Refusing to pledge allegiance at school - Can you be punishe

[commieboy]

I read a post by a fellow comrade about refusing to pledge allegiance to the United states, and im guessing its in a public school. is there anyway a school can punish you for refusing to pledge allegiance to the flag? without bringing up the little, "One nation under god" excuse? i go to public school, but we dont pledge but its just a questoin that has been bothering me.

[synthesis]

I've heard numerous horror stories of schools punishing students for not reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. This is highly reminiscent of totalitarian regimes such as the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, punishing their citizens for failing to show the proper loyalty to the state.

Regardless, I don't see why any modern socialist would go to great lengths to avoid Pledging Allegiance, aside from devout athiests - the original pledge from which the current one was modeled on was written by a hardline socialist way back in the nineteenth century.

[weepingbuddha]

well, to answer your question, here in the states in public schools, the only punishment i've found people recieve for not pledging your allegence is public regection from your fellow students. i stopped a while ago, and have been accused of being a fascist, a person with anti-american sentiments, a terrorist and other things.

[RedCeltic]

Often questions like this one arise, “can they punish me for not saying the pledge?” which is similar to, “Can they fire me for organizing a union.”

The answer to both of these questions is NO… not within the law at any rate.

I believe that with the pledge, just like with union organizing, if you want the “justice” of the law to protect you on your side, you will have to endure hardship and ridicule and court process and fees to obtain it. Knowing that you are most likely not to go through this, they feel as though they can force you to do what they want you to.

They should be reminded however, that not everyone who says, “I do not wish to say the pledge” is “un-American.” Quakers, who had a part in formation of the US, are also against saying of the pledge, because their religion forbids them from saying any oath. This is how Quakers, (real ones not non practicing Quakers like Richard M. Nixon) were excluded from holding public office in the so called “land of the free.”

When I went to High School in the 1980’s, they had “moment of silence” which was their way of getting around “no prayer in school.” It was successful in bypassing the law as I recall some people saying their prayers out loud during this.

[Umoja]

Moments of silence make much more sense then moments of prayer anyway.... I personally just like the conept.

[truthaddict11]

get rid of the momement of silence it horribal.
on another note in my sociology class same girl wanted be bring prayer back into school. she gave statistics on after 63(?) court decision teen suicide went up (maybe Vietnam had a role in that i dont know) and other shit.
Well, I defended the taking prayer out of school because the prayer was the Lord's Prayer which is a christian prayer thus the state is endorsing a religion. And how Jews, Muslims and Atheists would find that offensive. She also brought up the whole Columbine thing.
Then there was the whole "christian nation" argument. ah well sorry for the rant

[CubanFox]

I wouldn't be offended if people in my school began to pray to Allah and so on.

Some people just need to accept other religions.

[chamo]

Punishing students for not taking the Pledge is actually unconstitutional. It would be unlawful for them to, so never take the Pledge thing you have to say in USA (which is quite shit).

Tell them, fight them, stand up.

[BorgHunter]

There was a recent lawsuit down here in Florida which was basically Non-Pledge-Sayer v. School Board, and guess who won? Non-Pledge-Sayer. You can refuse to say the Pledge if you wish, though some idiots want to force the kid to say it "in the child's interest, because saying the Pledge builds character" or some BS like that.

[Donut Master]

Actually, there's an interesting story...

My friend Austin, who lives in Maine and goes to highschool (I used to live there as well) was in class one day, and the students were standing up to cite the pledge. Austin stood up as well, but turned his back to the flag and did not speak. He was against the war on Iraq and wasn't feeling very "patriotic" at the time.

So, some jackass student says, and I quote: "Hey, if you don't want to be free, get out of here you fucking faggot nigger lover!" Austin responds with something along the lines of "I find it ironic that you order me like that, yet you claim to salute freedom".

The teacher then intervenes, but only to further harass Austin. She says that if he does not say the pledge, she'll kick him out of class. Naturally, he walks out of class. The other student who made the offensive comments recieved no punishment, in fact, the teacher was basically on his side. Funny how the racist kid was favored over the noble kid... what a country.

So, just because it's illegal to force you to say the pledge, doesn't mean it won't continue to happen.

[Dirty Commie]

I have not pledged since fourth grade, when I first became aware of the corruption of amerikkka. I have been in private muddle scholl since sixth grade and fortunatly had a liberal teacher.
Next year, when I go to high school in the worst school district in the state (pinellas counties) I will never pledge, even better, I am starting a school communist party.

[truthaddict11]

I hate Pinellas schools glad i am leaving it this year i hope you enjoy segregated schools again

[Sandanista]

I kinda had the same experience.

In scotland there are catholic state schools, and if we didnt say our prayers we got a lot of shit.

lets just say i was in deep doo-doo!

P.S I had no choice in the matter of goin to catholic school, i was baptised, i do not, however condone religion in any shape or form.

[Umoja]

And it's not even a Christian Nation. The founding Fathers were mostly extremely loose Christians and Deists.

[Organic Revolution]

i got sent to the office for not pledging allegence

[Hampton]

Is this (http://www.tampatrib.com/MGANIZYQ4FD.html) the same Pinellas?

[truthaddict11]

yes hampton it is
bullshit about that face reconition stuff we already have it at our airport.
Big Brother is watching

[Umoja]

They had a joke about that on SNL. It was talking about how American Airlines would adopt racial profiling instead of weird baggage searches. That was pretty funny.

[Donut Master]

I know a Syrian guy who was stopped by airport security once. They said it was just a random check, but when they led him into a waiting room, it was completely full of middle-eastern people. Random indeed...

[Sensitive]

Ironically, at the private religious school I went to (in the US) we never had to say the Pledge.

But if I would have gone to a public school those fuckers never could have forced me to say that religionist nationalistic slogan. I would have said, "Fuck you fascist filth, I hope you all die slowly and painfully!"

[Tkinter1]

Why do you think that is DM?

[RedComrade]

I do have some level of respect for keynesian capitalists in the like but damn! I noticed your qoute TKinter, your a classical laissez-faire capitalist!?!?? I hope your just in a phase that is truly one fucking stupid line of economic theorem. Oh sorry to get off subject

[commie kg]

When not saying the pledge, I have only encountered social rejection from my peers, and a general predjudice towards me from the teachers.

However, my school is run by an elite group of hardline, older right-wingers. They have forcibly tried to convert leftist students. I started a whole thread on it once.

[Tkinter1]

Red,

I wouldn't expect you to agree with that quote, nor do I care what you think of it. Why do you comment on these things?

[Dirty Commie]

[Is this the same Pinellas? ]-Hampton

Yeah, and it is worse, racial profiling here is rampant, the cops find every illegal way to shut down protesters, the teaching system is among the WORST in the country.

[Donut Master]

Sensetive said:
But if I would have gone to a public school those fuckers never could have forced me to say that religionist nationalistic slogan. I would have said, "Fuck you fascist filth, I hope you all die slowly and painfully!"

How... pleasant. :o

Tkinter1 said:
Why do you think that is DM?

It starts with an "R" and ends with "acial profiling"

[Donut Master]

Frankly, I see it as quite fascist to force students to speak the pledge, but I'd like to know what a capitalist/right-winger thinks. I know many Republicans who would be in favor of such action, however, I would imagine a "liberatarian capitalist" would be opposed. Am I correct?

So, capitalists and right-wingers alike, I want to know your opinon. Is "forced pledging" necessary to inspire loyalty to the government in youth, or does it go against everything the flag is supposed to stand for?

[Tkinter1]

"It starts with an "R" and ends with "acial profiling"

Why though? Do you honestly think it has no basis? It's just pure racism?

[Tkinter1]

"So, capitalists and right-wingers alike, I want to know your opinon. Is "forced pledging" necessary to inspire loyalty to the government in youth, or does it go against everything the flag is supposed to stand for?"

No. No one should be forced to pledge.

But as soon as they are able to choose where they want to live, they should leave this country they loath so much. Living in a country that you dislike and disrespect when you have the choice to leave is hypocracy at its highest.


(Edited by Tkinter1 at 4:22 pm on May 7, 2003)

[CubanFox]

If I were ever forced to say a pledge I'd fucking pack my bags and move to fucking New Caledonia or New Zealand.

[MarxIsGod]

When we Pledge Allegiance every morning in school, I simply stand out of what waning respect I have for the U.S. which mostly comes from the intelligent Leftists I meet on this site and in school. When I'm standing watching everyone follow along like robots the same way people did in Orwell's 1984 (which happens to be an incredible book for those who have not read it), I wonder how many of them have read the PATRIOT Act and understand it, or even more importantly, do they even care?! These people watch the world pass by as if they are somehow immune to what is going on in the rest of the world and that it will never affect them. Too many are concerned with the latest music video on MTV or BET than they are with how many innocent Iraqi civilians are being killed or how many people have been arrested without a warrant under the USA PATRIOT Act. There is so much apathy it makes me sick. For my AP US History class, we have a message board where we can post stuff about current events. I have posted 2 things from che-lives: the "resume of George Bush" and Jason Halperin's story which was posted on "Welcome to the U$ occupation" (both under Politics) and have gotten no responses back on either one. Instead, there have been over 10 messages about some teacher who is not being rehired next year and how people are trying to start a petition to get him hired or let the administration how much they care that he is leaving. While this is most certainly a worthy cause, the lack of response or care for any issue concerning current events domestically or internationally is sickening and it is this apathy that allows regimes to become oppressive and totalitarian because nobody did anything to stop them along the way. And yet many of these people also participated in a walk-out in protest of the war a month or two ago. Do they think that because all the fighting is over that it has been a lost cause?

[Umoja]

Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. Only a few people actually care enough to rule, and only a few people actually care about who rules. I assume this is why people can tolerate most forms of governments that us people living under Democratic-Republics couldn't imagine.

[rAW DEaL bILL]

the first time i satyed seated at school during the pledge my homeroom teacher told me if i didnt stand up he'd write me up and send me to in school suspension. i said ok fine. he left the room, i stood up, and turned my back. i did that for about a month cuz he wasnt my homeroom teacher all the time and when he came back he immediatly kciked my chair, called me a commie scum and sentenced me to 2 weeks of ISS. i went to the principle woth court cases proving i could sue his ass off and never had another problem :-D

[Organic Revolution]

damn this an old thread

[Marxist Theory]

Marxisgod is absolutely correct, i havent sat in a US classroom for two years but memories of kids thinking that the pledge of allegiance is just something they had to do. Some did not agree with the governments desicions but took no stand. They pledged allegiance cuz they were told to, refusal led me to suspension, also discrimination from teachers when being graded, i fuckin argued one of ma exams from a C to an A-.

[dopediana]

i have sooooooooooo much fun saying the pledge. some days i'll say it in spanish, other days in french. i'll hiccup in the place of some words. in the name of *hic* and justice for all. or very bad words. i had art in the mornings on odd days and i managed to get a few friends to say it like that along with me. once though, i turned my back on the flag and started saying the pledge in french because i was a bit disoriented in chemistry class. the republicans gave me sooo much flack, but it was sweet.

in other words. don't just say the pledge if you have to. take it to a whole new level.

[redstar2000]

I pledge resistance to the United States of America, and to the empire for which it stands, one oligarcy, under capital, divisible, with liberty and justice for none.

:cool:

[dopediana]

I pledge allegiance to and wrap myself in the flag of the United States Against Anything Un-American and to the Republicans for which it stands, two nations, under Jesus, rich against poor, with curtailed liberty and justice for all except blacks, homosexuals, women who want abortions, Communists, welfare queens, treehuggers, feminazis, illegal immigrants, children of illegal immigrants, and you if you don't watch your step.

By Matt Groening

[CienfuegosJnr]

BLEEEEH, BLEEEEEH
AAAH, AAAAAAAHHHHH
I'M FROM LEBNON MUATE
That was our alegion...
Fuck US .....
Go Marxist high schools,,
Viva Mexico city high schools ..
Go mixed schoolsaussie?
Never had to pledge to eithr? or any
schools

[Moskitto]

We have no pledge of alliegence, however I never, ever, ever sing the national anthem.

[Sensitive]

"one nation, under... FUCK ALL OF YOU! HAIL SATAN! HAIL SATAN!"