophobia. No one individual holds any more authority than another.

Equality - a syncategorematic term, individuals are equal with respect to some property if they both have it to the same degree (it's meaningless to talk about equality with specifying this property)

Equality - the belief that all peoples should treated fairly without prior judgment based on their race, sex, creed, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or any other such label.

Equality - Nobody gets to be worse off than anyone else.
Cohacq put it best, I think, very succint. I don't really disagree with anyone here.

I don't want to sound like a guru, I just thought I should throw some of my ideas out there since I started the thread. I think what I like about those who aren't inundated with theory is that some of their attitudes express distinctly communist ideas without any weighted language or theoretical jargon. This is probably the most socially agreeable, yet ultimately revolutionary expressions I've seen in a while:

Equality - Nobody gets to be worse off than anyone else.

I find that I have the best luck with people when I am more subtle. Take this example:

In is totally againt the interests of the Proletariat to vote for bourgeois, corporate politicians who promote western imperialism
Versus

I won't vote for Obama because it is against my interests. He voted for the bailout and trillions in corporate welfare, while ignoring poorer, bankrupt citizens who don't need as much but for whom a little will mean a lot more; his economic policy is an affront to our soverignty over our government programs. Obama would like to escalate current conflicts and start new ones, and that is bad for the world - what is bad for the rest of the world ultimately harms U.S. security.

I think some members have shown what areas they should look into, and some "beginners" are clearly quite advanced already. This thread will be interesting as it plays out.

[Cohacq]

About the anarchist bit, yes i missed "de" in decentralised.

[spice756]

Capitalism - an economic system of private ownership ,individualism ,the worker and capitalist. ( class hierarchy)

Revolution - a major change than reform bill ( small change )

Socialism - A state control or worrker state in the interest of the people not profit and production own by the people or state.And every thing operated according to equity and fairness.

Communism - A decentralize of state to a local level , group ownership of production than state.

Anarchism - political theory that the state is bad and what no state or government.Some anarchism what a decentralize of state to a local level a town ,work place or district.

Both Communism and Anarchism are group ownership of production than state run .

Materialism - the belief that physical matter is the only reality than Soul or god or other matter we cannot see,feel or touch .

Equality - the belief that all peoples should be treated fairly no matter what .

[Charles Xavier]

Capitalism - A socio-economic political system where the means of productions are owned privately.

Revolution - The overthrow of a ruling retrogressive class with a progressive class.

Socialism - A system where the means of productions are owned socially by the people of a given state for the benefit of the majority.

Communism - A system where the means of production are owned collectively by all worlds people

Anarchism - A theory of great men who individually create change in order to overthrow society.

Materialism - A theory where Matter is the primary source of the world, as opposed to idealism

Equality - All men are created equal and should be treated equal.

[#FF0000]

Anarchism - A theory of great men who individually create change in order to overthrow society.

That's simply is not true.

There's really nothing else I can say about it.

It's wrong.

[DesertShark]

This narrow sense of revolution is interesting to me. Why should the term 'revolution' only apply to communist-oriented change, and at that, what makes you think a revolution is "quick"?

To put it in perspective: a revolution for the earth completes every year, and the revolution lasts for an entire year. Of course, I was talking about social organization, but the point remains: doesn't a revolution include all of the activity which leads through and out of one mode of production into the next?
I don't think that my definition only applied to communist-oriented change. When I said "over a short period," I meant that revolution causes the change faster then just a normal progression would, it's like a jump-start to change. I don't think that 'revolution' includes the 'into the next,' just 'out of the one.'


I think it is interesting how the term appears to refer to the transitional phase. I tend to use it to refer to organization which is heavily progressive but not communist, or to refer to ambiguous revolutionary leftists. In regards to revolution theory, it never seemed to have a distinct meaning to me.
I agree, which is why I did not describe it as a transitional phrase. I know that Marx saw socialism as a transitional phase between capitalism and communism, which is probably why some people were describing it as such.


I agree with all of you here. For me, communism is ultimately and fundamentally the removal of barriers and alienating forces between human beings, which every single one of these ideas seems to refer to in some fashion.
I think that anarchism is actually this 'removal of barriers and alienating forces between human beings' you are referring to.


Do you mean decentralized? My understanding is that communism/socialism is already a decentralized system.

I don't see how Anarchism is qualitatively different. It seems to me that, fundamentally, the difference between anarchism and communism as ideologies is purely about perceived length of time for the transition. That seems like a pretty slippery waypoint, though, because time is a vague concept for this kind of theory. I consider myself a communist and an anarchist, I don't see how they differ, quite frankly.
From what you are saying communism seems to be a form of organizing within an anarchist state. I don't consider anarchism in it's ideal definition as a transitional period.


Interesting. Firstly, take a cue from RedPlague :-P

Secondly, my sense of this differs as well. I think it is critical to appreciate the mind as a material organ, so I agree with that point. But the mysticism point always bothered me. Mysticism is an affirmation and embrace of your emotional existence. If we understand the mind as a material organ, so too are emotions material, and therefore the allegiance with emotion is an allegiance to a material phenomenon. In that sense, there is nothing immaterial about mysticism.
I did not realize that you meant the philosophy of materialism, I thought you meant economic materialism. But yes, dualism is wrong. I'm not sure how I feel on the idea that the only thing that can be proven to exist is matter, in my opinion the only thing anyone can know is their own existence.


Cohacq put it best, I think, very succint. I don't really disagree with anyone here.

I don't want to sound like a guru, I just thought I should throw some of my ideas out there since I started the thread. I think what I like about those who aren't inundated with theory is that some of their attitudes express distinctly communist ideas without any weighted language or theoretical jargon. This is probably the most socially agreeable, yet ultimately revolutionary expressions I've seen in a while:

I think some members have shown what areas they should look into, and some "beginners" are clearly quite advanced already. This thread will be interesting as it plays out.
Indeed, that definition of equality is very succinct. Thank you for your thoughts and for starting the thread.

-DesertShark

[Charles Xavier]

That's simply is not true.

There's really nothing else I can say about it.

It's wrong.


Didn't you say V for Vendetta was a good movie?

[Cohacq]

desertshark - succinct? I searched for an explaination for that word, but didnt find anything to make out of it. What does it mean?

[#FF0000]

Didn't you say V for Vendetta was a good movie?

Sure. I also thought Wall Street was entertaining. :mellow: Guess I'm a capitalist too.

[DesertShark]

desertshark - succinct? I searched for an explaination for that word, but didnt find anything to make out of it. What does it mean?
The word was used by Dean to describe your definition of equality, I was agreeing with him because your definition was right to the point.
From Merriam-Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/succinct):

marked by compact precise expression without wasted words
And from dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=succinct):

expressed in few words; concise; terse
Concise is great synonym for the word, which I actually use way more often then succinct.

-DesertShark

[Dean]

I think it would be interesting to see what some of the beginners here think of some specific terms. I would like to see some definitions that beginners have for a few terms:
Here are mine:

Capitalism -
A mode of economic organization which utilizes profit motive to ecnourage commodity production.

Revolution -
A turn of social organization - a completed epoch leading up to the transformation into a new form of organization.

Socialism -
A system of social activity which removes the profit motive and centralized control from all facets of society. Socialism is characterized by a lack of wealth disparity, and under this system society is reorganized to meet the needs of all people, utilizing all available labor.

Communism -
A form of social organization where no hierarchy exists, humans live in active respect of each other, and huamn labor is totally unalienated from the human being. Communism is funadamentally characterized by a lack of alienation between human beings; it is only by achieving this standard that communism can exist or bear fruit.

Anarchism -
A total lack of hierarchy or any form of authority or forced social activity. This is identical to communism in every application of the leftist ideal I aahve ever seen.

Materialism -
A sense of philosophical and scientific inquiry which posits that the physical, energetic and chemical existence of all things determine all real existential phenomena. The human mind or spirit is understood to be a material fact, and therefore relevant as a function of the body, not an external force.

Equality -
A system of comparison which removes arbitrary distinctions from its critique. In regards to human society, equality is a respectful (interested, considerate) application of egalitarian moral attitudes.

[Dean]

Didn't you say V for Vendetta was a good movie?

I believe that Rorschach is rejecting the notion that lack of authority implies right-wing individualist sentiment.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Materialism - Peoples "need" to always have nicer stuff than others.


Materialism- What my friends strongly believe in.

Sorry, couldn't resist. It's sad, but true... O_O