Why did the Soviet Union fall? - explain why you think the u

[DayOfTheDestroyer]

I think it was because the people were selfish and didn't want to work for the good of everyone.

[Dirty Commie]

Or they feared another world war like invasion and were so preoccupied with their military defense and left out planning for the future of the soviet economy.
I kinda ripped the idea off of some one elses post I saw a month ago.

[Pete]

A short explanation.

The CCCP was dismantled because the Polituburo was ignoring what the people really wanted and started to work against the proletariat (revisionism and such) so the people voted for an alternative and thus no more CCCP. The dangers of revisionism...

[Anonymous]

They couldn't keep up with the U.S. militarily and economically.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 10:08 pm on May 3, 2003)

[Pete]

I believe (and if Joon reads this he can back me up) the Soviets had America whipped when it came to military technology with their fighters, tanks, and nukes...

Economically, that is all relative. Less people where starving in the CCCP than are in America today.

[The Muckraker]

A US-centric argument, such as the USSR couldn't compete with the USA, is lacking in many ways. Rather than an argument, it's a cheer for the West. Even the most superficial analysis must take into account the internal power struggle between the Gorbachev camp (hardliners) and the Yeltsin camp (radicals).

Glasnost also played a big role in that the media became free to report on the crimes of former rulers as well as question the policies of the current one. With this rush of information, there was a backlash against the Party rulers. Perestroika was not working quickly enough and Yeltsin, who wanted a Western-style economy, took advantage of the situation. Remember too that there was a coup in 1991 against Gorbachev by people who thought he was going too far. The Eastern Bloc was set free from Soviet control not because of anything the USA did but because Gorbachev reversed the Brezhnev doctrine of interfering with the internal politcs of Russia's neighbors in order to insure a favorable outcome for the motherland.

Books have been written about all of this, of course, and that's probably a better source of information than me. It's important to remember, though, that the Reaganite cheerleading is simply Republican propaganda that does not serve to educate but only seeks to give credit where no credit is due and affirm to the GOP faithful that they were right all along. As we can plainly see from the lies upon which the Iraq invasion was based, Republicans don't care too much for the truth, only for favorable press, and the obedient media serve their master well.

The Muckraker

(Edited by The Muckraker at 12:31 am on May 4, 2003)


(Edited by The Muckraker at 12:38 am on May 4, 2003)

[t29dmoney]

The reason why the Soviet Union fell was because people living in the soviet union got tired of not being able to elect the people to represent their countries, is that not one of the reasons for the cold war, "Free Elections." Gorbachev was great for the people of the Soviet Union. Sure he introduced "Glasnost" and the hardliners didn't like it, but it was time for change. They couldn't keep up with the US in the arms race. They needed to feed their people, they didn't have the time nor money to engage in a competition. the fall of the soviet union was great for all of the former soviet states. why do u think that when the Russian leader tried to make another alliance almost none of the former soviet states joined. they didn't join because they were tired of being forced to live under a dictator.

[Liberty Lover]

If it had not been for the Reagan defense buildup, if the United States had not demonstrated that it is willing not only to stand up for freedom but to devote considerable sums of money to defending it, the USSR would still be oppressing its citizens today.

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 6:11 am on May 4, 2003)

[The Muckraker]

t29dmoney,

Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on the "arms race" portion of your post. It's my understanding that the USSR had enough nuclear missiles to destroy the USA. This was all part of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). After a point, there's really no need for more, and everyone knew this. The Reagan military budget wasn't about protecting the US from the Soviet Unioin, for no one wanted a war in which there would be no winner, but rather a payoff to the Military-Industrial complex: public money for private enterprise. It was through this very deficit spending that Reagan was able to fuel the economy, but once the deficit got too large, the economy stagnated and Bush, who as a candidate called Reagan's plan "voodoo economics," inherited the mess. It should also be noted that the "growth" during the Reagan years was largely on paper. Only 77,000 citizens were lifted out of poverty during Reagan's terms, compared to the 8.2 million during Clinton's terms. (In Bush's one term, 6.5 million were actually lowered into poverty.)

So, I can't really see where the "arms race" enters into the picture during the years of Gorbachev.

[Sensitive]

The crisis in Russia (http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/sam93/1993html/s931014.htm)

[Solzhenitsyn]

When it was all said and done, nobody really believed in the vision articulated by Marxist-Leninism. Sure, they spouted the same tired political slogans and school and work carried on the massive propaganda. Nobody believed it. To many lives had been brutalized, destroyed, or just plain disappeared.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Kruschev folded in the Cuban Missilie Crisis.

First sign that USSR was going to give in to America, and so it continued....

[hazard]

what makes you think it fell?

[notyetacommie]

The people of the USSR actually voted AGAINST dissolving it seven months prior to the criminal act commited by Yeltsin. I keep meeting people from all over the former USSR who say that they still feel that they belong to the USSR, and it was the politicians who created the borders between the peoples. It is worth mentioned that ALL the inductrial enterprises in the republics were built in the Soviet times. By engineers, and workers from all other republics, many of these engineers and workers were from Russia. Many of them have stopped working.

It is notable that the first decree issued by Putin was that the former President(Yeltsin) was not to be subject to law suits, he could not be prosecuted for the crimes, committed when in power. Why would he issue this if Yeltsin did no crime?

[hazard]

i think its only a matter of time before the USSR rises, like the phoenix, from the ashes and decay it currently is. whether it is through the democratic will of the people are yet another coup remains to be seen. works either way for me.

[nz revolution]

It was a system based on coercion people got sick of this, they got sick of being conscripted into the army, probably got sick of seeing party members living the high life... hence the coup de'tat won even though the majority didn't support it.

[HankMorgan]

Quote: from Solzhenitsyn on 9:42 am on May 4, 2003
When it was all said and done, nobody really believed in the vision articulated by Marxist-Leninism. Sure, they spouted the same tired political slogans and school and work carried on the massive propaganda. Nobody believed it. To many lives had been brutalized, destroyed, or just plain disappeared.


The quote above and your signature say it best, Solzhenitsyn.

Reagen deserves credit for jump starting the US after the disaster that was Carter but the USSR fell on it's own.

[notyetacommie]

The coup won because people were very pessimistic about the rulers, both Yeltsin and the previous one- Gorbatchev; and the popular sentiment was no matter who is in offfice, the life will still be bad.

[Kapitan Andrey]

Dark Capitalist...SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! WE COULD DESTROY u$ by our nuclear weapon!!! But it would be the last day of the Earth!!!

Socialsmo o Muerte...stupid!!!

It was a compromiss!!! And what did you wanted? To destroy Earth!? MORON!!!

CCCP faled because of WEAK economy!!! And stupid communist leaders!!!

[Solzhenitsyn]

Kapitan Andrey Vlasov?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 6:10 am on May 4, 2003
If it had not been for the Reagan defense buildup, if the United States had not demonstrated that it is willing not only to stand up for freedom but to devote considerable sums of money to defending it, the USSR would still be oppressing its citizens today.

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 6:11 am on May 4, 2003)



Defending Freedom? Like defending it in Africa?

US is so great why the fuck yall aint help out Ruwonda

[Solzhenitsyn]

The US is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. We really shouldn't have done anything to Serbia either. Why should the US be involved in every internal political dispute around the world?

[ComradeJunichi]

Yes, Pete, I agree with you as you would know.

Many people here are talking about how the people didn't want the Soviet Union any longer and all these characteristics of the Soviet people, yet they claim the Soviet Union is so un-democratic. So why talk about the people? It wasn't the people who dismantled the USSR since it's so "undemocratic".

[Sandanista]

The Soviet Union didnt really collapse, it started off state capitalist and ended up just capitalist.

That said, the people are a lot worse off now

[Goldfinger]

Only half the population of Russia oppose Stalinism, while the rest are either ambivalent or supporting him (PS: I oppose stalinism). This just shows how desperate they are to get rid of capitalism.

[immortal211]

The USSR fell because dumbass, traitor. sellout. asshole gorbachof gave in to american demands and gave other soviet states freedom to go free some didnt but he gave them away at any cost just to make the americans happy. One more thing they stopped making weapons from the late 80's so that gave them a no way out but to except the evil treaties forced by america and only america.

[damn the capitalism]

many things that leads to the collapse!
we got the glasnost in gorbachev's day,the economic policies, russia going to the west and of course mao was right when he disagree with khruchshev about his policy with the west side and the usa, of course the cold war have occupied the russian administration's minds ,leaders from the begining of the Troika till Yeltsin, the faith of the russian peoples in communism that disapeared after stalin then khruschev , i think going to the west side and to apitalism led to revisionism !
castro one day said that we must develop the marxists thoughts , he was right,but going to far to the capitalst side as bregnev and gorbachev,i think it's a big mistake!

[the SovieT]

for those taht dont know, the people still want the soviet union... if this colapsed was due to revisionists and nationalist morons like yelstin taht fooled the people with honey and bread... the years of bad rulings of Kruschev and others made the union colapse...

the afghanistan war was also a ow blow for the republic..
you talk about democracy..
yet now that russia has "democracy" the mob does not only operate freely but it also controls most of the politics and economy of russia...
now that they have democracy hunger is felt in many regions and several cases of homeless people as well...
dont fool yourself... this isnt democracy! its bourgeouse libertarianism...

no mather how violent and repressive the soviet union was still there to protect the workers rights around the globe.. it protected and helped many other socialist states... Like cuba and north korea... that started to colapse right after the fall of the union...
if this is a leap forward then i dont dare to imagine what would be a leap backwards...

i also would like to remember you all that before the fall of the soviet union the american empire didnt dared to make such vicious and pre-emptive attacks to other countrys... robing them and raping them discriminaly and without any trace of shame or morals that they so much defend and preach...

if THIS is democracy..
then i am the bigest anti-democratic you will ever see...

socialism isnt buit in litle bourgeouse libertarian policys...
as Mao said "Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. "
socialism isnt all about love... its also the popular struggle to eleminate the elite classes.. by force if necessary..

[Reinis]

May i ask you an idiotic question?
do you really think communism is good?
well, i mean almost all of the inhabitants of Latviam are happy now not to have communism, but a democracy.
and i think the people of russia are also happier now. well, a paret of them.
so why did noone really like the USSR?
can there be a better communism than it was in the USSR?

you can call me an idiot, iïl understand you, but i cannot figure this out.
nobody actually waS HAPPY LIVING IN COMMUNISM. THATS A FACT

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from Reinis on 2:27 pm on May 6, 2003
May i ask you an idiotic question?
do you really think communism is good?
well, i mean almost all of the inhabitants of Latviam are happy now not to have communism, but a democracy.
and i think the people of russia are also happier now. well, a paret of them.
so why did noone really like the USSR?
can there be a better communism than it was in the USSR?

you can call me an idiot, iïl understand you, but i cannot figure this out.
nobody actually waS HAPPY LIVING IN COMMUNISM. THATS A FACT

May i ask you an idiotic question?

Did I have a choice?

do you really think communism is good?

Obviously, yes.

well, i mean almost all of the inhabitants of Latviam are happy now not to have communism, but a democracy.

And how about Moldova/Moldovia a few years ago?

and i think the people of russia are also happier now. well, a paret of them.

Actually, that's not true. Why do you think Russians are happier now?

so why did noone really like the USSR?

The Soviets had enemies ever since the start of the revolution. Capitalists can't stand the ideals of the communist, and are paranoid of red exportation.

can there be a better communism than it was in the USSR?

There is always better, and this depends on the time period of the Soviet Union.

you can call me an idiot, iïl understand you, but i cannot figure this out.

No, I would never call you an idiot. Especially for just asking questions, unless you said something really stupid.

nobody actually waS HAPPY LIVING IN COMMUNISM. THATS A FACT

Jesus Christ, you're a fucking idiot.

[Reinis]

guess i am.
sorry. i was just thinking. people had no food in communism (i'm not saying that they have it now), but still. have you ever lived in a communism?
and have you been a simple worker?

[ComradeJunichi]

Quote: from Reinis on 2:53 pm on May 6, 2003
guess i am.
sorry. i was just thinking. people had no food in communism (i'm not saying that they have it now), but still. have you ever lived in a communism?
and have you been a simple worker?

I'm fifteen and was born into a more fortunate family, so no, I haven't been a "simple worker". I've never lived in a socialist state either.

People had no food in communism? That's absolutely ridiculous, please state your sources.

[smith196]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 1:55 pm on May 5, 2003

Quote: from Liberty Lover on 6:10 am on May 4, 2003
If it had not been for the Reagan defense buildup, if the United States had not demonstrated that it is willing not only to stand up for freedom but to devote considerable sums of money to defending it, the USSR would still be oppressing its citizens today.

(Edited by Liberty Lover at 6:11 am on May 4, 2003)


The USA gives out the most foriegn aid actually.

Defending Freedom? Like defending it in Africa?

US is so great why the fuck yall aint help out Ruwonda


The US gives out the most aid actually.