Imortal techneque - why the fuss

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Hes a religous anti abortionist new world order nut. Why do people act as if he is super progressive?

[Oneironaut]

Hes a religous anti abortionist new world order nut. Why do people act as if he is super progressive?

Where did you find this out? He says in some songs how he once was a christian but then realized the absurdity of it... and i never knew he was anti-abortion.

[Pirate Utopian]

Plus he's constantly saying the same thing in every song wich makes his already bland music (where all the beats are the same, some piano and drums in a loop for 5 minutes straight) even more boring to listen to.

[Oneironaut]

Plus he's constantly saying the same thing in every song wich makes his already bland music (where all the beats are the same, some piano and drums in a loop for 5 minutes straight) even more boring to listen to.

I like his raps though. "Obnoxious" is a great one to play for unsuspecting listeners.

[Fawkes]

He sucks at rapping. He never changes his flow and his beats are all the same. On top of that, almost all of the kids in my school that like him are preppy and/or hippie rich kids that are going to go see the free concert he's putting on at the University of Connecticut in a few weeks. What a fucking joke.

[Oneironaut]

He sucks at rapping. He never changes his flow and his beats are all the same. On top of that, almost all of the kids in my school that like him are preppy and/or hippie rich kids that are going to go see the free concert he's putting on at the University of Connecticut in a few weeks. What a fucking joke.

Well I would hope he would call out the above mentioned kids at the show. Most people I know who listen to him are working class. Those who don't like him that I know say he is much too abrasive. But my question still hasn't been answered... where does he ever say that he is a religious pro-lifer? I know he may have alluded to it when he criticizes pro-lifers that support the death penalty but I never took it that he himself was a "true" pro-lifer.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Ok he says he made "peace with the lord" in one of his songs and he things about somone "Killing his son with a coathanger"

[Oneironaut]

Ok he says he made "peace with the lord" in one of his songs and he things about somone "Killing his son with a coathanger"

While he may have made "peace with the lord" I am not going to persecute him for that. Let's be honest, he is Peruvian. It'll be a while coming for atheism to take hold in Latin American culture. That song where he says "killing his song with a coathanger" is called Obnoxious. IMO it is written solely for shock effect with very little of his personal beliefs. He says in the same song if "you want to make it a personal issue i'll hijack a plane and fly it into your house". It's not meant to be a statement of what he believes.

[Oneironaut]

From Wikipedia:


"Immortal Technique provides listeners of his music with his views on politics, sociology, and religion. Many of his views align closely with Socialism, and empowering the common people, as can be heard in multiple songs, including "The Poverty of Philosophy" from Revolutionary Vol. 1, a reference to the book authored by Karl Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx). He tackles many modern political and social issues in his songs, addressing events such as the killing of the prominent Black Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party) member Fred Hampton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton) by the FBI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation), 9/11, the shooting of Amadou Diallo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo) by the NYPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department), Palestinian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian) rights in Israel, and the CIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) backed killing of revolutionary leader and doctor Che Guevara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara) – to name but a few. He has described himself as a "socialist guerrilla". Immortal Technique's music is inspired by historical and often political figures such as Malcolm X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X), Che Guevara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara), César Chávez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9sar_Ch%C3%A1vez), Augusto César Sandino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_C%C3%A9sar_Sandino), Marcus Garvey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Garvey), and Túpac Amaru II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BApac_Amaru_II).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Technique#cite_note-LR-8)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Immortal_technique.jpg) Immortal Technique talks about South America and US politics on Al Jazeera News [10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Technique#cite_note-9)



Immortal Technique is also a co-founder of the Grassroots Artists MovEment (G.A.ME), which provides healthcare for the underground artists with whom it works."



He seems to be in our side. Not to mention his sick ass album cover!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/Revolutionary_Vol_1.jpg

[deLarge]

I can't quite remember the song, but I *do* remember he, at one point, referred to the right of abortion.

[Rex0230]

I liked him 'till I found out that he's a muslim :( tho I still listen' to him occasionally. I dunno why there's only a few atheist rappers :confused:
BTW is Boots Riley atheist?

[Labor Shall Rule]

I liked him 'till I found out that he's a muslim :( tho I still listen' to him occasionally. I dunno why there's only a few atheist rappers :confused:
BTW is Boots Riley atheist?

Yes.

[Sasha]

I liked him 'till I found out that he's a muslim :(

whats wrong with being an muslim? he doesn't preach or trys to convert and he seems respectfull for other ppls believes (athiest or not) so whats the problem?
Keny Arkana is muslim and she is defently my favorite artist on this moment (see the youtube video in my signature).
i think religous people can be valuable comrades.

[cleef]

I can't quite remember the song, but I *do* remember he, at one point, referred to the right of abortion.

its in 'cause of death' and goes something along the lines of

and as a matter of fact, Rumsfeld, now that I think back
without 9/11, you couldn't have a war in Iraq
Or a Defense budget of world conquest proportions
Kill freedom of speech and revoke the right to abortions

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

whats wrong with being an muslim?

Islam is a sexist , homophobic piece of shit for starters

[ifeelyou]

Islam is a sexist , homophobic piece of shit for starters

you seem so intelligent :confused:

[Sasha]

Islam is a sexist , homophobic piece of shit for starters

your revolution will be so lonely....

i'm not religious but i'll defend anybodys right to believe what the hell they want, as long i'm also allowed to disagree with them.

your statement, wich basicly comes down to calling every muslim sexist and homophobic is not only ignorant but also quite francly discriminative/racist in itself.

you're talking about an faith with 1 bilion folowers, thats 20% of the worldpopulation that you discard in one sentence.

christianity can be homophobic and sexist, would you say that the many christians under our south-amarican comrades are all sexist an homphobic?

judeaism can be seen as sexist and homphobic, but then why did i meet an FEMALE LESBIAN RABI only last week.

and just to prove how must you generalise, ever heard about the alevi?
its a islamic faith with milions of followers wich even has been called marxist-humanist by some, here are their 3 key principles:

Love and respect for all people (“The important thing is not religion, but being a human being”)
Tolerance towards other religions and ethnic groups (“If you hurt another person, the ritual prayers you have done are counted as worthless”)
Respect for working people ("The greatest act of worship is to work”)
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi)

sounds not so sexist and homophobic to me....

[Oneironaut]

Islam is a sexist , homophobic piece of shit for starters

and christianity isn't?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

and christianity isn't?

Of course it is!

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

you seem so intelligent :confused:

Why thank you.


your revolution will be so lonely....


What because those who partake in honor killings wont like it?
(also for the record for it to be a revolution it needs a majority backing or its a coup)

Damn right they wont like it. Chances are the amount of those people will decrease but those who do wish to continue barbaric practices will hate it( im not saying i support the killing of Muslims because there Muslims but i will support removing there superstitious crap from public and any crime such as honor killings should be dealt with the execution of the offender.



i'm not religious but i'll defend anybodys right to believe what the hell they want, as long i'm also allowed to disagree with them.

They can believe whatever they want. What they do however will bother me.


your statement, wich basicly comes down to calling every muslim sexist and homophobic is not only ignorant but also quite francly discriminative/racist in itself.

This shit pisses me off
Being intolerant of religion does not make one a racist

and any Muslim who takes his religion seriously is a homophobic sexist arsehole.




you're talking about an faith with 1 bilion folowers, thats 20% of the worldpopulation that you discard in one sentence.

I am not going to tiptoe round issues i dislike (read : hate) because alot of people like them



christianity can be homophobic and sexist, would you say that the many christians under our south-amarican comrades are all sexist an homphobic?

Not all. ALOT and they would be alot better if they stopped with the religious shit.



judeaism can be seen as sexist and homphobic, but then why did i meet an FEMALE LESBIAN RABI only last week.

Fuck knows.

But its sure as hell that she fits her religion to suit herself. And nevertheless she still has a reactionary purpose.



and just to prove how must you generalise, ever heard about the alevi?

Well i have now.





its a islamic faith with milions of followers wich even has been called marxist-humanist by some, here are their 3 key principles:

Yes an obama has being called a marxist by some , so that scores 0 points with me.



Love and respect for all people (“The important thing is not religion, but being a human being”)

Bullshit I have not respect or love for people such as murdoch and neo-nazis. Infact i would quite happily see them burn to death. (well prehaps not some of the neo-nazis who are just kids brought in though peer preausure)


Tolerance towards other religions and ethnic groups (“If you hurt another person, the ritual prayers you have done are counted as worthless”)
Respect for working people ("The greatest act of worship is to work”)
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi)

Im sure that counts for alot materilly


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi)




sounds not so sexist and homophobic to me....

Sounds shit.

[Wanted Man]

I liked him 'till I found out that he's a muslim
What's wrong with muslims?

[Black Dagger]

He sucks at rapping. He never changes his flow and his beats are all the same. On top of that, almost all of the kids in my school that like him are preppy and/or hippie rich kids that are going to go see the free concert he's putting on at the University of Connecticut in a few weeks. What a fucking joke.

Not to mention his homo/transphobic lyrics.

I dunno, i'm a hip-hop-head but i kind of expect sexism and especially homophobia when i listen (which sucks), some times you've really just gotta turn it off - it's frustrating, but often i just feel too uncomfortable to enjoy the music if someone is basically insulting me to my face. It's like the end of 'I Don't Give a Fuck' by Tupac - great song, totally needless homophobic slur at the end (it's an anti-racist song to boot!), or a classic like, 'The Message'. It's sucks, but (unfortunately!) musicians are not inherently progressive - especially the good ones.


What's wrong with muslims?

You're being very selective with your quotes there, after that he said:


I liked him 'till I found out that he's a muslim :( tho I still listen' to him occasionally. I dunno why there's only a few atheist rappers.

When you read the whole paragraph i think it's pretty obvious he was not singling out muslims, but rather religious rappers generally. As he is an atheist, the preaching of some religious rappers probably bothers him. As an atheist myself i can certainly empathise, some KRS-One stuff is kinda like that. Where in one breath he is criticising the christian conception of god and its use as a tool of european colonialism and in the next, he is advocating his own conception of a better 'god', urgh.

That said, probably my favourite artist of all-time is Bob Marley - who was a religious zealot, weed helps.

[Patchd]

i'm not religious but i'll defend anybodys right to believe what the hell they want, as long i'm also allowed to disagree with them.
Lol, I won't especially if they support any discriminatory act. For example, homophobia.


your statement, wich basicly comes down to calling every muslim sexist and homophobic is not only ignorant but also quite francly discriminative/racist in itself.
Its discrimination against a religion, religion is a choice, last I checked, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism or any other religion wasn't a gene to be passed down biologically. Religion is not race.

And I believe Joe stated Islam (as a religion), not its people, is a fucking poor start for anyone.


you're talking about an faith with 1 bilion folowers, thats 20% of the worldpopulation that you discard in one sentence.
And officially, they discard 10% of the world's population in their holy book. Although I do know some gay muslims too.


christianity can be homophobic and sexist, would you say that the many christians under our south-amarican comrades are all sexist an homphobic?
Some, if not most.


judeaism can be seen as sexist and homphobic, but then why did i meet an FEMALE LESBIAN RABI only last week.
Because she was probably a liberal Jew, there are denominations in almost all religions ya know ;)

[Sasha]

there are denominations in almost all religions ya know ;)

well thank you, you seem to stumble on my main point that Joe so clearly missed.
i argue that
a. mostly the atroceties are the denominations and not the decent people and
b. even if they werent the good people shouldn't be discarded so easyli as some ppl here did.

the fact that some ppl see in their very big religion (and its huge, with many diffrent strands and not an small sect with only one truth) the right to do horrible stuff and excuses world views i cant agree with, doesn't mean that the the religion in question is intrisic sexist, homphobic, in favor of honoury killings (wich by the way is an CULTURAL phenomonon not an religious one) etc etc. and by claiming it does you take an ignorant biggotry stand.

And yes i will call it racist by lack of an better word, Joe clearly denies the cultural aspect of having an faith (espacelly that of muslims whose culture is even more based on the group in stead of the individual).
and the fact that you are nuanced and even do (rightly) regonize the cultural aspect in the case of some neo-nazi's

well prehaps not some of the neo-nazis who are just kids brought in though peer preausure
shows to me that you do in fact hold some un-regonised white supremacist views.

one muslim can't be held acountable for sucide bombers or female opression no more than i as an leftist can be held acountable for the massmurders of the stalinist.

If someone is an Wahabit he is off-course of my list of potential comrades/allies as long he is an firm believer, an alevit or an immigrant kid that goes to the mosque twice a year on the big hollidays is not.

and two side points

a. in my experience most muslims (overhere) ARE way more tollerant of people that they don't agree with than the white working class and are more willing to work together on the stuff that binds us (i might be an godless atheist and sleep with men but the only thing that matters to them is the fact that we both want social change and respect and they will work with me on that and they will shake my hand and call me their friend and be sincere about it)

B. i dont know imortal technique so i cant realy give an infomed opinion on him as an person/artist.

[Wanted Man]

You're being very selective with your quotes there, after that he said:



When you read the whole paragraph i think it's pretty obvious he was not singling out muslims, but rather religious rappers generally. As he is an atheist, the preaching of some religious rappers probably bothers him. As an atheist myself i can certainly empathise, some KRS-One stuff is kinda like that. Where in one breath he is criticising the christian conception of god and its use as a tool of european colonialism and in the next, he is advocating his own conception of a better 'god', urgh.
I understand your point, but it's still a stupid thing to say. "I liked him until I found out he was a muslim", as if simply being a muslim means that person should automatically be dismissed.


Lol, I won't especially if they support any discriminatory act. For example, homophobia.
Okay, then I guess your "right" to discriminate against muslims should also be assailed.


Its discrimination against a religion, religion is a choice, last I checked, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism or any other religion wasn't a gene to be passed down biologically. Religion is not race.
So discrimination against social groups is okay in some cases? And of course religion is not a "race", there is no such thing as race. But attacks on muslims can still be racist, for example when atheist or christian racists bang on about "inferior Islamic culture". Of course religion is a choice, but how do you think that goes in highly religious countries? That people are born into a perfectly enlightened and secular status, and that they only ever convert to a religion because they are either evil or stupid? Of course not. To apply such ridiculously high standards to one specific group of people is also borderline racist.

See, this is the problem when you discard a marxist outlook in favour of elitist radical left-liberalism. When you don't make any attempt to understand why people are in the positions they're in, you'll never get anywhere with them. How would you deal with Islamic immigrants, for example, when you basically believe that they deserve to be discriminated against because they are "backwards", religious people? But then again, some left groups really don't want to defend scary "brown people" because of "the very real fears of the white working class" (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1273989&postcount=24 and http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1275269&postcount=104).


And I believe Joe stated Islam (as a religion), not its people, is a fucking poor start for anyone.
Probably true, but in the real world there are still billions of people who believe in it.


And officially, they discard 10% of the world's population in their holy book. Although I do know some gay muslims too.
What a preposterous statement. This is a piss poor analysis, because it assumes that all religious people zealously follow everything in their holy book (even the contradictory stuff?). Of course, most people are casually religious, so it's stupid to suggest that all muslims are "officially" homophobic. Again, it's a pure focus on discourse, on official organs, etc. It's basically the same line of argument that homophobic and sexist fundamentalists use to justify the idea that only they are truly following the book, that all the other ones are really infidels, etc.


Some, if not most.
Pure ignorance, based on wishful thinking. You want them to be homophobic and sexist, because otherwise your argument falls to pieces. You don't know if they are, but you just assume so.


Because she was probably a liberal Jew, there are denominations in almost all religions ya know ;)
That's the whole point, religions aren't monolithic. In Islam, you have extremist sects like the Wahhabis. Then you have groups like the Alevis mentioned by psycho, whom Comrade Joe liberally referred to as "shit" because their existence undermined his crappy arguments. And then you have the vast majority who just generally believe in Sunnism or Shi'ism, just like your city is probably full of Anglicans, Protestants, Catholics, etc.

I still think that you, Joe, etc. are applying double standards. 69% of the population of Sheffield is Christian. Officially, they discard 10% of the world's population in their holy book. But I somehow doubt that, in your political work, you actively discriminate against the majority population of your city.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

well thank you, you seem to stumble on my main point that Joe so clearly missed.
i argue that
a. mostly the atroceties are the denominations and not the decent people and

But the "decent people" are the support base. Sure the liberal jewish person may not be calling for stoning's or whatever but she is helping people maintain the stupid superstitious crap they share. Now do you think with a shift of small shift of material conditions it would be too far out to suggest that some of the people she has helped maintain Judaism in will be calling for stoning s.



b. even if they werent the good people shouldn't be discarded so easyli as some ppl here did.
[quote=psycho;1277074]
the fact that some ppl see in their very big religion (and its huge, with many diffrent strands and not an small sect with only one truth)

None of its truth.


the right to do horrible stuff and excuses world views i cant agree with, doesn't mean that the the religion in question is intrisic sexist, homphobic, in favor of honoury killings

Since Islam is in the spotlight of exsample. The Quarn is meant to be the word of god. Taking out the "nasty" bits condemns you to hell.

also

When religious people (who take religion seriously) are in power the shit hits the fan.



(wich by the way is an CULTURAL phenomonon not an religious one)

Religion is cultural.



And yes i will call it racist by lack of an better word, Joe clearly denies the cultural aspect of having an faith (espacelly that of muslims whose culture is even more based on the group in stead of the individual).

I do. And its a piece of culture many communists wish to destroy.

But wait. You seem to think race ( a social construct) in twinned with culture? are you suggesting that some races cannot change there culture?



and the fact that you are nuanced and even do (rightly) regonize the cultural aspect in the case of some neo-nazi's

The beating your wives aspect or the standing outside schools shouting abuse at black kids aspect? Because this is a part of neo-nazi culture i wish to die. Along with the neo nazis are part of such a culture.



shows to me that you do in fact hold some un-regonised white supremacist views.

Oh fuck off.



one muslim can't be held acountable for sucide bombers or female opression no more than i as an leftist can be held acountable for the massmurders of the stalinist.

Communism is not a religion you fuckwit.

Also religion has had tens of thousands of years to prove itself and from the drilling of heads to remove bad spirits to the bombing of iraq , religion has shown itself time and time again to be fucking shit.


Yes communism has had quite a few success in the time its being practised from anarchist areas in spain (in which it shows such a system works) even the state capitalist soviet union had improved living conditions for the Russian people.




If someone is an Wahabit he is off-course of my list of potential comrades/allies as long he is an firm believer, an alevit or an immigrant kid that goes to the mosque twice a year on the big hollidays is not.




Because the last two often do not take religion seriously.

and two side points


a. in my experience most muslims (overhere) ARE way more tollerant of people that they don't agree with than the white working class and are more willing to work together on the stuff that binds us


1. Quite a few muslims are white
2. They probs dont take yourself seriously because.....


(i might be an godless atheist and sleep with men but the only thing that matters to them is the fact that we both want social change and respect and they will work with me on that and they will shake my hand and call me their friend and be sincere about it)

They would have nothing to do with you but be propper out of order towards if you if they did.


B. i dont know imortal technique so i cant realy give an infomed opinion on him as an person/artist.

Hes more progressive then alot of rap artiststs but hes still a wanker.

[Rex0230]

A thousand and one thing is wrong with Islam, but I know you westerns can understand that... 500 years of killin' and rapin' in the name of Islam, and maybe then you'll understand. Also, I thought that ya'll are revolutionary, against oppression, but you fall for one of the greatest oppression tool known to mankind... religion!
As far as I know, communism and religion don't mix, so why are y'all defendin' it?

Also props to Joe... the real Comrade in here!!!

[Wanted Man]

A thousand and one thing is wrong with Islam, but I know you westerns can understand that... 500 years of killin' and rapin' in the name of Islam, and maybe then you'll understand. Also, I thought that ya'll are revolutionary, against oppression, but you fall for one of the greatest oppression tool known to mankind... religion!
As far as I know, communism and religion don't mix, so why are y'all defendin' it?

Also props to Joe... the real Comrade in here!!!
Bullshit, nobody is actually arguing in favour of religion. However, we also don't think that the vast majority of people are useless shitheads who deserve to be discriminated against.


2. They probs dont take yourself seriously because.....


They would have nothing to do with you but be propper out of order towards if you if they did.
What are you actually trying to say? Are you implying that psycho's muslim friends/comrades are somehow insincere, just because they're muslim? For fuck's sake, a lot of people on this board don't have English as their first language. You could at least extend some common courtesy to them by writing above primary school level.

[Black Dagger]

I understand your point, but it's still a stupid thing to say. "I liked him until I found out he was a muslim", as if simply being a muslim means that person should automatically be dismissed.


Well yeah, i agree that it's stupid ;)

[Os Cangaceiros]

You know, I'm an atheist myself, but sometimes other atheists really piss me off...

[Red_Dialectics]

haha I like Technique anyway. It's hard to find any rap these days that isn't about "*****es and hos" and glorifying gang warfare, rape, murder, and capitalism. I take what I can get as far as leftist music goes, and I do like his beats. Agree to disagree if you must, but I am still a fan.

[Black Dagger]

I know what you mean, it just bothers when leftists listen to leftist artists and aren't critical at all of what they say - simply because... they're leftists too! So if a leftists walks up to me a starts praising IT (and his lyrics) to high heaven but doesn't mention his short-comings (sexism/homophobia) i get sus, is all. Like it bothered me that not one person before me even mentioned the issue - two pages and not one mention - and this thread is meant to be a criticism of IT as well :unsure:

[Rex0230]

Bullshit, nobody is actually arguing in favour of religion. However, we also don't think that the vast majority of people are useless shitheads who deserve to be discriminated against.

I never said I hate muslims... I meant to say that I got DISAPPOINTED when I heard he's a muslim, cuz I don't think it's revolutionary, but that's just me... Except that religious shit, I like his music... He don't do that soft shit, str8 hardcore, and I agree with most of his statements
So what if he gets discriminated... Is it gonna hurt his feelings? I get discriminated a for bein' an atheist, and I don't take it to heart... For a "revolutionaries" y'all are gettin' too soft... If y'all are gettin' your feelin' hurt so easily, how would I know you wouldn't run when and if revolution comes...

I think Dead Prez said it better:

"Would you be ready for civil war
Could you take the life of somebody you know,
or have feelings for if necessary?
I got cousins in the military
But far as I'm concerned they died, when they registered"

Stop bein' so sensitive... Toughen up

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

What are you actually trying to say? Are you implying that psycho's muslim friends/comrades are somehow insincere, just because they're muslim? For fuck's sake, a lot of people on this board don't have English as their first language. You could at least extend some common courtesy to them by writing above primary school level.


No. I am saying at this point in time there religion is not very important to them.

[Coggeh]

Where did you find this out? He says in some songs how he once was a christian but then realized the absurdity of it... and i never knew he was anti-abortion.
He's a 3rd-worldist muslim .... that aside i still love his music .

On the other hand again ... he posed for playboy in a pic ...idiot :(

[Coggeh]

haha I like Technique anyway. It's hard to find any rap these days that isn't about "*****es and hos" and glorifying gang warfare, rape, murder, and capitalism. I take what I can get as far as leftist music goes, and I do like his beats. Agree to disagree if you must, but I am still a fan.
I know what ya mean , I love rap probably more than rock but most of the time the lyrics are reactionary pieces of ignorant shit .. so when I.T comes along its just ... finally ... Though theirs loads of other rappers out there who are quite leftists . I suggest last emperor , think hes a maoist ..not sure...

[Sasha]

No. I am saying at this point in time there religion is not very important to them.


oh no, i'm talking about proper serious religous people here mostly. they take their religion very seriously.
in my experience the more religous a muslim is (excluding the bat-crazy fundamentalists) the more respectful for others poeples choices in live. They might not agree with those choises, but they are mine and its not up to them to judge them. Only god can do that.
maybe its because they know what its like to be discriminated and treated without respect but if i have to be locked up in a room with an devout religous person of any religion i'll pick the muslim anytime.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

il respond tommrow.

[Forward Union]

I'll be honest. I quite like it. It's nothign spectacular but he puts things across quite articularly in some songs. The 911 conspiracy stuff is a bit offputting, but I listen to loads of bands that have a shit message. Poverty of Philosophy is spot on.

I've heard he's homophobic and pro-life. But haven't heard it myself.

[Agrippa]

Immortal Technique is a very talented, entertaining rapper in my mind. I enjoy listening to his music.

That said, his lyrics are riddled with misogynistic and homophobic put-downs, support for Leninist regimes, "9/11 truth" and other right-wing conspiracy theories, generic "Fox News is bad" liberal sentiment, etc. He's also obviously fixated on aborted fetuses and other descriptions gruesome scenes which he obviously intends to be shocking but usually ends up being trite.

All and all, I like him. I would enjoy seeing him perform and would enjoy meeting him.

I'm not touching the Islam debate with a ten foot pole.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Sorry forgot about this thread. Got mixed up in the wonderful world of the garden of england.


oh no, i'm talking about proper serious religous people here mostly. they take their religion very seriously.

How serous?

stoning gays serious or going to the mosqe and not eating pork serious?




in my experience the more religous a muslim is (excluding the bat-crazy fundamentalists) the more respectful for others poeples choices in live.

Do they do this?

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/02/14/saudi_law.jpg




They might not agree with those choises, but they are mine and its not up to them to judge them. Only god can do that.

In the absence of god which is the situation real life presents us with the best thing we can do is to argue and debate about issues. If somthing is deemed crap it should be said its crap!



maybe its because they know what its like to be discriminated and treated without respect but if i have to be locked up in a room with an devout religous person of any religion i'll pick the muslim anytime.

I dont know who i would pick probs not a muslim def not a christain.

[Sasha]

Sorry forgot about this thread. Got mixed up in the wonderful world of the garden of england.

thats o.k. i have been bussy picking on the stalinists


How serous?

stoning gays serious or going to the mosqe and not eating pork serious?


going to mosque and not eating pork, praying allot, abstaining from alcohol, sex, tabaco, gambling, criminality etc etc.
havent had any homosexuals getting stoned around here in the last few decades.
had a few nasty incidents with kids from an muslim background gay bashing poeple and defending that later with the koran, but funnely anough it always turns out that these kids are not anymore muslim than your avarage white gaybasher is christian.
thats my point, the horrible stuff that usaly get blamed on them being muslim turns out to be 99.9% of the time cultural, not religious.
so when an turkish person or kurd does an honorkilling its not because he is muslim, its because that was an pre-islam practise firmly rooted in the place where he/she came from. And the cristians and seculars from the same area do it aperently too. Same goes with the genital mutilation of girls, yes the people who do this are african muslims but it is not an muslim practise, the christians from the same area do it too.

and you know very well that a. i talk about the situation in the western world so leave you cheapshot fitna pictures out of it b. i am no fan of religion.
i just don't like leftist falling in the neo-con trap of treatening every single muslim like he or she is an backwater, uncivelised, dangerous, bigot piece of shit.
and i know its an serious charge, but i will repeat it non the less, but i think you have some white supramicist views on this subject and would encourage you to have an critical look at them.

[Oneironaut]

Its discrimination against a religion, religion is a choice, last I checked, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism or any other religion wasn't a gene to be passed down biologically. Religion is not race.

This is not a Marxist perspective. You seem to entirely ignore the reality that what constitutes us as humans is our environment and not essence. Knowing this, if a child is born into a Lakota tribe, never experiences anything else beyond what the Lakota teach, she will ascribe to the same beliefs as the rest of the tribe.

If you don't mind me asking, where you exposed to atheism at any point in your life? Under what circumstances did you become an atheist? I myself was raised a christian but during my high school years I was exposed to atheism and gradually opened up to it over the course of one year. I have been an atheist ever since.

What about when a child is born into a muslim community and never experiences anything beyond what his family and his neighbors tell him about life and faith? His faith will eventually constitute who he is and how he looks at the world in much the same way that communism/anarchism affects our world view. Good luck at getting him to join our side by attacking everything he thinks exists. Do you not realize the resistance he will show?

As marxists, religion is NOT our enemy. Our enemy is capitalism. The two cannot be separated. If you want people to stop turning to a faith, they need a life that isn't desolate and lonely, impoverished and cruel. Once these aspects of our lives are eliminated and we all have the opportunity to pursue a life of happiness and pleasure then religion will become irrelevant. It will cease to exist.

But now, we still live in a shitty as place where for many people the only hope they get is from their faith.

[Charles Xavier]

Immortal Technique is not muslim listen to beef and broccoli

"their agenda on me. you know i don't eat pork,
not because i'm a muslim, i just don't
really like it, but i really will
fuck a bird up. and fish is good
when that shit is fresh. it's like my nigga"

[Rex0230]

Bottom line is that he's aight, but I'll stick to Dead Prez :thumbup1:
BTW they got new single Politrickkks... Beat sucks tho :crying:

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

.

thats o.k. i have been bussy picking on the stalinists

Fair nuff.


.

going to mosque and not eating pork, praying allot, abstaining from alcohol, sex, tabaco, gambling, criminality etc etc.

thats not really that hard to do. I could turn to neo-purtanism and waste a few minutes a day chanting gibberish if i really wanted to. Yet i still would not be taking my religion as seriously as one who bombs a bus or supports the iraq war to teach the hethens a lesson.



.
havent had any homosexuals getting stoned around here in the last few decades.

I see religion has not got much of a political foothold then.

.
had a few nasty incidents with kids from an muslim background gay bashing poeple and defending that later with the koran, but funnely anough it always turns out that these kids are not anymore muslim than your avarage white gaybasher is christian.


The gay bashing christain is a christain. The gay bashing muslim is a muslim.

.
thats my point, the horrible stuff that usaly get blamed on them being muslim turns out to be 99.9% of the time cultural, not religious.

Religion is cultural. Be it christainty in rural western settings or bhudism in western middle class libreal settings


.
so when an turkish person or kurd does an honorkilling its not because he is muslim, its because that was an pre-islam practise firmly rooted in the place where he/she came from.




Must be why it took root within islam then.

.
And the cristians and seculars from the same area do it aperently too. Same goes with the genital mutilation of girls, yes the people who do this are african muslims but it is not an muslim practise, the christians from the same area do it too.

Oh alright the christains do it. That makes it ok? NO


.




i just don't like leftist falling in the neo-con trap of treatening every single muslim like he or she is an backwater, uncivelised, dangerous, bigot piece of shit.

Many moderate muslims i get on with alright on a personal leavel. Although they may be mad. Most of them are just brainwashed in the same way christains are.


.
and i know its an serious charge, but i will repeat it non the less, but i think you have some white supramicist views on this subject and would encourage you to have an critical look at them.



Fuck off.

Do you belive muslims are too stupid to though off religion?


. I dont.i belive they can tear that piece of shit down just as well as the christies and the hindus , the sihks at the others can cast of there oppressive religion

[Wanted Man]

thats not really that hard to do. I could turn to neo-purtanism and waste a few minutes a day chanting gibberish if i really wanted to. Yet i still would not be taking my religion as seriously as one who bombs a bus or supports the iraq war to teach the hethens a lesson.
Who are you to judge? It's up to them to decide what kind of moral they want in life. As long as I don't have to fast, it's fine with me. If you want to convince muslims that they can only be serious and consistent muslims if they blow up buses, you should become a fundamentalist cleric.


Do they do this?
He just made a point out of excluding crazy fundamentalists. Anyway, scary images don't work, we've already had enough of them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film)) from ignorant racists. Domestic ones, that is, so we don't even need to import them from super-awesome hardcore elitist "my way or the highway" atheists on RevLeft.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Who are you to judge? It's up to them to decide what kind of moral they want in life. As long as I don't have to fast, it's fine with me.

It does effect other people. Now i don't care what a few nutters get up to but chances are they will want to spread that harmful delusion to their children. So yeah i dont care if they keep it to themselves but thats not really whats happening is it?



If you want to convince muslims that they can only be serious and consistent muslims if they blow up buses, you should become a fundamentalist cleric.

Is the pay good?


He just made a point out of excluding crazy fundamentalists.


I was making the point that, that is the shit serious muslims get up to (or would do if they got the chance).


Anyway, scary images don't work, we've already had enough of them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28film%29) from ignorant racists. Domestic ones, that is,


Pray tell how i am racist.


super-awesome hardcore elitist .

lol

[Wanted Man]

It does effect other people. Now i don't care what a few nutters get up to but chances are they will want to spread that harmful delusion to their children. So yeah i dont care if they keep it to themselves but thats not really whats happening is it?
Of course parents affect their children. But what does that have to do with anything? I already explained to you that one can be a 'serious muslim' without wanting to 'blow up buses' or enforcing reactionary shit on the general population. Only fundamentalist nuts and the European far right claim that terrorism is inherent to Islam, both for their own reactionary purposes.



Pray tell how i am racist.I didn't say that. I said that racists here are basically using the same techniques as you are doing to incite people against muslims: show some scary images of bearded people cutting off body parts, and associate them with all of Islam. Did you even click the link? Or, as psycho said:


and you know very well that a. i talk about the situation in the western world so leave you cheapshot fitna pictures out of it b. i am no fan of religion.
i just don't like leftist falling in the neo-con trap of treatening every single muslim like he or she is an backwater, uncivelised, dangerous, bigot piece of shit.I don't think you're consciously racist. But I agree with psycho that you do seem to have some white nationalist baggage, because you take so much exception to reactionary views amongst one particular group. You admit that Christianity is reactionary too, but I really doubt that you also strongly discriminate against all Christians. And the quote below is really disgusting:


I was making the point that, that is the shit serious muslims get up to (or would do if they got the chance).

As if all 'serious muslims' are liable to be barbarians who decapitate women. Bigotry in the form of Islamophobia is a growing problem as part of the right-wing's efforts to incite nationalism. People who participate in it can't be leftists.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Of course parents affect their children. But what does that have to do with anything? I already explained to you that one can be a 'serious muslim' without wanting to 'blow up buses' or enforcing reactionary shit on the general population. Only fundamentalist nuts and the European far right claim that terrorism is inherent to Islam, both for their own reactionary purposes.


Im saying thats the kind of shit religions get up to when they are in power. Yes reactionaries do critize islam but most of the time its to show the "superiority" of their shit hole of a religion or to make attacks upon immigrant communities.

Im having a go at it because like the other religions it is dangerous and shit.



I didn't say that. I said that racists here are basically using the same techniques as you are doing to incite people against muslims: show some scary images of bearded people cutting off body parts, and associate them with all of Islam. Did you even click the link?


Yes i know they are. We have diffrent intentions. If i was going to take a stand against religion i would have an anti religion group not an anti-islam group.




I don't think you're consciously racist. But I agree with psycho that you do seem to have some white nationalist baggage, because you take so much exception to reactionary views amongst one particular group. You admit that Christianity is reactionary too, but I really doubt that you also strongly discriminate against all Christians.

Wana-bet?



And the quote below is really disgusting:


No its not. Same goes for christains. My next door neighbor who believes in god and jesus and all that shit is not serious about her religion since she disregards what that prick jesus said people must do.

However! My mates mum (ban on slipknot and harry potter kinda mum) however belives that gays should be sent out of "this christain land" and other pointless shit.

Also since I have subconscious racist beliefs (according to you) , I presume you have started a restriction or ban thread in the CC?



As if all 'serious muslims' are liable to be barbarians who decapitate women. Bigotry in the form of Islamophobia is a growing problem as part of the right-wing's efforts to incite nationalism. People who participate in it can't be leftists.[/quote]

[Sam_b]

Being intolerant of religion does not make one a racist


No, it just makes you a complete wanker, and an Islamophobe. We stand up for oppressed peoples; whatever gender race or religion, and such comments like this are the rhetoric of the BNP and other fascists, and play into their hands.

[redarmyfaction38]

haha I like Technique anyway. It's hard to find any rap these days that isn't about "*****es and hos" and glorifying gang warfare, rape, murder, and capitalism. I take what I can get as far as leftist music goes, and I do like his beats. Agree to disagree if you must, but I am still a fan.
now, me, i like immortal technique, he's been around and done stuff he knows he shouldn't have.
he's been "dancing with the devil" and now he "sits on the right hand of god", having reformed himself and learnt, the hard way, the truth of all values, religious, economic and "racial" taught to him as a child.
he also states quite clearly, that his relationship with god is a personal one, not one driven by man made religion.
his anger at abortion is derived from the loss of his first child due to a home made abortion, they don't abort babies with a coat hanger in hospital, the anger is directed at the woman.
his tirade against pro lifers is a tirade against the hypocrisy surrounding the pro life movement, basically, it's about pro lifers that rage against abortion whilst supporting the death penalty and imperialist war.
i wonder if some of the posters i've read so far, actually bothered listening to his songs.
on a musical note, "same beats"? you have to be joking, it's the very variation of his beats compared to the usual hip hop/ rap monotony that makes his music worth the effort, not to mention of course his cynical sense of humour and total disregard for the accepted niceties of the music industry.
if i ever needed a lyrical brother, that man fills the job description.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

No, it just makes you a complete wanker, and an Islamophobe. We stand up for oppressed peoples; whatever gender race or religion, and such comments like this are the rhetoric of the BNP and other fascists, and play into their hands.

Well obviously. Il defend most muslims if some prick is hurling abuse at him but i wont defend their religion. What the BNP is doing differs to just being anti-religion because I attack religion as a whole not just Islam. My motive for this is not to "drive back the invader religion from our christain soil" or whatever shit but to say "look religion is rather shit and this one is not exempt".

[redarmyfaction38]

Well obviously. Il defend most muslims if some prick is hurling abuse at him but i wont defend their religion. What the BNP is doing differs to just being anti-religion because I attack religion as a whole not just Islam. My motive for this is not to "drive back the invader religion from our christain soil" or whatever shit but to say "look religion is rather shit and this one is not exempt".
just a question, not an attack on your opinion, do you think that a personal relationship with your god is the same as accepting the religious doctrine of an accepted religious viewpoint?

[Liberte ou la Mort]

Hillarious thread. A modern rap artist with somewhat of a social conscience and you guys pick his art apart and then piss all over it.

Fools.

If you don't like it then don't listen to it.

What have you done to fight apathy and construct something meaningful - nothing.

Showing disrespect for people's culture such as hiphop and their religion such as Islam only show you up for what you really are: hypocritic white middle class imbeciles.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

You must be the first person to tell peoples working class over the internet.

Or prehaps your talking out of your arse.

Its called making criticisms i think some of the things he does is fucking insane and il point that out. It dosent make me an evil sectarian. You need to work the problem before you can work out the solution.

[Jazzratt]

Hillarious thread. A modern rap artist with somewhat of a social conscience and you guys pick his art apart and then piss all over it.

Being a homophobic dipshit doesn't qualify you for a social conscience.


If you don't like it then don't listen to it.

So because we don't have to listen to it his music and lyrics are beyond criticism?


What have you done to fight apathy and construct something meaningful - nothing.

Don't be a presumptuous squit splatter. You have absolutely nothing to base your conclusion on.


Showing disrespect for people's culture such as hiphop and their religion such as Islam only show you up for what you really are: hypocritic white middle class imbeciles.

Criticising a single hip-hop artist is not disrespecting an entire culture, numbnuts, and as you can plainly see from the blasting COmrade Joe is getting it's not like the entire board shares a black and white critique of islam.

[Chapter 24]

Well I for one really enjoy listening to I.T. But to each his own I guess...

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

just a question, not an attack on your opinion, do you think that a personal relationship with your god is the same as accepting the religious doctrine of an accepted religious viewpoint?

No of course not. I think if somone talks to god in there head , prays in there house or whatever there are issues that are effecting that person that needs to be addressed.But if that religion became organized then it may be worth monitering it and acting against it if the majority of a commune deemed it a threat.