The Patriot Act - What do our cappie chums think?

[CubanFox]

LL, GW, DC...what do you think of the idea to repeal civil liberties for the War on Terror?


(Edited by CubanFox at 12:32 pm on May 11, 2003)

[Voice of Reason]

its bull and I dont trust it.

[Totalitarian]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Our freedoms is at stake from the scourge of terrorist evil who hate the west for its freedom. This is not the time for questioning authority, it is a New and Improved America now. If you're not with the enlightened and benevolent Federal Government, you're with the terrorists!

[commie kg]

Quote: from Totalitarian on 9:32 pm on May 10, 2003
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Our freedoms is at stake from the scourge of terrorist evil who hate the west for its freedom. This is not the time for questioning authority, it is a New and Improved America now. If you're not with the enlightened and benevolent Federal Government, you're with the terrorists!

I can't tell if that was supposed to be sarcastic, or if you really believe that crap.

[Ghost Writer]

"what do you think of Ashcroft's idea to repeal civil liberties"

Again, you are trying to atttribute this law to Ashcroft. Why don't you do me a favor and look up the original sponsors of the bill? At least then you could quit unfairly assigning this idea to Ashcroft. Hell, perhaps you could even learn something in the process. Why don't you educate yourself about how a bill becomes a law, and the role that judicial review plays in determining the constitutionality of of a bill passed by congress and signed into law by the president.

[CubanFox]

Ok, GW, I've edited the original post. Now reply to it.

[Ghost Writer]

Why don't you tell me which civil liberties are being eroded. Essentially, I want your analysis of this law before I give you mine.

[CubanFox]

Well, the FBI can look at lists of what you've borrowed from the library, have bought from bookshops, can raid your house, take your stuff, tow your car, and hold you indefinately, all without warrant or charge, and they can keep immigrants locked up as long as they want. A police state, essentially.

[Urban Rubble]

Not only that but there is now a list you can be put on that will get you a mandatory search at the airport simply for criticizing the war or whatever the government deems "suspicious".

[weepingbuddha]

sounds like a strong step towards 1984.

[Urban Rubble]

Sounds like a strong step towards Nazi Germany.

[T Blair]

Sounds like a strong step towards preventing future terrorist attacks...

I support the act 100%.

[Vegan Zeal]

Blair..you are kidding right?

[CubanFox]

My thoughts exactly.

[T Blair]

NO.

I though Communists were big on repealing civil liberties.

You cats should crown this an ideological victory.

[Sabocat]

Think about the Patriot Act...then think about this list.

Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism
which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine, a journal of humanist thought.
Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini
(Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He
found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls these the> identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is "Fascism Anyone?,"
Lawrence Britt, Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20.

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing
and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture,
summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people
are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a
perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities;
liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government
funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military
service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost
exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender
roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is
homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by
the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by
government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.
Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool
by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common
from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are
diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy
of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into
power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and
power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is
the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either
eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It
is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even
arrested. Free _expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments
often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are
often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in
the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with
virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are
governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to
government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect
their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes
for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even
outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a
complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns
against or even assassination of opposition candidat es, use of
legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries,
and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their
judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.