Why greed is not human nature

[Comrade B]

Lets say, hypothetically, greed were a part of human nature. Humans would horde everything they can get their hands on and make sure that others don't get a share of what they have earned. Lets create a society.

Albert is strong, he takes what he needs from everyone else.

Billy is weak, he has little to physically contribute to the society.

Charles is a hunter, he gets the food for this little tribe.

Darcy is intelligent and can find shelter for the tribe when it is raining/snowing/something else bad

One day, a harsh winter comes, Billy dies of starvation.
Charles tries to keep his food from Albert, so Albert kills him.
Darcy has no food because Albert is dead, Darcy dies of starvation.
Charles has no more source of food, no shelter, and no other human contact. He dies, after going insane from isolation.

If greed were a part of human nature, humans would never have come into existence. Greed is trained.

[Junius]

On December 13 the tzarina suggest to the tzar: “Anything but this responsible ministry about which everybody has gone crazy. Everything is getting quiet and better, but people want to feel your hand. How long they have been saying to me, for whole years, the same thing: ’Russia loves to feel the whip.’ That is their nature!” This orthodox Hessian, with a Windsor upbringing and a Byzantine crown on her head, not only “incarnates” the Russian soul, but also organicaly despises it. Their nature demands the whip – writes the Russian tzarina to the Russian tzar about the Russian people, just two months and a half before the monarchy tips over into the abyss.

Leon Trotsky, The History of the Russian Revolution

There's the reliability of the 'human nature' argument for you.

[ashaman1324]

in a capitalist world its perfectly understandable to want to hoarde resources, or as most commonly seen. money.
nobody can be sure what exactly lies on the stocks tomorrow and its only a hope for self- preservation that makes people greedy.
in a socialist society this wouldnt be an issue, therefore people dont need to be greedy to survive.

[Catbus]

Lets say, hypothetically, greed were a part of human nature. Humans would horde everything they can get their hands on and make sure that others don't get a share of what they have earned. Lets create a society.

Albert is strong, he takes what he needs from everyone else.

Billy is weak, he has little to physically contribute to the society.

Charles is a hunter, he gets the food for this little tribe.

Darcy is intelligent and can find shelter for the tribe when it is raining/snowing/something else bad

One day, a harsh winter comes, Billy dies of starvation.
Charles tries to keep his food from Albert, so Albert kills him.
Darcy has no food because Albert is dead, Darcy dies of starvation.
Charles has no more source of food, no shelter, and no other human contact. He dies, after going insane from isolation.

If greed were a part of human nature, humans would never have come into existence. Greed is trained.

That's a really good alliteration, I'll definitely use that the next time the subject of inherent human greed comes up.

[cyu]

This is the view I like. From http://www.thisisby.us/index.php/content/reconciling_property_rights_with_conquest#comment-361958

"unfortunately the confounding influence of greed and sloth can't be avoided. Human nature is flawed and selfish, there must be systems in place to to mitigate these truths."

You may think you're being a realist (or cynic) when you say this, but I have a different, yet still cynical (or realist) view of human nature: humans are not greedy by nature - instead they are easily brainwashed. This means if you have a media dominated by Hindu or Buddhist messages, then most of the people in that society will grow up to be Hindus or Buddhists. If you happen to have a society full of greedy (or at least materialistic) people, all you need to do is look at the mass media. The mass media is basically funded by advertisements, so basically people in your society are brainwashed to be materialistic in the same way other nations brainwash their people to follow certain religions or different political ideologies. It may not be intentional, but the end result is still the same.

Sure, many religions in advertisement-led media cultures are against materialism, but how much time do the people in those societies listen to sermons against consumerism, and how much time do they spend listening to ads?

Personally, I just see ads as a tool. You can either advertise useless goods and try to get people to want them, or you can use the psychological skills of your marketers to convince people to do useful things.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

They're not 'greedy,' but humans do prioritize themselves above others in a lot of scenarios. Let's not throw away the baby in the bath water.

[disobey]

I'm in agreement regarding humans not being greedy by nature. Overlooked I think is the relation of capitalism (and the concept of property) in creating a "culture of greed".

Capitalism creates an inherent inequality in society and coupled with the mass media and advertising in the system aluded to by cyu. Knowing that the system excels at formenting competition between individual and capitalist alike, a scramble for material wealth ensues. We see this in nature also of course, so my initial reaction would be to assume that this is 'natural'; for example herds of animals consuming all available natural resources in their immediate area and occasionally killing rivals in order to secure territory and a food source before moving on to the next area. Animals have been known to do this, so it could be described as instinctual behaviour, even though the majority of nature maintains a meaningful, perpetual equilibrium for most of the time.

I think it is the human capacity for abstract thought, communication through speech and the ability to resolve problems without physical interaction (violence) that promotes the idea of the greed-less society in which instinct need not be surpressed, merely overlaid with common understanding - rather than the lacking forward planning and short-termism that we are accustomed to.

I was going to make a really bang-on concise point at the end, but as usual I've forgotten it.