pearl harbor - what do you think?

[dopediana]

there is the theory concerning pearl harbor stating that FDR knew the attack was coming. can someone tell me a little bit more about this conclusion? i'd also like to know if any of you think that was the case...

[atlanticche]

I do not know much on this but it sounds more like a rumour and is unlikely ever to certified
but i dont mean it couldn't be true
for all we know he could of been payed by the japeness or even nazies not to make any imediate actions
but its most likely they thought it wouldn't hapen and that it is unlikely for the japanese to make a desisive enough attack to effect the american military and they would be ready


just my opinion though

[Sabocat]

I've read (and I'll have to see if I can find the sources again) that Russia and England both had intelligence almost a year before the attack, and that there was definite warnings the month before.

Apparently the Japanese codes had been broken as much as a year before.

(Edited by Disgustapated at 8:50 pm on May 11, 2003)

[Invader Zim]

Disgustapated is right at a place very near to where i live is the place where they broke the codes, Bletchley park. There i read that they had been telling the yanks that an attack was coming weeks before the event.

That is the supposed reason why the bulk of the US navy was not in port, according to a guy that works in Bletchley park.

[Robot Rebellion]

Quote: from the amaryllis on 6:47 pm on May 11, 2003
there is the theory concerning pearl harbor stating that FDR knew the attack was coming. can someone tell me a little bit more about this conclusion? i'd also like to know if any of you think that was the case...
It is pretty much confirmed. Here is an article on such http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=179 More info can be obtained via google containing 'pearl harbor' 'hull' or 'taylor' keywords.

One needs to realize that the Americans had a superiority complex over the 'Japs' and didn't feel they could do a lot of damage against the US. American's had no major conflicts with Orientals up to that point in history. Also, carrier warfare was relatively new and unappreciated. FDR probably surmised the ships and planes at Hawaii would easily shoot down ‘inferior’ Japanese and it would be no big deal. We know now how bloody the campaign to conquer Japan was, to which American’s had no luxury of knowing such and probably bought into their own propaganda of their own superiority.

What is most curious is why the Japanese wanted to attack the US. The US had issued a number of warnings to the Japanese, like the Hull Note, which warned of dire consequences to the Japanese if they didn't withdraw from Manchuria and other severe, purposely unobtainable goals. The Japanese viewed this as an ultimatum and viewed their attack as self-defense (Tojo's testimony in the Japanese war trials are most revealing...) The US also warned there would be war if the Japanese invaded Dutch-East-Indies (translation invaded the American, Dutch, and British company claims on oil there, where Indonesia has so much oil, today it is a member of OPEC.) When the US stopped their companies from shipping oil up from South East Asia, (which Britain and the Netherlands copied), the Japanese were cornered rats for they had no oil. Europe and America had taught Japan well on how to colonialize Asia, to which they reasoned there was nothing inferior to Japanese colonialism compared to Caucasian colonialism. (In fact some of their colonial efforts justified such as being protection against the European and American colonialization.) Since Japan had to take 'Indonesia' which the American's said would equate with war, they reasoned they must take out the Americans in the Philippians which could interfere with Japanese oil tankers returning their prize. Hawaii was able to resupply the Philippians to which they reasoned they must cripple the US's offensive ability their. They then set a defensive arc around Japan in an attempt to wear down the Americans and convince them to give up their efforts in Asia, to no avail...

It is no secret FDR wanted war with Germany (even during his campaign that promised like Wilson to keep the US out of war.) Japan which had signed the tripartite pact so they could secure French-Vichy-Vietnam, was a tool that could pull the Americans into war against Germany, (even though Hitler already deemed the Americans at war with Germany given her substantial military aid to Great Britain.) Pearl Harbor happened and the rest is history...

Anybody curious as to the history of oil and American conflicts should read http://www.hermes-press.com/impintro1.htm The real reason the US fought everything from Vietnam, to Afghanistan, to placing troops in Georgia, Columbia, and many more places...

[Guardia Bolivariano]

What we do know for sure is that the americans started the fighting.

The battle of Pearl Harbor didn't beging in PH.

It actually started when the US sunk a japanese sub.

[nz revolution]

What about the shit where the yanks thought all the japanese planes were geese or the mail delivery planes and even when they found out that they were going to be attacked they didn't notify the general or whoever the fuck was in command because he was playing golf and they didn't want to disturb him.

HAHAHAHHAHAHA. Fuckin arrogance aye?

Yeah they sunk a sub in the harbour and still didn't think they were going to be attacked.

[Urban Rubble]

I've heard various conpiracy theories about what happened, but one thing is for sure, we did sink a japanese sub off of the coast of Hawaii hours before the attack.

[Nobody]

Just a little tidbit of info. The Japanse started the Russo-Japanense war about 30 yrs before PH but sneak attacking the Russian Fleet at Port Arthur. Sounds familiar.

[rumblefish86]

If you want to know what really happened just dont watch the film. What a load of bollocks

[Sabocat]

If you watch that shit movie, you'd swear the U$ won the fucking battle.

It's absolute drek.

[Urban Rubble]

Wait, we didn't win the attack ? Are you serious ? Who are your sources ? I demand to know !! Next you're going to tell me that Ben Affleck wasn't there !!

[Sabocat]

Quote: from Urban Rubble on 11:18 pm on May 15, 2003
Wait, we didn't win the attack ? Are you serious ? Who are your sources ? I demand to know !! Next you're going to tell me that Ben Affleck wasn't there !!

LOL. The funny shit is, that I read sometime after the filming that Affleck was so moved, that he was considering running for political office of some sort.

What a jerkoff.

[dopediana]

Quote: from Disgustapated on 9:45 pm on May 15, 2003

Quote: from Urban Rubble on 11:18 pm on May 15, 2003
Wait, we didn't win the attack ? Are you serious ? Who are your sources ? I demand to know !! Next you're going to tell me that Ben Affleck wasn't there !!

LOL. The funny shit is, that I read sometime after the filming that Affleck was so moved, that he was considering running for political office of some sort.

What a jerkoff.

no! really? do you have a link to anything about it? how'd you find out?

[Exploited Class]

I remember asking my grandma a year ago if she was suprised when she found out that Pearl Harbor was attacked?

She said, "Suprised like wow, it happened finally, suprised that it happened? No. We were expecting it to come, we were poking them with sticks, economic sanctions, and they said they considered that an act of war. We were all waiting for when, not if."

The she asked me if I was suprised about 9-11? I said no, I knew it was going to happen eventually with our foreign policy, I was just didn't know how or what date or method.

The she asked, "But some people couldn't believe it huh?"

"Sure, some people didn't ever think it could happen to us. They were shocked. Well the samething back then, a nation of people not understanding what we were doing to Japan didn't expect that to happen, much like people today not expecting some form of retaliation for our current foreign policies."

Gore Videl has publicly said that FDR knew about the attacks, expected the attacks and welcomed the attacks. If you know any background on Gore, his accomplishments and such. You would know him to not be a crackpot or a conspiracy theorist and such. He has ample evidence to point to all of this.

Essentially, there is more evidence that we knew, that we chose to do nothing and that we wanted it to happen more than we were just caught off guard.

[Liberty Lover]

"a nation of people not understanding what we were doing to Japan didn't expect that to happen, much like people today not expecting some form of retaliation for our current foreign policies."

What the fuck is this!?

Japan; an Empire allied with Nazi Germany that was engaged in a war aimed at conquering vast amounts of territory throughout Asia; an Empire with militantly anti-American generals like Tojo Hideki; an Empire that had massacred millions of Chinese and Korean civilians; and yet an Empire towards which you believe America should have remained neutral! What bullshit!!!

If there was any flaw in American policy towards Japan it is that they waited to be attacked.


(Edited by Liberty Lover at 4:18 am on May 17, 2003)

[lostsoul]

my reaction on pearl harbor bombing:

YAY!!!!!

Pearl harbor was a justifyable military target. Japan fucked america up so good that America cries about it like a *****. What did america do in relation for the attack on pearl? bomb and kill civilian cities.

(i was discussing tonight a simlair idea..and me and my friend came to the conslution that america basically is the way it is because it has no morals..and yet when other countries don't use morals on them, they complain...)

[Urban Rubble]

I just love it when people excuse the evils of another country as long as they attacked the U.S.

Japan was a bloody Imperialist country alligned with Nazis and you're happy that they bombed the U.S. That's fucked up.

[lostsoul]

from a military point of view. It was an important place to hit.

Japan killed many people directly and america killed many people indirectly with their policies.

both are equally evil, both fighting with each other isn't bad, its better they fight each other instead of fighting innocent countries.

i am not excusing Japan's evils, i just hoped that they fucked up each other more(on only military targets), before the war ended.

[rumblefish86]

The most important thing about the bombing of Pearl Habour is that is was the event which helped the West win the war.

Before, America had refused to join the war but after the attack America finally joined the war alongside Britain and we eventually won. The theory is that they let the attack happen because they knew that would be the final push in making America join the war and helping us to win.

If that attack had never happened then chances are America would not have fought and we would probably lost the war, they knew this and thats why Pearl Harbour was allowed to happen.

This theory is probably a load of shit but it does make sense

[Urban Rubble]

Actually, I don't think that "theory" is bullshit at all. All the historical evidence points directly to that "theory".

[lostsoul]

i wouldn't be suprised if it was true either.

[synthesis]

It's all right here.

http://members.willinet.net/mewilley/

[synthesis]

I should probably add that I'm not exactly 100% certain of that site's accuracy, to say the least.

"The plan could only work if Japan's attack succeeded. The lure of a weakened US in a two-front war focused on Japan seemed to make a German war declaration cost-free. But it was all a trap - FDR was always going to ignore Japan and go after Hitler, for his ultimate goal was to save his beloved Soviet Communism."