Calling All Welshmen

[BashTheFash]

I speak on behalf of the True Welsh Republican Army (TWRA)

Your country needs you, my fellow welshmen.

We must rise up and free our beloved country from the grips of british rule and establish a free wales.

Our aims are to establish a socialist republic of cyrmu and to establist a free wales.

Any welsh men or women aged between 14-30 interested in gettin involved with the TWRA can pm me.

Fe Godwn Ni Eto!
We Will Rise Again.

[Holden Caulfield]

when i was fucked out my mind the other night me and a mate co-founded the CLA, Cumbrian Liberation Army, as my facebook page declares,

quit trying to steal my thunder,

although we share common ground on wanting to get rid of rich southerns 2nd home owners, your burnt them out we plan to drown them out,

biblical!

[Trystan]

Not interested.

Support internationalism, not nationalism.

[Dr Mindbender]

I speak on behalf of the True Welsh Republican Army (TWRA)

Your country needs you, my fellow welshmen.

We must rise up and free our beloved country from the grips of british rule and establish a free wales.
who cares about british rule? What about beourgiose rule?


Our aims are to establish a socialist republic of cyrmu and to establist a free wales.
:lol:

At least get your welsh right first.


Any welsh men or women aged between 14-30 interested in gettin involved with the TWRA can pm me.


why is the cut-off age 30? Isnt that rather ageist?

and i frown on under 16's fighting guerilla combat, they ought to complete their education first.

[Pirate Utopian]

I'm waiting for someone to make a sheep joke.

[BashTheFash]

ulster socialist

your location says "the occupied 6 counties"

we are the welsh version of the IRA..

we want to see wales split from the union, and we want to see wales united

tiocfiadh ar la!
Fe Godwn Ni Eto!

[Trystan]

That's different. N. Ireland was under a military occupation.

The Welsh people do not to be "liberated" from anything that the English, the Scots, the Italians, and the Egyptians, do not need to be liberated from.

[BashTheFash]

actually in a poll conducted by the daily post .. 70% of welsh people favour a totally legistlative welsh assembly and welsh freedom from british political interference.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You do know that Wales is supported by English taxpayers?

It would be amusing for Wales to be granted independance, just to see them drop to the level of a third-world country and have them begging to be let back in.

[BashTheFash]

yes we would be a rather poor country

why is this?

because the terrorist margaret thatcher closed our mines and stole our industry

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

yes we would be a rather poor country

why is this?

because the terrorist margaret thatcher closed our mines and stole our industry

You could re-open them, but what are you going to do when it costs more to get coal out than you get money from selling it?

[spartan]

You do know that Wales is supported by English taxpayers?

It would be amusing for Wales to be granted independance, just to see them drop to the level of a third-world country and have them begging to be let back in.

I am sure the English reactionaries said the same when Eire got their independence.

Also BashTheFash one of my relatives was a member of Meibion Glyn Dwr (the sons of Glyn Dwr) who used to go around firebombing rich English people's holiday homes in Wales.

[BashTheFash]

well said brawd

[BashTheFash]

do we have your support spartan?

[Trystan]

actually in a poll conducted by the daily post .. 70% of welsh people favour a totally legistlative welsh assembly and welsh freedom from british political interference.

So?

[BashTheFash]

it is the majority will of the welsh people to be independent from britain

this makes britains political presence here a crime

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I am sure the English reactionaries said the same when Eire got their independence.

Ireland gets EU money instead. 'nuff said.

[Dr Mindbender]

it is the majority will of the welsh people to be independent from britain

this makes britains political presence here a crime

bash please come to this forum

http://www.ukdebate.co.uk/forums/

i cant wait to see what johnofgwent makes of you he has a particular hatred of the 'cottage burning terrorists'.

And the IRA situation is not the same sorry, bad analogy.

[Dr Mindbender]

Ireland gets EU money instead. 'nuff said.

why couldnt an independent wales get EU money?

oh and the celtic tiger is largely self subsidised.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

why couldnt an independent wales get EU money?

Because then it wouldn't be independant.


oh and the celtic tiger is largely self subsidised.

Then what powers it's economy?

[Pogue]

As an independent country, Wales could not survive cos it's economy is not strong enough. Please don't tell me you're gonna get violent, you'll just end up like the IRA towards the end, attacked by the British state in a war you can't win, killing civilians and like many national liberation armed groups, drug running and kidnapping. Pointless shit. Form an international workers movement, free everyone not just Wales.

[Pogue]

Oh and apparently around 12% of the Welsh Electorate want independence?

[Dr Mindbender]

Because then it wouldn't be independant.
In terms of soverignty, it would. Although if you want to apply that logic then it means Eire is'nt independent either.




Then what powers it's economy?
Eire has a booming construction, logistics and various other miscellaneous industries.

A lot of it is no doubt thanks to warm American-Irish relations due to the Irish diaspora in the US.

[Sentinel]

This is a political thread, and a call to organise -- not Chit Chat.

Moved to Practice for now.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

So instead of being ruled over by a majority English borgeouisie, Wales would be ruled over by a majority Welsh borgeouisie.

Er, hooray? :confused:

I really don't understand why petty nationalism is considered a good thing amongst some leftists.

[Dr Mindbender]

So instead of being ruled over by a majority English borgeouisie, Wales would be ruled over by a majority Welsh borgeouisie.

Er, hooray? :confused:

I really don't understand why petty nationalism is considered a good thing amongst some leftists.

i think the argument is that in some cases it is 'the lesser of 2 evils'. I am mildly sympathetic towards the scottish and welsh nationalist cases purely on the basis that i think their proposed political establishments would be more leftist leaning than the current UK government.

[Pogue]

i think the argument is that in some cases it is 'the lesser of 2 evils'. I am mildly sympathetic towards the scottish and welsh nationalist cases purely on the basis that i think their proposed political establishments would be more leftist leaning than the current UK government.

For like, a week.

[Dr Mindbender]

For like, a week.

the Scottish Socialist Party had about 5 MSP's at one stage.

Can you imagine the SWP getting 5 MP's in westminster?

[PRC-UTE]

Then what powers it's economy?

The EU built much of Ireland's infrastructure. Look at the bus station in Cork, the one by the Lee, has a massive mural praising EU grants. What fuelled the economic boom though, dubbed the Celtic Tiger was de-regulation that attracted investment. That's why the 26c state will suffer worse than Britain in this recession.

However that's a vast improvement over British rule- which built up Ulster east of the Bann and left the rest to rot.

[Pogue]

the Scottish Socialist Party had about 5 MSP's at one stage.

Can you imagine the SWP getting 5 MP's in westminster?

I mean they'll be left wing for about a week when they gain serious power before selling out to the highest bidder. I don't doubt the SWP would be the same, if it held power for long enough. Power corrupts and all that jazz.

[Prairie Fire]

You do know that Wales is supported by English taxpayers?

It would be amusing for Wales to be granted independance, just to see them drop to the level of a third-world country and have them begging to be let back in.


Typical bourgeois argument against national soveriegnty; we hear it in Canada all the time, used against the case of a hypothetical soveriegn Quebec that splits with Canada .

[Random Precision]

Revolutionaries support self-determination for oppressed nationalities. Can you make the case that the Welsh, as a part of the United Kingdom, are oppressed by the English?

[Wanted Man]

I don't think there's much of a point in Welsh nationalism. But I also don't agree with the kneejerk English nationalist responses in this thread: "Wales needs England, Wales would be useless without us, etc." Disappointing.

[Jazzratt]

Really a welsh split from England would be a huge waste of time and effort. Even if they do manage to build a strong economy, even if they do manage to re-open the old industries - everything about it will be built on rabid nationalism (which I understand can get quite ugly).

This is even more insane than the "anti-imperailist" support for nationalist gangsters - it doesn't even have a hint of supporting logic to it.

[Pogue]

How are arguments that Wales needs England disappointing? Its a fact. There is no way Wales could survive alone.

[Jazzratt]

How are arguments that Wales needs England disappointing? Its a fact. There is no way Wales could survive alone.

I think it's because they often look like dodgy right-wing nationalist arguments; something like "those ingrate taffs have been leaching off the english taxpayer and now they want freedom! I shall be writing a letter to the daily mail immediately!". While it's true that currently Wales is too small economically it could well, with help from Europe become a reasonable economy. But there would be no point and the transition would really suck for the welsh worker.

[Lord Testicles]

Dim Diolch.

Lets sort out this capitalism thing first.

[Pogue]

I think it's because they often look like dodgy right-wing nationalist arguments; something like "those ingrate taffs have been leaching off the english taxpayer and now they want freedom! I shall be writing a letter to the daily mail immediately!". While it's true that currently Wales is too small economically it could well, with help from Europe become a reasonable economy. But there would be no point and the transition would really suck for the welsh worker.

Yeh good point, but it still stands as true, the simple fact, if you look at the evidence, from a rational economic point of view Wales would collapse on its own. Scotland would suffer.

I'd say it could be seen as internationalist too, saying how if people go it alone they'll fail, like USSR etc, whereas if they work together, they obvoiusly wont. I know the union of England & Wales is far from proletarian internationalism but, you know.

[Raúl Duke]

You do know that Wales is supported by English taxpayers?

It would be amusing for Wales to be granted independance, just to see them drop to the level of a third-world country and have them begging to be let back in.

I hear this argument all the time when it comes to Puerto Rico.

[Dr Mindbender]

I hear this argument all the time when it comes to Puerto Rico.

is there any appetite in puerto rico for independence though?

The Welsh are strongly nationalist.

[Pogue]

I think we'd need to see the stats though. We'd need to see the % of people who vote Plaid Cymru, and opinion polls about how many people in Wales want complete independence. I saw a figure saying 12% of the Welsh electorate supported full independence but it could have been wrong or out of date. Voting for Plaid Cymru does not equal wanting Welsh independence just like that, and even the SNP leadership realise they can't just split from the union straight away.

[welshred]

hmm another welsh nationalist "army" heh? like the WRA who threatened charles to get out of his home or face being a target? sure enough a lot of talk but nothing happened. There have been loads of such groups, a few of them starting where I live in the so called "little england beyond wales" meibion glyndwr started in the town I was born in. the only movement that was a threat was the MAC. who cares if wales is liberated? your swapping one set of rulers for another!!

[GazCeltic1888]

interesting idea comrade.

perhaps setting up something based on groups like ETA and the INLA would be more successful and draw more support from the community here though.

And Hey to all by the way, I'm new here

[Pogue]

Nice, you a Celtic fan? Things are looking good for you tonight at the moment

[Bilan]

This is a stupid idea.
And the arguments for it are not really of any substance.

First, it's got nothing to do with the "English Nationalism". The Welsh Economy is too small to be able to sustain itself.
And why are socialists supporting isolationist economies?

Second, it's not like Puerto Rico or Ireland - the situation is vastly different, and a comparison on these terms is not equal.

Thirdly, there is no point in this. You liberate yourself from the British power, you have ousted the British bourgeoisie. Hoorah! Now you have no industry, and you have a new Welsh bourgeoisie.
Oppression is in every language, every region. The nationality of your boss wont undermine that. A boss is a boss. Capitalism is capitalism. Nuff said.

To the OP, ironic that you'd support Antifa and also support a nationalist army? Hyper-nationalism and fascism tend to work hand-in-hand. (Though, not necessarily)

Best put your efforts to socialist revolution, rather than Welsh faux-emancipation.

[chebol]

Ulster Socialist wrote:

The Welsh are strongly nationalist.

No, the Welsh are strongly Welsh. As the figures show, the nationalist sentiment is a bit lower on the scale.

[There are other, better threads, discussing the issue, which don't involve toy armies and adolescent over-enthusiasm for elitist violent "liberation" struggles].

So, while I support the right of Wales to self-determination (and it IS a different case to Eire), this thread makes me think of nothing more than the link below:

hwyl!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IaE3EaQte78

[Bilan]

I don't support it. It will disadvantage the Welsh Working class.

[welshboy]

I speak on behalf of the True Welsh Republican Army (TWRA)

Your country needs you, my fellow welshmen.

We must rise up and free our beloved country from the grips of british rule and establish a free wales.

Our aims are to establish a socialist republic of cyrmu and to establist a free wales.

Any welsh men or women aged between 14-30 interested in gettin involved with the TWRA can pm me.

Fe Godwn Ni Eto!
We Will Rise Again.

You are joking are you not?
If so, lol.
If not, cock!

[nuisance]

BashtheFash previously posted a thread in the anarchist forum based on a interest of the AF, oh how things change.