Basque rallies demand referendum on independence

[spartan]

Thousands of demonstrators have taken to the streets in the Basque region of Spain, demanding the right to a referendum on independence.

The regional government had originally planned to hold a vote on Saturday, but the proposal was declared illegal by Spain's Supreme Court.

Organisers say 20,000 people joined rallies in six Basque towns.

In another sign of protest against the court's ruling, there were explosions at two Basque railway stations.

The governing Basque Nationalist Party had hoped to consult the electorate on Saturday on negotiations towards a full referendum on independence within two years.

But last month, Spain's Supreme Court declared the plan unconstitutional.

During Saturday's march, police had to separate Basque nationalist demonstrators from a rival rally by a far-right party - which proclaimed that Spain would never be divided.

Overnight, there was a very different protest in the form of explosions at two Basque railway stations.

Petrol bombs
Shortly after midnight, a small bomb brought down the ceiling of a ticket hall in the town of Berriz. Two hours later, petrol bombs were hurled at ticket machines in the nearby town of Amorebieta. There were no injuries.

Speaking at the EU-Asia summit in Beijing, the Spanish Prime Minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, condemned the attacks and said terrorists would be punished.

Police are investigating whether the bombings were the work of the armed separatist group ETA or young nationalist sympathisers.

Mr Zapatero has portrayed the proposed referendum as political manoeuvring ahead of regional elections next March.

But in a newspaper interview, the head of the regional government - Juan Jose Ibarretxe - said Madrid had shown an arrogant disregard for the rights of the Basque people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7691156.stm

Spain give the Basques the right to decide their political status and future!

[The Author]

The Basques have a right to call for independence.

The problem is, on what sort of ideological platform they want to push forward. Is this a nationalist platform, or one of a proletarian background. How will it affect relations with the Spanish workers, who will support this independent state, is it better to call for autonomy, etc. The right of self-determination would be better realized if all of Spain was liberated by the proletariat from the bourgeois state, and they could have autonomy. Instead of breaking up Spain into smaller countries where bourgeoisie is divided against bourgeoisie.

[Charles Xavier]

All workers of Spain should unite in order to fight the monarcho-capitalist rule in Spain, not for separation.

[Andropov]

By removing Spanish Imperialism the Basque people are one step closer to Proletarian emancipation.

[Charles Xavier]

By removing Spanish Imperialism the Basque people are one step closer to Proletarian emancipation.
Explain how this is possible when Basque isn't socialist? And it would put workers against workers. I very much doubt the Imperialists of the world would have any problem dealing with a basque state.

[Andropov]

Explain how this is possible when Basque isn't socialist? And it would put workers against workers. I very much doubt the Imperialists of the world would have any problem dealing with a basque state.

I know its not socialist, yet.
But by removing imperialist interests the Left have one less obstacle, one less master.
I am under no illusions that it will become a Workers Utopia over night, but by removing Spanish Imperialism the worker can then focus on over throwing Bourgoise interests.
Its a gradual process.

[Charles Xavier]

I know its not socialist, yet.
But by removing imperialist interests the Left have one less obstacle, one less master.
I am under no illusions that it will become a Workers Utopia over night, but by removing Spanish Imperialism the worker can then focus on over throwing Bourgoise interests.
Its a gradual process.


I do not see how the Basque are being exploited by Spanish Imperialism when the Basque workers are in an Labour Aristocratic position from Spanish Imperialism from the looting of the "third" world. The Basque workers are being exploited by Capitalism rather.

[The Author]

One also has to wonder what would happen if the Basque proletariat liberated itself and established a new socialist country. While progressive, there would be problems concerning encirclement by the Spanish bourgeoisie- not to mention the bourgeois classes of the other European nations and the United States. How would the new Basque socialist state be able to cope with all of these enemies at the same time.

Things might be easier if there was socialist liberation not only for the Basques, but for all Spain (and Europe and the U.S. to boot at least). Real national self-determination would be a guarantee if all of Spain was liberated from the bourgeois yoke.

[Herman]

They have a right to call for referendum.

I support a republican socialist Basque Country, but not a bourgeois nationalist one.

[PRC-UTE]

All workers of Spain should unite in order to fight the monarcho-capitalist rule in Spain, not for separation.

Would Basque separatism not weaken the Spanish state? the Monarchists, fascists and capitalists seem to think so.

Sometimes it's useful to see what two opposing sides agree on. In this, they all seem to agree that a Basque republic is not in the interests of the Spanish ruling class.

I think that self determination for the Basques would make it easier for the working class, like redrevolutionary said, one more obstacle removed. I could be wrong and I do have some reservations about the Basque independence movement, but these are my impressions.

[Andropov]

I do not see how the Basque are being exploited by Spanish Imperialism when the Basque workers are in an Labour Aristocratic position from Spanish Imperialism from the looting of the "third" world. The Basque workers are being exploited by Capitalism rather.
The Capitalism that exploits the Basque country is that of the Bourgoise interests.
Those Bourgoise interests are either the Basque Middle Class or the Imperialists from Madrid.
Either way the Spanish state is protecting those interests and once its authority is removed hopefully those bourgoise interests will be eradicated.

[Herman]

A federation is needed in Spain, not the poorly thought out "estatutos" that the Spanish government has been using for decades.

[Charles Xavier]

Would Basque separatism not weaken the Spanish state? the Monarchists, fascists and capitalists seem to think so.

Sometimes it's useful to see what two opposing sides agree on. In this, they all seem to agree that a Basque republic is not in the interests of the Spanish ruling class.

I think that self determination for the Basques would make it easier for the working class, like redrevolutionary said, one more obstacle removed. I could be wrong and I do have some reservations about the Basque independence movement, but these are my impressions.

It would weaken the Spanish state, and it would likewise weaken the working class movement in Spain, one thing it wouldn't weaken is international capitalism, nor Capitalism in Spain or Basque, in fact its funny you said that because I was just reading Lenin on the National Question, and the Polish Socialist Party(which was apart of Tsarist Russia pre-ww1) and the PSP said the exact same thing. http://www.marxistsfr.org/archive/lenin/works//1903/jul/15.htm

This is what the PSP says, This, for instance, is how the P.S.P. usually presents the question: “...We can only weaken tsarism by wresting Poland from it; it is the task of the Russian comrades to overthrow it.” Or again: “... After the over throw of tsarism we would simply decide our fate by seceding from Russia. .....

....Because the restoration of Poland is one of the possible (but, whilst the bourgeoisie rules, by no means absolutely certain) consequences of democratic evolution, therefore the Polish proletariat must not fight together with the Russian proletariat to overthrow tsarism, but “only” to weaken it by wresting Poland from it. Because Russian tsarism is concluding a closer and closer alliance with the bourgeoisie and the governments of Germany, Austria, etc., therefore the Polish proletariat must weaken its alliance with the proletariat of Russia, Germany, etc., together with whom it is now fighting against one and the same yoke"


And to what Lenin says on this:


The disintegration of Russia which the P.S.P. desires, as distinct from our aim of overthrowing tsarism, is and will remain an empty phrase, as long as economic development continues to bring the different parts of a political whole more and more closely together, and as long as the bourgeoisie of all countries unite more and more closely against their common enemy, the proletariat, and in support of their common ally, the tsar. But the division of the forces of the proletariat, which is now suffering under the yoke of this autocracy, is the sad reality, the direct consequence of the error of the P.S.P., the direct outcome of its worship of bourgeois-democratic formulas.

[PRC-UTE]

And to what Lenin says on this:


The disintegration of Russia which the P.S.P. desires, as distinct from our aim of overthrowing tsarism, is and will remain an empty phrase, as long as economic development continues to bring the different parts of a political whole more and more closely together, and as long as the bourgeoisie of all countries unite more and more closely against their common enemy, the proletariat, and in support of their common ally, the tsar. But the division of the forces of the proletariat, which is now suffering under the yoke of this autocracy, is the sad reality, the direct consequence of the error of the P.S.P., the direct outcome of its worship of bourgeois-democratic formulas.

Lenin took different positions in different situations after analysing them case by case. He looked at situations tactically, not out of principle. He took a very different position on Ireland, supporting republicanism there.

[Charles Xavier]

Lenin took different positions in different situations after analysing them case by case. He looked at situations tactically, not out of principle. He took a very different position on Ireland, supporting republicanism there.


Yes, which is quite right, and Basque is a very different situation than Ireland. Ireland was basically colonial oppression, while basque isn't. Basque separation is not a worker's slogan, its a bourgeioisie democratic one.