sup with the authoritarianism? - a general qustion

[Gaddafi]

Why do they not allow people with opposing points of view to post on other forums? Granted I do not like Nazis, Fascists, Falangists, Stalinists and Maoists any more than the next guy here, but simply shutting people up is un-progressive, arrogant, un-democratic and all in all un-leftist! Does anyone else here agree, I mean all of the other boards are all dominated by people with generally the same views, how can there be any debates? It just doesn't make any sense! I do not mean to offend, but I just find this really strange for such a revlutionary website, u know the Communist Party in my country would never do such a thing and rather than scarring people away with different ideas, they do something that I greatly respect, they try to convince the masses to support their cause! What are you all so afraid of, let all of the masses be heard!

[synthesis]

This isn't a country, it's a community. It's run by and paid for by private individuals.

Honestly, we give the opposition too much freedom. There was a capitalist a couple weeks ago who constantly advised other members to commit suicide (in complete seriousness) and made threads like "I hereby claim this forum American" and other such nonsense.

I don't think the administration even warned him.

If the opposition wants to debate - and this is not a debate board, it's a community board - there's nothing stopping them. They just have to do it in here.

By the way, we don't restrict Stalinists and Maoists on principle.

And about your "simply shutting people up is un-leftist" comment... we have never banned anyone simply for presenting their views. Never. Restricting people isn't shutting them up, it's merely confining their idiocy to one massive hellhole.

Last thing... just to clear things up, you're from Libya, correct?

[Liberty Lover]

Quote: from DyerMaker on 9:09 am on May 3, 2003
This isn't a country, it's a community. It's run by and paid for by private individuals.


It's good to see you advocating capitalist concepts like private property, DyerMaker.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Like it or not, private property exists in this world we live in, because it is capitalist in nature. We happen to feel that sucks, that doesn't mean we have the option to declare ourselves outside of the system.

We still have to pay taxes, we still have to pay for having websites up. The world does not indulge our private feelings on this matter.

--- G.

[Gaddafi]

Well though I know what it is like to have to deal with rightist ass holes (the old RATM message board was filled with Neo-Nazi skinheads by the time I left) it does seem kind of ridiculous to restrict people from taking part in debates (or sorry, discussions) because they do not agree with socialism. You say this is a "community", so what exactly does that mean because Im rather new here! Do you all just keep isolated from the real world and talk among yourselves and use big intellectual sounding words??? Leftists like that really bug me, and that does not sound very fair that you forbide average Centrists, Liberal Capitalists, and Moderate Conservatives but allow Stalinists and Maoists, most of them (and I have debated and associated closely with both regretably) act more like Holocaust-deniers than real socialists by denying the failed economic policies of both Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao and denying the millions murdered needlessly by both.

:confused:

[Gaddafi]

Dhul Fiqar, you are right this world is dominated by Capitalists and we cannot over come it by isolating ourselves from it, so why not take on the enemies of socialism head on, through fair and democratic discussion. I just found the strong and agressive wording of the notice on this message board, forbidding people of non-socialist orientation to speak very strange and rather authoritarian. Also, sorry to dissapoint anyone but Im not Libyan, I am from what will one day be the Peoples Socialist Canadian Jamahyra, LOL.

[redstar2000]

Gaddafi, who has been "silenced" that you think we were "unleftist" to do that?

Or, who is not here that you wish was here?

And exactly why does it bother you if we sometimes use "big intellectual sounding words"? Are there particular words that offend you?

If you look over a reasonable sample of the threads on this board, you will find a great deal of heated discussion on questions that interest us...concerning the history of communism and its possible future(s), concerning the nature of imperialism and how to fight it, concerning the best way(s) to analyze capitalism, past and future. Within a roughly "left" context, there is enormous controversy on this board.

The people whose absence you seem to be concerned with have nothing of interest to say to us. Do you really want to read the 500th rehash of "why communism can't work" or "Bush is fighting for freedom" or "the Jews are behind everything"? What would be the point of debating in a serious way with idiots?

This particular forum, Opposing Ideologies, has only one legitimate purpose in my view: the occasional intelligent kid who still accepts all or most of the crap s/he's been taught to believe but is curious about the real left...and comes here to learn. They are worth talking to and taking seriously, for obvious reasons.

The anti-leftist ideologues (you know who they are) provide amusement...in small doses. In large numbers they would be toxic, especially if they were found in every forum.

I've been to boards that fit the description that you advocate, Gaddafi, and they were horrible. For every post that had anything interesting to say, there were hundreds if not thousands of mindless rants that only an incurable masochist would attempt to read through. See if you can locate a board called ThePhora and then see for yourself.

But please don't come back and tell me about it. :o

:cool:

[Saint-Just]

'the Jews are behind everything'

I have never seen a topic such as this. Certain people hacve said that there is a disproportional U.S influence in U.S. politics. But it is only neo-Nazis who talk of a world-wide Jewish order who are pulling strings we can't see.

'The anti-leftist ideologues (you know who they are) provide amusement'

Are you suggesting my ideology, and that of many others here, is anti-leftist and little more than amusing? Maybe not... I agree with some people being banned, I know some people have undeservingly been banned, but they have virtually all been allowed back on. Now, no one is being banned who does not deserve it. So I would have to disagree with Gadaffi on that point.

'I've been to boards that fit the description that you advocate, Gaddafi, and they were horrible.'

I agree very much, this site facilitates leftist based debate, which is generally productive. Although a totally open board can be desirable as long as it is dominated by people all with similar ideology. A board with equal distribtion in ideologies is undesirable.

[synthesis]

It's good to see you advocating capitalist concepts like private property, DyerMaker.

Private property is a Marxist term almost as commonly misunderstood as the 'dictatorship of the proletariat.' We don't believe the state ought to confiscate toothbrushes, lawnmowers, and toilet seats. We simply believe that the worker ought to 'confiscate' the means of production he or she operates for the benefit of someone besides them.

[redstar2000]

I guess a point of clarification is in order, Chairman Mao.

Nothing in my previous post should be construed as expressing the opinion that Stalinists, Trotskyists, Maoists, etc. -- all those who generally fall into the "Leninist paradigm" -- are not leftists.

They certainly are leftists. When I spoke of "anti-leftist ideologues", I meant those in this forum who defend bourgeois ideology explicitly.

As to the anti-semitism threads, I was speaking of the kind of board that Gaddafi appears to advocate...one that would be, for example, open to Nazis. I am not "open" to "discussing" anything with those turds. As members of the Commie Club can testify, any time one of those Nazi bastards shows up, my vote is always BAN!

Hope that helps. :cheesy:

:cool:


(Edited by redstar2000 at 8:02 pm on May 3, 2003)

[Saint-Just]

I understand that, and agree with that. Nazis of course should be banned, since they exhibit all manner of offense to people, racism and so forth.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The administration of the forums, I understand, do not wish to silence anyone. They simply wish to create an online community where socialists can discuss socialist issues, socialist theory, socialist politics, etc. Debates on socialism's basic ideals as opposed to capitalism, can be found in OI. The participation of capitalists would corrupt our discussions and provoke socialism-capitalism debates everywhere on teh boards.

Stalinists are not banned.