Skinheads

[funlandatthebeach]

I'm a skinhead. Not a neo-nazi bonehead but a skinhead. I love reggae and punk rock and all kinds of shit.

but WHY is it that I can't look up skinhead on the internet without there being abunch of shit about nazis come up?

is there a place where I can find REAL Skins or Redskins and not fascists?

[Holden Caulfield]

look up RASH (red & anarcho skin heads) or SHARP (skin heads against racial prejudice)

[Pogue]

Search SHARP or RASH, antifa skinhead groups.

Brigada Flores Magon, Los Fastidios, Sin Dios, Angelic Upstarts, etc etc.

And here of course.

[Sprinkles]

I'm a skinhead. Not a neo-nazi bonehead but a skinhead. I love reggae and punk rock and all kinds of shit.


I had no idea Patty Hearst and the Symbionese Liberation Army were skinheads. :D

Just kidding of course, but besides what was already suggested by looking up Sharp and Rash, I'd suggest not getting too fixated on combining a particular subcultural musical genre with politics.

[Charles Xavier]

I don't get skinheads, is it some sort of clique like the goths are?

[Sprinkles]

I don't get skinheads, is it some sort of clique like the goths are?

Yeah, like Goth it's a subculture which revolves around music and a certain fashion style among other things.
The racist connection to skinheads originated from the band Skrewdriver, if I remember it right the antifascist skinhead groups like Rash and Sharp were a reaction to oppose this.

In my opinion the connection between liking a genre of music and having a certain kind of politics like this (or for example the cross over between anarchism and punk) is a bit silly, but each their own I guess.

[The Douche]

Where are you from? I know how to get in touch with a lot of RASH crews around the world.

[black magick hustla]

all subcultures are silly

[The Douche]

all subcultures are silly

As revolutionary organs, yes. But outside of that context I think they make sense and can be positive.

[Pogue]

They're natural reactions to post-modern society(subcultures). And they're cool, interesting and create alternatives. Skinhead culture is and was brilliant if you ignore the nazi stuff which admittedly is hard to do. Skinhead fashion is mint and still popular, with DMs and Ben Sherman etc.

Skinheads were originally about black & white cultures mxing through reggae and ska coming from Jamaica to the UK. Skinheads were white guys in the UK dressing similar to their Jamaican fellows. It was a working class subculture arising from the perceived fancy middle class culture of hippies. It was tough, simple, working class etc. The NF sort of took over the sub-culture, espcially during the skinhead resurgence and the Thatcher years, where alot of disillusioned white skinheads looking for someone to blame for unemployment, poverty etc. Rather than blame Thatcher, the ***** who caused the Falklands war, another thing which annoyed people, instead of blaming her, the true culprit, they chose instead to blame immigrants, mainly Asian ones, Indian, pakistani etc. Skinheads were assoicated with 'paki bashing' which was basicaly beating up Asian people. Apparently a number of black skinheads joined in with this too, but the boneheads would have mainly and mostly been white and obviously nazi, and so anti black people too. Note how I say bonehead referring to specifcally the racist nazi skinheads.

RASH and SHARP were reactions to the boneheads, SHARP being formed to comabt racism and RASH coming about after a gay guy was beaten/I think killed (i'll look it up) by an anti-racist yet still predjudiced homophobe guy who i assume was a skinhead but still i'm not sure so look it up. Skinhead culture still sort of exists today with some groups in its birthplace, the UK, especially in the north, and from what i have seen and heard is popular in the US and in mainland Europe, as most of the good skinhead bands today are in italy, France, Spain etc. All the good ones are antifa too, its rare to find apolitical ones these days.

Skinheads were obviously originally non racist and mainly apolitical, just being about english people getting together with jamaicans and dressing similar to rudeboy culture and enjoying their music and what not but got hijacked by the NF and all that bollocks, but is again left wing in alot of places today even though the media still talks about skinheads being nazis and what not. But big media is full of shit anyway, so they can fuck right off. I reccomend everyone listens to the Oi! bands I listed earlier cos its good music about good stuff.

[redarmyfaction38]

I'm a skinhead. Not a neo-nazi bonehead but a skinhead. I love reggae and punk rock and all kinds of shit.

but WHY is it that I can't look up skinhead on the internet without there being abunch of shit about nazis come up?

is there a place where I can find REAL Skins or Redskins and not fascists?
oh mate, i'm an original, back when i was a little boy, versed in revolution at 11 years old (1968), skinheads were the original contradiction, we shaved our heads to demonstrate our working class origins as opposed to the hippie long hairs who were mainly middle and upper class.
we danced to reggae and tamla motown, our heroes were mainly west indian and we kicked bits out of each other on the football terraces, we all voted old labour and were paid up members of trade unions and the young communists.
at the same time we went "paki hunting".
that is why you keep getting directed to fascist and nazi groups.
no apologies, that's the way it was, politics and political ideology, let alone personal experience are far more contradictory than a ny political or religious zealot is willing to tell you.

[black magick hustla]

As revolutionary organs, yes. But outside of that context I think they make sense and can be positive.

:shrugs: to each its own, I guess. I never got the whole idea of "subculture", it seemed to me as a group of people who try to rebel but at the same time end up looking and talking the same.

I dont dislike them. I think some subcultures have cool music and atmospheres, but the idea of identifying with one of them, i.e. becoming a skinhead, is pretty silly.

[Holden Caulfield]

boots are hard wearing and good for kicking, cuffed jeans so the bottoms down get dirty or stood of and so they will last longer, short hair so if you get in a fight it won't get pulled,

out of all the subcultures (im not part of any) skinhead is my personal favourite, looks good, working class roots, cheapish in the long run, good for not getting your arse kicked in

[nuisance]

:shrugs: to each its own, I guess. I never got the whole idea of "subculture", it seemed to me as a group of people who try to rebel but at the same time end up looking and talking the same.

It seems like a group of people whom have certain things in common and want to associate with like minded people.

[black magick hustla]

boots are hard wearing and good for kicking, cuffed jeans so the bottoms down get dirty or stood of and so they will last longer, short hair so if you get in a fight it won't get pulled,

out of all the subcultures (im not part of any) skinhead is my personal favourite, looks good, working class roots, cheapish in the long run, good for not getting your arse kicked in


i can see the appeal of skinhead culture, but it is pretty macho and sexist. I mean, I think it looks cool as fuck but I also think it is based around on BRAWLING and being a hardass which is dumb as hell.


It seems like a group of people whom have certain things in common and want to associate with like minded people.

Perhaps. But all these subcultures are also called "countercultures" for a reason, and I think a lot of these folks claim to be against the "system yo" or whatever.

[nuisance]

Perhaps. But all these subcultures are also called "countercultures" for a reason, and I think a lot of these folks claim to be against the "system yo" or whatever.
Subcultures don't really brand themselves as 'counter-culture'. Also subculture and counter-culture generally means different to the mainstream music, fashion. That's the pivitol parts of a subculture, not political oppostion to anything.

[Holden Caulfield]

the appeal of skinhead culture, but it is pretty macho and sexist
on what basis do you make this assumption?

[black magick hustla]

on what basis do you make this assumption?

boots are hard wearing and good for kicking, cuffed jeans so the bottoms down get dirty or stood of and so they will last longer, short hair so if you get in a fight it won't get pulled,

:rolleyes:

[black magick hustla]

Subcultures don't really brand themselves as 'counter-culture'. Also subculture and counter-culture generally means different to the mainstream music, fashion. That's the pivitol parts of a subculture, not political oppostion to anything.

:shrugs: maybe you are right. I do still think it is silly though. pfffff

[Poum_1936]

i can see the appeal of skinhead culture, but it is pretty macho and sexist. I mean, I think it looks cool as fuck but I also think it is based around on BRAWLING and being a hardass which is dumb as hell.

It can be. Especially amongst the SHARP's Ive known. They do love a good boot party. Especially if they smell a bone head around. But thats the experince Ive had with them. Not to say thats the culture as a whole.


out of all the subcultures (im not part of any) skinhead is my personal favourite, looks good, working class roots, cheapish in the long run, good for not getting your arse kicked in

Cheapish? Cost wise? Not if you like Fred Perry or Ben Sherman. Unfortunately I know this, as I like the style of them. Granted if you do get a good pair of boots those will last forever. Especially how the Skins take care of their boots.

[The Douche]

on what basis do you make this assumption?

It definitely is, having been a skinhead and running with skinheads, RASH, SHARP, and patriotic ones. But, still good dudes (and girls on occasion).


good for not getting your arse kicked in

That all depends, being a redskin in the US can be pretty dangerous business at times. And I've been lucky to have pro-american right wing friends in the scene to keep me from getting into any trouble.

[Sprinkles]

we all voted old labour and were paid up members of trade unions and the young communists.
at the same time we went "paki hunting".
that is why you keep getting directed to fascist and nazi groups.
no apologies, that's the way it was, politics and political ideology, let alone personal experience are far more contradictory than a ny political or religious zealot is willing to tell you.

Seriously wtf?

Unless "paki hunting" means looking for a place to eat a karahi dish or some curry late at night that is really fucked up, especially if you're unapologetic about it.

Stuff like this only shows how fucking stupid these kind of utterly trite and shallow subcultural politics can be.

[The Douche]

Seriously wtf?

Unless "paki hunting" means looking for a place to eat a karahi dish or some curry late at night that is really fucked up, especially if you're unapologetic about it.

Stuff like this only shows how fucking stupid these kind of utterly trite and shallow subcultural politics can be.

This does not reflect the skinhead scene, not all original skins went out paki bashing.

Nor do any real skinheads today.

This guy obviously did and is now trying to justify it by saying "everybody was doing it".

[Hit The North]

oh mate, i'm an original, back when i was a little boy, versed in revolution at 11 years old (1968), skinheads were the original contradiction, we shaved our heads to demonstrate our working class origins as opposed to the hippie long hairs who were mainly middle and upper class.
we danced to reggae and tamla motown, our heroes were mainly west indian and we kicked bits out of each other on the football terraces, we all voted old labour and were paid up members of trade unions and the young communists.
at the same time we went "paki hunting".
that is why you keep getting directed to fascist and nazi groups.
no apologies, that's the way it was, politics and political ideology, let alone personal experience are far more contradictory than a ny political or religious zealot is willing to tell you.

No fucking apologies? How many kids did you and your racist mates terrify back then? How many heads did you kick in? Don't you think they deserve your apology?

[redarmyfaction38]

No fucking apologies? How many kids did you and your racist mates terrify back then? How many heads did you kick in? Don't you think they deserve your apology?
i wasn't then and am not now a racist, neither were most of the people in skinhead gangs, colour or race was an excuse for a fight not the reason for it.
that all changed once the fascists started targeting football fans in the 1970s, joining the nf was seen on the same level as supporting englands football team.
even then you would see hooligan gangs chanting racist slogans and turning to their black or pakistani mates and say "not you mate, you're one of us".
like i said in my original post, things are no way near as simple and clear cut as the political and religious accolites would have you believe.
and no i won't apologise for being a stupid working class teenager unaware of the potential harm in what i was doing, it's called making your own mistakes or growing up.
are you gonna apologise for having acne?

[black magick hustla]

lol, going "paki hunting" is not simple "working class stupidity". When I was a working class teenager in mexico, I didnt go indian hunting. Fuck you if you think racist violence is just some "teenage error".

[The Douche]

i wasn't then and am not now a racist, neither were most of the people in skinhead gangs, colour or race was an excuse for a fight not the reason for it.
that all changed once the fascists started targeting football fans in the 1970s, joining the nf was seen on the same level as supporting englands football team.
even then you would see hooligan gangs chanting racist slogans and turning to their black or pakistani mates and say "not you mate, you're one of us".
like i said in my original post, things are no way near as simple and clear cut as the political and religious accolites would have you believe.
and no i won't apologise for being a stupid working class teenager unaware of the potential harm in what i was doing, it's called making your own mistakes or growing up.
are you gonna apologise for having acne?

I've met talked to plenty of original skins who were not racist and never engaged in any racial or nationalist violence.

You fucked up, don't make excuses for it. We all make mistakes, there is nothing wrong with saying you were a moron and you did stupid, horrible things, as long as you don't do them anymore and you don't think that way anymore.

[Vanguard1917]

like i said in my original post, things are no way near as simple and clear cut as the political and religious accolites would have you believe.
and no i won't apologise for being a stupid working class teenager unaware of the potential harm in what i was doing, it's called making your own mistakes or growing up.
are you gonna apologise for having acne?

Your tone and choice of language can be interpreted as you trivialising the racist violence which immigrant communities suffered, as though 'Paki bashing' in Britain was somehow just a normal part of growing up (like acne), when it was in reality an attempt to terrorise immigrant communities.

I don't care if you apologise or not (something which is pretty meaningless either way), as long as you recognise the severity of it all.

[redarmyfaction38]

I've met talked to plenty of original skins who were not racist and never engaged in any racial or nationalist violence.

You fucked up, don't make excuses for it. We all make mistakes, there is nothing wrong with saying you were a moron and you did stupid, horrible things, as long as you don't do them anymore and you don't think that way anymore.
that is what i said, but i wasn't a racist and don't have to apologise for it.
in fact, being dark skinned, i had been subjected to racist abuse by people who should have known better, my mum had to go into my primary school and deal with my english teacher who told me, "foreigners shouldn't expect an education".
now i'm as english as english is, but i've been called "nigger" more times than i can remember.
so being racist has never been an option for me.
the point you and others are missing is that life for us working class as we grow up is contradictory, we have "social groupings" that teach us solidarity within the group, we also have outside influences that encourage "intolerant attitudes" to those outside our group.
or have you missed "mods" and "rockers", "skins" and "hippies", "football hooliganism", "chavs" and "emos"?

[redarmyfaction38]

lol, going "paki hunting" is not simple "working class stupidity". When I was a working class teenager in mexico, I didnt go indian hunting. Fuck you if you think racist violence is just some "teenage error".
the truth of it was....there was no actual violence....this is some 40 years ago and it was england....nobody apart from psychos actually killed anybody.... the immigrant community was tiny and mostly west indian as they were called then (afro caribean) to you.. it was teenage kicks ffs!
now i'm quite willing to accept that in mexico you working class immigrants don't go indian chasing and think its acceptable but your ruling class forefathers did to the point of extermination of the native indian.
now, should i blame you for the kind of racist imperialist thinking that drove the subjugation of the native american? or not?
and yes it was just teenage stupidity, it was a reflection of the age i was brought up in with all its contradictions, why is that so hard for you to understand?
your applying 21st century political correctness and denial of the human condition to 1970s conditions.
its bullshit.
i still wont apologise.

[redarmyfaction38]

Your tone and choice of language can be interpreted as you trivialising the racist violence which immigrant communities suffered, as though 'Paki bashing' in Britain was somehow just a normal part of growing up (like acne), when it was in reality an attempt to terrorise immigrant communities.

I don't care if you apologise or not (something which is pretty meaningless either way), as long as you recognise the severity of it all.
if you choose to read my post that way then it reflects your preconceptions.
it has nothing to do with my last post or my original post.
both of which were about explaining the contradictions of political allegiance and personal behaviour and the influence of the dominant political ideology.
all of which went way above your head because i put it in personal terms rather than quoting your chosen messiah.
all of which are apparent in the teachings of lenin and trotsky.
like the bourgeouisie, you don't have to believe me or them.
your fucking choice.
i'm the sum total of everything i've done up until today, tomorrow i'll be somebody else.

[Plagueround]

the truth of it was....there was no actual violence

What was the point of "paki hunting" then? Did you find them and observe them with binoculars, did you approach them and take them out for ice cream, or did you hassle them physically or verbally?


it was teenage kicks ffs!I'm sure the victims thought so.


now i'm quite willing to accept that in mexico you working class immigrants don't go indian chasing and think its acceptable but your ruling class forefathers did to the point of extermination of the native indian.
now, should i blame you for the kind of racist imperialist thinking that drove the subjugation of the native american? or not?What is your point here exactly? A willing participation in the racially motivated singling out of a person is the same as being born in a nation where the indigenous population was oppressed or killed? (And we weren't quite exterminated...almost though. :( )


and yes it was just teenage stupidity, it was a reflection of the age i was brought up in with all its contradictions, why is that so hard for you to understand?
your applying 21st century political correctness and denial of the human condition to 1970s conditions.
its bullshit.
i still wont apologise.It would be bullshit to assume people acted with the same mindset we do now. It would not be bullshit to ask that you recognize those actions were wrong and amounted to more than just teenage pranks, especially for those on the receiving end.

[The Douche]

the truth of it was....there was no actual violence....this is some 40 years ago and it was england....nobody apart from psychos actually killed anybody.... the immigrant community was tiny and mostly west indian as they were called then (afro caribean) to you.. it was teenage kicks ffs!
now i'm quite willing to accept that in mexico you working class immigrants don't go indian chasing and think its acceptable but your ruling class forefathers did to the point of extermination of the native indian.
now, should i blame you for the kind of racist imperialist thinking that drove the subjugation of the native american? or not?
and yes it was just teenage stupidity, it was a reflection of the age i was brought up in with all its contradictions, why is that so hard for you to understand?
your applying 21st century political correctness and denial of the human condition to 1970s conditions.
its bullshit.
i still wont apologise.

Let me get this straight...you won't apologize for attacking people based on thier ethnic backround?


we have "social groupings" that teach us solidarity within the group, we also have outside influences that encourage "intolerant attitudes" to those outside our group.
or have you missed "mods" and "rockers", "skins" and "hippies", "football hooliganism", "chavs" and "emos"?

Might've disliked or been unkind to people outside my social group, but I never hit a kid just for being different than me. Especially if he was different in a way he couldn't choose, like race.

[redarmyfaction38]

What was the point of "paki hunting" then? Did you find them and observe them with binoculars, did you approach them and take them out for ice cream, or did you hassle them physically or verbally?

I'm sure the victims thought so.

What is your point here exactly? A willing participation in the racially motivated singling out of a person is the same as being born in a nation where the indigenous population was oppressed or killed? (And we weren't quite exterminated...almost though. :( )

It would be bullshit to assume people acted with the same mindset we do now. It would not be bullshit to ask that you recognize those actions were wrong and amounted to more than just teenage pranks, especially for those on the receiving end.
look, i honestly accept your concerns, but, the whole concept of "paki hunting" was ridiculous, the "immigrants" were all "west indian", the only "pakis", where i lived were in the newspapers.
and those "newspaper pakis" were victims of the "socialist dictator in uganda", idi amin to you., according to the papers.
look, in all honesty, all i ever try to do,when i post on this or any other message board is point out the contradictions that each and everyone of us are subject to, i'm probably too honest, i go "this is what i've done, some of it was "good" some of it was stupid" these are the reasons i did it.
i've learnt the hard way, i've done all the stupid shit, but i've never been a racist, racism just doesn't make sense to me.
i honestly don't understand why anybody would be racist.
thats why i didn't join the nf, that's why i fought the fuck wits on the streets, it doesn't change anything which i told you though, that is the way it was.
yours or my political convictions/ideology cant change the past.
if they could, lenin wouldn't have been shot and the soviet union would have been a soviet union

[Mujer Libre]

look, i honestly accept your concerns, but, the whole concept of "paki hunting" was ridiculous, the "immigrants" were all "west indian", the only "pakis", where i lived were in the newspapers.
And yet there was somehow loads of violence and abuse directed at South Asian immigrants?

I notice that your story has changed. First, you and your mates went "paki hunting" and now, there were no "paki's" where you lived. Which is it?


and those "newspaper pakis" were victims of the "socialist dictator in uganda", idi amin to you., according to the papers.
Sorry, what does this have to do with anything? This misrepresentation makes racist violence okay?


look, in all honesty, all i ever try to do,when i post on this or any other message board is point out the contradictions that each and everyone of us are subject to, i'm probably too honest, i go "this is what i've done, some of it was "good" some of it was stupid" these are the reasons i did it.Yes, but then you go on to defend racist violence you committed. Whether you considered yourself a racist or not is frankly immaterial. You participated in racist actions. You perpetuated racism in your community.

You should be sorry.


i've learnt the hard way, i've done all the stupid shit, but i've never been a racist, racism just doesn't make sense to me.I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black. Yup.

You know, if you hadn't defended your actions, we wouldn't have an issue here.

[redarmyfaction38]

And yet there was somehow loads of violence and abuse directed at South Asian immigrants?

I notice that your story has changed. First, you and your mates went "paki hunting" and now, there were no "paki's" where you lived. Which is it?


Sorry, what does this have to do with anything? This misrepresentation makes racist violence okay?

Yes, but then you go on to defend racist violence you committed. Whether you considered yourself a racist or not is frankly immaterial. You participated in racist actions. You perpetuated racism in your community.

You should be sorry.

I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black. Yup.

You know, if you hadn't defended your actions, we wouldn't have an issue here.
read my original post, i was a young working class youth, my friends were members or supporters of the labour party and the young communist league.
yet, at the same time, as working class youths, accepted violence as a recreational past time.
as i've repeatedly pointed out, racial or even political differences weren't seen as a reason for violence, they were an excuse for it.
which bit of that, don't you understand?
do you have any concept at all of how working class children were brought up in the late sixties and seventies?
do you have any concept of the prevailing prejudices, not just in the working class, but in the labour and trade union movement in those times?
i would guess, by the judgemental nature of some of the posters, you have not.
you seem to miss as rev.lefts a fundamental shift in the consciousness of the average worker/labour party/communist party supporter that occurred in the 1970s in britain.
youth and workers tired of the failure of the labour party to deliver reforms and the communist party to deliver revolution were being split two ways, there was the international socialists or the national front.
interestingly,the national front sounded more like communists than the cpgb, their economic platform was far to the "left" of reformist labour.
their racism was their undoing.
the international socialists, the wrp, swp and militants were their undoing.
you owe every right you enjoy, all the equality and equal opportunities legislation to them.
they won you those rights and privileges through opposition to the capitalist state,through prescence in working class communities and through the violence necessary to confront the fascists and capitalist state.
as for the paki hunting bit, it happened, but it wasn't real, there were no paKIS to be hunted, which bit of that don't you understand?
britain in the '60s and '70s was largely white and indigenous.
the "immigrant threat" then, like now imo, was a creation of the capitalist media and racist propaganda, w hich bit of that did you miss?
i've hit "fuck you!".
my original post has been taken entirely out of context, posters have imagined racial prejudice where there is none, posters have attacked experience and honesty as some kind of apologist political agenda, i find i'm justifying myself to fortunate individuals that have apparently been brought up in lovig households and communities where violence has never been used against the as children or adults, where they have never experienced contradictory information being fed to them by people who supposedly share their ideology.
in fact to me, it seems they live in a perfect world far removed from my own.
here's an interesting up to date not old fart fact.
in the school where i work, "kes" is the chosen play for the next drama production.
there is a scene where the main character gets caned, the young people were stunned/appalled/sick and cried when this was acted out.
it was as normal as recreational violence when i was a child.
that is not an apology.
think about it.
ffs!
and when you've thought about it, run off to the swp, the wrp, the miltant and the rest of the international socialists and thank them very much for the work they did amongst us working class.

[Pogue]

I know loads of people who were brought up in the 60s and 70s, were working class and voted Old Labour etc etc but didn't go 'Paki bashing'. Being a working class youth back then over here did not mean you'd automatically be a walking contradiction who hated Asian people. Stop trying to justify yourself by saying that its what everyone did because thats simply not true.

[Coggeh]

all subcultures are silly
Seconded....

[redarmyfaction38]

I know loads of people who were brought up in the 60s and 70s, were working class and voted Old Labour etc etc but didn't go 'Paki bashing'. Being a working class youth back then over here did not mean you'd automatically be a walking contradiction who hated Asian people. Stop trying to justify yourself by saying that its what everyone did because thats simply not true.
ffs!
i'm not "justifying" anything.
i'm trying desperately to explain attitudes and contradictions of political consciousness that were prevalent when i was a CHILD.
unlike some of the "revolutionaries" on here, i don't actually hate anybody, not even supporters of the bnp, i might hate the shit they believe in, but i don't hate them, they are people like me, spoon fed bullshit and false values.
as for the i know bit, people have selective memories, there were strikes and demonstrations supported by the trade unions against immigrant labour during the '70s. that happened.
it was the international socialists and certain comrades in the cpgb that managed to cut across that racist agenda.
the cpgb at that time followed moscows line and was closer to the programe of britains national front than it was to any "socialist" programme.
again that's the way it was.
why should anybody apologise?

[redarmyfaction38]

ffs!
i'm not "justifying" anything.
i'm trying desperately to explain attitudes and contradictions of political consciousness that were prevalent when i was a CHILD.
unlike some of the "revolutionaries" on here, i don't actually hate anybody, not even supporters of the bnp, i might hate the shit they believe in, but i don't hate them, they are people like me, spoon fed bullshit and false values.
as for the i know bit, people have selective memories, there were strikes and demonstrations supported by the trade unions against immigrant labour during the '70s. that happened.
it was the international socialists and certain comrades in the cpgb that managed to cut across that racist agenda.
the cpgb at that time followed moscows line and was closer to the programe of britains national front than it was to any "socialist" programme.
again that's the way it was.
why should anybody apologise?
i'm out of this argument, it wasn't an argument until someone couldn't accept that the world was different before they were born and couldn't accept that values change, nor could they accept that for millions of children violence was part of their upbringing, you got caned at school, beaten at home, bullied in the playground and joined the forces when your lack of education left you with no other option.
SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM/ANARCHISM is only possible when the disaffected, the proletariat, the working class actually have the courage to seize the future.
listening to some of the posts on here, stalinism is more likely.
ffs!

[Pogue]

Stop screaming ffs and throwing stupid insults at us and realise that you made some bad choices which you should feel ashamed of.

[freakazoid]

I think the point he is trying to make is that they didn't go, "Hey. I hate Pakistanians so lets all go paki hunting." It was, "I want to fight. The new thing around is paki hunting, lets kick some ass." It was fighting just to fight.

[benhur]

that is what i said, but i wasn't a racist and don't have to apologise for it.
in fact, being dark skinned, i had been subjected to racist abuse by people who should have known better, my mum had to go into my primary school and deal with my english teacher who told me, "foreigners shouldn't expect an education".
now i'm as english as english is, but i've been called "nigger" more times than i can remember.

I don't get this. You say you are dark-skinned, then how did they let you become a member of the skinhead gang?:confused:

[Comrada J]

'Paki hunting' is NOT OK, no matter how you try and twist it. This is exactly why people associate skinheads with Nazis and white supremacists.

[The Douche]

I think the point he is trying to make is that they didn't go, "Hey. I hate Pakistanians so lets all go paki hunting." It was, "I want to fight. The new thing around is paki hunting, lets kick some ass." It was fighting just to fight.

Come on now, racial violence is wrong whether he did it because he's a racist or whether he did it because it was the trend. He still committed acts of racial violence and refuses to apologize, and doesn't see why an apology is necessary since "everybody did it". Which is not true, there are plenty of people who gre up in the 70s who were not racist, and there are plenty of original skins who didn't attack immigrants.


I don't get this. You say you are dark-skinned, then how did they let you become a member of the skinhead gang?:confused:

Some of my friends or jewish, asian, and black, and they're all skinheads and communists/anarchists.

[redarmyfaction38]

Stop screaming ffs and throwing stupid insults at us and realise that you made some bad choices which you should feel ashamed of.
i apologise for any insults.
ffs! comes from my apparent inability to get my point across.

[redarmyfaction38]

I think the point he is trying to make is that they didn't go, "Hey. I hate Pakistanians so lets all go paki hunting." It was, "I want to fight. The new thing around is paki hunting, lets kick some ass." It was fighting just to fight.
that is the truth of it,
and i will admit it was born out of ignorance, which i also tried to get across but felt too much under personal attack to explain properly it seems.

[redarmyfaction38]

I don't get this. You say you are dark-skinned, then how did they let you become a member of the skinhead gang?:confused:
because the original skinheads were not racists, they were working class youths in love with ska.
the racism arrived much later, which i've also tried and failed to explain.
it was second time round skinheads that were recruited into fascist gangs.
i can recommend "this england" as a movie that shows the economic and social conditions that allowed this to happen.

[redarmyfaction38]

'Paki hunting' is NOT OK, no matter how you try and twist it. This is exactly why people associate skinheads with Nazis and white supremacists.
you're right of course, but, racial prejudice wasn't the motivation with the original skinheads.
racism and nationalism became associated with skinheads in the 1980s.
before that it was just a "boys game" like football and gang violence.
i've a feeling i'm using terms and trying to explain things you don't understand.
i don't say that derogatory, it's just a gap in experience? or language?

[freakazoid]

Come on now, racial violence is wrong whether he did it because he's a racist or whether he did it because it was the trend. He still committed acts of racial violence and refuses to apologize, and doesn't see why an apology is necessary since "everybody did it". Which is not true, there are plenty of people who gre up in the 70s who were not racist, and there are plenty of original skins who didn't attack immigrants.

I'm not excusing him for it. I'm just saying that it sounds like they didn't care about race.

Also what does "ffs" mean?

[redarmyfaction38]

I'm not excusing him for it. I'm just saying that it sounds like they didn't care about race.

Also what does "ffs" mean?
for fucks sake.
another is tff.. thank fuck its friday:D

[freakazoid]

Ohhh, got ya. Thanks. :)

[The Douche]

I'm not excusing him for it. I'm just saying that it sounds like they didn't care about race.

Also what does "ffs" mean?

If it wasn't about race it wouldn't have been "paki bashing" huh?

[Patchd]

Sorry to dig this up, was looking at a few old profiles and saw this thread, I remember it actually. :p

I still call for you to apologise for this, ethnically I'm half Chinese, and back when I was younger I used to bully a Japanese boy in school, the only reason being that he was Japanese. It was irrational Chinese nationalism, and was racist, even if you just went around "paki bashing" and thought you weren't being racist, your actions were racially motivated, would you have "paki bashed" a pale skinned person with a Yorkshire accent? Probably not, so what distinguishes "paki bashing" from fighting in general, I'd have to say either colour, or ethnicity.

I've apologised to my (now) mate, who I used to bully, and I still feel bad about that past, yes it was irrational, yes I did it when I was younger, a time when people generally do do irrational things. But whether it was me being a silly little Chinese Nationalist or not doesn't remove the fact that I caused distress and at times harm to this person, as well as stirring up hate. No one here is asking you to apologise for being an irrational working class kid, what they're asking for you to apologise about is for making someone's life utter hell, or being part of a group which did so.

[Pogue]

Lol as its been dragged up

The thing is, if you were in Communist Youth, anti-NF & Redskin who also went 'paki-bashing', but were 'dark-skinned' you were pretty confused and also in a minority that was probably confined to you.

I know people who were involved with the Communists, anti-NF and were into the skin culture who went out fascist-bashing, and would never dream of going 'paki-bashing', and I think you must have been very very confused to not see the contradiction.

[Communist Theory]

I'm a skinhead. Not a neo-nazi bonehead but a skinhead. I love reggae and punk rock and all kinds of shit.

but WHY is it that I can't look up skinhead on the internet without there being abunch of shit about nazis come up?

is there a place where I can find REAL Skins or Redskins and not fascists?
Whats a Redskin?

[Pogue]

Whats a Redskin?

Left wing anarchist/communist skinhead.

[Communist Theory]

Why do neo nazis shave their heads? Something to do with not having blonde hair?

[Patchd]

Some say they're tracing their origins back to the days in Hitler's Wehrmacht when some divisions had shaved heads, and the SAs, some of whom also had shaved heads. It's a lot of bollocks though, the truth is Neo-Nazi skins hijacked the movement back in the late 70s to 80s, obviously, the media would rather kick up a fuss about a working class subculture being "specifically racist", again another lie.

The reason why skins do keep their hair short (it's not always completely shaven off) is because it contrasted the mainly middle class hippy haircut, that being long, unkept, scraggy etc. It was a sign of being working class, obviously, if you work down the mines, or in the docks, or in some factory, you can't really keep long hair as it would get in the way too often.

[Pogue]

Some say they're tracing their origins back to the days in Hitler's Wehrmacht when some divisions had shaved heads, and the SAs, some of whom also had shaved heads. It's a lot of bollocks though, the truth is Neo-Nazi skins hijacked the movement back in the late 70s to 80s, obviously, the media would rather kick up a fuss about a working class subculture being "specifically racist", again another lie.

The reason why skins do keep their hair short (it's not always completely shaven off) is because it contrasted the mainly middle class hippy haircut, that being long, unkept, scraggy etc. It was a sign of being working class, obviously, if you work down the mines, or in the docks, or in some factory, you can't really keep long hair as it would get in the way too often.

This basically. Some sources also sya Skinheads had short hair because it meant it was easier to fight as it didn't ge tin your way and people couldn't grab it, but I think this might be a bit of a myth and the one relating to it being useful in the workplace makes more sense.

[Holden Caulfield]

This basically. Some sources also sya Skinheads had short hair because it meant it was easier to fight as it didn't ge tin your way and people couldn't grab it, but I think this might be a bit of a myth and the one relating to it being useful in the workplace makes more sense.

skinhead as a way of dressing is pretty much just smart utilitarian and hardwearing stuff. So short hair, hardwearing boots (working class links to many skins being construction workers) smart shirts etc.

having short hair is also partly becasue it can't be pulled in a fight (skinheads being seen as 'hard mods') but not first and foremost.

There is a skinheads thread in antifa forum if somebody wants to dig it out, i forget what is even in it