THANK YOU CAPITALISM! - thanks for all the hunger and povert

[the SovieT]

thank you for this:
http://www.freepressinternational.com/child.jpg
and this:
http://www.freepressinternational.com/poverty.jpg

and this to:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pnp/ppmsc/00200/00230r.jpg
and this
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pnp/ppmsc/00200/00228r.jpg
and this
http://www.freepressinternational.com/famine.jpg



YES LONG LIVE CAPITALISM AND ALL ITS INFINITE EXPOITATION, POVERTY, WAR, AND HUNGER!

[Tkinter1]

Ok?

[Sabocat]

What's wrong with these lazy deadbeat slackers? They could be stitching shoes for Nike for a dollar a day!

That's the solution to all their problems. :angry: They just don't want to work!

(please note the not too subtle sarcasm)

[Liberty Lover]

Thank you 'the SovieT',

for:

a nonsensical post

and for:

being an idiot

as well as:

smelling bad

plus:

not understanding capitalism

in addition to:

wasting the sweet air of freedom on totalitarian lungs

[Sabocat]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 4:46 pm on May 8, 2003
Thank you 'the SovieT',

for:

a nonsensical post

and for:

being an idiot

as well as:

smelling bad

plus:

not understanding capitalism

in addition to:

wasting the sweet air of freedom on totalitarian lungs



So I suppose you being in school, not working, not supporting a family, not paying taxes (to any great extent), not paying for healthcare, not paying rent or mortgages, not paying automobile expenses,
makes you an expert on capitalism.

Right wingers always refer to uncomfortable images as nonsensical. It also looks to me like a couple of those pictures were from depression era U$. Believe me...the depression had everything to do with capitalism.

I would also guess then, the sweet air of freedom should not be granted to those with opposing ideologies?

[IHP]

I think I have to agree with Lover boy...on a certain level here.

Could you just make some arguments as to how the injustices of capitalism are responsible for those poor people?

As for the rest of LL's post, come on mate, I thought you were past those ad hominem posts.

--IHP

[Sabocat]

Okay...lets take the first picture. I am going to make the assumption that that is a picture of a starving child in Africa.

*The U$ has repeatedly voted against UN resolutions, making the right of food and health for all citizens of the world. The U$ has repeatedly denied allowing Africa to make generic versions of drugs that would save countless lives. These drugs have been called Weapons of Mass Salvation. The money spent on countless incursions and wars all over the globe, as well as for example the billions of dollars in foreign aid to israel each year could easily feed the poor and hungry in a humanitarian effort.

Not knowing exactly the circumstances of the second photo, I would assume it's safe to guess that that was taken in Iraq.

*Economic sanctions crippled the civilian population there. Clean water, plentiful food...just weren't available. The UN stated that Iraq with the sanctions had about 5% of it's clean water capacity due to the repeated bombings of water and sewerage facilities. Approximately 500,000 children died from cholera and dysentary. This all occured of course because of global strategic positioning and oil.

The third and fourth pictures, if we can assume they are from depression era U$ should need no explanation.

*Corporate profit taking and speculation directly affected the working class, forcing them from their homes, denying them the basic tools for survival. The picture really says it all.

Fourth picture....see first example.

In a land where people are dying from obesity, it is a crime against humanity to allow these kind of tragedies.

[IHP]

Thank you disgustipated. Thats what we were after, thats what sovieT should have posted with the pictures. Now theres an argument on the table.

--IHP

[Capitalist Killer]

Yey, evil capitalist oppression, revolution is the only solution, throw off you're chains for you have the world to gain.

[Boris Moskovitz]

It is true, capitalism doesn't give a single damn about the environment. Okay, but what are you gonna do about it? People are too afraid to stand up publicly to their ideas. And the others... are just mere puppets, but oh well...

But you gotta love child labor, all those pitiful inferior stupid kids working for you so hard, and you get to sit on your fat arse! Mwahhahahahaha!

(Edited by Boris Moskovitz at 7:56 pm on May 8, 2003)

[von Mises]

Quote: from Disgustapated on 12:36 pm on May 8, 2003
Okay...lets take the first picture. I am going to make the assumption that that is a picture of a starving child in Africa.

*The U$ has repeatedly voted against UN resolutions, making the right of food and health for all citizens of the world. The U$ has repeatedly denied allowing Africa to make generic versions of drugs that would save countless lives. These drugs have been called Weapons of Mass Salvation. The money spent on countless incursions and wars all over the globe, as well as for example the billions of dollars in foreign aid to israel each year could easily feed the poor and hungry in a humanitarian effort.

Not knowing exactly the circumstances of the second photo, I would assume it's safe to guess that that was taken in Iraq.

*Economic sanctions crippled the civilian population there. Clean water, plentiful food...just weren't available. The UN stated that Iraq with the sanctions had about 5% of it's clean water capacity due to the repeated bombings of water and sewerage facilities. Approximately 500,000 children died from cholera and dysentary. This all occured of course because of global strategic positioning and oil.

The third and fourth pictures, if we can assume they are from depression era U$ should need no explanation.

*Corporate profit taking and speculation directly affected the working class, forcing them from their homes, denying them the basic tools for survival. The picture really says it all.

Fourth picture....see first example.

In a land where people are dying from obesity, it is a crime against humanity to allow these kind of tragedies.


So again, what does capitalism have to do with this?

[NeedForRevolution]

Quote: from von Mises on 4:11 pm on May 8, 2003

Quote: from Disgustapated on 12:36 pm on May 8, 2003
Okay...lets take the first picture. I am going to make the assumption that that is a picture of a starving child in Africa.

*The U$ has repeatedly voted against UN resolutions, making the right of food and health for all citizens of the world. The U$ has repeatedly denied allowing Africa to make generic versions of drugs that would save countless lives. These drugs have been called Weapons of Mass Salvation. The money spent on countless incursions and wars all over the globe, as well as for example the billions of dollars in foreign aid to israel each year could easily feed the poor and hungry in a humanitarian effort.

Not knowing exactly the circumstances of the second photo, I would assume it's safe to guess that that was taken in Iraq.

*Economic sanctions crippled the civilian population there. Clean water, plentiful food...just weren't available. The UN stated that Iraq with the sanctions had about 5% of it's clean water capacity due to the repeated bombings of water and sewerage facilities. Approximately 500,000 children died from cholera and dysentary. This all occured of course because of global strategic positioning and oil.

The third and fourth pictures, if we can assume they are from depression era U$ should need no explanation.

*Corporate profit taking and speculation directly affected the working class, forcing them from their homes, denying them the basic tools for survival. The picture really says it all.

Fourth picture....see first example.

In a land where people are dying from obesity, it is a crime against humanity to allow these kind of tragedies.


So again, what does capitalism have to do with this?


That is what capitalism does for us....
making money is better than saving lifes....

(Edited by NeedForRevolution at 4:15 pm on May 8, 2003)

[Sabocat]

Quote: from von Mises on 9:11 pm on May 8, 2003

Quote: from Disgustapated on 12:36 pm on May 8, 2003
Okay...lets take the first picture. I am going to make the assumption that that is a picture of a starving child in Africa.

*The U$ has repeatedly voted against UN resolutions, making the right of food and health for all citizens of the world. The U$ has repeatedly denied allowing Africa to make generic versions of drugs that would save countless lives. These drugs have been called Weapons of Mass Salvation. The money spent on countless incursions and wars all over the globe, as well as for example the billions of dollars in foreign aid to israel each year could easily feed the poor and hungry in a humanitarian effort.

Not knowing exactly the circumstances of the second photo, I would assume it's safe to guess that that was taken in Iraq.

*Economic sanctions crippled the civilian population there. Clean water, plentiful food...just weren't available. The UN stated that Iraq with the sanctions had about 5% of it's clean water capacity due to the repeated bombings of water and sewerage facilities. Approximately 500,000 children died from cholera and dysentary. This all occured of course because of global strategic positioning and oil.

The third and fourth pictures, if we can assume they are from depression era U$ should need no explanation.

*Corporate profit taking and speculation directly affected the working class, forcing them from their homes, denying them the basic tools for survival. The picture really says it all.

Fourth picture....see first example.

In a land where people are dying from obesity, it is a crime against humanity to allow these kind of tragedies.


So again, what does capitalism have to do with this?


Are you saying that capitalism doesn't inflict pain and suffering on the third world?

Capitalism by definition would seem to put profits before people. No? How would you say it has nothing to do with capitalism?

[Voice of Reason]

wait a sec....... what country gives the most foriegn aid again?

dont make this stupid type of argument. even if you do the same argument can be made against you because you have to concede the fact that if capitalism makes you hungry...... then communism makes you dead.

good luck wasting your time waiting for your revolution that wont occur until we have at least 1000 more years of social progress.

[dopediana]

Quote: from Voice of Reason on 8:14 pm on May 8, 2003
wait a sec....... what country gives the most foriegn aid again?

dont make this stupid type of argument. even if you do the same argument can be made against you because you have to concede the fact that if capitalism makes you hungry...... then communism makes you dead.

good luck wasting your time waiting for your revolution that wont occur until we have at least 1000 more years of social progress.

first of all, bite me.

second of all, a properly initiated communist or socialist country will be able to provide for everything the people need so long as everyone pulls their weight. i hope you're a rich bugger so you can stand by what you say but when you're a bum on the streets you'll wish you had a job and were provided for.

third of all, though the usa gives the most foreign aid, it's because they have a helluva lot more money to spend than other countries. and even then, the percentage of our money that we donate is far less than anyone else.

i'm still waiting for your voice of reason to break through all our brilliant political philosophy.

[Hate Is Art]

The World Grows enough food to feed everyone and has enough fresh water for nearly twice as many people alive. The ammount of money U$A spends on Ice Cream p.a. alone could provide clean water to all third world nations for 2 years . The ammount of money that gets spent gambling in UK each year could provide a home to a quarter of all homeless people in Britain or fresh water for a year in Africa. over 50 million people around the world live on less than a dollar a year. For every dollar of aid UK and U$A give they recive another 2 in debt interest and repayment. Great That isn't it

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Voice of Reason on 8:14 pm on May 8, 2003
wait a sec....... what country gives the most foriegn aid again?

dont make this stupid type of argument. even if you do the same argument can be made against you because you have to concede the fact that if capitalism makes you hungry...... then communism makes you dead.

good luck wasting your time waiting for your revolution that wont occur until we have at least 1000 more years of social progress.


Which nation is owed the most third world dept?

Let me guess AMERICA...

Uncle Sam see's a poverty stricken nation coming out of its deppression and making some money. Sam turns into Capatin Americaaaaaa!!!!!. He flies to the country and lends them 3 billion dollers at only 30% interest above infalation per annum, trippling there national dept in only 9 years! What a kind man is Uncle Sam AKA Captain AMERICAAAAA!!!!!

Thank god for the USA!!!!! Increasing third world dept near YOU!.

I aught to make apostert of that... it would be pritty cool.

[dopediana]

Quote: from AK47 on 8:57 pm on May 8, 2003

Quote: from Voice of Reason on 8:14 pm on May 8, 2003
wait a sec....... what country gives the most foriegn aid again?

dont make this stupid type of argument. even if you do the same argument can be made against you because you have to concede the fact that if capitalism makes you hungry...... then communism makes you dead.

good luck wasting your time waiting for your revolution that wont occur until we have at least 1000 more years of social progress.


Which nation is owed the most third world dept?

Let me guess AMERICA...

Uncle Sam see's a poverty stricken nation coming out of its deppression and making some money. Sam turns into Capatin Americaaaaaa!!!!!. He flies to the country and lends them 3 billion dollers at only 30% interest above infalation per annum, trippling there national dept in only 9 years! What a kind man is Uncle Sam AKA Captain AMERICAAAAA!!!!!

Thank god for the USA!!!!! Increasing third world dept near YOU!.

I aught to make apostert of that... it would be pritty cool.

YES AK47!!!!!
the IMF and world bank can kiss my french/brazilian ass. thanks to them, brazil and just about every other south american country is suffering. they've FUCKING PAID THEIR DEBTS OVER TIME AND TIME AGAIN but that INTEREST IS KILLING THEM. brazilians pray to a fucking SAINT OF DEBTORS but they just keep getting their cars and homes impounded and shit.

i had a huge argument over this with some cappie and he kept saying "they haven't paid their debt". "like fuck they haven't! they've paid it multiple times!" "but not the interest" "fucking pardon it already! enough is enough!"

i almost spit in his eye. sorry i'm saying fuck so much. it's my new favorite word.

[The Muckraker]

Just a small not, but it should be mentioned that much of the aid given by the US is not in the form of cash but of food, and that food is often genetically modified, which benefits US corporations. Zambia, as I recall, not long ago refused such aid.

This is especially bad for nations who grow food for export to Europe, which isn't very fond of a lot of GM products. The question is whether the US is genuinely trying to help nations or its domestic companies.

[Anonymous]

What's with you people and GM food?

[von Mises]

Quote: from Disgustapated on 5:14 pm on May 8, 2003


Are you saying that capitalism doesn't inflict pain and suffering on the third world?

Capitalism by definition would seem to put profits before people. No? How would you say it has nothing to do with capitalism?


No, no, no. If capitalism would inflict this, why haven't we had people dying from hunger?

Capitalism has nothing to do with what is happening now. If you were instead arguing that we should have free trade and you really hate western governments for blocking their products I am your partner.

So if you think that this is capitalism you clearly haven't read about it or you're really really really stupid.

And Muckraker, any union will oppose opening up markets since it will cause a lot of unemployment. ;-)

[The Muckraker]

Dark Capitalist,

That's not really the question, is it? I understand you might want to change the subject, but my post was about US aid and the form it often takes. If one is offering aid, shouldn't it take a useful form? The US confronts a man dying of thirst and offers him toast from a domestic toast corporation. That's not aid, that's self-interest masquerading as humanitarianism.

If the US wants to genuinely help other nations, I think that's great. One of the best ways would be to stop propping up corrupt regimes for the benefit of US corporations. But even in the area of direct aid, the US falls far short. Even Bush's much-heralded AIDS plan for Africa is disingenuous, adding restrictions where none had existed before.

Public relations is not aid. It's cynical politicking of the worst kind.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 10:13 pm on May 8, 2003
What's with you people and GM food?


I wrote an essay about this for biology coursework.

basically the problem is mainly with the whole "unnatural" nature and "alienness" of the food in a time when we're meant to be promoting organic and so called health foods, although this is an opinion generally held by lesser educated people. However some who know more realise that creating anti-biotic resistance genes isn't a good idea, however there are far more problematic ways of creating antibiotic resistant bacteria (such as feeding animals sub-theraputic doses of antibiotics.) People disagree with the use of antibiotic resistant bacteria in protein manufacture for obvious reasons, however such bacteria include a "suicide gene" which prevents bacteria leaving the lab and kills them if they do.

Genetic Engineering might be able to give us an AIDS vaccine, but no one's willing to exchange the data with people who have ideas.

[The Muckraker]

And Muckraker, any union will oppose opening up markets since it will cause a lot of unemployment.

Uh, okay. I didn't say anything about the subject but rather talked about the form of US aid, but okay.

It's funny, though. You say you're for opening up markets, and then that it will cause unemployment. So, by your own words, you're for higher unemployment. Interesting economics you've got there, Mises.

[von Mises]

No, actually corporate mercantilists and socialists are in a dark alliance to protect one own's markets for cheaper third world products.

[Sabocat]

Quote: from von Mises on 3:19 am on May 9, 2003

Quote: from Disgustapated on 5:14 pm on May 8, 2003


Are you saying that capitalism doesn't inflict pain and suffering on the third world?

Capitalism by definition would seem to put profits before people. No? How would you say it has nothing to do with capitalism?


No, no, no. If capitalism would inflict this, why haven't we had people dying from hunger?

Capitalism has nothing to do with what is happening now. If you were instead arguing that we should have free trade and you really hate western governments for blocking their products I am your partner.

So if you think that this is capitalism you clearly haven't read about it or you're really really really stupid.

And Muckraker, any union will oppose opening up markets since it will cause a lot of unemployment. ;-)


You're kidding right? Free trade? So you're saying that you think the starving of the world are starving because we don't have free trade with them? What are they supposed to trade with? They don't have any money to buy food stuffs in most cases and don't have anything to sell to the U.$.

Why haven't we had people dying from hunger? I don't know where you live, but maybe you need to look around a bit. Below is a report done by the University of Michigan.

http://www.msue.msu.edu/fnh/hunger/toolbox/hunger.html

Hunger Report

Hunger in America
Americans are increasingly relying on food pantry services. Second Harvest estimates that 26 million people rely on emergency services to obtain food. Of these 26 million people, 75% have income under $10,000, only 35% are employed, and 60% have been on food stamps for one year or more. Reliance on food stamps is growing: there were 20 million food stamp recipients in 1990 and 26 million in 1996. Most people relying on food stamps are children.

Position of the American Dietetic Association
Chronic hunger due to poverty is more widespread than acute hunger due to famine. Of preschool-aged children in developing countries, 36% are moderately or severely malnourished (based on weight for age). Since 1985, hunger in the US has increased because of underfunding by the US government.

Nutrition and Cognitive Development in Children
Moderate undernutrition is the type most commonly seen in the United States, poverty being the primary factor leading to undernutrition in children. Though termed moderate, undernutrition has long-lasting effects on the cognitive development of children including the possibility of leading to educational failure.

Then of course there is national hunger day...

http://www.hungerday.org/

Are you suggesting that none of these people are hungry due to capitalism? I would suggest that a quick search for homeless and hungry in Cuba, (socialist) you would find things like this:

http://www.saonet.ucla.edu/osd/docs/Newsle...Spring.htm#Cuba (http://www.saonet.ucla.edu/osd/docs/Newsletter/1999Spring.htm#Cuba)

We were all aware that we were visiting a country with a socialist system of government that has existed for forty years under the leadership of Fidel Castro. We were eager to meet the people and learn first hand how they were doing. The director of the Council of Churches had divided us up into pairs and assigned us to hosts who had volunteered their homes and their hospitality.

Phyllis, a friend, and I became the guests of Guillermo and Isabella Hernandez who lived about forty minutes outside of Havana. This turned out to be an advantage. We experienced a rural life style with roosters, hens and pigs outside our bedroom window. I can attest to roosters crowing much before dawn and to pigs oinking at odd hours. Sleeplessness notwithstanding, we managed to start the day with a cold shower (no hot water available) and eat a nourishing breakfast of juice, bread, cheese, eggs and a delicious Cuban coffee.

After breakfast we were driven through sugar cane fields, vegetable gardens, lanes of banyan trees and acres of greenery. All the participants congregated at the Council of Churches to start our days of sight seeing, visiting historical places, shopping at flea markets, eating at local restaurants, touring museums and walking through Old Havana. We were driven in pre-Castro American Chevys and Fords that dated back to the fifties. The newer cars had come from Russia. All were in sad states of disrepair but managed to clink along. Best of all we were always in the company of Cubans who were eager to show us their country and were proud of many of their achievements. They spoke highly of their educational, medical and social progress. They voiced dissatisfaction with the embargo that kept them from getting needed supplies, medicines, and material necessities. While we saw no homeless or hungry, we saw a society that was struggling to maintain itself. Buildings are in a state of decay and there is no money for repairs.

As far as me being really, really, really stupid and not understanding capitalism, all I can offer on that score is that I have lived in the home of capitalism my entire life (41 years), and I own a small technology business. I believe that qualifies me as having some thoughts, ideas, and understanding of a system that leaves people behind and disenfranchises them.

[Vietnow]

the us are too busy making sure other people dont break any sanctions to make sure they arent breaking their own.

[von Mises]

Disgustapated,

I live in the Netherlands, not the US. Here we have for instance the European Union which is subsidizing farmers. Because of this we have too much food here, since the more you produce the more you get subsidized. furthermore, if a cuban farmer wants to export his sugar to Holland he gets taxed an extra 100%.

If there genuily was free trade, as capitalism implies, we would buy the cuban sugar (which is produced cheaper) and both he and I would be happy. Instead his harvest is worthless thanks to the dumping of our left overs.

This is essentially the reason why people in third world countries are starving, next to people like Mugabe.

Of course you can blame governments and companies. Companies will always try to protect their interest, but this can only be done with the use of governments as they can block trades or impose taxes. All true capitalists will oppose this behaviour violently.

If you can provide me with an essay on capitalism which clearly states that "capitalism is all about screwing poorer countries and using governments to protect your market" I will turn instandly into a communist.

[GCusack]

lover boy, cappie scum boy watever ur real name is! How much of a cock are u?! i get the impression u live in the land of the 'free'? U called his a stupid thread!!

[Sabocat]

Quote: from von Mises on 12:03 am on May 10, 2003
Disgustapated,

I live in the Netherlands, not the US. Here we have for instance the European Union which is subsidizing farmers. Because of this we have too much food here, since the more you produce the more you get subsidized. furthermore, if a cuban farmer wants to export his sugar to Holland he gets taxed an extra 100%.

If there genuily was free trade, as capitalism implies, we would buy the cuban sugar (which is produced cheaper) and both he and I would be happy. Instead his harvest is worthless thanks to the dumping of our left overs.

This is essentially the reason why people in third world countries are starving, next to people like Mugabe.

Of course you can blame governments and companies. Companies will always try to protect their interest, but this can only be done with the use of governments as they can block trades or impose taxes. All true capitalists will oppose this behaviour violently.

If you can provide me with an essay on capitalism which clearly states that "capitalism is all about screwing poorer countries and using governments to protect your market" I will turn instandly into a communist.





Well you have just said that because of your capatalist system of having too much food, and food being thrown away...etc. Isn't that making my point? If the planet was socialist, the food would be rationed to all. It wouldn't be thrown away while poor people starve because of trade tariffs, which of course are an element of capitalism.

You seem to be constantly contradicting yourself. On one hand you say governments are blocking trade and imposing punitive tariffs to protect companies, and you say a true capitalist will vehemently oppose such dealings, yet they happen every day. Where are the true compassionate capitalists then?

Then you ask me to provide you examples of when governments of countries protect companies "markets",when you've already stated that they do. It is this protection of markets that's "screwing" the third world countries.

If you want a good example of governments using power to protect companies interests, I would suggest you look to Iraq for that answer. I believe the big benefits will be reaped by Mobil/Exxon, Shell, BP, Halliburton and the rest.

Ready to turn commie now? :biggrin:

[von Mises]

Obviously I meant people like Friedman, Hoppe, Norberg or libertarian parties etc. I recommend reading some of them to gain a better understanding of capitalism, at least then you would know that trade tariffs have nothing to do with it.

Unfortunately I have to say that you are the one mixing things up because of your lack of knowledge on the subject. Don't take this as an offence as I am not saying this in a demeaning way. Not capitalism causes the extra production, but government subsidized programs.

Any real capitalist will believe that this system is the best however that the existence of a powerful state can lead to a widespread abuse of power, just as in communism or other forms by the way. So don't believe that rimram from neo-conservative thinkthanks but pay a visit to libertarian websites.

Well, of course I don't mean examples of abuses but writings of for instance Rand, Friedman etc where a capitalist makes a case for tariffs.

[Sabocat]

I never said the trade tariffs had anything to do with it. You inferred that. Tariffs are there to protect countries businesses from cheap outside imports. That protects corporate bottom lines. It doesn't feed the poor.

How are government subsidies (which according to you create the overproduction of food) of any relevance to people starving in third world or even the industrialized nations for that matter? If indeed there is overproduction, and starving people don't get the fruits of that overproduction isn't that the fault of capitalism?

Where in the tenets of capitalism does it say that over abundance of food and humanitarian supplies are to be distributed equally to the poor? It doesn't.

The principle behind capitalism is profit, yes?
If we agree on that, then how can someone with no money or means, acquire food?

The U$ is capitalist yes? There are people starving in the U$. If it's not the fault of a capitalism, who is or what is at fault?

[von Mises]

No, the starting point was that there was no free trade. Trade liberalisation, thus letting tariffs go, will better their position. Read the data.

[quote]How are government subsidies (which according to you create the overproduction of food) of any relevance to people starving in third world or even the industrialized nations for that matter[/quote[

I am sorry to say but if you don't see this connection then you're really naive or just lack knowledge.

Furthermore, humanitarian aid is given every year to various countries. I could tell you more about the counterproductivity of this and the strange habits of African dictators but that's another discussion.

You assumption that people in third world countries have no means is false. But for that I just point out for instance Hernando de Soto, maybe you heard about him.

Capitalism is just an economic system which can go hand in hand with liberals, anarchists, centrist, conservatives etc. You should focus on the political systems and not the economic one. You'd make it much easier for yourself.

[Sabocat]

Okay. I think we both know that you're talking about theoretical capitalism. Unfortunately, I'm not talking theoretical, I'm talking practical. Unfortunately, we live in a political world. Politics and economics go hand in hand. To blame starvation on politics alone would be naive. Politics and politicians support economic systems.

Please don't insult me. I understand that capitalism is just a form of economics. You're the one who doesn't seem to understand that the political and economical systems are what is causing the suffering.

If government subsidies cause overproduction, and that surplus overproduction isn't provided to the starving but rather thrown away or dumped, what difference does it make if you blame the politics, or economics? The end result is the same.

Bottom line. People are starving even in the U$, lets forget about Africa for the moment. Why are people starving and homeless in the U$? It is due to the capitalist system here. You can't just blame the politics. Democrats, Republicans, Centrist etc. all have dirty hands when it comes to homelessness and starvation. That leaves only one culprit doesn't it?

So in all your infinite wisdom, why are people starving? Who's at fault then? Why aren't people starving to death in the streets of Cuba then? You can't blame dictatorships only. There are many places that don't have dictators that have starving people.

[von Mises]

We haven't got any real capitalist countries in this world, they're all mixed economy with both capitalism and socialism, so we get the worst of both.

And about your result, the politicians are the ones who decide and have the so called monopoly on the use of force. Us simple citizens can't do anything about it besides voting once every four or five years.

All evil comes from governments whether they are conservative, liberal, socialist whatever. People are hungry for power and if you want to have real power you need to become president. And after that people start doing crazy things.

That we live in a political world is a lame excuse. You can't blame any capitalist because Bush or any politician is doing such a poor job. No real capitalist will defend Bush just as no real communist will defend Stalin or Kim Jung Il.